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Do You Think We'll See The Turnwheel Return?


Turnwheel?  

57 members have voted

  1. 1. Will we see it return?

    • Yes
      27
    • No
      25
    • Other
      5


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So, I was rewatching the Three Houses trailer and I saw what looked like a Turnwheel on the map of Fodlan (or maybe it was a compass) in the lower left hand corner. Do you think we will see it return?

Personally, I hope so. I was skeptical of it but found myself really liking the mechanic as it saved time without mitigating the challenge. It was a godsend in some of Echoes' more egregiously brutal maps (Nuibaba's Abode, I'm looking at you). That being said, there may have been a slight bit too many cogs and I would've liked RNG results to be fixed so I could strstegize around instead of just hoping I'd be lucky. Ultimately, I really did like the mechanic though and hope it would find a way in Three Houses with some nsrrstive significance (Call it Gift of Seiros or somrthing).

Thoughts?

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I hope so. The turnwheel rocked and covers up for some egregious enemy designs, like summoners/witches who decide on a whim whether they'd like to summon/warp every turn or just chill for two turns. And of course covers up for the unexpected crit or skill activation. With a turnwheel, they can actually get away with granting critical rates and skills to standard enemies.

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I'm not opposed to it, and it's definitely a really neat addition. If it was added into TH, that's great, and if it's not, no big deal. It's a mechanic that's optional to utilize, and it can definitely add to the challenge if you don't use. It's a quality of life item that would be nice to have, but it doesn't matter to me either way.

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While I love Mila's Turnwheel, (I might get stoned for saying this) I don't think we'll see it's return in this installment of Fire Emblem. I hold the opinion of it's SOV's special mechanic that makes it stand out. Akin to Awakening's (busted) pair up, and Fates dragon veins. 

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I would LOVE to have this feature return, but... I feel it's unlikely to be a staple in the series. It's great and all, but how exactly are they going to justify its existence? It explains how it works in FE15 as the Turnwheel shows visions of the future. So are we going to pretty much have future sight every game now? 

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1 hour ago, DeoGame said:

So, I was rewatching the Three Houses trailer and I saw what looked like a Turnwheel on the map of Fodlan (or maybe it was a compass) in the lower left hand corner. Do you think we will see it return?

Personally, I hope so. I was skeptical of it but found myself really liking the mechanic as it saved time without mitigating the challenge. It was a godsend in some of Echoes' more egregiously brutal maps (Nuibaba's Abode, I'm looking at you). That being said, there may have been a slight bit too many cogs and I would've liked RNG results to be fixed so I could strstegize around instead of just hoping I'd be lucky. Ultimately, I really did like the mechanic though and hope it would find a way in Three Houses with some nsrrstive significance (Call it Gift of Seiros or somrthing).

Thoughts?

I didn't think of it at the time, but I agree that there were too many cogs. Especially because you kept finding more as the game went on, when the game ought to be getting more difficult, and the player more familiar with all the game mechanics, enemy types, AI, etc.

I won't lie, I was still running low on them by the end of some longer dungeons. But I'm dumb and make mistakes all the time, and when you're on your last few turnwheels the gameplay feels more important.

46 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I would LOVE to have this feature return, but... I feel it's unlikely to be a staple in the series. It's great and all, but how exactly are they going to justify its existence? It explains how it works in FE15 as the Turnwheel shows visions of the future. So are we going to pretty much have future sight every game now? 

This reminded me I've been playing Into the Breach lately, and it has a similar setting-contextual reason for its limited rewind mechanic, because the characters are all jumping from alternate timelines. That said, I don't know if every strategy RPG really needs a lore reason for this quality of life change, even though it's great when there is one. It just kind of fits naturally with strategy gameplay, especially to undo your finger slipping and pressing "Wait" when you meant to use an action, or something.

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I hope the turnwheel becomes a series staple. It was a nice way to solve tactical errors and avoid having to restart a chapter for something that either was or wasn't your fault, yet it wasn't something you could abuse haphazardly. I am expecting that they'll reduce the amount of cogs you'll get in Three Houses and future games when compared to Echoes, just because that game had the excuse of dungeons, which tended to be quite lengthy the further you got into the game.

