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18 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

@affinities without hacking: Eirika getting Gleipnir was even more sketchy and that got through so it doesn’t really matter. 

That has nothing to do with hacking, and the weapon choice makes plenty of sense based on lore.

I don't remember if there was any specific mention of Lyon teaching Eirika how to use magic in the original game, but it would not be unexpected if he did, as he visited the Renais twins not unfrequently, and after the war, it would have made sense that Grado's Sacred Twins would be given to Renais for safekeeping.

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Oh boy, glad to see this has been about how I expected it. Anyhoo, hurrah for the Micaiah fans, I certainly wasn't expecting that, and grats to the Alm bois too. Personally I'm hoping we either get Eliwood dressed as Roy to go with Brave Roy, or Old Man Eliwood considering the man supposedly would have completely turned the tide of the war if he hadn't been sick(plus he was basically the only game character ever to survive the Incurable Cough of Death, that's got to count for something).

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2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I still think Alm needs to be a red bow if he's red. We don't even have a red bow in the game yet!

colored bows are terrible though. I really hope not. In general the Idea of introducing colored bows/daggers was very meh. They have their benefits since they can play the Weapon Triangle and arent affected by Bow Breaker (yet) but i would have rather have them fix the problem those colorless classes had in the first place!

My guess:

Alm - Sword user
Eliwood - Lance user
Camilla - Axe user
Micaiah - Stave user

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1 minute ago, Hilda said:

colored bows are terrible though. I really hope not. In general the Idea of introducing colored bows/daggers was very meh. They have their benefits since they can play the Weapon Triangle and arent affected by Bow Breaker (yet) but i would have rather have them fix the problem those colorless classes had in the first place!

Except why add colored bows but only use two of the three colors? That makes no sense. We have two blue bows and two green bows and yet no red bow. So...why IS?

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1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Except why add colored bows but only use two of the three colors? That makes no sense. We have two blue bows and two green bows and yet no red bow. So...why IS?

because noone cares for colored bows, that simple. Have you encountered any of the colored bows/dagger users alot on the battle field ecxept for Legendary Lucina? I sure havent unless they were bonus units and Lucina is being used because of her Assist skill thats it. Well to be fair the 2 classes are underused anyway unless its Brave Lyn or Eir.

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2 minutes ago, Hilda said:

because noone cares for colored bows, that simple. Have you encountered any of the colored bows/dagger users alot on the battle field ecxept for Legendary Lucina? I sure havent unless they were bonus units and Lucina is being used because of her Assist skill thats it. Well to be fair the 2 classes are underused anyway unless its Brave Lyn or Eir.

So? that's not the point. It still doesn't make sense to implement a red bow category and then not use it. That's a waste of resources. And since NY Fjorm is recent, IS still cares about them.

Edited by Anacybele
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2 hours ago, Hilda said:

because noone cares for colored bows, that simple. Have you encountered any of the colored bows/dagger users alot on the battle field ecxept for Legendary Lucina? I sure havent unless they were bonus units and Lucina is being used because of her Assist skill thats it. Well to be fair the 2 classes are underused anyway unless its Brave Lyn or Eir.

I’ve seen plenty of colored bows and daggers in AR. I think the only exception is Lyn because IS screwed her over hard (w̶a̶i̶t̶ ̶w̶h̶a̶t̶?̶)And like Ana said, IS obviously still cares seeing as NY!Fjorm is a recent addition not to mention the new Elise and Hinoka.

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3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I still think Alm needs to be a red bow if he's red. We don't even have a red bow in the game yet!

If he's a bow, I think that he will be blue or green, but I don't think that he will be red. But yeah Alm red bow could be a really cool thing!

How I see the things now:

Alm: Blue Bow / Red bow

Eliwood: Red tome / Lance

Micaiah: Staff

Camilla: Green Axe (But I want that the "brave power" awakens her Dusk Dragon blood)

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4 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I'm thinking Eliwood is for sure getting the Elbert treatment, and I think he's gonna end up being a lance unit. Camilla will be an axe unit, Micaiah a staff unit, and Alm a sword unit.

