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Alistair

Choose Your Legends 3

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2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I thought you had realized I was messing about.

I wasn't sure. You didn't say you were joking and your response seemed to seriously continue the conversation, so I took it that you were serious.

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1 hour ago, Florete said:

I wasn't sure. You didn't say you were joking and your response seemed to seriously continue the conversation, so I took it that you were serious.

Well I said "to be real" before breaking off into an actual interesting point. I thought that would make it clear that the preceding banter wasn't real. 

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2 hours ago, bethany81707 said:

Which is why we agree with you on Aureola. Apocalypse, though, has the oh-so-tenuous link of "his mother has the Dark affinity".

I know Apocalypse is a bit of a stretch. I was led mainly by how B!Hector and B!Lyn took FE6 exclusive weapons and how a bigger softie like Eirika got Gleipnir. Since Aureola is already in FE7, I then pushed for Apocalypse. Reading more into Elbert and Eleanora later is when the Dark affinity part came in and the pieces started to fit. Basically, I first thought of things this way:

- B!Eliwood as a red tome cav with Apocalypse wearing Elbert’s outfit.

- L!Eliwood as a blue or green tome cav unit with Aureola wearing the ceremonial garb.

Seeing as we just got a Durandal refine, I don’t see Legendary Eliwood getting another Durandal so soon but who knows. We could be in for another busted Durandal in a few months. 

Eckesachs is off-limits due to it being the symbol of the King of Bern. Saint’s Staff is the ultimate healing staff which could suit him but a cleric like Elen should be the one to have that honor. There’s also the Binding Blade as a possibility but I don’t see the developers actually giving that weapon to someone else. That sword is so iconic to Roy but we’ll have to wait and see what the developers will do. They’re probably working on this year’s winners as we speak. 

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4 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

and how a bigger softie like Eirika got Gleipnir.

Gleipnir's namesake is the fetters that hold Fenrir at bay until Ragnarok, symbolic of law and courage. In The Sacred Stones, the weapon had the epithet "Divine Magic Law".

Apocalypse's namesake is the end of the world. No explanation needed.

Huge difference.

 

19 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

Seeing as we just got a Durandal refine, I don’t see Legendary Eliwood getting another Durandal so soon but who knows. We could be in for another busted Durandal in a few months. 

Legendary Ephraim says hi.

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11 hours ago, Drakhis said:

It's not because it's not in the original game that it's not canon. On top of that, if it makes sense, I think this is problematic. Aureola Eliwood makes sense, because of his mother, and because of his personality in my opinion.

No, it doesn't make sense. 

He does not show that he can use magic in any of the two games he's in (one in which he's an old man and still can't use magic) and Aureola is the top light magic spell that only extremely proficient light mages can use.

Lilina is Hector's daughter. What the hell do they have in common?



 

Edited by Vince777

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4 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

No, it doesn't make sense. 

He does not show that he can use magic in any of the two games he's in (one in which he's an old man and still can't use magic) and Aureola is the top light magic spell that only extremely proficient light mages can use.

Lilina is Hector's daughter. What the hell do they have in common?

 

I forgot one word in my sentence ^^

And yes it makes sense. His mother was a bishop. He doesn't have a problem with magic, unlike his son. Aureola makes sense here because of his mother.

Why Lilina? I never talked about her, did I?

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11 hours ago, Drakhis said:

It's not because it's not in the original game that it's not canon. On top of that, if it makes sense, I think this is problematic. Aureola Eliwood makes sense, because of his mother, and because of his personality in my opinion.

I used Lilina as a example why who Eliwood's mother is does not really matter.  She became a very proficient mage despite having Hector for father.

Not having a mentionned problem with magic does not mean he could use the most powerful light magic spell in existence, or even any magic at all.  

Guess we'll just disagree. 

 

Edited by Vince777

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Here is a little something about the term “Apocalypse” itself...

“The Apocalypse is a term that is commonly used in English to refer to the end of the world. In actuality, the word, originating from the Greek language, is translated as a disclosure of divine knowledge, hidden from humanity in an era dominated by falsehood and misconception, and can be roughly translated to English as revelation, disclosure, divulgence, exposure or unmasking.” 

The tome is known as “The Elder Revelation” or “The Darkness of the Revelation”.

I’ll go with the simplest reasoning; in other words, Occam’s Razor when it comes to Apocalypse/Aureola for B!Eliwood. 

@Vince777: Trying to tie yourself to “canon” stuff and making “sense” in FEH is equal to endless headaches and despair, especially when it comes to alts. Unlike Roy who was deemed with no talent for magic, Eliwood could potentially get a magic based alt. Lyn got one already, even if it’s just a goofy seasonal. 

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6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

In The Sacred Stones, the weapon had the epithet "Divine Magic Law".

Where did it say this? I don't recall that being mentioned anywhere. I don't recall it being mention in its item description, and when Ephraim gets it, it only is only called "the magic tome Gleipnir and Garm, the black axe.".

Given how awkward the epithet sounds, I guess you pulled it out of the Japanese and it was something the translators botched. Even though they gave Garm a proper title.

So too did they give Vidofnir "the Winged Lance", Nidhogg "the Serpent Bow". Siegmund and Sieglinde the "Flame Lance" and "Thunder Blade". Audhulma "the ice blade" and Excalibur "the wind blade" (but this is apparently only mentioned on Ephraim Mode, not Eirika's, and their titles like Garm's are spelt using lowercase letters while later the rest are properly capitalized). Latona is called the "divine Staff of Latona" (which sounds correct to me), and Ivaldi is only described as "glorious Ivaldi".