Lore-wise, I actually don't see that many problems with it. Yeah, they'd have to either reuse the "visions" or "time travel" excuses again, but there are several different ways to go about that, so as long as it isn't too blatant or ridiculous, I won't mind them reusing ideas. It's gameplay over story in this case for me

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43 minutes ago, Lynsanity said:

This reminded me I've been playing Into the Breach lately, and it has a similar setting-contextual reason for its limited rewind mechanic, because the characters are all jumping from alternate timelines. That said, I don't know if every strategy RPG really needs a lore reason for this quality of life change, even though it's great when there is one. It just kind of fits naturally with strategy gameplay, especially to undo your finger slipping and pressing "Wait" when you meant to use an action, or something.

To be fair, Fire Emblem has always had cases of characters or such that can view future scenarios. ANd godlike entities that could have items to view future scenarios. But constantly having them and justify it because of that loses appeal fast.

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I'd love if it returned, it was actually a really good mechanic.

I can't tell you how many times I've played a map in Fates: Revelation and just gave up for a while because some dick with an axe scored a critical on one of my units.  A turnwheel mechanic would've mitigated those instances enough that I might've finished one of the paths in Fates a second time.  I don't even give a damn about how it'd fit in the lore, it's just a really good mechanic for strategy games.

Edited by Ertrick36
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16 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

I can't tell you how many times I've played a map in Fates: Revelation and just gave up for a while because some dick with an axe scored a critical on one of my units.  A turnwheel mechanic would've mitigated those instances enough that I might've finished one of the paths in Fates a second time.  I don't even give a damn about how it'd fit in the lore, it's just a really good mechanic for strategy games.

Do not remind me of how Rev LOVES to throw Berserkers at you early on. On Classic, its terrible, particularly on the Camilla Cabaret + Flora ice ship battle. They put the Berserkers on Flora's ship, the one you'll be reaching last, many turns into the battle. So in other words, if one crits, you have to redo the sit-and-wait slog. I dislike them so much I can't be bothered to play that battle normally now. I just use two fliers, Azura, and someone to snip the flower with Azura's help and two turn the fight.

 

The Turnwheel returning is fine, as long as it doesn't interfere with the plot at all. But do decrease the number of uses it has, the Turnwheel's sheer volume was excessive.

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I don't see why lore needs to justify it returning. Gameplay story segregation. There's no lore explanation as to how the lord characters act as convoys nowadays after all.

I hope it returns, but I feel we don't have any reason to believe that it will at the moment.

Edited by Arcphoenix
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36 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Do not remind me of how Rev LOVES to throw Berserkers at you early on. On Classic, its terrible, particularly on the Camilla Cabaret + Flora ice ship battle. They put the Berserkers on Flora's ship, the one you'll be reaching last, many turns into the battle. So in other words, if one crits, you have to redo the sit-and-wait slog. I dislike them so much I can't be bothered to play that battle normally now. I just use two fliers, Azura, and someone to snip the flower with Azura's help and two turn the fight.

I personally always think to Chapter 16/17.  The berserkers in that part of the game just add to the stress behind redoing that whole mess if you screw up.  Of course there aren't any in Chapter 17, but just the thought of having to go through the berserkers again if I fail is enough to make me go berserk.

Funny thing is, your flier method is how I did that map the first time.  And a few other times as well.  Although in a no-grind run, it's a bad practice to skip out on potential treasures like the Master Seal one of the units in that chapter has unless you have a significant amount of either prepromotes or units in classes without promotions, so I've lately had to bite the bullet and do the full thing each time I played it.  Which yeah, it totally sucks to do.

12 minutes ago, Arcphoenix said:

I feel we don't have any reason to believe that it will at the moment.

Except for the fact that it's just a good mechanic that they should implement into more games.

Then again, there are lots of good mechanics that they don't put in newer games.

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I'm kinda mixed about the turnwheel. It definitely worked to cover up some of Gaiden's questionable design choices. And I do kinda like having an "undo" button, of limited uses. But I also worry that it'll make me a lazier player; I certainly felt that way playing Echoes. I didn't check enemies as meticulously or plan my moves out as carefully because I didn't have to. Of course, it's easy enough to not use (certainly I played through the entirety of Tactics Ogre PSP without using its similar mechanic), so I can't say I'd be opposed even as I would need to figure out how much I would personally use it. (Much like how FE is unquestionably improved by having the option of Casual Mode, even if I don't use it myself.)

