Choose Your Legends 3

[XRay]

1 minute ago, Tybrosion said:

A lot can be said of Surtr, but that is absolutely not one of them as far as I'm concerned...not even close.

I have pretty low standards in terms of villains. None of the Fire Emblem villains made me feel as much emotion as Surtr did, so for me, Surtr is the best villain in my opinion because I hate him the most.

I have not seen Hel much yet, but she would probably be up there too with Surtr for touching Sharena if the spoilers in the intro movie are correct.

[Yexin]

3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

No, I'm not going to respond to that wall of text.  I suggest reading what I quoted from you for the second half.  I cut that quote down for a reason.

it looks like a wall of thext, but that's just because i splitted your post in many little parts

the part of the post i manually wrote is actually pretty small

btw i guess it's ok for you not to read a post from the person you're discussing with

4 minutes ago, eclipse said:

As for THIS.  Believe it or not, it takes work to keep a place running half-decently, and that means calling people out on their bullshit - in this case, you.  I understand a complaint or three, but yours has gone on for quite a while.  What do you expect to accomplish with all of this?

i never said it doesn't take a lot of hard work

so what i think is bullshit, alright, good to know at least

i don't want to accomplish anything but expressing my opinions, i don't think it's forbidden or anything

but if i'm such an untolerable nuisance, i wonder why i'm not already banned or something

i don't want to argue nor anything, i just don't feel guilty of anything, i don't think anyone actually felt hurt by my post but you

btw might as well cut this short, pretty sure nobody wants to see two people discussing like this

see you guys when three houses releases, bye

[Sunwoo]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's not the point, though.

You were presenting the fact that Camilla now has a version of every color as a matter of oneupsmanship compared to other characters with alts, but Lyn had Camilla beat by almost 9 months and Xander (who you forgot about) had Camilla beat by more than 5 months.

Even if you exclude colorless, Xander still had Camilla beat for all three triangle colors by over 11 months.

The metric of having more colors of alts is a meaningless metric.

Shrug. Fair enough on that. However, I do feel like Camilla has never really had a bad alt, whereas Xander had his spring version, who was considered bad even back then, and while Brave Lyn is great I think I heard people saying Legendary Lyn was one of the weaker legendaries. Which is why I thought she was well off even without having a colorless alt, and why Xander is still held back a bit.

I also purposely excluded Xander because he wasn't a CYL winner, but it is odd that he has more favoritism than his own brother, who has always been more popular.

[Baldrick]

20 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

You were presenting the fact that Camilla now has a version of every color as a matter of oneupsmanship compared to other characters with alts, but Lyn had Camilla beat by almost 9 months and Xander (who you forgot about) had Camilla beat by more than 5 months.

She didn't mention Xander because he's never done that well on CYL, which makes his deluge of  versions even more egregious IMO. I can at least acknowledge that Camilla is popular.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Baldrick

[eclipse]

5 minutes ago, Yexin said:

it looks like a wall of thext, but that's just because i splitted your post in many little parts

the part of the post i manually wrote is actually pretty small

btw i guess it's ok for you not to read a post from the person you're discussing with

i never said it doesn't take a lot of hard work

so what i think is bullshit, alright, good to know at least

i don't want to accomplish anything but expressing my opinions, i don't think it's forbidden or anything

but if i'm such an untolerable nuisance, i wonder why i'm not already banned or something

i don't want to argue nor anything, i just don't feel guilty of anything, i don't think anyone actually felt hurt by my post but you

btw might as well cut this short, pretty sure nobody wants to see two people discussing like this

see you guys when three houses releases, bye

Cut the passive-aggressive shit.  It's not cool.

Also, if you think I ban people on a whim, you have no idea what a healthy online community looks like.  Seriously, what the hell kind of response is that?

[Ottservia]

18 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

A lot can be said of Surtr, but that is absolutely not one of them as far as I'm concerned...not even close.

