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Some Jerk

$75 USD New Year's Bundles

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There are a quite a few issues:

1. Price point: 75 USD for a single bundle is prohibitively high for the vast majority of players - it's even alienating to a lot of low spenders or even dolphins. It's even prohibitively high by gacha standards, even if the bundle is good considering the cost of the normal orb packages.

2. The time limit: while it makes sense that the time limit would be the same as that of the New Year's 2019 banner, it just broadcasts the implication that IS is under Desperation 3 mode for generating a short-term profit.

3. It's advertised to be part of the New Year's celebration. However, due to its price point, IS basically told the majority of the playerbase that the celebration isn't for them and is only for a small portion of the playerbase. It's also insulting as the Japanese tend to see New Year's as a bigger holiday than Christmas is.

4. Where is that money going to go? Despite FEH being the cash cow among freemium games Nintendo has, the quality of the game isn't necessarily going up thanks to those profits.

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Honestly, i swiched to dragalia as my main game a while back, and have not spent a cent on feh since. I hear Cygames has a good record with not getting abusive, and they are certainly super comunicative and much more willing to give out free stuff (we got a 5* summon voucher as a Christmas present for crying out loud). I would compare  pricing with the equivalent new year's bundles, but although they announced the content of bundles, pricing will not be revieled untill the bundles drop tonight.

THat being said, the one issue that I have with DL is the fact that the a LOT of aspects of the progression can be payed to be accelerated (in fact very few things can NOT be accelerated in some way.) that being said, FEH seems intent on mimicking this with its various bundles, and DL has zero pvp (only co-op), so someone getting an advantage does not mean very much to you, except that they indirectly give you an advantage through co-op and helper abilities. It helps that DL has a good story (nothing transcendental or anything, but i legitimately want to see what happens to these characters).

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I think I'll be getting the Fire pack. Those grails and feathers will give me one more Arvis merge and then I can try for Gunnthra. Maybe the Ice if I fail to pull two copies (or just one good copy) of Gunnthra with the Fire pack's orbs, but I'd rather not support an unfair advantage in Aether Raids.

I know I'll be sitting out Laguz, and I'm betting against the Legendary (or Mythic) being Jugdral. I think I can keep a budget now that I don't need to pull everyone.

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When I saw that there would be packs with the new Fjorm and Laevatein, I was excited. Then I noticed the orb count and price and my hype went from 9 to 1.

I really don't know what they're thinking with this. It's clear they decided the price they wanted to sell it for before deciding how many orbs, so it's not like they just priced it according to how many orbs were in it. But whales would buy anyway and this isn't going to grab many lesser spenders.

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The Laevatain bundle is so tempting for the Grails, but the price is too high. I wish IS had different versions of the bundle, like a 20, 40, 60, etc. orb bundle. That way you can choose how much you want to spend and still get the bundle rewards.

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Eh.  Looks like an experiment.  I have no intention of buying a bundle, ever (even if my beloved Leon was an amazing alt), but I'm curious to see how well this will go over.  I think the high price is like that because of the guaranteed new unit.  I feel it would be a huge profit loss if the gacha circumvention was too cheap (it's a free merge, at worst).

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At best, this is a totally wrong-headed experiment. At worst, FUCK THIS SHIT, IS.

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17 minutes ago, Florete said:

When I saw that there would be packs with the new Fjorm and Laevatein, I was excited. Then I noticed the orb count and price and my hype went from 9 to 1.

I really don't know what they're thinking with this. It's clear they decided the price they wanted to sell it for before deciding how many orbs, so it's not like they just priced it according to how many orbs were in it. But whales would buy anyway and this isn't going to grab many lesser spenders.

Yeah. Honestly, i'm a little confused as to who these packs are even for. are they for f2p or minimal spenders? not a chance. Are they for meduim spenders (dolphins). I doubt it, although some of them might be persueded. $75 is steep for medium spenders. Is it for whales? maybe, but i feel like they were going to buy the orbs anyway. People have aregued that it is a thank you for whaling present, but that seems like a horrible idea because it makes everyone else feel excluded (as opposed to just giving everyone fifty free orbs for a present), and whales now get to spend less because of the free unit.

