Special Heroes Arrive!! Hostile Springs (Jan. 23 ~)

[Shiki]

I love it that we're slowly letting FGO take over.

@Ice Dragon I think Glaceon Mage meant that Saber Diarmuid wasn't really planned for FGO but due to the excessive amount of memes about the E Pluribus Unum trailer DW released him anyway.
And yes, everything you said about him is true.

[Garlyle]

Let guess what's TT Camilla's Weapon.

Something like she gains +2 Atk/Spd/Def/Res for each version of Camilla on your team.

[redlight]

To be fair we discussed FGO as an example of alts. Artria was compared to Camilla and other stuff used as comparison

[GrandeRampel]

21 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Tharja's shtick is that she wears revealing clothes, not that she has a large chest because she actually doesn't.

 

I guess, honestly her boobs are pretty big, just not on Camilla's level.

But if we are gonna argue that Camilla and Kagero are the only 2 characters specifically focused on boobs and the others have the focus on other aspects of their bodies than I also think all lolis shouldn't be lumped together.

A sassy loli like Delthea has different qualities than a more serious one like Myrrh, Maria or Sanaki. And they are all obviously different from literal pre-schoolers like Kana and Fae.

[Magical Glace]

1 hour ago, Magus of Memery said:

I love it that we're slowly letting FGO take over.

@Ice Dragon I think Glaceon Mage meant that Saber Diarmuid wasn't really planned for FGO but due to the excessive amount of memes about the E Pluribus Unum trailer DW released him anyway.
And yes, everything you said about him is true.

Yeah, basically.  Even when he was actually released, DW didn't seem to actually care much, he was kinda hiding on the banner while Iskandar and Waver were in front:

Spoiler

I also already knew the lore stuff, since Diarmuid's like... my sixth favorite Fate character.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Glaceon Mage

[XRay]

9 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

I suppose, but it also feels a bit shortsighted in a way.

A lot of companies are unfortunately like that.

9 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

All I'm saying is that distrust and ill-will are hard to dismiss and will follow them into their future ventures, past Heroes.

It takes more than one game to do that though, and I think our fan base is generally more forgiving than we seem. All will be forgiven or forgotten once Three Houses rolls around if that game is at least satisfactory. I think they have to at least fuck up two games in a row to engrave ire into its fan base. For me personally, the only part of Nintendo that I absolutely despise is Treehouse for butchering the localization of Fates and then having the balls to show their incompetence in translating for Heroes right after.

As long as Intelligent Systems get their act together for Three Houses, their fuck ups in Heroes probably would not even matter. I do wish that they learn to communicate with their fan base better to address concerns that players have with their Summoning Foci. It would at least help more passionate players understand where Intelligent Systems is coming from. As they are now, Intelligent Systems is absolutely crap at handling PR, and I think even a small business in America can do PR a thousand times better.

8 hours ago, DraceEmpressa said:

I kinda think because being apathetic kinda.. stepping on the land mines?

Someone has to step on them for the greater good, might as well be me. I think reducing the echo chamber effect is a good idea; letting more passionate fans know that detached fans also exist may help temper their expectations.

8 hours ago, DraceEmpressa said:

btw, is that true apathetic players are the majority?

I have no clue, but it feels like the developers are acting like apathetic fans are the majority. There have been strong vocal opinions against alts, gender ratio imbalance, Fates saturation, etc. for about a year now, but the only noticeable action taken so far has been an announcement a few months ago last year telling us that Radiant Dawn and Binding Blade Foci are coming.

I wish they would communicate us with more and let fans know why they made the decisions they made, but I am not placing my bets on any Japanese company having a competent PR division. We do not have to look very far at Sony to see how they shot themselves in the foot by downplaying the collaboration between Microsoft and Nintendo in allowing cross play for Fortnite and some other games.

4 hours ago, Azure Sen said:

Also I'd like to point out that a( we know Camilla isn't making them oodles of money anymore because Adrift happened and yet November was one of the lowest grossing months in the game so far according to independent reports and b( this Camilla is free so she doesn't even make them money.

We do not really know how much money New Heroes Foci make compared to Special Heroes Foci. There was a lack of Special Heroes Foci around last November, so there is also a possibility that the lack of Special Heroes Foci was the primary reason for the large dip in revenue.