Wait, so you mean we're getting mustache Eliwood?

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3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

So? that's not the point. It still doesn't make sense to implement a red bow category and then not use it. That's a waste of resources. And since NY Fjorm is recent, IS still cares about them.

Red bows are underwhelming because it lacks the consistent power of colorless bows and it lacks the raw power of red tomes' Rauđrblade.

If they want to put in a red bow unit, it would be better to release that unit in another Focus rather than releasing it in the Brave Focus. Having your favorite unit be a dud would just make people frustrated and disappointed if it does not outright piss them off.

If they want to release a red bow unit in the Brave Focus and please people, they need to give that unit something crazy like GA!Lucina's Future Vision. If they just give the red bow unit something half assed like AOTB!Celica's underwhelming and crappy version of Bold Fighter (Royal Sword and Double Lion), that is not going to sit well with some players.

NYOFAI!Fjorm may be recent, but she sucks compared to ASS!Takumi. Having trouble taking down red units makes her damage output inconsistent, and being good against blue units is unnecessary and it is not a good enough pro to offset the red weakness.

1 hour ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I’ve seen plenty of colored bows and daggers in AR.

The only ranged physical color unit I see often is GA!Lucina, and I think that is primarily due to Future Vision that significantly increases her mobility and movement range. I rarely see LOTW!Lyn, Ylgr, Flora, NYOFAI!Fjorm, HS!Sakura, and HS!Hinoka, if I see them at all.

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On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 1:11 PM, TheWildestCat said:

I really don't understand why Nintendo is so stubborn. I'm not trying to be a hater right now, but I think Nintendo might've done the Camilla alt for her to get a brave form. If that's the case then people would really try to get a +10 Camilla. But unless you are lady luck herself, you will have to buy a lot of orbs. I'm not trying to be one of those people, but does anyone else find it weird that they made the hostile springs during CYL 3 and by the time Hostile springs end, then the heroes will be selected. I don't know that is my opinion.

I don't know how I called Camilla winning granted that this isn't the true reason but still. Then again my luck does like to be random. I don't know how I didn't pull Julia for today's summon that has Seliph, Julia, and Dierdre. But then again I got Myrrh a few days ago so no more pity rate but i'm not complaining about the unit. 

Edited by TheWildestCat
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I want a red bow eventually, but yeah, I'd rather it be a seasonal. I'm really looking forward to Brave Alm and I think it'd be a waste to make it his weapon there.

The whole concept of colored bow Alm was from back when colored bows were just a legendary thing and legendary Alm seemed like a good way to add one. It's no longer relevant, and never would have made sense with CYL.

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5 hours ago, XRay said:

Red bows are underwhelming because it lacks the consistent power of colorless bows and it lacks the raw power of red tomes' Rauđrblade.

If they want to put in a red bow unit, it would be better to release that unit in another Focus rather than releasing it in the Brave Focus. Having your favorite unit be a dud would just make people frustrated and disappointed if it does not outright piss them off.

If they want to release a red bow unit in the Brave Focus and please people, they need to give that unit something crazy like GA!Lucina's Future Vision. If they just give the red bow unit something half assed like AOTB!Celica's underwhelming and crappy version of Bold Fighter (Royal Sword and Double Lion), that is not going to sit well with some players.

NYOFAI!Fjorm may be recent, but she sucks compared to ASS!Takumi. Having trouble taking down red units makes her damage output inconsistent, and being good against blue units is unnecessary and it is not a good enough pro to offset the red weakness.

The only ranged physical color unit I see often is GA!Lucina, and I think that is primarily due to Future Vision that significantly increases her mobility and movement range. I rarely see LOTW!Lyn, Ylgr, Flora, NYOFAI!Fjorm, HS!Sakura, and HS!Hinoka, if I see them at all.