 

I really don't like the idea of using it to erase enemy crits myself! Enemies with crit are something the game clearly wants you to plan around, via deploying someone with high luck to null it, or high defence(/res) to tank it, or just killing such enemies before they can strike you. If you just blindly let those enemies hit anyone in your team, trusting on the turnwheel to erase the few times the RNG kills them... eh, sucks a big part of the tactics out for me. Not gonna fault others for playing how they want, but that's definitely not something I can see myself doing.

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I totally think it will. It just feels like something IS would do.

Now do I want it back, that's another thing. I see it as a very elegant way to completely annihilate any strategical challenge the game could otherwise provide. It's really fun to use, though. I think the best way they could go about it is giving the player one or two charges tops throughout the normal game, and provide grinding options to get more from the get-go. Would probably be the best of both worlds.

Or they could simply make it optional, period, I guess.

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20 hours ago, DeoGame said:

So, I was rewatching the Three Houses trailer and I saw what looked like a Turnwheel on the map of Fodlan (or maybe it was a compass) in the lower left hand corner. Do you think we will see it return?

Personally, I hope so. I was skeptical of it but found myself really liking the mechanic as it saved time without mitigating the challenge. It was a godsend in some of Echoes' more egregiously brutal maps (Nuibaba's Abode, I'm looking at you). That being said, there may have been a slight bit too many cogs and I would've liked RNG results to be fixed so I could strstegize around instead of just hoping I'd be lucky. Ultimately, I really did like the mechanic though and hope it would find a way in Three Houses with some nsrrstive significance (Call it Gift of Seiros or somrthing).

Thoughts?

keep in mind that Echoes also had some quite broken units like Witches teleporting around the map, and there was no control whatsoever over that.

you had no means to come up with a pre-planned strategy in order to approach them unlike with other "default" units without the teleport ability, and while there were limited chances to be able to deal with them in a proper way, there were even more chances to get wiped out if RNG went bad.

the Mila's Turnwheel was mainly added to prevent such situations where RNG was becoming too much to handle during campaign chapters( i have lost count of how many times i had to restart chapters/load save states in Gaiden thanks to Witches ), and then to make story progression overall less tedious than what it was before in the original game.

it worked also as a secondary function to help people who didn't want to loose all their progress during long dungeons/labyrinth explorations( especially Thebes ).

the problem is that in the long run it also lowered the difficulty of the game even further by lowering the chances of wiping out entirely, reducing the need to plan strategies in order to approach dangerous situations, and giving more way to risky play in general due to the "safety" that the Mila's Turnwheel provided.

 

while i did like the function of the Turnwheel itself due to how Gaiden played before, i think it should stay in Echoes. depending on the gameplay of Three Houses, there might be no need for that feature, as long as there's no broken unpredictable units involved.

the main reason for that is that the game modes of the most recent titles in the franchise have become quite generous( perhaps too much ) to new comers with casual modes and the option to avoid perma-death, so in my opinion there's no need for a Turnwheel in a different game, as long as it doesn't play in the same way as Echoes.

perma-death has always been a part of Fire Emblem, it's what made it unique, it's what gave meaning to planning strategies and tactics before approaching the enemy army, and it should stay the same as always. i would say restarting a chapter in order to have all units alive in Classic modes is a good trade-off, if you really want a full collection of units.

otherwise, people should just play the game as it was intended to be played, and enjoy it for what it is.

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Perhaps it might return as part of a game mode?  Sort of how Battle Saves worked in Radiant Dawn?

(or I THINK it was Radiant Dawn that did that.  Man, my memory's fuzzy)

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15 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Perhaps it might return as part of a game mode?  Sort of how Battle Saves worked in Radiant Dawn?

(or I THINK it was Radiant Dawn that did that.  Man, my memory's fuzzy)

Radiant Dawn did disable them for Hard mode so you're right to an extent. It should be a different toggle though if they did.

Edited by IS Bath Salts HQ
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