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best class in terms of birthright?

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1 hour ago, DiogoJorge said:

She has somewhat mediocre to average HP, but that never stopped me, specially in BR. In REV, she almost always goes the Berserker route, so she isn't too concerned about HP there either.

I use Corrin to tank too as a Paladin or Hero with a DEF boon, but I am not the type to be satisfied with only one tank. My main tanks are usually Corrin, Rinkah, Oboro or Hinoka (or both in BR) and Silas, specially REV Silas.

I find it hard to recommend Berserker when it's much, MUCH better as an enemy class than as a player class...

Having more than one tank is nice, but I would rather not have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for one. And Rinkah, as far as I'm concerned, is bottom of the barrel thanks to her shortcomings that ruin her chance of being a good tank.

1 hour ago, DiogoJorge said:

Myrmidons usually don't have the monstrous HP that Charllote has, so her lack of DEF isn't exactly as bad as Hana's case. DEF is definetely more important than HP, but when one has so much that it allows one to survive everything with 2-3 hits, than she does a passable job at surviving. Of course, since she kills enemies easily, she rarely has to concern herself to suffer an enemy phase against them, also helps that Rinkah boosts her STR and DEF further if they work as a team.

Point taken, but high HP doesn't help much when anything does massive damage because your defenses suck and evade is unreliable as a survival tool. Now, while she does kill enemies easily (if she hits, which is a big if), she is herself easy to off. That does not work out in my favour. And there's still the matter where Charlotte joins underleveled (someone who comes in at level 10 when Conquest and Revelation are a few chapters away from doing away with unpromoted enemies entirely is far more trouble than it's worth to try to salvage).

1 hour ago, DiogoJorge said:

Well, I suppose he's not that great, I rarely use him, since Charllote is usually better and doesn't have the same drawbacks. But I assume that he would be decent at least due to his SKL growth and DEF growth on top of good HP as well and the little competition for goddess icons. Rinkah rarely is criticalled, since pair ups usually reduce criticals to almost non-existant levels, only enemies with a lot of SKL have any chance of crit against her.

The whole Goddess Icon thing would mean much if he didn't need THREE to get out of the hole that his shit tier personal puts him in. That's ridiculous, and those Goddess Icons could be used to make other units who are not too hot in the luck department safer to use. While his skill and defense growths are good, it doesn't mean much if he cannot hit and kill enemies to level up, which often happens because he uses axes, which are inaccurate. Going back to Rinkah... While pair ups do reduce enemy crit chances, for particularly low luck units it might not be enough, and I'd rather not be forced to have to use pair up to make a unit NOT be a reset hazard.

2 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

Suit yourself, I'm not trying to force you to use Rinkah. Considering her personal and her overall growths as  a Oni or a Berserker, rarely had any reasons to complain about her stats.

Personally, I'm in the bases > growths camp, and Rinkah's bases being as they are worries me; using two bottom-of-the-barrel classes to defend her is not helping her already flimsy case, far as I'm concerned.. Her personal skill may help with her offense, but it can only do so much when her crap HP ruins her.

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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I find it hard to recommend Berserker when it's much, MUCH better as an enemy class than as a player class...

Having more than one tank is nice, but I would rather not have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for one. And Rinkah, as far as I'm concerned, is bottom of the barrel thanks to her shortcomings that ruin her chance of being a good tank.

Point taken, but high HP doesn't help much when anything does massive damage because your defenses suck and evade is unreliable as a survival tool. Now, while she does kill enemies easily (if she hits, which is a big if), she is herself easy to off. That does not work out in my favour. And there's still the matter where Charlotte joins underleveled (someone who comes in at level 10 when Conquest and Revelation are a few chapters away from doing away with unpromoted enemies entirely is far more trouble than it's worth to try to salvage).

The whole Goddess Icon thing would mean much if he didn't need THREE to get out of the hole that his shit tier personal puts him in. That's ridiculous, and those Goddess Icons could be used to make other units who are not too hot in the luck department safer to use. While his skill and defense growths are good, it doesn't mean much if he cannot hit and kill enemies to level up, which often happens because he uses axes, which are inaccurate. Going back to Rinkah... While pair ups do reduce enemy crit chances, for particularly low luck units it might not be enough, and I'd rather not be forced to have to use pair up to make a unit NOT be a reset hazard.