Looking at these, Gleipnir it appears got a little messed with by the translators. Ivaldi too- what is its literal title translated from Japanese?

Regardless, to call Gleipnir law is a little weird, since Dark Magic in SS doesn't at all seem like it'd be associated with law, and we know nothing of hero Grado and whether he was really into law and order and justice and all. If anything, I'd think that title would go to Ivaldi.

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4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Where did it say this? I don't recall that being mentioned anywhere. I don't recall it being mention in its item description, and when Ephraim gets it, it only is only called "the magic tome Gleipnir and Garm, the black axe.".

Japan.

Its epithet in Japanese is 魔典 (maten), which can be translated as "magic law(s)".

The localization's translation of "magic tome" is not too far off, though it does need to jump through some hurdles to get there. By extension of its use as "laws", the word 典 is used in various compounds to mean "the document that laws are written on". For example, the word 辞典 (jiten) uses the characters for "word laws" and thus means "dictionary".

You can therefore also translate the epithet as "magic codex", which is how "magic tome" likely came to be in English.

Given that the other two Sacred Twin tome weapons make no mention of their form as a tome and the reference to the fetters that bind Fenrir from Norse mythology, I'm inclined to use the more literal translation of "magic law".

 

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Looking at these, Gleipnir it appears got a little messed with by the translators. Ivaldi too- what is its literal title translated from Japanese?

Ivaldi is 光輝 (kouki), "splendor".

The full list is

  • Sieglinde, the Thunder Sword (雷剣, raiken)
  • Siegmund, the Flame Lance (炎創, ensou)
  • Vidofnir, the Wing Lance (翼創, yokusou)
  • Nidhogg, the Serpent Bow (蛇弓, jakyuu)
  • Audhumla, the Ice Sword (氷剣, hyouken)
  • Excalibur, the Wind Blade (風刃, fuujin)
  • Ivaldi, the Splendor (光輝, kouki)
  • Latona, the Sacred Staff (聖杖, seijou)
  • Garm, the Black Axe (黒斧, kokufu)
  • Gleipnir, the Magic Law (魔典, maten)

As a side note, Audhumla was misspelled in the English localization as Audhulma with the M and L switched, and that spelling remains in Heroes as well.

 

9 hours ago, Lord-Zero said:

The tome is known as “The Elder Revelation” or “The Darkness of the Revelation”.

The word for "revelation" used in that translation is the same as the word in Japanese for "apocalypse" and for the biblical Book of Revelation.

As such, the use of the word "revelation" in those epithets is very likely a direct reference to the apocalypse of the Book of Revelation and not to "revelation" as a common noun.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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53 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

As a side note, Audhumla was misspelled in the English localization as Audhulma with the M and L switched, and that spelling remains in Heroes as well.

That's a shame that they didn't fix that. It makes the word much less awkward to say. Or maybe that's just me who hates its mouth feel.

 

54 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The word for "revelation" used in that translation is the same as the word in Japanese for "apocalypse" and for the biblical Book of Revelation.

As such, the use of the word "revelation" in those epithets is very likely a direct reference to the apocalypse of the Book of Revelation and not to "revelation" as a common noun.

To be fair, that's where Revelation got its title, Jesus in all his trippy, golden glory revealing how things would play out to John. That said, the whole series of events is more tied to the name in that regard so yeah, they were probably referring to all the crazy shit that happened rather than the part where Jesus was like "Hey, dude, here's what's gonna happen." Now I kind wish they'd up the craziness in Apocalypse's animation. It's pretty tame compared to some of the stuff that happens in there.

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10 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

To be fair, that's where Revelation got its title, Jesus in all his trippy, golden glory revealing how things would play out to John. That said, the whole series of events is more tied to the name in that regard so yeah, they were probably referring to all the crazy shit that happened rather than the part where Jesus was like "Hey, dude, here's what's gonna happen." Now I kind wish they'd up the craziness in Apocalypse's animation. It's pretty tame compared to some of the stuff that happens in there.

Yeah, it's just that in its modern usage, the word "apocalypse" now refers to the events of the revelation rather than the process of the revelation itself because of it, hence why my interpretation of Apocalypse's epithet is that it refers to the ending of the world itself and not the revealing of the knowledge of how the world will end.

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59 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

To be fair, that's where Revelation got its title, Jesus in all his trippy, golden glory revealing how things would play out to John. That said, the whole series of events is more tied to the name in that regard so yeah, they were probably referring to all the crazy shit that happened rather than the part where Jesus was like "Hey, dude, here's what's gonna happen." Now I kind wish they'd up the craziness in Apocalypse's animation. It's pretty tame compared to some of the stuff that happens in there.

Part of the mainstream media and Hollywood turned the focus on the crazy and catastrophic events that happened and the word became synonymous with “the end of the world” due to great disasters when it was initially just the disclosure of divine knowledge. Why? Because the “events of the revelation” are far more interesting for making movies and the like. 

Apocalypse’s animation is pretty long. Starts out well with the big magic crest and the letters which actually plays well the “revelation of divine knowledge” part, followed by a simple black hole that quickly vanishes which is supposed to be the disaster itself. There was far more focus on the first half of the spell than anything else. FEH developers could probably speed it up and make the black hole better looking. 

Edited by Lord-Zero

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