Is there really a "divide" within the FE Fandom?

[Balthasaurus]

I keep seeing that phrase used quite frequently to describe the differences between the perspectives of newcomers and veterans to the series. 

Older fans are put off from the new games due to the changes they made to the series, such as the avatars, new support mechanics and non-realistic characters; newer fans don't want to get into the permadeath and older mechanics, because it would involve abandoning the things that make them love the series in the first place.

However, I generally think this is an unfair way to describe things. While it is true that many veterans dislike the newer titles and conform to the stereotype, it seems many have enjoyed those games for their own merits. And in my personal experience, I have never met a newcomer who is opposed to playing an older FE game just because they're boiled down to the basic staples of the series. As someone who's first game was Awakening, I really to play one of the GBA or Tellius games, but don't currently have a way to.

So, while I definitely agree that the newer games like to do things their own way, and that everyone is entitled to a different informed opinion on where the series has gone in recent years with the influx of new players, I don't really feel as though this mentality of "two fandoms" is particularly true.

Anyone else care to share their thoughts? I'm off to go replay Echoes.

[Michelaar]

I think there is definitly a divide, but I think not everyone belongs to one group or the other. I would say the divide is mostly between two minorities. I myself liked all Fire emblem games I've played, which is all of them except 1-3. I also think that a lot of members of either of these groups you mentioned are quite childish with their constant arguing and having to bring others down because they like or don't like the same games that they themselves do.

[Lau]

Honestly, I think the only major divide is over Fates. I don't really see Awakening get any flak anymore, it's always Fates. There's a lot of reasons why, from how "anime" the series has become, to how easy the gameplay is now, or how bad the story is. I think the reason why Awakening doesn't come under fire much is due to Fates expanding on Awakening's subtle fanservice and whatnot.

At the end of the day, there's always going to be a divide - you can't please everyone. But keep in mind, it's just a vocal minority.

[Ertrick36]

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't.

Not really much different from any other media franchise that's evolved in some way.  They all have their schisms and skirmishes.  The Sonic fandom's like this, the Zelda fandom's like this, the Resident Evil fandom's like this...  It's hard for me nowadays to see this as a particularly unique problem for the fandom.  And it's usually just a few pissant people from two perspectives arguing with each other, while most folks like me get tired of it all.

Of course, it doesn't help that I have some strange inclination to approach some of these people who do a lot of complaining.  Maybe I subconsciously think I can appease them and make them less bitter so that I can have a discussion about a game that doesn't go horribly awry, but I also know consciously that there's no changing folks.  That being said, I mostly try to stay away from arguments.  Now, I love to critique and criticize as much as the next guy, but I don't like butting heads with other folks on petty things and matters of opinion like why I find Lucina to be an appealing character.

Though sometimes I feel like I'm no better than the complainers, and that is something I'm always trying to change.  At the very least, I abide by a simple code of conduct in which I will never insult someone else for having a different taste or otherwise treat them poorly for it.  Had far too many experiences with people insulting me or beating me down on the net in my early days interacting on forums, I don't want to inflict that upon other folks.

[Roland]

It wouldn't be a fandom if there wasn't.

[Etrurian emperor]

While there is a divide I suspect that its just a vocal minority. The vast majority of FE fans probably like both the old and the new games even if the recognize the problems with either style.

[AndrewMcC00l]

I usually notice two divides. People tend to really like either FE1-5, FE6-12, and FE13 On. There are people who dip in between, but I notice these are the big divides, but even then it's not as pronounced as many claim such divides are.

[Decerd]

I'd say yes, and most of the times , it's elitist/fans of the older games that give the community the reputation it has. The worst thing I've seen newer fans do is go "I don't know much about the older games." That's it.

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Lau said:

Honestly, I think the only major divide is over Fates. I don't really see Awakening get any flak anymore, it's always Fates. There's a lot of reasons why, from how "anime" the series has become, to how easy the gameplay is now, or how bad the story is. I think the reason why Awakening doesn't come under fire much is due to Fates expanding on Awakening's subtle fanservice and whatnot.

At the end of the day, there's always going to be a divide - you can't please everyone. But keep in mind, it's just a vocal minority.

I've seen Awakening get some flak here and there, though it's mostly places like Reddit.

And yes, I agree it's a vocal minority. 

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

51 minutes ago, Balthasaurus said:

As someone who's first game was Awakening, I really to play one of the GBA or Tellius games, but don't currently have a way to.

*cough* emulators *cough*

52 minutes ago, Balthasaurus said:

So, while I definitely agree that the newer games like to do things their own way, and that everyone is entitled to a different informed opinion on where the series has gone in recent years with the influx of new players, I don't really feel as though this mentality of "two fandoms" is particularly true.