Personally, I'm in the bases > growths camp, and Rinkah's bases being as they are worries me; using two bottom-of-the-barrel classes to defend her is not helping her already flimsy case, far as I'm concerned.. Her personal skill may help with her offense, but it can only do so much when her crap HP ruins her.

Okay. Myself, I'm more in the growths camp, unless the bases are truely out of this world like Perceval, REV Silas etc... I usually stick with growth units, specially since there are dozens of those, so I have little fear of RNG screwage, one unit becomes bad, two or three become good, so it evens out.

Edited by DiogoJorge

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Personally I think Arthur is very good, his speed refuses to grow for me but his strength is pretty good and Frying Pan+ Gamble is such a fun combination.

Also axes aren't so bad in Fates, axes are only truly absolutely never worth using in FE6.

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1 hour ago, Critical Sniper said:

Personally I think Arthur is very good, his speed refuses to grow for me but his strength is pretty good and Frying Pan+ Gamble is such a fun combination.

Also axes aren't so bad in Fates, axes are only truly absolutely never worth using in FE6.

He has good strength, but so do most foot axes. It didn't make them good, and it most definitely doesn't make Arthur good, especially since other characters can hit hard without forcing situations with extremely high risk. Imo, the fact that you're saying that he needs a weapon that can only be obtained randomly doesn't help his case.

Sure, they may be better in Fates than in FE6 (and FE4), but that's saying very little, especially since there's only two good axe users in this game, and both of them are on wyvern-back. Besides, I don't think axes are as good as the other weapons in this game...

On 1/22/2019 at 8:34 AM, DiogoJorge said:

Okay. Myself, I'm more in the growths camp, unless the bases are truely out of this world like Perceval, REV Silas etc... I usually stick with growth units, specially since there are dozens of those, so I have little fear of RNG screwage, one unit becomes bad, two or three become good, so it evens out.

I don't get your obsession with good growths... Just look at Donnel from Awakening. He has good growths (with Aptitude at least), but his bases are so bad that trying to raise him is more trouble than it's worth. And his bad bases are only ONE of Donnel's problems.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

He has good strength, but so do most foot axes. It didn't make them good, and it most definitely doesn't make Arthur good, especially since other characters can hit hard without forcing situations with extremely high risk. Imo, the fact that you're saying that he needs a weapon that can only be obtained randomly doesn't help his case.

Sure, they may be better in Fates than in FE6 (and FE4), but that's saying very little, especially since there's only two good axe users in this game, and both of them are on wyvern-back. Besides, I don't think axes are as good as the other weapons in this game...

I don't get your obsession with good growths... Just look at Donnel from Awakening. He has good growths (with Aptitude at least), but his bases are so bad that trying to raise him is more trouble than it's worth. And his bad bases are only ONE of Donnel's problems.

Donnel is the exception, rather than the rule. He's no Mozu as he is much harder to train.

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1 hour ago, DiogoJorge said:

Donnel is the exception, rather than the rule. He's no Mozu as he is much harder to train.

Actually, I'll say Donnel is kind off the rule for those of the Est archetype since most are hard to train like Est herself, or Sophia and Nino, although much less so for the latter; it's even worse by the fact that he doesn't turn out much different than anyone else at the endgame.

To be fair though, Mozu is just very good even if you use one of her two crappy promotions instead of the Archer class, she will annihilate enemies very quickly.

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

He has good strength, but so do most foot axes. It didn't make them good, and it most definitely doesn't make Arthur good, especially since other characters can hit hard without forcing situations with extremely high risk. Imo, the fact that you're saying that he needs a weapon that can only be obtained randomly doesn't help his case.

Sure, they may be better in Fates than in FE6 (and FE4), but that's saying very little, especially since there's only two good axe users in this game, and both of them are on wyvern-back. Besides, I don't think axes are as good as the other weapons in this game...

Arthur has one difference from those foot axes and that is that he has actual speed and skill, whilst others do not. Furthermore, even without the Frying Pan, which is very common to get actually, he still hits hard and you can just unequip gamble off of him if you want to so that's no problem. Those other units that can hit hard are Effie, who will never double; Corrin, which shouldn't be a surprise and Camilla amongst many others that join once Arthur is already doing fine and his skill makes him hit many things even with gamble and no frying pan so I don't see how he is bad when his skill has him hit well and hard.
EDIT: Also I said Frying Pan + Gamble is a fun combination, never said it was necessary.

