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Silverdawn77

Aegina or Enid?

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im currently using both, but i wanted to know other peoples opinion on who they thought was the better unit? on my next playthrough i want to use percival, so im going to cut one of them from my perma team.(i generally want to use units i didnt in my first playthrough, like Ouro, who i dumped for using faye/faramir)

My thoughts so far

Aegina

  • you get her first near the beginning of the game
  • immediately useful as your first magic damage dealer
  • once her wind skill goes up enough her multi-hits are extremely useful 
  • has pretty good speed, so shes a decent dodger.
  • but she is very frail, 2 hits will usually do her in
  • she has accuracy issues at first with wind magic, so its sometimes better for her to use fire magic at first to secure kills

Enid

  • starts with the lady sword, making her pretty accurate and lands a lot of crits
  • starts with elite, making leveling her up pretty easy
  • actually has a defence stat and a (admittedly low) growth in said stat. making her the tankiest mage.
  • when she does promote she will have 7 magic, this along with her slightly higher growth in magic than aegina will mean she will probably have more magic than her.
  • specializes in fire and thunder magic, meaning she has more options for attacking at range 2, rather than at range 1 keeping her out of danger.
  • fire magic and especially her personal tome, deals the most damage.
  • being able to use swords as well as magic gives her versatility
  • on the other hand she must promote to use magic
  • joins right before the middle of the game, at a low level, making leveling her up a little difficult.

 

does anyone eles have any opinions on these 2?

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This is probably really late as a reply to your question but should be informative to whoever bothers to read this.

Aegina

In the earlygame, Aegina's offense is quite bad. The best thing she does is mediocre 15 damage 80 hit Fire chip locked to 0-1 range, or 1-2 ranged damage with Pallas Riana with 6x4 Atk, which is better range and damage than Fire but still doesn't oneround and has mediocre hit rates hovering in the 60s w/o additional boosts. At this point in the game, she is marred by both low damage output and low accuracy, with only Focus Chant (+30 Hit, +10~30% damage) usable every 7 turns or food bonuses from the Kingfisher Pavilion to fix these issues. There isn't really much of a need for magical damage either at this point of the game, so there isn't really a point in fielding her apart from self-improvement and maybe chip damage vs. Laurus in Ch. 4.

Things get a bit better for her with time though, as Aegina gains access to accessories that boost her damage output and reliability:

 - Ch. 4 Main: Almuth hands out a free Eagle Brace (+5 Hit) if you visit the Library before starting the main mission

 - Ch. 4-2: Boltz has a Tiger Brace (+10 Hit) that one may obtain via Capture

 - Ch. 5: The brace shop on the map has a Spirit Brace (+1 Mag), Blessed Brace (+2 Mag) for damage output, and another Eagle Brace which means less competition for hit boosts.

 - Ch. 8: An enemy Raze Priest reinforcement drops a Divine Brace (+3 Mag) buffing her damage output even further

Since Pallas Riana hits 4 times, every boost to Magic equals +4 damage. By the time she gets the Divine Brace, she can reach 36 damage with base stats if she hits all 4 times with the Pallas Riana. With Focus Chant she is doing ~40 damage with near perfect accuracy at 2-range. If one manages to get a lucky Mag level with her 15% growth that's +4 damage for each proc, though getting one isn't quite reliable without a ton of EXP investment. But Pallas Riana still has a low base accuracy of 60, which means even with continued use contributing to her Wind skill she isn't going to be accurate with it w/o a Commander aura, Focus Chant or food. So while her overall damage output and accuracy potential has increased, she is still a unit that is rather limited in ease-of-use, as she is often faced having to choose between damage potential or accuracy when she's not using Focus Chant. It should also be noted that she doesn't really do much with orbs other than the Pallas Riana, since they suffer from having mediocre damage output and limited 2-range prowess.

Fortunately for her, there is more going for her than just braces alone. The midgame is where Magic damage start becoming notably useful.

 - In most main missions from Ch. 6 onwards, there are enemies with bulky shields that physical units have trouble scratching but have like no Magic (=Resistance).

 - 2-range magic is useful vs. crossbow enemies for disabling Ready Shot. All she needs to do is to hit at least 1 out of 4 hits at 2 range with the Pallas Riana, which she actually has good odds of doing even w/o accuracy boosts.

 - Wyverns have negative elemental resistance, some of which are weak to Wind. Aegina can potentially oneround them with Pallas Riana or at least do hefty chip, something that other units struggle to do.

All in all, Aegina is a low-investment unit with decent returns with the right setup, most notable for her 2-range damage potential with her personal Pallas Riana orb. She often faces the dilemma of having to choose between big damage output and good hit rates, but can still be useful despite this due to the rarity of good 2-range magical options and the nuances of the x4 hit property of her personal orb. With Focus Chant setup every 7 turns, she actually has a decent shot at nuking priority targets reliably. Without it (i.e. most of the time), she can still be decent 2-range chip if one lowers one's expectations to hitting like 1~2 out of 4 times, which still has its uses. It's not like she's a unit that improves considerably with investment either - she needs an inordinate amount of investment to promote (one of the hardest in the game), and despite the potential benefits of the magic boost it doesn't end up being useful since more lategame enemies actually have some Magic, limiting her yield after investment.