You don't keep the Royal Sword on Celica. You give her Firesweep and watch her go to down by attacking four times and charging Galeforce on her first attack.

But that aside, no weapon type is inherently underwhelming. Give a good enough weapon or skill regardless of colour and it will make a valuable units. Bowcina is proof of that. Your assessment is basically like saying sword units suck by taking OG Lyn as the metric by which all swords are judged. I've always been against coloured bows, but now that they exist they might as well go and make at least one red one.

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6 hours ago, XRay said:

something half assed like AOTB!Celica's underwhelming and crappy version of Bold Fighter (Royal Sword and Double Lion), that is not going to sit well with some players.

I'm still real fucking salty about that. Like why the hell couldn't Celica be the staff cav? If anything, she's got more basis for it between Conrad and Nomah. And I still stand by Ronnie making more sense as a red tome cav if they wanted to reference Xander and Bruno. But nooo, they had to go a play favorites. That wasn't even a Reinhardt Leif situation where they clearly out more thought and care into Leif, but Rein ended up a little better because, once again, they underestimated braves on a speed dump unit. Ugh!

My bitching aside, I can't say colored bows and daggers are my favorite thing in the world, but I don't know that they're terrible. I mean, I barely see any, but I barely see any bows or daggers unless it's Brave Lyn or the person clearly just likes the unit in the first place. I'd really not care if I never saw another one, but tI don't hink they're doomed to being garbage forever.

But holy shit if they pull the same crap with Alm or Micaiah and don't even try to make them as good or better than Eliwood or Camilla, I'm gonna fucking flip. And I was happier Eliwood won than Alm, and Camilla seems like she could be more fun than Micaiah anyway.

Edited by bottlegnomes
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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

You don't keep the Royal Sword on Celica. You give her Firesweep and watch her go to down by attacking four times and charging Galeforce on her first attack.

She is still underwhelming. That may make her the cream of melee infantry units, but that does not make her the cream of the Order of Heroes.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

But that aside, no weapon type is inherently underwhelming. Give a good enough weapon or skill regardless of colour and it will make a valuable units. Bowcina is proof of that.

GA!Lucina is proof that Future Vision is good, not proof that colored ranged physical Weapons are good. That is what I said on how to make an underwhelming unit good by giving them powerful skills. Future Vision does not make colored ranged physical Weapons as a class good because it is restricted to only one unit. Even if you loosen that restriction, mages and colorless archers are still superior since they can put it to use for a much greater effect.

If they want to make colored ranged physical Weapon on par with colorless archers and mages, then they need to give colored ranged physical units exclusive access to powerful skills. Colored ranged physical Weapon users right now do not have access to the raw power of Blade tomes to offset their consistency issue, so they have the worst of both worlds.

41 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

My bitching aside, I can't say colored bows and daggers are my favorite thing in the world, but I don't know that they're terrible. I mean, I barely see any, but I barely see any bows or daggers unless it's Brave Lyn or the person clearly just likes the unit in the first place. I'd really not care if I never saw another one, but tI don't hink they're doomed to being garbage forever.

Maybe I was exaggerating a little about them being crap and they certainly are usable, but they are very underwhelming and disappointing when compared their peers. The mere fact that mages and colorless archers exist means that colored ranged physical Weapons will always be inferior unless they have skills that are exclusive to them.

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12 minutes ago, XRay said:

GA!Lucina is proof that Future Vision is good, not proof that colored ranged physical Weapons are good. That is what I said on how to make an underwhelming unit good by giving them powerful skills. Future Vision does not make colored ranged physical Weapons as a class good because it is restricted to only one unit. Even if you loosen that restriction, mages and colorless archers are still superior since they can put it to use for a much greater effect.