They are also better than FE1-6, those are on wyvern-back but Arthur joins earlier and with higher strength and also durability, I don't think Scarlet's weakness to bows isn't as bad as Diogo makes it out to be and having a flier is a good thing, but a unit being better doesn't make everyone inferior to it worse, for example Seth is basically the best unit in FE8 and yet I don't see people saying Franz is a bad unit or Vanessa. Also Scarlet's hitrates aren't as good as Arthur's.

But anyway let's get back on track, Knights are tankier than Oni Fighters or whatever their name is, however Rinkah is one of the tankiest units on Birthright, alongside Hinata with his OP Armored blow skill.

Edited by Critical Sniper

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1 hour ago, Critical Sniper said:

Arthur has one difference from those foot axes and that is that he has actual speed and skill, whilst others do not. Furthermore, even without the Frying Pan, which is very common to get actually, he still hits hard and you can just unequip gamble off of him if you want to so that's no problem. Those other units that can hit hard are Effie, who will never double; Corrin, which shouldn't be a surprise and Camilla amongst many others that join once Arthur is already doing fine and his skill makes him hit many things even with gamble and no frying pan so I don't see how he is bad when his skill has him hit well and hard.
EDIT: Also I said Frying Pan + Gamble is a fun combination, never said it was necessary.

They are also better than FE1-6, those are on wyvern-back but Arthur joins earlier and with higher strength and also durability, I don't think Scarlet's weakness to bows isn't as bad as Diogo makes it out to be and having a flier is a good thing, but a unit being better doesn't make everyone inferior to it worse, for example Seth is basically the best unit in FE8 and yet I don't see people saying Franz is a bad unit or Vanessa. Also Scarlet's hitrates aren't as good as Arthur's.

But anyway let's get back on track, Knights are tankier than Oni Fighters or whatever their name is, however Rinkah is one of the tankiest units on Birthright, alongside Hinata with his OP Armored blow skill.

Arthur may have good skill and speed growths, but his bases in both of those are...  not great. Also, I would say he doesn't hold a candle to Nolan, Geitz or Barst. And he's unreliable as things are - those growths being good doesn't mean a damn if he can't hit and kill enemies to level up. Even without Gamble, he is more of a hindrance than a help unless you glue bronze weapons to him (otherwise, you run the risk of him automatically losing any engagement), and even that's only a temporary solution at best, to say nothing of how limiting it is. I dunno about you, but I'm not okay with playing Russian Roulette every time he sees combat, so of course I'll look to anyone else for hitting hard without risking my game being blown up by the RNG giving me the middle finger. His crit susceptibility also negatively impacts his durability.

That's not saying much - axes were either enemy-only (Book 2, Gaiden) or were bad in those titles (the rest, other than maybe Thracia). Whilst I do agree that one unit being good doesn't make everyone else worse, Arthur is just not good. The only thing he's good for is pair up fodder. Also, you forgot the part where Scarlet's not locked to the most inaccurate weapon type.

I don't know why you're bringing up Armored Blow - it's a level 15 skill, which means that you're likely not seeing it until very late, if at all.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Arthur may have good skill and speed growths, but his bases in both of those are...  not great.

iirc Corrin's base speed aren't great and yet you'll see him frequently doubling, sure bases are important but it doesn't make a unit by themselves, also his skill of 9 and speed of 8 aren't "not great" they are pretty ok for this point in the game, also his availability is very good (Chapters 1-6 are like non relevant).
 

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, I would say he doesn't hold a candle to Nolan, Geitz or Barst.

Nolan, Geitz and Barst are great fighters and they appear in other games, their existance doesn't make Arthur bad sure they are better than him but that's like saying "Lute is a bad unit because Pent exists".
 

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

And he's unreliable as things are - those growths being good doesn't mean a damn if he can't hit and kill enemies to level up.

But he can kill enemies and hit them, I think you just got the worst RNG possible there, I don't know about you but he mostly 2 shots things with a bronze axe at base level or with a few more strength points, also his hit is pretty ok with an iron axe if what you need is more strength, sure it can sometimes be too low but last I saw, avoid is really bad in fates so it's almost no problem.
 

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Even without Gamble, he is more of a hindrance than a help unless you glue bronze weapons to him (otherwise, you run the risk of him automatically losing any engagement), and even that's only a temporary solution at best, to say nothing of how limiting it is.