Edited January 21, 2019 by XRay

[Ice Dragon]

8 minutes ago, XRay said:

As they are now, Intelligent Systems is absolutely crap at handling PR, and I think even a small business in America can do PR a thousand times better.

I think it's because they aren't a small business in America that they are having trouble with PR.

Smaller companies have some advantages in that area, such as having fewer moving parts to coordinate and being more likely to be headed by visionary folk (instead of business-minded folk) who are more likely to understand the modern expectations for communication.

[XRay]

6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I think it's because they aren't a small business in America that they are having trouble with PR.

Smaller companies have some advantages in that area, such as having fewer moving parts to coordinate and being more likely to be headed by visionary folk (instead of business-minded folk) who are more likely to understand the modern expectations for communication.

That is true too. Small business here is dependent on the local community and not having at least decent PR is not an option.

[Anacybele]

3 hours ago, Landmaster said:

Are there tickets for this Banner?

I don't know yet, I was only mentioning them in case there will be.

[Lewyn]

6 hours ago, Landmaster said:

I'd argue there's clearly not a lot of whales who like lolis as opposed to the big breasted women seeing as we get a far less amount of new lolis than the latter (2 Kageros last year for example)~ This is the first alt for Elise and Sakura since 2017~ They clearly don't make IS as much money~

There are more lolis than just Elise and Sakura.  Nowi, how they did Sanaki dirty in the bridal banner, etc.  

As for the loli just being innocently adorable instead of pandering to child predators, yes with Christmas Fae, Halloween Myrrh, Summer and Legendary Tiki sure.  However c'mon, this is a hot springs banner and we all know what hot springs is used to depict in anime and such.  Sexy females we want to see all of.  So that they include Elise and Sakura here is damn disturbing.  

On alts, if something is standard for gacha doesn't mean we should keep quiet and be fine with it.  Never understood this argument, oh this is how it usually is as if that is some sort of excuse or worthwhile defense.  There are a lot of crappy practices and laws and such in history that were 'usual' until someone stood up and protested it.  Even if every other gacha is an alt fiesta doesn't make Heroes being one anymore okay.

If they were going to do Hot springs it could have been Ayra, Sigurd, Ike and Lethe.  There you go sexy males and females who aren't kids and wow Tellius/Judgral seasonals!  You got Ike there which is guaranteed to make bank, after all he won Hero Rises despite being one of the worst choices based on popularity alone.  No of course not, that would be too risky lets go with Fates royals again.

 

 

[Tolvir]

Now, I will say this. Everyone is pointing out IS just not listening, ignoring feedback from the last few months. And I will add this to the fire.

IS obviously plans these banners several months in advance. From what I understand Sakura's JP VA is actually not doing any voice acting right now, as she is studying abroad or something like that. So just on that alone its obvious this banner was planned at least a few months ahead of time. This banner isnt reflecting what IS is currently doing. We wont really know how IS is planning on dealing with feedback until post Anniversary. I do think that is why we got our RD and BB banner announced long before they were due. They didnt just come up with them on the spot, though BB was probably in its early phases. They announced it because they knew what was coming. It was already too late to change it, throwing out voice acted lines, already commissioned art, and schedules entirely because its not going well atm would just make more issues. But they had to say something, so they revealed those 2 banners early.

Of course this still doesnt address why IS thought that 3 Camilla alts in 6 months was a good idea, but thats besides the point. Send feedback, keep talking, especially keep letting the money do the talking. This banner doesnt reflect what they are seeing, this was probably already a finished banner by October, I guarantee it.

[Ottservia]

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Tharja's shtick is that she wears revealing clothes, not that she has a large chest because she actually doesn't.

I don't know about that. I mean if her awakening beach CG dialogue is anything to go by then she most likely has one of the bigger busts in the cast. I'm just saying.

[Ice Dragon]

19 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

However c'mon, this is a hot springs banner and we all know what hot springs is used to depict in anime and such.  Sexy females we want to see all of.

Or the exact subversion of which, as in Mahou Shoujo Ore, or played completely for comedic effect, as in Gabriel Dropout. And you can have young children in the baths with more or less zero erotic intent, such as in Kobayashi-san Chi no Maid Dragon.

You appear to have a very limited view of what purposes tropes can be used for that is self-serving for your argument.

And you seem to believe that pedophiles and pandering to pedophiles is some kind of rampant epidemic. It's getting old.

