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Dragon Laguz, beasts or breaths? Place bets now.


Jotari
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What kind of weapon type will dragon laguz be?  

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  1. 1. What kind of weapon type will dragon laguz be?



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We've finally got some laguz as beasts units just like people have been asking for forever. But what will the dragon laguz be like do you think? I'm thinking they probably will just be beast units but will get the same effect as breath units to target different stats.

EDIT: I have found the reasons put forth as to why they will be breath units very compelling, so I've shifted by opinion. Now that I've been on both sides, I can't possibly be wrong!

Edited by Jotari
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7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

We've finally got some laguz as beasts units just like people have been skiing for forever. But what will the dragon laguz be like do you think? I'm thinking they probably will just be beast units but will get the same effect as breath units to target different stats.

I am confused. wouldnt that just be what we allready have.... Dragonstone users!?!?! Humanoids that transform into Dragons = Dragonstone user.

Edited by Hilda
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21 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I am confused. wouldnt that just be what we allready have.... Dragonstone users!?!?! Humanoids that transform into Dragons = Dragonstone user.

No, if they're laguz then they'd get laguz buffs instead of dragon buffs, still have the transformation mechanic and likely not receive bonus damage from Falchion etc 

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I don't know what IS will do with the dragon laguz, but they should function like beasts instead of manaketes.

Aside from both being called "dragons", the manaketes and the dragon laguz really don't have much in common at all. Dragons in Tellius are not godlike or worshipped as such, they are just an extremely powerful tribe of laguz. They also apparently don't live as long, transform using similar mechanics to other laguz instead of manakete, and -- like the other laguz -- have issues related to producing children with beorc. The half-manaketes that exist in Elibe, Ylisse, and wherever Fates takes place suggest that manaketes do not have this problem when producing children with humans.

So what I'm saying is that the dragon laguz really should function like beasts, but who knows if the developers will give that much thought to it.

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my best guess is that the dragon laguz will get exclusive breath weapons that operate under similar rules to the beast transformations (ie, if standing near or apart transform at start of turn.) but be placed in the breath catagory. looking at then weapon descriptions for the beast laguz they mention that if the unit is standing next to beast or DRAGON units that the unit gets to transform at the start of the turn after all.

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43 minutes ago, Jotari said:

No, if they're laguz then they'd get laguz buffs instead of dragon buffs, still have the transformation mechanic and likely not receive bonus damage from Falchion etc 

but they are dragons... so in fire emblem heroes they fall under Dragonstone users. I am really utterly confused

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If this question would have been posed before the beast mechanics were revealed (actually, I did pose this question when the Laguz were first announced for Heroes), I would've immediately said that they'd just use the already built-in dragonstone mechanics (I have a theory that laguz, manaketes, Fates beasts, and taguel are all actually basically laguz, just having developed in different ways, largely due to laguz stones being refined into dragonstones and beaststones in some cultures, and kept in their more raw, unrefined state in Tellius. In short, on one side of things, technology (stones) advanced, and on the other, the physiology advanced. So, adaptation went in opposite directions, and there you have it: Laguz and non-Laguz transforming people.) I was sure they'd just throw in beaststones and call it good, but instead they tried to mimic the Laguz transformation mechanics instead of keeping things simple. This also brings up the question of what they're going to do about the Fates beasts and the Taguel, who rely on stones like manaketes, but are very clearly beasts. Will beast stones be implemented then?

Since this seems likely, I'd say that dragon Laguz (being both dragons and Laguz, so really the question is "they're dragons, and they're Laguz, but dragons and Laguz have different transformation mechanics. Being both, which will they fall under?") will still be breath users, but not stone users. That is, they'll function like Laguz mechanics-wise, not manaketes. In contrast, further down the line, beast stones will be implemented as yet another weapon type. In short, IS made this complicated for themselves and now they're going to have to live with it.

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I read this pretty early today, so might be misremembering, but doesn't it say that manaketes will be treated as beorc for the purposes of the transformation mechanics in the blurb thing? That makes me think dragon laguz and probably the other beast units will be treated separately to manaketes. 