Put him alongside most other villains from across the series, and he becomes a complete embarrassment in comparison. He's literally just Garon's Alolan form, and we all know how he's regarded as a villain.

actually I'd argue that surtr is a far better villain than Garon could ever dream of being. I won't speak of it here as I've made a thread about it detailing my full thoughts but the short of it is that I feel Surtr is a decent villain that isn't fully realized due to the lackluster characters around him.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Ottservia

[Tybrosion]

18 minutes ago, XRay said:

I have pretty low standards in terms of villains. None of the Fire Emblem villains made me feel as much emotion as Surtr did, so for me, Surtr is the best villain in my opinion because I hate him the most.

Let me guess, at least half the reason you hate him so much traces back to the deaths of Gunnthra and Laegjarn, right?

8 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

actually I'd argue that surtr is a far better villain than Garon could ever dream of being. I won't speak of it here as I've made a thread about it detailing my full thoughts but the short of it is that I feel Surtr is a decent villain that isn't fully realized due to the lackluster characters around him.

Yeah I believe I saw that thread...I still completely disagree, sorry. You could put Flame Hyenard from Mega Man X7 (of BURN TO THE GROUND infamy) in Surtr's place, and nothing would change as far as I'm concerned. And even if he is actually better than Garon, being better than the bottom of the barrel isn't exactly a glowing accomplishment.

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Let me guess, at least half the reason you hate him so much traces back to the deaths of Gunnthra and Laegjarn, right?

About 90% of it. He is also too cocky for his own good and does not realize he is standing before me, a Great Summoner, so I guess that is where the rest of the 10% goes. He got the balls to call me weak when he is the one who has been hiding behind plot armor this whole time.

[Anacybele]

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

In other words, once Ike is added as a seasonal, he's gonna break the game in half.

lol, I was thinking more along the lines of his design and dialogue, but that's definitely a possiblity too. Could even be all three things!

[YotsuMaboroshi]

2 hours ago, eclipse said:

Absolutely not.  Every single character I voted for so far isn't in the game.  At most, I will throw a vote Marth's way.  Once.

TBF, even if they aren't in the game yet, anyone that actually wins will always get an alt.  There's probably some influence on character selection later in the year (Farfetched/Brave Redux), but the actual voting is to determine who gets Brave Hero alts.  I think if someone who isn't in the game actually managed to win, we might end up with a Charlotte/Noire situation where the Brave version becomes playable before the regular version.

[Ice Dragon]

45 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Shrug. Fair enough on that. However, I do feel like Camilla has never really had a bad alt, whereas Xander had his spring version, who was considered bad even back then, and while Brave Lyn is great I think I heard people saying Legendary Lyn was one of the weaker legendaries. Which is why I thought she was well off even without having a colorless alt, and why Xander is still held back a bit.

New Year Camilla didn't make much of a dent since she was already overshadowed at release by Elincia, who had Amiti to her name. Granted, she was never considered bad, but she was pretty much forgotten immediately and rendered obsolete by all subsequent red fliers. Summer Camilla never really had much fanfare due to only being slightly better than Summer Corrin in the same role, and Adrift Camilla was released almost immediately following Aversa, who is one of the best free characters in the game.

Spring Xander has actually improved with time simply due to the fact that lances now have more options for his stat spread. He's still not great, though, but one of my friends pretty much had double Xander carry him through the first year of PvE content and then some.

Legendary Lyn is generally mentioned to be weak simply because her kit doesn't work well in the Arena. She is one of the better tanks in Aether Raids and PvE content where ranged tanks are much more valuable. Guard Bow is one of the best weapons for ranged tanking in the game, and she really only competes against Faye (who trades Spd for more bulk) for the role.

Xander's versions have mostly been hit or miss, but I think Lyn's had better consistency than Camilla. (Though no one's had as much consistency as Hector, if you really want to bring up consistency in alt quality.)