Enid

Enid is a very different unit from Aegina. Prior to promotion, she has some of the worst physical combat prowess out of the playable roster, with worse combat parameters (offense, bulk and sword skill) than base Faye but without a prf sword or any skills to aid her offense. She is only saved by how from her join there are 80 base hit Lady Swords available with which she can pull off pretty decent hit rates, allowing her to gain EXP without forsaking too much reliability. She needs to reach 5 Magic in order to promote: With base 2 Magic and 20% growth, this is no trivial task, requiring 15 levels on average. This is why in playthroughs that involve promoting Enid, she basically call dibs on the craftable MAG Potion, which at least eases the burden from 15 to 10 levels on average. The situation is a bit better if one is willing to rig Magic procs for her - the earliest she can reach 5 Mag is at Lv. 11 (Lv. 6 with the Magic Potion) due to her tight bracketing - but I don't think it's fair to assume the player would be doing this. Overall, assuming with a MAG Potion investment, the earliest she's realistically going to reach these 10 levels is somewhere in Chapter 8, and so the earliest she realistically promotes w/o Magic rigging is right before the Chapter 9 main mission - this means she misses being useful in Chapter 6-8 where magic damage still has some uses, and potentially more depending on when she promotes. That said, even with all this work, she's probably easier to promote than Aegina.

Enid post-promotion is something else entirely though. Promotion unlocks her personal orb, the Pallas Leia which boasts 32 might, and promoted Enid has 7 base Magic, for a whooping total of 39 magical Atk. The Pallas Riana also has 90 base hit, which means she's actually quite accurate with it. With some help from Magic increasing braces, she can oneshot Armor Knights, Lance Knights, Sergeants, or even Generals - enemy types which becomes relevant pretty much by the time she promotes. These are enemies that Aegina (or Perceval) dents but likely does not oneround, so Enid is much more reliable and easy-to-use against these enemy types. She is also the best bet against Ice Wyrms and Thor with it.10 uses doesn't seem like much until you realize that it restores 2 uses per chapter, so in reality the player is likely to have more like double that amount to use.

She does however lack a good 2-range option. She is inaccurate with Thunder, Brenthunder and Earthblaze if unaided by Focus Chant. The only 2-range option with both decent damage output and accuracy is Focus Chant + Brenthunder with a +Mag brace, but the damage output isn't as good as the Focus Chant + Pallas Riana with a +Mag brace, and is ultimately more situational. Brenthunder is an additive weapon not a multiplicative weapon, so her odds of hitting at least once for Ready Shot cancelling w/o Focus Chant is considerably worse as well, and the odds are even worse with Thunder or Earthblaze. Besides Brenthunder and Earthblaze aren't exactly widely available since they are locked to a forge (apart from the one Brenthunder orb Perceval comes with) 2-range isn't really Enid's strong suit, she best sticks to 0-1 range nuking with Pallas Leia.

Concluding Remarks

At the end of the day, both of their strengths lie primarily in their personal orbs. Aegina's strength is free 2-range with the Pallas Riana providing useful ranged chip at various parts of the run, and therefore serves as good low-investment midgame filler deployment spamming her personal orb in select useful scenarios that doesn't require much apart from certain damage/hit rate boosting setups like braces or skill setups. Post-promotion Enid is the most reliable out of all your magic options as a oneshot nuke against bulky physical enemies and bosses with the Pallas Leia, and ends up transitioning better to lategame, but at the high investment cost of needing to promote to access her magical prowess to begin with. As such, Aegina and Enid ends up having different modes of utility which shines at different points of the game. In this sense, my personal preference is to Use Aegina, Train Enid.

Edited by Aggro Incarnate

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7 hours ago, Aggro Incarnate said:

Concluding Remarks

At the end of the day, both of their strengths lie primarily in their personal orbs. Aegina's strength is free 2-range with the Pallas Riana providing useful ranged chip at various parts of the run, and therefore serves as good low-investment midgame filler deployment spamming her personal orb in select useful scenarios that doesn't require much apart from certain damage/hit rate boosting setups like braces or skill setups. Post-promotion Enid is the most reliable out of all your magic options as a oneshot nuke against bulky physical enemies and bosses with the Pallas Leia, and ends up transitioning better to lategame, but at the high investment cost of needing to promote to access her magical prowess to begin with. As such, Aegina and Enid ends up having different modes of utility which shines at different points of the game. In this sense, my personal preference is to Use Aegina, Train Enid.

I find this entire thing fascinating! Thank you for posting it! I don't really ever hear anyone speak of the Sagas, so this was very fun to read. I eventually want to play BS, but I think I'll wait until the translation is finished. 

Nonetheless, it doesn't have to be as detailed or anything, but could I ask where Perceval fits into this? Already I'm only going to be playing semi-blind, and it'll be so long in the future I, despite a good memory, will probably forget some of it.