 

4 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Eh.  Looks like an experiment.  I have no intention of buying a bundle, ever (even if my beloved Leon was an amazing alt), but I'm curious to see how well this will go over.  I think the high price is like that because of the guaranteed new unit.  I feel it would be a huge profit loss if the gacha circumvention was too cheap (it's a free merge, at worst).

I am a little confused by how this would work as an experiment. You would expect an a/b test if there were two bundles (which changes a variable to see what people like more), but they changed TWO variables between the two packs, which results in a situation where they can't be sure wheter the pack that sold better did so because of the unit, or the chioce between stones and grails. you could argue that the experiment is having a pack at all, but in that case, why have two packs? why not test one first, and then two later? the only reason that makes sense is if this is essentially the format they plan to use in the future, in which case, it's less of an experiment, and more of an introduction of the new standard (with the only test being "does this idea bomb or not")

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1 minute ago, sirmola said:

I am a little confused by how this would work as an experiment. You would expect an a/b test if there were two bundles (which changes a variable to see what people like more), but they changed TWO variables between the two packs, which results in a situation where they can't be sure wheter the pack that sold better did so because of the unit, or the chioce between stones and grails. you could argue that the experiment is having a pack at all, but in that case, why have two packs? why not test one first, and then two later? the only reason that makes sense is if this is essentially the format they plan to use in the future, in which case, it's less of an experiment, and more of an introduction of the new standard (with the only test being "does this idea bomb or not")

IIRC Laeg's a free unit.  I wonder if it's a way to see whether or not people are more interested in getting a unit out of the gacha + materials for a better Aether Keep (more for battlers), or for getting units out of the Heroic Grail store (more for collectors/people who use F2P units).

Or maybe it's another battle between Nifl and Muspell.

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well, I've gotten back into Shadowverse lately, I'd just rather buy some boosters

this to me is just a bad deal, I don't really see myself spending that much money at once for some random chances with no way of exchanging them for something else in the game

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12 minutes ago, eclipse said:

IIRC Laeg's a free unit.  I wonder if it's a way to see whether or not people are more interested in getting a unit out of the gacha + materials for a better Aether Keep (more for battlers), or for getting units out of the Heroic Grail store (more for collectors/people who use F2P units).

Or maybe it's another battle between Nifl and Muspell.

But that's exactly my point. The what it is currently set up, it's both. some people are going to pick based on the unit they want, and some are going to pick based on stones/grails. IS won't be able to easily tell which factor predominates. let's say the Ice princess banner sells twice as much. Does this mean that twice as many people want stones compared to grails, twice as many people want fjorm compaired to laevatein or (most likely) some combination of the two? My point is that it is impossible to tell which of these two choices predominates for most people (unless you make an assumption), so it is just not a very good experiment for seing what people like more.

Edited by sirmola

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1 minute ago, sirmola said:

But that's exactly my point. The what it is currently set up, it's both. some people are going to pick based on the unit they want, and some are going to pick based on stones/grails. IS won't be able to easily tell which factor predominates. let's say the Ice princess banner sells twice as much. Does this mean that twice as many people want stones compared to grails, twice as many people want fjorm compaired to laevatein or (most likely) some combination of the two? My point is that it is impossible to tell which of these two choices predominates for most people (unless you make an assumption), so it is just not a very good experiment.

We, the players, don't have the usage data on Aether Raids - that's on IS.  I doubt they'd do something just on a single character alone, because IMO that wouldn't be much of an experiment (I think CYL data would be better for that).  This isn't targeted at the people who spend little to no money on the game - this is for those who are willing to pay in order to get some advantage, whether it be in grails or stones.  It's a relatively small group, but I'd love to see the profit numbers at the end of the banner sale.  Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if some players buy both bundles.

(unless someone gives me a $75 gift card, then I'll gladly skew it)

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5 minutes ago, sirmola said:

But that's exactly my point. The what it is currently set up, it's both. some people are going to pick based on the unit they want, and some are going to pick based on stones/grails. IS won't be able to easily tell which factor predominates. let's say the Ice princess banner sells twice as much. Does this mean that twice as many people want stones compared to grails, twice as many people want fjorm compaired to laevatein or (most likely) some combination of the two? My point is that it is impossible to tell which of these two choices predominates for most people (unless you make an assumption), so it is just not a very good experiment for seing what people like more.

actually its easy to determin. I am sure IS can monitor what happens with th char afterwards and can deversify if the buyer is heavily invested in AR or Grail unit merging.