 

41 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

She didn't mention Xander because he's never done that well on CYL, which makes his deluge of  versions even more egregious IMO. I can at least acknowledge that Camilla is popular.

"Strange", maybe, but not "egregious".

[Etrurian emperor]

Surtr is indeed better than Garon. Not that its particularly hard but there is a key difference between the two. Surtr might be overstaying his welcome but he's exactly what the plot requires him to be. Surtr is not the final villain but a brutish conqueror with others pulling the strings and he's also a villain from a Mobile game. There is no reason to expect Surtr to be deep or all that interesting. In contrast Garon is all the things that Fates requires him NOT to be. He's so cartoonishly evil that Nohr immediately becomes the inferior choice in a setting that should be morally grey to justify Corrin having to chose and every time he opens his mouth he undermines Xander's Camus tendencies. 

That said Surtr still isn't good. Being better than Garon is easy but outside of that very uneven comparison he falls flat. Surtr is easy to hate and even a bit intimidating but he also lacks any meaningful personality trait beyond that and he doesn't have a meaningful connection to any character in the story. Veronica and Loki at least have some personality traits and some relation to other characters but Surtr has nothing aside from being evil. Even by the low standards of mobile games that doesn't hold up. 

 

[Anacybele]

Spring Xander isn't that bad. I just turned him into a nuke for reds with a T-Adept build and he does his job fine. He also has pretty good Def, though admittedly, mine is +Def.

[Sunwoo]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

New Year Camilla didn't make much of a dent since she was already overshadowed at release by Elincia, who had Amiti to her name. Granted, she was never considered bad, but she was pretty much forgotten immediately and rendered obsolete by all subsequent red fliers. Summer Camilla never really had much fanfare due to only being slightly better than Summer Corrin in the same role, and Adrift Camilla was released almost immediately following Aversa, who is one of the best free characters in the game.

Spring Xander has actually improved with time simply due to the fact that lances now have more options for his stat spread. He's still not great, though, but one of my friends pretty much had double Xander carry him through the first year of PvE content and then some.

Legendary Lyn is generally mentioned to be weak simply because her kit doesn't work well in the Arena. She is one of the better tanks in Aether Raids and PvE content where ranged tanks are much more valuable. Guard Bow is one of the best weapons for ranged tanking in the game, and she really only competes against Faye (who trades Spd for more bulk) for the role.

Xander's versions have mostly been hit or miss, but I think Lyn's had better consistency than Camilla. (Though no one's had as much consistency as Hector, if you really want to bring up consistency in alt quality.)

I get that Camilla's various alts may not have had fanfare because of other characters of the same movement and weapon combination (including flying dagger Camilla and Eir), but that still doesn't change the fact that none of them were ever considered "bad".

I can't really debate much on spring Xander and legendary Lyn because I don't have them and have never really had an opportunity to use them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like the general opinion of the fanbase is that none of Camilla's alts are "bad", even if not the absolute best for their type, whereas spring Xander is (or at some point was) considered bad, and Legendary Lyn as she comes by default does not really work for what she wants to do.

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like the general opinion of the fanbase is that none of Camilla's alts are "bad", even if not the absolute best for their type, whereas spring Xander is (or at some point was) considered bad, and Legendary Lyn as she comes by default does not really work for what she wants to do.

Vanilla Camilla was below average until she got her unique weapon due to her low Atk and Spd stats (30/32 offenses are pretty bad) and her defensive stats distributed suboptimally prior to the buff to dragons.

Spring Xander is pretty bad. Better than before, but still bad. Still gets the job done, though, as the best mixed tank lance cavalry in the game. It's just that that role is more useful in PvE than PvP, and PvE performance is rarely rated. (And he's a seasonal, so it's easier to just build Jagen instead.)