Coloured bows deal more damage to 25% of weapons and deal less damage to 25% of weapons. That's the only difference between them and coloured bows. That makes them less consistent than Colourless bows, but that doesn't make them worse than colourless bows. It might not suit your playstyle and you could even say they're less useful, but a weapon having a net advantage and a net disadvantage balances itself out. That's how rock paper scissors work. To believe otherwise would be to suggest that colourless weapons are better under all circumstances and thus the weapon triangle shouldn't even be in the game as all it does is nerf units. The thing that would make red coloured bows objectively worse than other weapon types would be that there are less green units in the game for it to be effective on (though there's still a good deal of good green units in the game). Vs mages they hit defense and deal effective damage to fliers. I think tomes in general are better than bows due to being more effective damage dealers, but bows, regardless of their colour still fulfill a niche in the game (and to reiterate, I don't even like coloured bows as a concept).

But all that is moot, as class is secondary to unit. If they want to make a Brave Alm that's a red bow user an a great unit all round, they absolutely can.

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50 minutes ago, Jotari said:

but a weapon having a net advantage and a net disadvantage balances itself out. That's how rock paper scissors work. To believe otherwise would be to suggest that colourless weapons are better under all circumstances

For a Player Phase unit, it does not. Consistency is almost always better to inconsistency. ASS!Takumi has no trouble taking out blue units, so NYOFAI!Fjorm having an advantage against blues is moot point and her pathetic damage to red units makes her a worse unit overall.

On the calculator against Hard List enemies without buffs, NYOFAI!Fjorm has better performance for being able to kill blue foes outright, but once you factor in buffs and enemy merges, ASS!Takumi quickly outpaces her as buffs scale much better on a colorless unit than a colored unit. Against the Full List, NYOFAI!Fjorm does not have better performance even without buffs.

Challenger List:

Spoiler

CHALLENGER LIST  
Takumi (SS) (5* +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Life and Death 3  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
 
Fjorm (NYW) (5* +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Life and Death 3  
S: Heavy Blade 3 

 

50 minutes ago, Jotari said:

thus the weapon triangle shouldn't even be in the game as all it does is nerf units.

Colored Player Phase nukes are nerfed due to being color. Mages offset it with Blade tomes. If they release a colorless with mage with decent stats and access to Blade tomes, that will make every colored mage obsolete except for mages with really powerful exclusive tomes like Celica, Ophelia, and Reinhardt.

However, being colored is a boon to enemy phase tanks because you can force the AI to battle disadvantageous match ups.

Edited by XRay
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3 minutes ago, XRay said:

For a Player Phase unit, it does not. Consistency is almost always better to inconsistency. ASS!Takumi has no trouble taking out blue units, so NYOFAI!Fjorm having an advantage against blues is moot point and her pathetic damage to red units makes her a worse unit overall.

Personally I think having the weapon triangle is an overall bonus to a player phase unit than not. I'm in a weird situation where my 2 most invested units are both blue, but normally if your two offensive units are colored and different colors the fact that you can pick and chose your fights means that both of them together can get away with less optimal spreads than either of them alone.

 

That is, while their raw numbers would be worse, the fact that the weapon triangle makes their kills not overlap means that the teamwide coverage is a lot better.

 

Mind, a lot of my rating disagreements with other people steam from the fact that I don't even expect my units to fight every map. If I have a shitty red vs. a blue spam team then I'm fine with that red being a repo-bot for the map, because that would be all that's needed, since presumably there would be a shitty green on my team to carry me for that map.

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15 minutes ago, XRay said:

For a Player Phase unit, it does not. Consistency is almost always better to inconsistency. ASS!Takumi has no trouble taking out blue units, so NYOFAI!Fjorm having an advantage against blues is moot point and her pathetic damage to red units makes her a worse unit overall.

On the calculator against Hard List enemies without buffs, NYOFAI!Fjorm has better performance for being able to kill blue foes outright, but once you factor in buffs and enemy merges, ASS!Takumi quickly outpaces her as buffs scale much better on a colorless unit than a colored unit. Against the Full List, NYOFAI!Fjorm does not have better performance even without buffs.