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Wow this really shows why the gacha games make such insane amounts of money compared to other models.  So the normal price is 75 bucks....well over the price of a AAA full game, to get 140 orbs which will get you 1-2 five stars depending on type of banner on average.  So again 1 to 2 five star characters (maybe not even the one you wanted) in a mobile game, 75 bucks.  

So one could buy Fire Emblem Three Houses and go see a new movie in the cinema, or they could gamble with 140 orbs to get on average 1-2 five star characters in Heroes.  Yet enough people must be whaling on this and other gacha for them to pull the ludicrous profits they do annually.   It is hard for me to understand.

 

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34 minutes ago, Hilda said:

actually its easy to determin. I am sure IS can monitor what happens with th char afterwards and can deversify if the buyer is heavily invested in AR or Grail unit merging.

Good point. I didn't think of that.

 

10 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Wow this really shows why the gacha games make such insane amounts of money compared to other models.  So the normal price is 75 bucks....well over the price of a AAA full game, to get 140 orbs which will get you 1-2 five stars depending on type of banner on average.  So again 1 to 2 five star characters (maybe not even the one you wanted) in a mobile game, 75 bucks.  

So one could buy Fire Emblem Three Houses and go see a new movie in the cinema, or they could gamble with 140 orbs to get on average 1-2 five star characters in Heroes.  Yet enough people must be whaling on this and other gacha for them to pull the ludicrous profits they do annually.   It is hard for me to understand.

 

From what I understand, 75 bucks is NOT a normal price for a pack like this. for comparison, Dragalia Lost's limited 5* summon voucher pack is $25 (plus the equivalent of 40 orbs.) Granted, it is still a random nonseasional 5* character, and dupes can happen, but still...)

Edited by sirmola

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5 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

It is hard for me to understand.

Some of us love Fire Emblem way too much. I personally do not mind spending the money. Advance Wars died and broke my heart, but I am not going to let Fire Emblem go down the same path if I can help it.

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Honestly, despite me feeling that this doesn't affect me in any way, this was a painful sight to see. I still have faith that things will get better. As someone said earlier, this feels like experimentation. And IS really, really, really overshot. If no one buys these, IS should hopefully realize that they made a mistake. I hope no one, or at least very, very few people spend money on this. That way IS can get the message.

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8 minutes ago, sirmola said:

Good point. I didn't think of that.

 

From what I understand, 75 bucks is NOT a normal price for a pack like this. for comparison, Dragalia Lost's limited 5* summon voucher pack is $25 (plus the equivalent of 40 orbs.) Granted, it is still a random nonseasional 5* character, and dupes can happen, but still...)

Oh not for a special bundle like this, but 140 orb pack is regularly 75 bucks.  I agree that for this special bundle maybe 30 bucks or something a lot more people may have considered it.  

9 minutes ago, XRay said:

Some of us love Fire Emblem way too much. I personally do not mind spending the money. Advance Wars died and broke my heart, but I am not going to let Fire Emblem go down the same path if I can help it.

Ooh....Advance Wars.  I loved that series, and I thought all the games sold well.  The last one, days of ruin took it into a darker direction but I thought it still made a good profit.  I don't think Fire Emblem will go down that path regardless of Heroes cause the recent main games have sold a lot.  Though maybe more profits made from Heroes can be used to fuel more ambitious visions for the main games. 

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2 minutes ago, XRay said:

Some of us love Fire Emblem way too much. I personally do not mind spending the money. Advance Wars died and broke my heart, but I am not going to let Fire Emblem go down the same path if I can help it.

I never got this logic. Although spending money on FEH gives this impression across, it can also say things like "FE players are fine with gatchas. it's okay if we stick some into three houses or other future $60 games" I spent money on this game BECAUSE I LIKE THIS GAME. And at a certain point it started feeling abusive, and I  spent more than I had meant to. I no longer spend money on this game any more. (and if i start feeling "used" by dragalia lost, I will have to drop that one too, despite loving the core mechanics.) i still play feh, but not that heavily (i do most of the time limited stuff, but i have even not done blessed gardens for the last few months..