Legendary Lyn's only necessary adjustment is to switch out Desperation for either Quick Riposte or Dull Ranged. In PvE, Laws of Sacae and the Distant Def 3 Sacred Seal are more than enough for most content (especially if you're actually buffing her, unlike me). Guard Bow is only there to bunker down in Aether Raids since she has the advantage over tanks like Surtr and Fae of being able to clear structures on the other sides of walls to open squares for the enemy to attack from by herself.

[Mackc2]

2 hours ago, Hekselka said:

Yeah, Kouhei Maeda. Although from what I've heard he only took over Heroes in the second year. Don't know who the guy was that did it the year before.

I really hope this is right because it explains all the fates pandering and it means Maeda and team B probably have nothing to do with three houses. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Mackc2

[bottlegnomes]

6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Chafing of the legs due to not wearing pants can be avoided by posting or by cushioning the saddle.

Ehhhh. To an extent, yeah, but there are still going to be issues. It's surprisingly hard to find pictures of what type of stirrups peg and wyvern knights use, but all the paladins consistently seem to use English saddles, which I can say from experience will rip the shit out of your legs if you're doing any sort of strenuous riding and don't have the appropriate clothing. You also probably don't want to be posting if you're going at anything more than a trot. It gets tiring to keep up with the horse's motions. Just gotta groove with the motion like you're lovin'. Sorrynotsorry. Then again, old Marcus can't keep his damn heels down and Geoffrey and Seth both have their feet too far into their stirrups, so I'm just gonna go with magic in regards to the practicality of riding gear.

 

6 hours ago, Drakhis said:

Yeah, I forgot about cipher, bring them IS please! ^^

Better crossover GAME yeah, better addon no. Poor Hasha no tsurugi (Joking)

No one want Hasha no Tsurugi? I think that I never saw someone wanting them.

I'd love to see Al and company in the game. Jemmie would be adorable and I'd kill for the paladin dude from early on whose name I can never remember. It'd be even more awesome if they threw in Niime on the banner so she and Al could interact more in Forging Bonds.

 

5 hours ago, XRay said:

That sounds likely. Despite being a cash cow, the developers might be overworked and underappreciated, writing tons of code, meeting sales targets, responding to customer complaints, dealing with shit management, etc.

On the other hand, I can imagine the developers for Cipher having fun and play testing new cards.

Most developers I know don't interact with customers often if at all. We're a crotchety bunch. I'd also be kind of hesitant to idealize the Cipher people like that. It's a job, one they have to take seriously, and all jobs have their stresses. Like fuckin' writing. God damn is actually writing really well hard.

 

1 hour ago, Yexin said:

it looks like a wall of thext, but that's just because i splitted your post in many little parts

In all seriousness, your manner of writing probably doesn't help. You tend to overuse paragraphs which makes the thoughts seem disjointed and makes the posts much longer to read. I don't mean to come off as condescending, and feel free to disregard my sentiments.

 

5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Legendary Lyn's only necessary adjustment is to switch out Desperation for either Quick Riposte or Dull Ranged. In PvE, Laws of Sacae and the Distant Def 3 Sacred Seal are more than enough for most content (especially if you're actually buffing her, unlike me). Guard Bow is only there to bunker down in Aether Raids since she has the advantage over tanks like Surtr and Fae of being able to clear structures on the other sides of walls to open squares for the enemy to attack from by herself.

Haven't really done any playing around with it since no way in hell am I killing my only Nailah, but Null C-Disrupt seems like it might be a pretty decent choice for her as well.

 

Regarding the Surtr stuff, I'm not his biggest fan, but I do think the problems with him are overblown. I happen to go back to the Joker a lot because a lot of people, including me, love him, but TAS Joker really doesn't have any more of a motivation than Surtr. He wants money, wants to destroy Batman, and has an abusive relationship with Harley, like Surtr with his daughters. That said, he's awesome because of how well he's portrayed. Surtr's only intrinsic issue was that there wasn't enough development. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Heroes story reads like a bullet-pointed plot summary. Build out the story more, fix all the just horrendous moments in it, give Surtr a level of flair, and throw in a sick VA, and Surtr could've been a perfectly good villain.