I heard Perceval once mentioned offhand as being a rather weak unit, perhaps because the personal Thunder orb belongs to the game's Gotoh. And as you obviously have a real grasp of BS, could you confirm/deny this with some explanation? Although on paper, with the deflated stats, removal of doubling, and reduced counterattacking, I would think BS is more balanced than regular FE (outside of like Derrick), since you can't ORKO sections of maps in a single turn.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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I find it a bit silly to use a unit that joins in Endgame as an argument against Perceval who joins a bit before the half-way point.

With that aside, Perceval is on a similar boat to Aegina in terms of accuracy but doesn't have Focus Chant. This is unfortunate for him but I do think he has modes of uses.

Perceval's fairly high Magic base of 6 means Perceval with the Brenthunder and a +Mag brace does similar amounts of damage to an Aegina with Pallas Riana and a +Mag brace - at base they tie in maximum damage output with the Blessed Brace (+2 Mag) since (6 Mag + 2 bonus + 6 Mt) x 2 = (3 Mag + 2 bonus + 3 Mt) x 4 = 32 total magical Atk. 

Now, Perceval has a slight base accuracy lead over Aegina (Aegina has a 3 chapter availability lead for Wind skill grinding but she doesn't really do anything with it other than self-improvement), and Brenthunder is a + weapon unlike Pallas Riana being a x4 weapon. So in a situation where one needs to deal with a bulky target before Turn 7 (e.g. Low Turn Count runs or just playthroughs sensitive to pace in general), Perceval is more reliable at getting the job done - after all, hitting 2 times is way more likely than hitting 4 times at similar accuracy levels. He can pull off~50% CoS prior to accuracy modifications - which is not very good, but Aegina hitting all 4 times at base with the Pallas Riana w/o Focus Chant has ~25% CoS. Odds are fairly higher if he gets accuracy boosts in the form of Reese's Commander or Food or so on which is good for him. So overall outside of turns where Focus Chant is available, Percy has a better shot at doing the max amount of damage whenever you need to. That said Aegina is much more reliable when you can time your hits for Focus Chant, or alternatively in situations where you only need 1 hit to connect (Ready Shot cancelling or just small chip): Base Aegina with Pallas Riana has ~98% chance of hitting at least once vs. most enemy types that aren't too dodgy, whereas it's only ~90% for base Perceval with Brenthunder.

Minus Focus Chant his utility is fairly similar to Aegina's. Handling midgame bulky enemies and Wyverns with negative Thunder resistance are his best best uses. Some chapters can benefit from fielding 2 mages (Ch. 7 Main, Ch. 9 Main, Ch. 10 Main, Ch. 10-1, etc.) so he can find good uses especially in the absence of promoted Enid, or if using Aegina isn't rly your thing. He can also try some niche capture setups since he has access to both Wind and Thunder magic, so he can use Blizzard for Injury and Lightning for Cripple in conjunction with Mercy, but those are rather situational opportunist mode of use. So overall I think his most practical use is as a midgame magic dealer with low investment like Aegina, slinging Brenthunder vs. select targets.

As for minor things:

 - Perceval can't proc Adept before a Speed proc, +Spd brace (which are not worth buying imo) or promotion

 - Arrowbane gives him slight flexibility when put in range of enemy bowman which has some situational uses, but he gets oneshot by Ballistae so he probably shouldn't be banking on Arrowbane for the latter case. He doesn't have very good accuracy vs. bowmen though since bows have very light weight so bow users tend to have some avoid.

 - Getting Perceval to promotion is hard but at least it's easier than Aegina for what it's worth, his Thunder skill grows faster than Aegina does with Wind. This also has to do with the intricacies of how weapon exp procs work with + weapons and x weapons, but simply put, the gist is Perceval's promo requirements takes less orb slinging, though it still takes quite a bit. A 30+ Thunder skill Perceval with promo bonuses can actually be more flexible in reaching 1RKO targets with decent accuracy, but this is mostly for ppl that really like using and training him... since he needs to spam Thunder at every opportunity and try to get as many thunder orbs as those as possible and conserve Brenthunder.

 - A rigged Perceval is actually ridiculous with damage output due to his loose bracketing but that's more of a meme thing. With accuracy boost stacking he can actually even use Windstorm to decent effect (he can actually kill Black Knights with it lul) but ultimately it doesn't mean too much.

Edited by Aggro Incarnate

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On 1/28/2019 at 6:43 AM, Aggro Incarnate said:

 

At the end of the day, both of their strengths lie primarily in their personal orbs. Aegina's strength is free 2-range with the Pallas Riana providing useful ranged chip at various parts of the run, and therefore serves as good low-investment midgame filler deployment spamming her personal orb in select useful scenarios that doesn't require much apart from certain damage/hit rate boosting setups like braces or skill setups. Post-promotion Enid is the most reliable out of all your magic options as a oneshot nuke against bulky physical enemies and bosses with the Pallas Leia, and ends up transitioning better to lategame, but at the high investment cost of needing to promote to access her magical prowess to begin with. As such, Aegina and Enid ends up having different modes of utility which shines at different points of the game. In this sense, my personal preference is to Use Aegina, Train Enid.

Wow, thank you so much for answering, this is actually really helpful. im not sure if its what you meant but im kinda getting that Percival isnt worth taking either aegina or enid out of my roster.

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