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1 minute ago, sirmola said:

I never got this logic. Although spending money on FEH gives this impression across, it can also say things like "FE players are fine with gatchas. it's okay if we stick some into three houses or other future $60 games" I spent money on this game BECAUSE I LIKE THIS GAME. And at a certain point it started feeling abusive, and I  spent more than I had meant to. I no longer spend money on this game any more. (and if i start feeling "used" by dragalia lost, I will have to drop that one too, despite loving the core mechanics.) i still play feh, but not that heavily (i do most of the time limited stuff, but i have even not done blessed gardens for the last few months..

Well, if that happens to a main game, then I will probably just skip that game and wait for the next main game. I am not well endowed like Camilla and Loki to for them to keep milking me like that!

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9 minutes ago, XRay said:

Well, if that happens to a main game, then I will probably just skip that game and wait for the next main game. I am not well endowed like Camilla and Loki to for them to keep milking me like that!

granted, i doubt it will, because nintendo is probably very well aware that what flies in a mobile game does not fly in a "core" console game, but but that hasn't stoped EA et al from trying to normalize it.

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Either they recently lost a lot of whales and are trying to get them back / make them pay for a seemingly good deal before they go.... or they just got too greedy. I wonder about the young people. Spending that much might be hard for them without saving up. Maybe IS assumes everyone wished for app store cards for Christmas.

I'll not buy the packs since I feel that they are not interested in keeping women as their customers. But if I wanted to buy one, I'd have bought the orbs anyway, as some people pointed out.

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What I mot dislike about these is the fear that these will replace the previous monthly packs. I didn't mind those. They were basically an auto buy, I just kind of viewed it as paying a subscription like back in my mmorpg days. Those packs weren't badly priced for a monthly subscription pack(though did offer 'smallish' benefits in comparison to some subscription type packs I recall seeing), but I think you would have a hard time selling folks on a 75 dollar monthly subscription without the rewards being out of this world. So I am really hoping this is just them attempting to milk folks with end of year bonuses/monetary gifts from family.

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11 hours ago, sirmola said:

Honestly, i swiched to dragalia as my main game a while back, and have not spent a cent on feh since. I hear Cygames has a good record with not getting abusive, and they are certainly super comunicative and much more willing to give out free stuff (we got a 5* summon voucher as a Christmas present for crying out loud). I would compare  pricing with the equivalent new year's bundles, but although they announced the content of bundles, pricing will not be revieled untill the bundles drop tonight.

THat being said, the one issue that I have with DL is the fact that the a LOT of aspects of the progression can be payed to be accelerated (in fact very few things can NOT be accelerated in some way.) that being said, FEH seems intent on mimicking this with its various bundles, and DL has zero pvp (only co-op), so someone getting an advantage does not mean very much to you, except that they indirectly give you an advantage through co-op and helper abilities. It helps that DL has a good story (nothing transcendental or anything, but i legitimately want to see what happens to these characters).

Dragalia Lost is getting my attention too. It's a fun game to play, and DL knows how to develop it characters. The Adventurers Stories are great, the gameplay is fun, and I really like the Co-op aspect of the game. And DL was quite generous about the 5★ Summon Voucher and they usually give us Tenfold Summon Voucher quite often.

I also likes how they introduce new characters in it's Showcases (banners), where we have a 5★Character and two 4★Characters (or one 4★ and one 3★), and this even is applied to the seasonal showcases.

I agree with you about the fact of progression can be paid to be accelerated, but I don't mind it because I like to progress on my own pace. The only thing that bothers me about Dragalia is that it's not available on my country, so I need to download the game APK in every single version update.

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9 hours ago, sirmola said:

From what I understand, 75 bucks is NOT a normal price for a pack like this. for comparison, Dragalia Lost's limited 5* summon voucher pack is $25 (plus the equivalent of 40 orbs.) Granted, it is still a random nonseasional 5* character, and dupes can happen, but still...)

If it's a random 5*, it's not a pack like this.

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