 

[Lewyn]

Addressing some of the new points.  

The male list is always much more respectable than the female list cause there is no sexual component, people just like those characters.  While with females liking the characters is part of it, but there is the whole waifu thing.  Oh and there are not tons of women like Camilla.  She has a gorgeous face in addition to those curves, large bust, perfect legs, and she is royalty.  

Lewyn is my favorite character and by some margin.  Does he have any alts?  No he just one version.  Just one, no alternate.  Did I vote for him here?  No because I'm not selfish, I'd rather get other characters in the game.  Then again I like more than one character which I guess is unusual. What is it called though...empathy?  Yeah I can feel for others whose favorite characters are not in the game, after all my favorite was only added recently.  However those born in a life of luxury with silver spoons, having  favorite at launch and being thrown alts left and right continuously likely think of just themselves.  Cause they have never wanted or needed.

Alright all that sounds rather nasty, but I think that is the heart of the matter and why dislike of all the versions of Camilla has spilled into attacking the fanbase and bashing the character herself.  I will clear up that I enjoyed Fates and Awakening, and Camilla is my favorite of the royals and I like her as a character despite some obvious pandering aspects.  So I am not a 'hater'.  

With all that being said, I'm changing my strategy.  Screw it, I am not going to vote for Eirika just to possibly push out Robin and Camilla.  I am going to do the best to get a character not yet in the game that I want most, Altena.  I voted for her on my phone, the ballot shows now that all my votes are for her.  

Finally the midterm results destroys the integrity of the final results.  Besides people trying to prevent this or that winner, it also will get many to change their vote to someone who is a contender instead of their true favorite.  

[Ice Dragon]

21 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

The male list is always much more respectable than the female list cause there is no sexual component,

Bruno's abs beg to differ.

 

23 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

but there is the whole waifu thing.

As is this whole husbando thing.

[bottlegnomes]

Oh, regarding the whole selfishness thing and people not getting other sides, I have an analogy that I hope kind of helps. I admit it's a bit forced, but I'm trying to put it in contexts that are more immediate so people might be able to see each side better.

There's a group of seven friends: Jeffrey, Joe, Sarah, Mary, Shelly, Landon, and Grace. The group has made an agreement to meet for lunch once a week at the place the most people pick. Jeffrey, Mary, and Landon love McDonald's, like absolutely love it. They'd get it every day for every meal if they could. Sarah and Grace like KFC a lot too. Joe likes Burger King and is okay with KFC, and Shelly likes Wendy's but isn't especially fond of KFC. Since three like McDonald's they find themselves there every week. One week, Joe and Shelly decide to vote for KFC just to have a change of pace. Shelly isn't particularly happy with the choice, but she's glad it was something different for once. Joe's happy with it, but not overly thrilled. Sarah and Grace are thrilled. And finally, Jeffrey, Mary, and Landon are disappointed.

Who's more selfish, Jeffrey, Mary, and Landon for not ever voting for another option so their friends can have some variety? Or is it Joe and Shelly who colluded against their friends and made a choice other than their favorite just so they wouldn't go to McDonald's knowing Jeffrey, Mary, and Landon would be disappointed?

I tried to make that as fair as possible, but I feel like some biases probably slipped out. I personally am in the Shelly and Joe camp and so I do lean toward the anit-Camilla sentiment, really the anti-anyone-in-the-game. But I'm also apparently dead inside as far as this thing is concerned given that two characters I really like, one I've grown to like, and one who isn't my favorite, but I have no problems with were in the top four and I still felt just astoundingly disappointed.