 

3 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I don't know about that. I mean if her awakening beach CG dialogue is anything to go by then she most likely has one of the bigger busts in the cast. I'm just saying.

Her art in Heroes, her character model in Warriors, and the figure of her by Max Factory (or was it Goodsmile Company?) all give her a rather modest bust size compared to what people seem to think she has.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Ottservia]

13 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Her art in Heroes, her character model in Warriors, and the figure of her by Max Factory (or was it Goodsmile Company?) all give her a rather modest bust size compared to what people seem to think she has.

Yeah I guess that's fair. Though she does seem to have a big chest at least big enough not to fit into certain swimsuits.

[XRay]

11 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I don't know about that. I mean if her awakening beach CG dialogue is anything to go by then she most likely has one of the bigger busts in the cast. I'm just saying.

11 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Her art in Heroes, her character model in Warriors, and the figure of her by Max Factory (or was it Goodsmile Company?) all give her a rather modest bust size compared to what people seem to think she has.

It seems like back then, the major focus was on her butt. And according the website, Good Smile Company is the manufacturer of the figure while Max Factory does the planning/manufacturing, but I am not sure if there is a distinction between being a manufacturer and doing the manufacturing.

[Landmaster]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

There are more lolis than just Elise and Sakura.  Nowi, how they did Sanaki dirty in the bridal banner, etc.  

As for the loli just being innocently adorable instead of pandering to child predators, yes with Christmas Fae, Halloween Myrrh, Summer and Legendary Tiki sure.  However c'mon, this is a hot springs banner and we all know what hot springs is used to depict in anime and such.  Sexy females we want to see all of.  So that they include Elise and Sakura here is damn disturbing.  

You're not helping your argument using Nowi since her last alt was also in 2017. Sanaki also has only had one alt (which was weird but not some kind of pedo-bait) that wasn't even the most popular one on that Banner, Tharja was (again, busty). The Dragon Lolis you say yourself aren't pandery, so I'm still missing how you're trying to suggest there's a large amount of whales who pull for Lolis when there's nothing really to suggest that~

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Or the exact subversion of which, as in Mahou Shoujo Ore, or played completely for comedic effect, as in Gabriel Dropout. And you can have young children in the baths with more or less zero erotic intent, such as in Kobayashi-san Chi no Maid Dragon.

You appear to have a very limited view of what purposes tropes can be used for that is self-serving for your argument.

And you seem to believe that pedophiles and pandering to pedophiles is some kind of rampant epidemic. It's getting old.

 

 

Pandering to lolicons/pedophiles is an epidemic in Japan certainly.  

Sure it could be for comedic effect, or maybe just maybe the game with child slave Nowi with hardly any clothes for Halloween or in her normal version and now a banner with Elise and Sakura which could be married off and have children in their game could actually be something less innocent.  What is getting old is this argument though.  If you want to believe Heroes is completely perfect and never does anything wrong sure one could stretch and make arguments to support that.  When they have a completely naked Nowi or something on a banner, one can say there is nothing wrong with nudity and it is innocent and all that.  Sure, or we can look at what the actual motive is.  

[eclipse]

. . .NOT THE FUCKING PEDO THING AGAIN.

Look, unless you're drooling over Elise/Sakura that way (and if you are, please keep it to yourself), this isn't relevant.

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Pandering to lolicons/pedophiles is an epidemic in Japan certainly.  

I would ask for a source to your claims because you have yet to substantiate them, but this subject is already getting on people's nerves.

[Lewyn]

7 minutes ago, eclipse said:

. . .NOT THE FUCKING PEDO THING AGAIN.

Look, unless you're drooling over Elise/Sakura that way (and if you are, please keep it to yourself), this isn't relevant.

Okay I won't mention it anymore myself, besides which the argument has happened many times before and people are mostly decided either way and can't be moved from their position.

[Baldrick]

Anyway, re: burnout, I think CYL3 will be a good gauge as to how the wider fanbase feels about Fates right now. It should be happening soon?

[Medeus]

6 hours ago, XRay said:

A lot of companies are unfortunately like that.

It takes more than one game to do that though, and I think our fan base is generally more forgiving than we seem. All will be forgiven or forgotten once Three Houses rolls around if that game is at least satisfactory. I think they have to at least fuck up two games in a row to engrave ire into its fan base. For me personally, the only part of Nintendo that I absolutely despise is Treehouse for butchering the localization of Fates and then having the balls to show their incompetence in translating for Heroes right after.