I don't see how a unit that deals good damage is a hindrance, also bronze weapons might not have the best stats but the axe variant is the best one since it has decent might and hit so Arthur will still most likely knock a unit down to half health or less with a single, accurate hit and also his defense is good enough to not "automatically lose any engagement"; sure bronze weapons aren't the best but they are there for the start of the game when you need to hit the most since later on your units become much better than the opponents.
 

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I dunno about you, but I'm not okay with playing Russian Roulette every time he sees combat, so of course I'll look to anyone else for hitting hard without risking my game being blown up by the RNG giving me the middle finger. His crit susceptibility also negatively impacts his durability.

Dude seriously stop it with the "Arthur instantly blows up upon contact with the enemy" argument, he doesn't he survives well enough after 1 or 2 rounds of combat and that's as much a unit should see in FE most of the time unless they are a Knight choking a point (By that I mean generally it's a bad idea to send one unit in the middle of the fray if not backed up by others to not get flanked or not insanely superior) and if he takes a crit to the face he can probably survive it with his decent def and high HP as opposed to most Fates units. You could also give him the godess icons you encounter, nobody else really needs them and selling them is not necessary unless you bought all those Friendship seals on the My castle store, if you did shame on you lol who uses them?
 

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

That's not saying much - axes were either enemy-only (Book 2, Gaiden) or were bad in those titles (the rest, other than maybe Thracia). Whilst I do agree that one unit being good doesn't make everyone else worse, Arthur is just not good. The only thing he's good for is pair up fodder. Also, you forgot the part where Scarlet's not locked to the most inaccurate weapon type.

Yeah well I guess that's true. Arthur is good though, his durability is good enough to tank a crit and he dishes out the damage acccurately except maybe at the early gamewith his first 5 or so levels, seems good to me. Not really, you could also pair him up if RNG is being bad to you. Axes aren;t even that innacurate lol but he isn't locked to it, as hero he gets swords and if you're so annoyed by it you can reclass him into cavalier to have another Silas but with more HP and strength and lower luck I guess? Look having luck as your flaw isn't so bad, that's how most Avatars are, with a flaw on luck.

 

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I don't know why you're bringing up Armored Blow - it's a level 15 skill, which means that you're likely not seeing it until very late, if at all.

Oh, I saw Hinata with it in CQ and saw it was good there as it made him a bit tough on enemy phase. Don't tell me I got trolololed by the devs :wacko:


 

21 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Stop feeding the troll and move on folks.

I'm not a troll, I've always enjoyed using Arthur and saw how he has always been good with his high damage and good bulk of his, unless you're talking about Diogo in which case I mean he received that reputation but I don't think a troll would be that adamant or persistent and he would also be banned if he were a troll. Having a different opinion doesn't mean troll, unless he raids forums or gets other people banned I wouldn't call him that.

I would say he is controversial, that suits him best or "Lawful bad" on an alignment chart as it says on the Gamefaqs Fates wikia.

Edited by Critical Sniper

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56 minutes ago, Critical Sniper said:

iirc Corrin's base speed aren't great and yet you'll see him frequently doubling, sure bases are important but it doesn't make a unit by themselves, also his skill of 9 and speed of 8 aren't "not great" they are pretty ok for this point in the game, also his availability is very good (Chapters 1-6 are like non relevant).

True, bases aren't everything, but of course, bad bases make a unit harder to work with. Also, I don't give a fig about Arthur having good availability since he's an active detriment to the team, ergo, I'm always better off without him than with him.

56 minutes ago, Critical Sniper said:

Nolan, Geitz and Barst are great fighters and they appear in other games, their existance doesn't make Arthur bad sure they are better than him but that's like saying "Lute is a bad unit because Pent exists".

True, they're in other games, but I see them as respectable - which cannot be said of Arthur.

56 minutes ago, Critical Sniper said:

But he can kill enemies and hit them, I think you just got the worst RNG possible there, I don't know about you but he mostly 2 shots things with a bronze axe at base level or with a few more strength points, also his hit is pretty ok with an iron axe if what you need is more strength, sure it can sometimes be too low but last I saw, avoid is really bad in fates so it's almost no problem.

Glad to see you're willing to put unwavering (and frankly, blind) trust in the untrustworthy. Unfortunately, I'm not willing to trust the numbers.