@Anacybele This is probably bringing up a much dead horse, but I think the biggest issue against Elincia is her relative lack of screen-time. In PoR, she's not a playable character for the majority of the game, and they're rarely as popular as characters who are playable for as much of the game probably since people aren't actively using them and getting to know them beyond the story level. And then in RD, she was the star of the shortest section and in all the subsequent , while still very important, wasn't a spotlight character in terms of story (Ike Micaiah) or gameplay (the Royals). That said, I adore her as well and I do wish she got more love from the fandom in general.

Edited January 26, 2019 by bottlegnomes

[Anacybele]

11 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

This is probably bringing up a much dead horse, but I think the biggest issue against Elincia is her relative lack of screen-time. In PoR, she's not a playable character for the majority of the game, and they're rarely as popular as characters who are playable for as much of the game probably since people aren't actively using them and getting to know them beyond the story level. And then in RD, she was the star of the shortest section and in all the subsequent , while still very important, wasn't a spotlight character in terms of story (Ike Micaiah) or gameplay (the Royals). That said, I adore her as well and I do wish she got more love from the fandom in general.

She had a lot more screen time than Mia or Nephenee though, and yet people love them. So that can't be the issue. But yeah, I really wish she got more love. She deserves it more than those two at least, imo.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Anacybele

[bottlegnomes]

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

She had a lot more screen time than Mia or Nephenee though, and yet people love them. So that can't be the issue. But yeah, I really wish she got more love. She deserves it more than those two at least, imo.

I was including playable time as being more valuable than story time since you can interact through other means like supports, base convos, and most importantly gameplay, which is where she'd fall behind. Sorry, probably should've made that more clear. But yeah, definitely agreed. Elincia > Neph and Mia. Never really got the Mia love personally.

Edited January 26, 2019 by bottlegnomes

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, bottlegnomes said:

I was including playable time as being more valuable than story time since you can interact through other means like supports, base convos, and most importantly gameplay, which is where she'd fall behind. Sorry, probably should've made that more clear.

Why is playing time more important? Micaiah is a terrible unit, so by that logic, she should be hated, not loved. People seem to like characters mostly based on design and support conversations/story. Gameplay may be a smaller factor too, but I don't see it as the most important one.

[bottlegnomes]

17 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Why is playing time more important? Micaiah is a terrible unit, so by that logic, she should be hated, not loved. People seem to like characters mostly based on design and support conversations/story. Gameplay may be a smaller factor too, but I don't see it as the most important one.

You're personally interacting with them rather than watching them which basically always results in stronger feelings, positive or negative. And that's kind of the thing about the internet and especially stuff like this. People are more likely to go with the characters they have strong positive feelings towards than the ones they have middling positive feelings towards. For a complete asspull of numbers, say 50% of the fans like Elincia and 15% love her (included in the 50%). Miccy has 35% of fans that like her, but 25% that love her for whatever reason, she had a cool combat model, they liked getting to train her, she  turned out well for them through RNG luck, she was a clutch healer in part 2, etc. The thing is, Micaiah is probably going to come out on top since that 35% of Elincia's fans are liable to go elsewhere for characters they more actively like while Miccy is only going to lose 10%.

Heck, this is probably a big chunk of why lords are almost always at the top. They're the one set of characters that, in addition to getting the most plot time, the player is basically forced to use for a significant part of the game, unless everyone hates you because you're Eliwood and just a standup guy instead of attention-grabbing like your comrades v_v.

Edited January 26, 2019 by bottlegnomes

[Lewyn]

36 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Bruno's abs beg to differ.

 

As is this whole husbando thing.

Husbando is a thing, but the vast majority of the playerbase are male.  Therefore the vast majority of the playerbase are attracted to females.  So whatever few people here or there that are into guys aren't going to impact these polls hardly at all.  Bruno is in cause he is an OC (of which many have made the list) who is still missing despite being around since the beginning of game.  

@bottlegnomes If it was a good group of friends then each person would get their choice once a week.  So yeah they would end up eating at McDonalds a lot, but not every time.  This means that the other people get their choice even if it is only once in awhile.  

Edited January 26, 2019 by Lewyn