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1 hour ago, Hilda said:

but they are dragons... so in fire emblem heroes they fall under Dragonstone users. I am really utterly confused

In Fire Emblem Heroes they dont fall under any category because they haven't been implemented into the game yet. That's why we're discussing it.

1 hour ago, Florete said:

I'm guessing they'll be beasts since dragon laguz don't use dragonstones like the others.

Yeah, but Panne and Keaton etc all use stones too and will surely be beasts, unless they're just planning to shaft those units entirely.

1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

Since this seems likely, I'd say that dragon Laguz (being both dragons and Laguz, so really the question is "they're dragons, and they're Laguz, but dragons and Laguz have different transformation mechanics. Being both, which will they fall under?") will still be breath users, but not stone users. That is, they'll function like Laguz mechanics-wise, not manaketes. In contrast, further down the line, beast stones will be implemented as yet another weapon type. In short, IS made this complicated for themselves and now they're going to have to live with it.

I don't see them making a beast stone weapon type. There isn't even a dragonstone weapon type, it's the Breath Weapon type (even though the sprites do still hold stones. I don't think Grima's does though). Beast Stones would only have like ten users max, and that's including Morgans and Kanas. Unless they release seasonal where everyone gets to transform into beasts using stones, there's just not enough of a character pool.

Edited by Jotari
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dragon tribe laguz are probably gonna have breaths as their weapons, but they're also gonna have the "adjacent beast/dragon ally or no adjacent ally" condition

after all it's just an effetc, not a beast-only new mechanic

42 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

My thoughts are that dragon laguz will be breath users with the transformation effect, and taguel etc. will be beasts without the transformation effect.

yeah basically this, i think it's the only reasonable possibility

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afaik, all the dragon characters have never been refferd to as manakeetes, just dragon stone units. I doubt they would make something special for them, considering it would be confusing to have dragon's that weren't weak to dragonslayer weapons.

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6 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

afaik, all the dragon characters have never been refferd to as manakeetes, just dragon stone units. I doubt they would make something special for them, considering it would be confusing to have dragon's that weren't weak to dragonslayer weapons.

this pretty much

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9 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

considering it would be confusing to have dragon's that weren't weak to dragonslayer weapons.

Like I said, their weapon can have the "Skills with "effective against dragons" are effective against unit" effect, like the Loptous Tome has.

Although, I still believe Dragon Laguz being considered normal dragon units.

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I think it would be weird for them to be affected by Hone Beasts and not Hone Dragons. Also the whole laguz being able to transform next to dragons thing. Exclusive breath weapons that use the beast transform method seem possible.

5 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

I read this pretty early today, so might be misremembering, but doesn't it say that manaketes will be treated as beorc for the purposes of the transformation mechanics in the blurb thing? That makes me think dragon laguz and probably the other beast units will be treated separately to manaketes. 

That was talking about heroes where the character depicted is a manakete but they use non-breath weapons, like Summer Adult Tiki and Halloween Nowi.

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58 minutes ago, Othin said:

 

That was talking about heroes where the character depicted is a manakete but they use non-breath weapons, like Summer Adult Tiki and Halloween Nowi.

Ah yes. I went back and reread it when I was a bit more awake and realised I'd missed that bit >.<

Thanks ^.^

In that case... I'd still expect beast, but I'm not as certain. 

Edited by Cute Chao
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Due to the fact that the Laguz weapons' transformation requirement allows adjacent dragons, my guess is that Laguz dragons will use breath weapons, but still have the same transformation mechanic.

As for the dragonstone issue, the game already has Expiration, which is a breath weapon that doesn't have a dragonstone sprite. One can note, however, that both Grimas still have the ability to carry a dragonstone on their sprite if you change their weapon to something else (like their default lower-rarity weapons).

 

It'll still be a bit weird to be able to let Laguz dragons equip the normal breath weapons, but there's probably a good reason to not bother using them. Since it looks like the Laguz weapons grant an extra effect when transformed (+1 movement range for hawks and herons, Wo Dao effect on wolves), my guess is that Laguz dragon weapons will grant Distant Counter when transformed, making them generally superior than the inheritable breath weapons.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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