56 minutes ago, Critical Sniper said:

I don't see how a unit that deals good damage is a hindrance, also bronze weapons might not have the best stats but the axe variant is the best one since it has decent might and hit so Arthur will still most likely knock a unit down to half health or less with a single, accurate hit and also his defense is good enough to not "automatically lose any engagement"; sure bronze weapons aren't the best but they are there for the start of the game when you need to hit the most since later on your units become much better than the opponents.

Because you're only looking at the positives. Now, I'll grant, he may be durable, but it ain't by enough that I can overlook his tendency to face crit chances.

56 minutes ago, Critical Sniper said:

Dude seriously stop it with the "Arthur instantly blows up upon contact with the enemy" argument, he doesn't he survives well enough after 1 or 2 rounds of combat and that's as much a unit should see in FE most of the time unless they are a Knight choking a point (By that I mean generally it's a bad idea to send one unit in the middle of the fray if not backed up by others to not get flanked or not insanely superior) and if he takes a crit to the face he can probably survive it with his decent def and high HP as opposed to most Fates units. You could also give him the godess icons you encounter, nobody else really needs them and selling them is not necessary unless you bought all those Friendship seals on the My castle store, if you did shame on you lol who uses them?

I'll agree that in general, sending out one unit without backup is not a good idea unless they significantly outclass the enemy, but I cannot - and will not - trust Arthur even in situations where he should match up well against the enemy. Also, giving him the Goddess Icons doesn't do jack because his personal skill makes him easier to crit. Needing three goddess icons to get out of the hole he starts in only for him to still face crit chances from everything under the sun... You should already know my answer to that: H-E-L-L N-O! I'll give them to someone who actually benefits, not that schmuck.

56 minutes ago, Critical Sniper said:

Arthur is good though, his durability is good enough to tank a crit and he dishes out the damage acccurately except maybe at the early gamewith his first 5 or so levels, seems good to me. Not really, you could also pair him up if RNG is being bad to you. Axes aren;t even that innacurate lol but he isn't locked to it, as hero he gets swords and if you're so annoyed by it you can reclass him into cavalier to have another Silas but with more HP and strength and lower luck I guess? Look having luck as your flaw isn't so bad, that's how most Avatars are, with a flaw on luck.

Really now? Have you not yet realized the exercise in futility you're partaking in? Trying to convince me a luck flaw is good is also a lost cause.

56 minutes ago, Critical Sniper said:

Oh, I saw Hinata with it in CQ and saw it was good there as it made him a bit tough on enemy phase. Don't tell me I got trolololed by the devs :wacko:

Well, he does have it there. Not that it matters, because I just ignore him and his squadron. 

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7 hours ago, Critical Sniper said:

iirc Corrin's base speed aren't great and yet you'll see him frequently doubling, sure bases are important but it doesn't make a unit by themselves, also his skill of 9 and speed of 8 aren't "not great" they are pretty ok for this point in the game, also his availability is very good (Chapters 1-6 are like non relevant).
 

Nolan, Geitz and Barst are great fighters and they appear in other games, their existance doesn't make Arthur bad sure they are better than him but that's like saying "Lute is a bad unit because Pent exists".
 

But he can kill enemies and hit them, I think you just got the worst RNG possible there, I don't know about you but he mostly 2 shots things with a bronze axe at base level or with a few more strength points, also his hit is pretty ok with an iron axe if what you need is more strength, sure it can sometimes be too low but last I saw, avoid is really bad in fates so it's almost no problem.
 

I don't see how a unit that deals good damage is a hindrance, also bronze weapons might not have the best stats but the axe variant is the best one since it has decent might and hit so Arthur will still most likely knock a unit down to half health or less with a single, accurate hit and also his defense is good enough to not "automatically lose any engagement"; sure bronze weapons aren't the best but they are there for the start of the game when you need to hit the most since later on your units become much better than the opponents.
 

Dude seriously stop it with the "Arthur instantly blows up upon contact with the enemy" argument, he doesn't he survives well enough after 1 or 2 rounds of combat and that's as much a unit should see in FE most of the time unless they are a Knight choking a point (By that I mean generally it's a bad idea to send one unit in the middle of the fray if not backed up by others to not get flanked or not insanely superior) and if he takes a crit to the face he can probably survive it with his decent def and high HP as opposed to most Fates units. You could also give him the godess icons you encounter, nobody else really needs them and selling them is not necessary unless you bought all those Friendship seals on the My castle store, if you did shame on you lol who uses them?
 

