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NopeGuy

Choosing next game to play.

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Hello guys, I just finished path of radiance and I'm really torn up to what to play next.
Sacred stones(or other gba FE), Shadow Dragon (with gaiden chapters patched), holy war or Shadows of Valentia?

P.S. Besides P.O.R. I've only played awakening, fates and half of every gba title (a long time ago).


 

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If you just finished POR, I'd say play Radiant Dawn next.

If that isn't an option, then I'd say Genealogy, with the appropriate guides of course. The one on WOD is good enough, although most of it's in Spanish and Google Translate isn't the kindest to it, I never actually used the strategies in it, mainly just using the maps it provides since they have all the hidden locations and enemy spawn points listed, so it's nice and convenient. 

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Radiant Dawn for sure since its the sequel to Path of Radiance. its my personal favorite for so many reasons and makes/answers lots of other stuff that happened in PoR. Plus after you beat and do a new game on top of the Epilogue you can get the best ending possibly (Significantly better then the first playthrough)

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I mean, my personal recommendation would be Genealogy.  Not terribly great on the gameplay front (terribly unbalanced, mostly in your favor), but it has one of the best stories in the series.  Get the Project Naga patch for it - you'll need an original unaltered Japanese ROM for that, but it's the best, most accurate translation out there.

Given what you're used to with the library of games you've played, Sacred Stones would be the next best one to pick imo.  It has a number of features that you're used to from Fates, Awakening, and to some extent PoR, without the bad map designs and weird gimmicks from Shadows of Valentia.

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Radiant Dawn. But I will warn you, it is several magnitudes harder than Path of Radiance was. If that's not an option, then SoV. Genealogy is only if you can handle bloated maps (and the worst map design in the entire franchise, at that) and really, REALLY bad mechanics, else you WILL get very bored of it VERY quickly, I assure you.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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6 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

(and the worst map design in the entire franchise, at that)

Now hold the phone, Gaiden/SoV has the worst map design of the series. SoV masks it somewhat with the great presentation, but otherwise the map design in those two games is far worse than the sprawling maps of Genealogy. 

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1 minute ago, DarthR0xas said:

Now hold the phone, Gaiden/SoV has the worst map design of the series. SoV masks it somewhat with the great presentation, but otherwise the map design in those two games is far worse than the sprawling maps of Genealogy. 

I strongly disagree there. Literally every map in Genealogy falls victim to the same fundamental issues. That's a damn big red flag right there.

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57 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I strongly disagree there. Literally every map in Genealogy falls victim to the same fundamental issues. That's a damn big red flag right there.

I'll do a "small" comparison.

Gaiden/SoV:

  • Dull same-y maps for much of the run-time (oh look, another forest that looks the same as the other twelve with the same enemies, wee. Oh, and there is some ruins that have the same layout as the one before.)
  • Grinding, and boring grave maps
  • The swamps, and the desert being two main fixtures of multiple levels.
  • One of the worst maps in FE history with the map before Rudolf that has all the one tile hallways while being assaulted with magic and arrows.

Genealogy:

The prologue is a masterclass in design, with multiple objectives and many proper changes in game-state. You start with two things immediately catching your eye, that being the villages being destroyed in the top middle, and the big castle being seized in the bottom middle. An enemy is perfectly placed at the start, so you'll attack him and move somewhere middle-ish. Then, after an enemy phase where you see the mechanic of capturing castles shown to the player via the enemy doing so, you get Lex and Fire-boy. This means you now have two parties of units to keep track of, and you can focus on multiple objectives. So then on turn three you get some more units, that being Cuan, his wife, and best retainer. Now with more forces in the general area, you can either help Lex and Fire-boy, since there are some brigands who can do substantial damage to them, and save all of the villages up there at the cost of the village and a speed ring, or split your forces for a more risky venture, but with better rewards. And then once you capture the first castle, you get a change in gamestate, with the bridge lowering and there being quite a few reinforcements. However, this isn't an issue in this chapter, since you have plenty of time to get defensive positions and take out all the enemies, and then go on to a fairly challenging boss. This is one of my favorite Fire Emblem stages, and one of the best designed in the whole series.

I just wanted to gush about the prologue, most of the maps afterward aren't the best. Chapters 1, 5, and 7 all have parts that are very dull to get through (forests or desert), and chapters 2 and 3 sticking out as the worst design with the most BS castle seize reinforcement drives. Although all of Seliph's chapters are pretty good, bar part one in chapter 7. And even then you still have the Leonster trio during that time, which is a fun time due to the pressure that is being put on the player with all the reinforcements and also villages to save. It isn't the best designs, and they all are a tad too large for their own good, but that helps show off the scale of the world in this game. You feel how large scale the world is, and you can feel how long the trek is. It's a very noteworthy example of story shown through gameplay, along with Roy being trash showing how he isn't really a fighter, or some third thing I'll try to edit in later. Aside from being a tad bloated, only certain maps in FE4 have some fundamental issues in design with reinforcements and dumb terrain placement, and it certainly isn't a game-wide issue, or even in "Literally every map".