Anyone else care to share their thoughts? I'm off to go replay Echoes.

from what i've seen so far, there's no real "divide" in the general fandom. the majority of people normally like all the games for what they are, with some exceptions eventually.

 

it's always the minority of "classic hardcore elitist" type of gamers present in any kind of community that usually are the ones who tend to be more vocal about things they don't like, and will try to bring any discussion into oblivion and beyond with whoever doesn't agree with them, almost as if their life depends on it.

that's the kind of people you probably shouldn't give any attention to, and just forget about them entirely. or at least, that's what i usually do with toxic people that have terrible attitudes.

 

you'll find out there's plenty of people who have their own opinions, and yet they can still talk with each other while respecting other people's opinions even if they're different( althou that partially depends on one's maturity as well ).

it's alright if you don't agree with someone else on a specific subject, as long as you don't bash him/her for thinking in a different way.

[Alkaid]

For years on end I've hardly gone a day without seeing shit-flinging between veterans and fans that started with the 3DS era, so I'd say so. I think it's a vocal minority, but it's a very vocal one.

I'm sure most of the fanbase enjoys or is at least neutral on majority of the games, but the people who dislike any entries in the series love to make sure everybody knows constantly. It's by far a bigger issue coming from the veterans' camp, and in retaliation you get newer players trashing people too. The cycle just goes on. Luckily Serenes stays more tame than most places about this, but go say your favorite game is Fates or Thracia on Gfaqs or other communities and see what happens.

Most franchises have that minority of veteran elitists, but FE feels like one of the worst I've encountered. It makes the "there's only 151 Pokemon" crowd seem like a joke.

[Mega Koopa]

I wouldn't say there's an actual "divide". Acting as such only provides another excuse to separate and label people who all essentially love the same series of games. Every community has its fair share of "elitists" and "casuals". I don't see why the FE community is much different. 

[HK Motendra]

So what do you do with the peeps that fall into the middle? And by middle, I mean DS era if you can call it that. I know damn well I'm no veteran but those are what i started with and have only been going forward

Edited January 20, 2019 by Motendra

[smgrinus]

I've been playing and replaying most of the Fire Emblem games for a really long time. The thing that always drew me back was the unique mix of strategy and role play in all of the fire emblem games. There are strengths and weaknesses to every game in the series.  The fandom exists because all our experiences differ and there are many elements to discuss and dissect. I think this is a good thing and normal interaction in a gaming forum. 

I recently started Shadow Dragon again after a few years and I have to admit that I may have been too harsh on how it looked and played. It just goes to show you that one's perspective changes over time. At an earlier point in my life, I found hard mode in Radiant Dawn frustrating and unbalanced. Now, I play it and I find myself more patient and willing to take on its challenges. It certainly doesn't hurt that I find the protagonists likeable and watch their stories unfold.

As for availability of the older titles, I don't quite understand why Nintendo and IS are so hesitant about making those rare titles less so on the Switch. It is powerful enough to emulate titles and the emulation scene has shown it can be done with 720p/1080p improvements with relative ease. My copy of Fire Emblem Path of Radiance on Game Cube regularly trades at retro gaming shops for 80-120 dollars credit. You would think Nintendo isn't allergic to additional cash flow with minimal work unless emulating on the Switch is an issue or there is a reason/s that we are unaware of.

Perhaps, emulation of their older titles is tied to their paid online service and Fire Emblem fans will eventually see those titles show there. I do know a collection of NES titles are on their way to it. Maybe, Gamecube/GBA/Wii games will be there too.

[Duff Ostrich]

I'm old enough to remember the point of contention being a bit different in the pre-Awakening world, with the main argument from Kaga era purists being that the series had been "dumbed down" for international appeal as it came overseas. As always, there was a grain of truth mixed in with a some hyperbole. This tension seemed to evaporate with Radiant Dawn and Shadow Dragon, given how those titles were noticeably more challenging than either Sacred Stones or Path of Radiance.

These days I'm the fossilized veteran. I liked Awakening at the time and I still like it now, but Fates crossed a stylistic line that I found very difficult to reconcile. I have never liked a game in this series less, even if there were genuinely compelling ideas in the gameplay. Meanwhile, the likes of Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Fire Emblem Warriors, and Fire Emblem Heroes represent things that do not appeal to me in any way. What brought me back into the fold was Shadows of Valentia, which I thought was an ideal remake and proof that IS still considers people like me part of their customer base.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Duff Ostrich

[Zapp Branniglenn]

The divide was most evident when new games were coming out. But since we've been getting a relatively constant supply of Fire Emblem games since the start of 2017, there really hasn't been a cooldown period, forcing new and older fans to just chill in the same room for a bit. 