As long as Intelligent Systems get their act together for Three Houses, their fuck ups in Heroes probably would not even matter. I do wish that they learn to communicate with their fan base better to address concerns that players have with their Summoning Foci. It would at least help more passionate players understand where Intelligent Systems is coming from. As they are now, Intelligent Systems is absolutely crap at handling PR, and I think even a small business in America can do PR a thousand times better.

Someone has to step on them for the greater good, might as well be me. I think reducing the echo chamber effect is a good idea; letting more passionate fans know that detached fans also exist may help temper their expectations.

I have no clue, but it feels like the developers are acting like apathetic fans are the majority. There have been strong vocal opinions against alts, gender ratio imbalance, Fates saturation, etc. for about a year now, but the only noticeable action taken so far has been an announcement a few months ago last year telling us that Radiant Dawn and Binding Blade Foci are coming.

I wish they would communicate us with more and let fans know why they made the decisions they made, but I am not placing my bets on any Japanese company having a competent PR division. We do not have to look very far at Sony to see how they shot themselves in the foot by downplaying the collaboration between Microsoft and Nintendo in allowing cross play for Fortnite and some other games.

We do not really know how much money New Heroes Foci make compared to Special Heroes Foci. There was a lack of Special Heroes Foci around last November, so there is also a possibility that the lack of Special Heroes Foci was the primary reason for the large dip in revenue.

Having been a part of a few fanbases, sometimes one fuck up is all some people need. Some circles of Metroid fans for instance refuse to forgive Sakamoto and Tanabe for Other M and Federation Force respectively despite the former going on to work on a much better received game and the latter working on an anticipated one. Forgiveness is not a virtue that all hold and the Fire Emblem fanbase has not proven themselves to be any different considering Fates is still hung over IS/Nintendo's head, so Heroes stroking the fires itself with its constant alts is probably not doing it any favors. 

Three Houses can help district from Heroes' problems, but if issues like the lack of communication and slow response do continue as they are it may not going to matter much in the long run. It doesn't take much to lose people's goodwill, and if IS doesn't find a way to address it then that may cause a bleeding out of its fanbase and profits that they won't be able to patch up. 

[XRay]

40 minutes ago, Medeus said:

Having been a part of a few fanbases, sometimes one fuck up is all some people need. Some circles of Metroid fans for instance refuse to forgive Sakamoto and Tanabe for Other M and Federation Force respectively despite the former going on to work on a much better received game and the latter working on an anticipated one. Forgiveness is not a virtue that all hold and the Fire Emblem fanbase has not proven themselves to be any different considering Fates is still hung over IS/Nintendo's head, so Heroes stroking the fires itself with its constant alts is probably not doing it any favors. 

Three Houses can help district from Heroes' problems, but if issues like the lack of communication and slow response do continue as they are it may not going to matter much in the long run. It doesn't take much to lose people's goodwill, and if IS doesn't find a way to address it then that may cause a bleeding out of its fanbase and profits that they won't be able to patch up. 

Most fans do not dump a series over one game and one fuck up is no where near enough to destroy a popular series. As far as I know, while Metroid: Samus Returns did not sell a crazy amount of copies, half a million copies sold seems like a decent amount and it was well received.

I honestly do not see Intelligent Systems improving their communication skills and response times any time soon. They have almost two years to improve their workflow and they still drag their ass anywhere between 6 months to a year to create a Foci. And forget about communication and PR; I do not think Japanese corporations in general will ever match the same level of competence in that area compared to western corporations.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

12 hours ago, Water Mage said:

Guess I didn’t understand the whole Gacha and alt culture yet. It’s just that she so many characters based off her, I thought of them as alts. Guess it would more apt to say Saber is more like Pikachu than Camilla? As in, there the pikaclones and things like Detective Pikachu, Pikachu Libre and the other ORAS costumes. But honestly, while I normal for every franchise to have cash cow, Saber is kinda insane as far cash cows go.

Artoria is practically PIkachu, yes. I don't think any character in Fate can qualify as their Camilla, Nero comes close i think, but Nero only had 3 variants so far . Septem dont exist

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

23 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I'll pull a little bit for Sakura, then forget about this I guess.

It's kinda funny how much work they made Miyuki Sawashiro do before she went on maternity leave. At least, I assume that's when they prepared this.

Huh i just learned Sawashiro is Sakura