Edited by DarthR0xas

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1 hour ago, DarthR0xas said:

I'll do a small comparison.

Gaiden/SoV:

  • Dull same-y maps for much of the run-time (oh look, another forest that looks the same as the other twelve with the same enemies, wee. Oh, and there is some ruins that have the same layout as the one before.)
  • Grinding, and boring grave maps
  • The swamps, and the desert being two main fixtures of multiple levels.
  • One of the worst maps in FE history with the map before Rudolf that has all the one tile hallways while being assaulted with magic and arrows.

Genealogy:

The prologue is a masterclass in design, with multiple objectives and many proper changes in game-state. You start with two things immediately catching your eye, that being the villages being destroyed in the top middle, and the big castle being seized in the bottom middle. An enemy is perfectly placed at the start, so you'll attack him and move somewhere middle-ish. Then, after an enemy phase where you see the mechanic of capturing castles shown to the player via the enemy doing so, you get Lex and Fire-boy. This means you now have two parties of units to keep track of, and you can focus on multiple objectives. So then on turn three you get some more units, that being Cuan, his wife, and best retainer. Now with more forces in the general area, you can either help Lex and Fire-boy, since there are some brigands who can do substantial damage to them, and save all of the villages up there at the cost of the village and a speed ring, or split your forces for a more risky venture, but with better rewards. And then once you capture the first castle, you get a change in gamestate, with the bridge lowering and there being quite a few reinforcements. However, this isn't an issue in this chapter, since you have plenty of time to get defensive positions and take out all the enemies, and then go on to a fairly challenging boss. This is one of my favorite Fire Emblem stages, and one of the best designed in the whole series.

I just wanted to gush about the prologue, most of the maps afterward aren't the best. Chapters 1, 5, and 7 all have parts that are very dull to get through (forests or desert), and chapters 2 and 3 sticking out as the worst design with the most BS castle seize reinforcement drives. Although all of Seliph's chapters are pretty good, bar part one in chapter 7. And even then you still have the Leonster trio during that time, which is a fun time due to the pressure that is being put on the player with all the reinforcements and also villages to save. It isn't the best designs, and they all are a tad too large for their own good, but that helps show off the scale of the world in this game. You feel how large scale the world is, and you can feel how long the trek is. It's a very noteworthy example of story shown through gameplay, along with Roy being trash showing how he isn't really a fighter, or some third thing I'll try to edit in later. Aside from being a tad bloated, only certain maps in FE4 have some fundamental issues in design with reinforcements and dumb terrain placement, and it certainly isn't a game-wide issue, or even in "Literally every map".

The way I see it, I'm not spending aeons on SoV's maps, whereas in Genealogy, even when not turtling, I am largely because the enemy phases are the slowest thing ever (people tend to complain about how slow RD's enemy phases could be, but in that game it's not happening Every. Single. Turn.). Not to mention the over-reliance on mounted units - it's not that I dislike mounted units, but the degree to which Genealogy favours mounted units is stupidiculous. I will grant, being mounted has always been an advantage in FE, but Genealogy magnifies that advantage to the point where it's often called "Horse Emblem". Also, about the only maps in SoV I would really consider bad are the fort of archers, the swamp maps (of which at least one [the one with Jedah] could be cleared rather quickly), Nuibaba's abode and Grieth's citadel, and not a one of those even compares to crap like backtrack central or forest spam. Or the bloated nature of the maps in general, which alone is enough to pretty much kill any chance Genealogy has of being enjoyable. FYI, I would say the fact that bandits almost always start near or on villages is yet another facet of how poorly designed Genealogy is. And before you say it, no, the fact that villages take several turns before they're completely destroyed does NOT make up for this, nor does it even come close.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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55 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

The way I see it, I'm not spending aeons on SoV's maps, whereas in Genealogy, even when not turtling, I am largely because the enemy phases are the slowest thing ever (people tend to complain about how slow RD's enemy phases could be, but in that game it's not happening Every. Single. Turn.).

Sure, not SoV since it has a good pace, but Gaiden? That game is slower than Genealogy. Map design is a issue in both games, but it's way more noticeable in Gaiden where you can't even speed things up to a reasonable speed without an external button via an emulator or some other hack.

57 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Not to mention the over-reliance on mounted units - it's not that I dislike mounted units, but the degree to which Genealogy favours mounted units is stupidiculous. I will grant, being mounted has always been an advantage in FE, but Genealogy magnifies that advantage to the point where it's often called "Horse Emblem". 