But when I hear either side talk about how they feel alienated by the other, it's kind of a joke to me. It's the "Why am I persecuted?" line in the Cruzible. It's not being able to take criticisms of your game in stride, so you disengage and whine about it to other people. Good god it wasn't long ago the general Fire Emblem forum had a flood of threads by one user that all started with "Why do people say...". I don't know why they said that. Why don't you ask them instead of randos? One person does not represent the whole community. When people claim they're being targeted, they are doing a heck of a lot more to divide the fandom by making mountains out of mole hills.

[Slumber]

5 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

The Sonic fandom's like this, the Zelda fandom's like this, the Resident Evil fandom's like this...  It's hard for me nowadays to see this as a particularly unique problem for the fandom.

As somebody who's a part of the fandoms of the latter two, no. They're nothing like FE in this regard.

Most people in Zelda and RE tend to enjoy most, if not all of the game. In the few years after RE4, there was definitely a rift between fixed vs. over the shoulder cameras, but it has died down considerably as more and more games were done in the OTS style with different tones and atmospheres. Even RE7 going first person was only a big problem for a very small portion of its fandom, and a good chunk of the people who objected to it were won over by the game going back to the roots of Resident Evil. Most of the fandom these days, it's people going "Yeah, all of the games besides 0 and 6(And/or 5 and CV) are pretty great!" It's really just a handful of contentious games that span two of the prior RE styles.

With Zelda, I can't think of any major divide. It's mostly just people who enjoy certain games, as opposed to others. I can't recall there ever being a "Man, 2D Zelda SUCKS, 3D Zelda rules!" type of fandom rift.

The FE fandom's rift is far more consistent and noticeable. It's pretty much is squarely people who like Awakening and Fates vs. People who like the older games. There are outliers, but this is the most noticeable divide.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Slumber

[Rapaille]

I think that the whole divide thing within the Fire Emblem community depends on the person itself and the place that they're active.

I for example never felt a divide mostly because I don't make a big deal about what someone else thinks about something. It's just their opinion and if they can explain why they feel that way and give solid arguments then there opinion is just as valid as mine and shouldn't be a reason for a major divide. If someone told me that he/she thinks that fe10 has a good story and he/she explains why that's his/her opinion then I see no problem, no matter how much I disagree with that opinion and the fact that I also want to make clear why my opinion is different.

The place where you're active also influences how you think about the whole divide thing. Someone who only interacts with fe fans on the youtube comment section will have a very different opinion on 'the divide' then someone on serenes forest (or at least I hope they do).

Maybe there is a divide, maybe there isn't. I honestly don't care. All games in Fire Emblem have strenghts and weaknesses and depending on who you are you are gonna have some games that you like or some games that you dislike and as long as we are civil about it (which I think most people are here) I see no problem. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by LJwalhout

[Dandy Druid]

There is a divide, BUT there is one thing that unites us all: our love (read as: hate) of Fire Emblem.

[Ottservia]

You know I sort of spoke about this in another thread so I'm just gonna echo what I said there

Quote

I think awakening in general gets more flak then it deserves. When it comes to any kind of extreme concensus there is always two sides. One side who blindly love a thing who see nothing but merit in the media consumed. Then the other side who is the exact opposite and see nothing but flaws in the thing. Both sides tend to overemphasize their arguments and completely belittle the other. Critique in this case gets muddled and cloudy cause both sides are always at each other’s throats. Leaving those in the middle(like you or I) just caught in the crossfire. I mean I love awakening but that doesn’t mean I’m blind to its faults. It’s just to me personally the pros outweigh the cons. Critique should always be fair, balanced, and as unbiased as possible acknowledging both the merits and shortcomings of the thing being critiqued. Give credit where it’s due and call out shortcomings when you see them. I don’t know if I’ve explained this as well as I could have but oh well.

The divide is definitely there but like others have said at this point it's more a vocal minority(unless of course you go to the youtube comment section then...) an extremely loud vocal minority but a minority none the less. Though with the recent string of happenings in heroes well I dunno if minority is the right way to put it. Honestly I think the problem lies with IS and their not understanding on what made people like awakening to begin with. Cause when you really think about it if not for fates basically inflating all the stuff the (for lack of a better term) "elitists" "disliked" about awakening then I don't think the divide would be so prevalent today. I mean yeah sure you'd still have a small vocal minority(like every fandom) but they wouldn't be nearly as loud nor as prevalent as they are currently. Cause honestly from what I can see the backlash is mostly towards fates nowadays and less so towards awakening because people got over it and found something new to complain about. 