Challenger List:

  Reveal hidden contents

CHALLENGER LIST  
Takumi (SS) (5* +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Life and Death 3  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
 
Fjorm (NYW) (5* +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Life and Death 3  
S: Heavy Blade 3 

 

Colored Player Phase nukes are nerfed due to being color. Mages offset it with Blade tomes. If they release a colorless with mage with decent stats and access to Blade tomes, that will make every colored mage obsolete except for mages with really powerful exclusive tomes like Celica, Ophelia, and Reinhardt.

However, being colored is a boon to enemy phase tanks because you can force the AI to battle disadvantageous match ups.

That's still make the unit more useful, not better. You're looking at this the wrong way. A coloured bow can be used to more effectively deal with another coloured bow unit than a colourless one can. Colourless units can more safely engage with more units, but the coloured bow user is still contributing something to the game by having an advantage that the coloured unit lacks. Think of your argument another way. Armoured Units have a better BST than infantry and much preferred in the meta game. Do you think infantry shouldn't exist in the game at all because of that? Because that's essentially your argument against red bows being a thing.

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20 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That's still make the unit more useful, not better. You're looking at this the wrong way. A coloured bow can be used to more effectively deal with another coloured bow unit than a colourless one can. Colourless units can more safely engage with more units, but the coloured bow user is still contributing something to the game by having an advantage that the coloured unit lacks.

Colored bows as a concept is kind of like Triangle Adept. They have their niche and uses, but they are something a well built team can do without. They are useful as counters and side units, but they are definitely not the main combat units for many players because better option exists.

Consistency matters. That is why you do not see Blade mages running around with Triangle Adept unless it is to shut down Surtr or something.

21 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Colourless units can more safely engage with more units

Colorless and colored bows can both safely engage with foes using Firesweep Bows. The problem is that colored bows waste a lot of their damage output on overkill. Overkill is nice and all if it does not significantly negatively impact your effectiveness against other foes, but if having overkill costs you performance against other foes, that makes the unit inconsistent and worse off as a Player Phase unit.

Here is a simple example:
4 enemies each with a different color got 5 HP and 5 Def each.
ASS!Takumi and NYOFAI!Fjorm both have 10 Atk.
While both archers would both have the same total damage output, NYOFAI!Fjorm is objectively worse because her damage output against blue and red foes is inefficiently distributed, with the red unit surviving with 2 HP (5HP-[10Atk*(0.8)-5Def]) and the 2 overkill damage on the blue unit being an absolute waste and completely pointless.

13 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Think of your argument another way. Armoured Units have a better BST than infantry and much preferred in the meta game. Do you think infantry shouldn't exist in the game at all because of that? Because that's essentially your argument against red bows being a thing.

My argument is not that these units should not exist. My argument is that Alm should not be a red bow unit because that will just make him a dud like AOTB!Celica unless they plan to give him something bonkers like Future Vision.

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

Here is a simple example:
4 enemies each with a different color got 5 HP and 5 Def each.
ASS!Takumi and NYOFAI!Fjorm both have 10 Atk.
While both archers would both have the same total damage output, NYOFAI!Fjorm is objectively worse because her damage output against blue and red foes is inefficiently distributed, with the red unit surviving with 2 HP (5HP-[10Atk*(0.8)-5Def]) and the 2 overkill damage on the blue unit being an absolute waste and completely pointless.

Here is another simple example to show just how easy it is to skew the numbers in favor of my argument:

4 enemies each with a different color have 6 HP and 5 Def each.

Summer Takumi and New Year Fjorm both have 10 Atk and can't double.

Summer Takumi takes 8 rounds of combat to kill all 4 enemies. New Year Fjorm takes 7 rounds of combat because she still kills the red enemy in 2 rounds of combat, but kills the blue enemy in 1.

 

9 minutes ago, Xenovia said:

Ass Takumi.  Who is this fanservice for?

This is exactly what I think of every time he says it.

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