Sure, but that isn't a mutually exclusive issue for FE4. Class balance has pretty much always been an issue in FE. FE2 could basically be an Alm solo for his side, the GBA FEs had the Paladin class at its highest point, even in Sacred Stones where they took away the axes. I'd call a large chunk of FE11/12 in favor of horses as well, although I haven't played enough of them to be sure. Are mounted units better in general for FE4? Absolutely but there is often an attempt at balance. For instance, Johan has lower stats compared to his non horse-fairing brother.

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, about the only maps in SoV I would really consider bad are the fort of archers, the swamp maps (of which at least one [the one with Jedah] could be cleared rather quickly), Nuibaba's abode and Grieth's citadel, and not a one of those even compares to crap like backtrack central or forest spam.

I would consider every single desert and swamp map to be awful, as well as the abode, any fort of archers, any map that has tombstones since those are just haphazardly placed about for the enemies to stand on and waste your time. Say what you will about FE4 enemies, at least they are hit-able without the use of magic.

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Or the bloated nature of the maps in general, which alone is enough to pretty much kill any chance Genealogy has of being enjoyable.

Not necessarily. Being a little too big for it's own good isn't always a bad thing. Gives you some time to think about the events going down in the great story. Where it will go, what twists and turns it'll take you on next. It builds anticipation from castle to castle, chapter to chapter, until you get completely blindsided by that event, and then the whole thing starts over. I only really consider it an issue in three or so maps, since many of them are fairly linearly designed. Plus the size can add stress. Like in chapter 4 with the NPCs that come out of the castle, and all of the sudden you're rushing to save them and it's tense and amazing.

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

FYI, I would say the fact that bandits almost always start near or on villages is yet another facet of how poorly designed Genealogy is. And before you say it, no, the fact that villages take several turns before they're completely destroyed does NOT make up for this, nor does it even come close.

 I can't recall of a situation where a brigand starts on a village, but I never remember where they exactly start so I'll take your word on the fact that they do. But I don't see how that's bad design, and the fact that villages taking several turns to be destroyed absolutely DOES make up for this, due to the fact that many villages hold more than money. The times that those bandits spawn on a village, often times those villages hold some ring or amazing weapon for the player. It requires risk, and gives the players reward. There is proper incentive to the villages, they function on a pseudo time limit, and give the player a reason to not turtle. This is no different to a regular village in any other FE game, except that due to how they function, bandits can be placed in closer, and safer, spaces to the village. Imagine the alternative to this, bandits spawn halfway across the map where they're easily killable. Heck, most villages in FE are easy to save, FE4 is one of the only games I have ever struggled to save all of the villages in, and it was super rewarding when I just barely saved a village, and it had one half house left, and then my reward is a nice ring. I fail to see how the villages, or the bandit positioning in relation to them, could be seen as a flaw or example of how poorly Genealogy is designed, and in fact I believe it is a perfect example of the inverse.

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@NopeGuy You'll really enjoy Radiant Dawn while PoR is fresh on your mind. I just recently restarted RD in hard mode after a break. I think it's my 16th or 17th playthrough and it's still great.

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Quote

ARGUING

Honestly, FE4 is a very polarising game. That being said, many games in this series inspire strongly divergent options. I for example, love both SOV and fe4, because i don't really mind the sloggy bits both games have. I also like SD more than most pepole seem to. on the other hand, i dislike RD, due to the horrible character ballance, and profushion of hidden items (I hope you like the desert map item mechanic, because half the maps in the game use it. ANd don't even get me started on getting a copy of bolting). That being said, it is the sequal, and I recomend trying it next for that reason. The plot does tie closely enough in that it is probably best to go in fresh. If you can't i'd recomend SD or FE4 because they both introduce a ton of lore that lots of games in the series reference. It's nothing essentual, but SOV in perticular includes several recuring characters from SD (and makes certain subtle references to fe4). SD is easier, and has almost no BS exept the gaiden chapters and prolog (both of which can be patched easily.) because fe4 makes refereces to fe1 (which SD is remake of), i would recomend RD, followed by SD.

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@NopeGuy Path of Radiance is fun. The other titles from Fire Emblem I really enjoyed are Genealogy and Binding Blade.

Genealogy because of the story, I love it and it makes up for all the other mistakes of this game.

Binding Blade because of the challenge, although I really enjoyed the story and some units were fun to use.

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6 hours ago, sirmola said:

Honestly, FE4 is a very polarising game.

And so is Echoes, tbf.

And where there's a polarizing game, you'll probably find some wild argument that nobody wants to read except for entertainment value.  'Cuz I sure don't find any of the arguments I've had online to be enlightening in any way, except when this allegedly 60 year old guy said I was being a presumptuous dick one time.

Really, in my personal opinion, it's hard to go wrong with any of these games, they're all good in their own ways.  But I've lately not been quite the cynical critic that I used to be.