Yeah well I guess that's true. Arthur is good though, his durability is good enough to tank a crit and he dishes out the damage acccurately except maybe at the early gamewith his first 5 or so levels, seems good to me. Not really, you could also pair him up if RNG is being bad to you. Axes aren;t even that innacurate lol but he isn't locked to it, as hero he gets swords and if you're so annoyed by it you can reclass him into cavalier to have another Silas but with more HP and strength and lower luck I guess? Look having luck as your flaw isn't so bad, that's how most Avatars are, with a flaw on luck.

 

Oh, I saw Hinata with it in CQ and saw it was good there as it made him a bit tough on enemy phase. Don't tell me I got trolololed by the devs :wacko:


 

I'm not a troll, I've always enjoyed using Arthur and saw how he has always been good with his high damage and good bulk of his, unless you're talking about Diogo in which case I mean he received that reputation but I don't think a troll would be that adamant or persistent and he would also be banned if he were a troll. Having a different opinion doesn't mean troll, unless he raids forums or gets other people banned I wouldn't call him that.

I would say he is controversial, that suits him best or "Lawful bad" on an alignment chart as it says on the Gamefaqs Fates wikia.

Arthur is a dracozerk candidate with innate cav line and an early male with a pre-ch10 kid so yes he's obviously good. Low luck is useful.

Levant just argues that everything good is bad for... reasons.

Edited by joshcja

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11 hours ago, joshcja said:

Arthur is a dracozerk candidate with innate cav line and an early male with a pre-ch10 kid so yes he's obviously good. Low luck is useful.

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not.

11 hours ago, joshcja said:

Levant just argues that everything good is bad for... reasons.

Is Levant Shadow Mir? 

 

Also dude, you dont need to quote everything I said you can selecta specific bit and the website prompts you if thats what you want to quote.

Edited by Critical Sniper

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Arthur's awful Dodge lets him do various AI manipulation tricks. Sometimes enemies will ignore units who can’t fight back or who would die to multiple enemy attacks because they all read a 1% crit rate on Arthur and would kill him if they crit. The enemy almost always goes for attacks with a listed chance to kill, even if their actual chance is very low or the attack will be blocked by a dual guard.

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6 hours ago, Critical Sniper said:

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not.

Is Levant Shadow Mir? 

 

Also dude, you dont need to quote everything I said you can selecta specific bit and the website prompts you if thats what you want to quote.

Yes.

Oh no, a berserker with low luck. Never in the history of Fire Emblem has this been worth using on every map for the rest of the game /sarcasm.

Make shorter posts or @ folks for single line replies.

Also what Zoran said.

Edited by joshcja

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12 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Yes.

Oh no, a berserker with low luck. Never in the history of Fire Emblem has this been worth using on every map for the rest of the game /sarcasm.

Make shorter posts or @ folks for single line replies.

Also what Zoran said.

Ok for real tho, Berserker only start becoming usable in FE7 so i don't stress it that much, the damn weapon type only started sitting in the same seat in FE8, and good in 9 onwards and we're still 15 games in ffs

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

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28 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Ok for real tho, Berserker only start becoming usable in FE7 so i don't stress it that much, the damn weapon type only started sitting in the same seat in FE8, and good in 9 onwards and we're still 15 games in ffs

Eh, 7/15 games (or all but one of the games they exist in?) ain't bad.

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19 hours ago, Zoran said:

Arthur's awful Dodge lets him do various AI manipulation tricks. Sometimes enemies will ignore units who can’t fight back or who would die to multiple enemy attacks because they all read a 1% crit rate on Arthur and would kill him if they crit. The enemy almost always goes for attacks with a listed chance to kill, even if their actual chance is very low or the attack will be blocked by a dual guard.

Not only that but Arthur can take one crit or 2 but the latter seldom happens. If he is paired with someone like Effie his great bulk just skyrockets. His paired up defense will probably be inferior to Effie's but like he is the only unit with great HP in FE14 iirc.

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10 hours ago, Critical Sniper said:

Not only that but Arthur can take one crit or 2 but the latter seldom happens. If he is paired with someone like Effie his great bulk just skyrockets. His paired up defense will probably be inferior to Effie's but like he is the only unit with great HP in FE14 iirc.