[indigoasis]

I've noticed a divide based on what people have said (and this lovely video which I think serves as a pretty good example to show this divide), and me and a friend have talked about it before a long time ago, although I think it was a brief conversation.

I've made threads asking about games in the series (like what game would you get rid of and what would be the "definitive" game in the series), and then the issue of a divide in the community gets brought up. It was never my intention to have that brought up, and I just wanted to ask a simple question that I thought would be interesting, but I digress.

Anyway, every game has something unique to offer in some way, and people are entitled to their own opinions about what they think about the series or a specific game. I usually try to do my best to stay out of that stuff and enjoy what I want to enjoy without the worry that someone will criticize me for what I like.

To me, the "divide" is that one part of the blanket that's had an unfixable, but insignificant, tear in it ever since you got it, but it never gets any bigger or smaller, so you put that end of the blanket towards your feet when you take a nap and ignore it.

[eclipse]

6 hours ago, Decerd said:

I'd say yes, and most of the times , it's elitist/fans of the older games that give the community the reputation it has. The worst thing I've seen newer fans do is go "I don't know much about the older games." That's it.

You're part of the problem.

5 hours ago, Motendra said:

So what do you do with the peeps that fall into the middle? And by middle, I mean DS era if you can call it that. I know damn well I'm no veteran but those are what i started with and have only been going forward

You. . .defy description, and keep being you.

---

This divide is also present in the Final Fantasy fandom.  New games change things, and those that really liked something-or-other before it was changed will find a way to complain.  Throw in some miscreants who think that it's okay to label large swaths of groups while ignoring that maybe said group has a point, and we get the current state of things.

Want to fight the problem?  Acknowledge that your least favorite FE games did good things for the franchise, and your favorite FE games have flaws.  Neither of them is the best/worst thing to happen for all time.  In the end, they're video games, and while our tastes will be different, we can and should respect those who see things differently.

[Sunwoo]

I mean

There is technically a divide, yes, but it is simultaneously not as bad as people like to exaggerate it being nowadays while being more relevant in more recent years because of apparent Fates favoritism in spin-off games like Warriors and Heroes. It's complicated.

Fates in itself also had that Nohr and Hoshido divide, which I don't really know if it's still as relevant nowadays because I don't pay attention to Fates.

[AnonymousSpeed]

"Nobody hates Fire Emblem more than Fire Emblem fans."

See, the Fire Emblem fanbase is a lot like Protestantism. While there are some basic principles we agree on, there are a multitude of vastly different opinions on the details and how to execute even the most fundamental ideas. Thus, the group is very much divided, but is divided into so many sects that it becomes more convenient to view it as a unified whole of disagreement. Ergo, we are not divided because we are.

#HeWillNotDivideUs

8 hours ago, Roland said:

It wouldn't be a fandom if there wasn't.

2 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

There is a divide, BUT there is one thing that unites us all: our love (read as: hate) of Fire Emblem.

Men of intellect and culture I see.

[Dandy Druid]

6 hours ago, Otts486 said:

You know I sort of spoke about this in another thread so I'm just gonna echo what I said there

The divide is definitely there but like others have said at this point it's more a vocal minority(unless of course you go to the youtube comment section then...) an extremely loud vocal minority but a minority none the less. Though with the recent string of happenings in heroes well I dunno if minority is the right way to put it. Honestly I think the problem lies with IS and their not understanding on what made people like awakening to begin with. Cause when you really think about it if not for fates basically inflating all the stuff the (for lack of a better term) "elitists" "disliked" about awakening then I don't think the divide would be so prevalent today. I mean yeah sure you'd still have a small vocal minority(like every fandom) but they wouldn't be nearly as loud nor as prevalent as they are currently. Cause honestly from what I can see the backlash is mostly towards fates nowadays and less so towards awakening because people got over it and found something new to complain about. 

True. FE Fans like to complain and that's OK. I remember the days when people complained about Radiant Dawn and the DS games on this forum. It's just something the fandom does. Fates will probably stop getting hate and start getting more praise later this year when we're all complaining about Three Houses.

3 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

"Nobody hates Fire Emblem more than Fire Emblem fans."

See, the Fire Emblem fanbase is a lot like Protestantism. While there are some basic principles we agree on, there are a multitude of vastly different opinions on the details and how to execute even the most fundamental ideas. Thus, the group is very much divided, but is divided into so many sects that it becomes more convenient to view it as a unified whole of disagreement. Ergo, we are not divided because we are.

#HeWillNotDivideUs

That's a good way to put it.