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I recomend you do Radiant Dawn while PoR is fresh to you. I wanted to play it after i finished 9 for the first time but couldn't get to it. It's been a year and a half since then, i think, and i'm starting to think if i ever get RD i will have to replay PoR forst just to be sure.

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Thanks everyone! I'll try to get a wii since I'll be playing RD and I always prefered to play in the original console ahah

And probably going for echoes or geneology after.

 

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18 hours ago, DarthR0xas said:

Sure, but that isn't a mutually exclusive issue for FE4. Class balance has pretty much always been an issue in FE. FE2 could basically be an Alm solo for his side, the GBA FEs had the Paladin class at its highest point, even in Sacred Stones where they took away the axes. I'd call a large chunk of FE11/12 in favor of horses as well, although I haven't played enough of them to be sure. Are mounted units better in general for FE4? Absolutely but there is often an attempt at balance. For instance, Johan has lower stats compared to his non horse-fairing brother.

The problem is, what attempt at balance FE4 makes falls flat on its ass - using your example, Johan tends to have an easier time contributing compared to his brother, who is likely to miss out unless you continually slow down (and even then, he's likely to get swarmed and die unless you either killed most of the enemy forces beforehand or wall him off after he kills something. Johan doesn't have to deal with this, because he can retreat after attacking to minimize his enemy phase exposure). That being said, I do agree that class balance has always been an issue in FE in general, but it's far and away more pronounced in Genealogy thanks to the flagrant lack of balance between weapon types and unit types. Long story short, if you don't have a horse, holy weapon or Pursuit, you're automatically inferior to the units that do. 

18 hours ago, DarthR0xas said:

I would consider every single desert and swamp map to be awful, as well as the abode, any fort of archers, any map that has tombstones since those are just haphazardly placed about for the enemies to stand on and waste your time. Say what you will about FE4 enemies, at least they are hit-able without the use of magic.

I never really found the graveyards that bad since I rarely give the enemy the chance to step on the graves.

18 hours ago, DarthR0xas said:

Not necessarily. Being a little too big for it's own good isn't always a bad thing. Gives you some time to think about the events going down in the great story. Where it will go, what twists and turns it'll take you on next. It builds anticipation from castle to castle, chapter to chapter, until you get completely blindsided by that event, and then the whole thing starts over. I only really consider it an issue in three or so maps, since many of them are fairly linearly designed. Plus the size can add stress. Like in chapter 4 with the NPCs that come out of the castle, and all of the sudden you're rushing to save them and it's tense and amazing.

Except it is when the story moves at a snail's pace thanks to shit gameplay that drags down the story, as well as everything else with it. I say once more, for good measure, the gameplay of FE4 is so damn bad that everything else suffers. Including the story which you think is oh-so-amazing, because having the best story cannot - and does not - make up for being practically unplayable. In addition, the giant maps don't exactly mix with a game series with permanent death.

18 hours ago, DarthR0xas said:

 I can't recall of a situation where a brigand starts on a village, but I never remember where they exactly start so I'll take your word on the fact that they do. But I don't see how that's bad design, and the fact that villages taking several turns to be destroyed absolutely DOES make up for this, due to the fact that many villages hold more than money. The times that those bandits spawn on a village, often times those villages hold some ring or amazing weapon for the player. It requires risk, and gives the players reward. There is proper incentive to the villages, they function on a pseudo time limit, and give the player a reason to not turtle. This is no different to a regular village in any other FE game, except that due to how they function, bandits can be placed in closer, and safer, spaces to the village. Imagine the alternative to this, bandits spawn halfway across the map where they're easily killable. Heck, most villages in FE are easy to save, FE4 is one of the only games I have ever struggled to save all of the villages in, and it was super rewarding when I just barely saved a village, and it had one half house left, and then my reward is a nice ring. I fail to see how the villages, or the bandit positioning in relation to them, could be seen as a flaw or example of how poorly Genealogy is designed, and in fact I believe it is a perfect example of the inverse.

In any instance, far more often than not, you're relying on your mounted units to save them. And I think it's bad when thanks to the BS money system, foot units are reliant on visiting villages for money, for the most part.

18 hours ago, sirmola said:

on the other hand, i dislike RD, due to the horrible character ballance

Any comments on Genealogy's character balance? Because people seem to consider its balance the worst of any FE game by far.

 

Edit:

Quote

Sure, not SoV since it has a good pace, but Gaiden? That game is slower than Genealogy. Map design is a issue in both games, but it's way more noticeable in Gaiden where you can't even speed things up to a reasonable speed without an external button via an emulator or some other hack.

Really? I would say that Genealogy is also rather slow to the point where you'd need to regularly use a speed up button just to have things progress at an acceptable speed.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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