Define "great HP", because I think advertising Arthur as the only unit with great HP is, simply put, bullshit. Also, this is a strategy game, and I see nothing strategic about risking your game on hoping someone who's susceptible to critical hits doesn't croak to one.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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8 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Define "great HP", because I think advertising Arthur as the only unit with great HP is, simply put, bullshit. Also, this is a strategy game, and I see nothing strategic about risking your game on hoping someone who's susceptible to critical hits doesn't croak to one.

Yeah, you also have Charlotte, Keaton, Benny, any child of Charlotte. Possibly Xander, and most definitely an HP boon Corrin.

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15 hours ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

Yeah, you also have Charlotte, Keaton, Benny, any child of Charlotte. Possibly Xander, and most definitely an HP boon Corrin.

Also Odin and Laslow have pretty good HP growths.  Laslow's defense is pretty decent too, and Odin's defense... well, isn't great, but it's the best of the mages aside from Leo and potentially the avatar.

Though wait, why did this turn into a discussion about Nohrian characters now?  Seems like the opposite of what TC was asking about.

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On 1/25/2019 at 11:37 PM, Shadow Mir said:

Define "great HP"

70% Growth and 29 Base at level 7. None of the characters that any of you said match this HP and probably won't surpass him in it for quite a long time if any of them have higher growths than 70%. I'm not saying those units have bad HP but Arthur is one of the few that do have.

 

16 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Though wait, why did this turn into a discussion about Nohrian characters now?  Seems like the opposite of what TC was asking about.

Who knows

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Topic Creator, 

My choice for the best class for tanking in Birthright is actually a Nohrian class, Dark Knight, a promotion of Dark Mage, which you can still access through the Avatar (Corrin), his/her spouse, his or her child Kana, and Kana's S-rank Partners and A+ Rank Friends.  [In practicality, Corrin, his/her spouse, and maybe Kana are the only ones likely to use it in a typical run].   

You can access Dark Knight by having Corrin/the Avatar pick a "Mage" talent at the character creation screen at the start of the game.  

Anyways, why Dark Knight?  

Good HP and DEF growths, high base DEF values, the ability to wield tomes (that let you counterattack at 1-2 range), especially the ability to use Horse Spirit (+3 SKL/SPD/DEF/RES when equipped).  Also, by virtue of having it and thus being able to pass it onto a spouse, you can have that spouse also in Dark Knight, and this class gives a +DEF pair-up bonus which lets your pair now tank even better.  Oh, and it has 8-movement as a calvary unit and there are very few Beastkilling weapons in Birthright, making Dark Knight far less susceptible to its weakness than flying units with respect to frequency of having it become relevant.  

Edited by astrophys
Eliminating unneeded extra space

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On 1/27/2019 at 4:16 PM, Critical Sniper said:

70% Growth and 29 Base at level 7. None of the characters that any of you said match this HP and probably won't surpass him in it for quite a long time if any of them have higher growths than 70%. I'm not saying those units have bad HP but Arthur is one of the few that do have.

That sounds like what I'd expect a fighter to have starting out, given that for the most part, HP is one of the only two stats you can count on a fighter having a high amount of (Strength being the other one). The issue is with everything else, particularly speed and defenses, since high HP doesn't really compensate for lacking speed or defenses. Now, Arthur avoids having low skill, but his defenses are another issue, especially since his tendency to face chances of eating triple damage means his otherwise solid defense tends to not hold up very well in practice. He's also stuck with the most inaccurate weapon type unless you reclass him or promote him into Hero, which doesn't help matters. Sure, I could pair him up with, say, Effie to shore up his defense, but that means I'm sacrificing a superior unit to try to make a worse one usable. Not to mention that Arthur's pretty much always better being in the back of a pair up, aka his only real use.

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3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

but that means I'm sacrificing a superior unit to try to make a worse one usable.

HAHAHA  Effie superior? where in chapter 10? I don't know about you but 4 mov is pretty bad and I'll rather use my boots on someone like a Paladin

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1 hour ago, Critical Sniper said:

HAHAHA  Effie superior? where in chapter 10? I don't know about you but 4 mov is pretty bad and I'll rather use my boots on someone like a Paladin

I usually use both. Arthur is a mini Silas in terms of stats and a reclassed to cav is always fun.

And I like tanks. Effie usually lasts until endgame for me.

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