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Anyone Wants to Play 10-Units-Only Conquest?

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10 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I do still have a save before chapters 25 & 26, but I have never done any gameplay recordings before, and the only recording device I have at the moment would be my phone so it would be potato quality at best. If I find time this weekend I might try it.

While it would be great, I do not want to bother you, mate. Thanks for the offer, though.
 

10 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Although there are few difference I will note about our teams that make mine a little tankier. First I had a wyvern lord, and thus defense rally, which is an easy way to add physical bulk. Speed boon Corrin's ability to avoid being doubling really helped his bulk, for example being able to equip the dragonstone + with its +9 defense without having to take a second hit from Ryoma is what let him tank for so long. Additionally it sounds like you tend not to have many weapon breaker skills in your team, and the three I had each saw vital use keeping my team alive.

You are right. Since I have played Hard way more times than Lunatic, I have certain defensive thresholds set in my mind, while Lunatic demands greater numbers.
A clear example: Since I could not finish Endgame but I wanted to have the final turn counts and battle statistics, I lowered to difficulty on a different save and played Endgame on Hard immediately after a couple of unsuccessful tries on Lunatic, and the difference was abysmal. The party marched without problems wiping all enemies bar one single Paladin and killing Takumi by Turn 6 or so. So, this party was more than capable to complete Endgame on Hard at first try without much hassle, but struggled immensely to complete it on Lunatic.

About the Breaker skills, I usually only get Axe Breaker from Hero, but that is it. Shuriken Breaker might be the key to complete both corridors of Ch 25 and to ease Endgame on Lunatic, but the skill is certainly less shiny on Hard. Tome Breaker would be helpful on Ch 24 and 26; Sword Breaker, on very specific sections of Ch 25.

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5 hours ago, starburst said:

About the Breaker skills, I usually only get Axe Breaker from Hero, but that is it. Shuriken Breaker might be the key to complete both corridors of Ch 25 and to ease Endgame on Lunatic, but the skill is certainly less shiny on Hard. Tome Breaker would be helpful on Ch 24 and 26; Sword Breaker, on very specific sections of Ch 25.

Axe Breaker sounds like a useful skill on 26. Otherwise a great assessment.

 

3 hours ago, Azure in a Roundabout said:

Bowbreaker is something too, if you really hate Takumi. Though that may still be suboptimal.

I think both of us forgot about bow breaker (as I seem to remember Starburst also having a Sorcerer, and while I said 3 I forgot to count bow breaker for 4). That being said if you can get it on or before 23 that can help in scaling the wall (it can be done, but it is something you have to be aiming for to get it that early).

 

 

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1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I think both of us forgot about bow breaker (as I seem to remember Starburst also having a Sorcerer, and while I said 3 I forgot to count bow breaker for 4). That being said if you can get it on or before 23 that can help in scaling the wall (it can be done, but it is something you have to be aiming for to get it that early).

Or using Felicia or Jakob.

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On 22/3/2019 at 7:16 PM, Eltosian Kadath said:

Axe Breaker sounds like a useful skill on 26. Otherwise a great assessment.

Yes, it is! Ch 26's Berserkers have like 2 % chance of hitting Hero Silas. The 'problem' is that if the other unit playing the role of a tank does not have this skill, it will turn into a Berserker Magnet.
In my case, Nohr Cornflakes could either one-hit or one-round every single Berkserker thrown at her, but this does not mean that she could sustain that many hits. Even with Guard Stance, the Berserkers hit so hard that some lucky dodges may be required to pull it through.

 

On 22/3/2019 at 7:16 PM, Eltosian Kadath said:

I think both of us forgot about bow breaker (as I seem to remember Starburst also having a Sorcerer, and while I said 3 I forgot to count bow breaker for 4). That being said if you can get it on or before 23 that can help in scaling the wall (it can be done, but it is something you have to be aiming for to get it that early).

I too forgot about it, and I often play with Sorcerer Odin and Sorcerer Ophelia. He he.
As you mentioned, the most useful map to have it is Ch 23, and my Sorcerers seldom reach L15 in Ch 22. I do try to have it for the roof of Ch 23, and also use it against the Kinshi in Ch 24 or the annoying Merchant of Ch 27, but that is it. I have no problems killing Endgame's Takumi, the issue is reaching him.

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I am finally back to your strategy for Endgame. My intention was to comment on this after playing it myself on my latest campaign, but I am still dealing with Ch 21 and the last week was dedicated to hacking the Switch.
 

On 22/3/2019 at 1:11 AM, Eltosian Kadath said:

Part 9 The Bitter Price of Victory (Endgame)

[ ...] Ophelia is currently baiting the paladins and malig knights, and with the western enffeble plus one of the far southern ones there is no way for her to survive (but she does take one of the Malig knights with her). Bifrost thankfully clears her debuffs, but to kill the Paladin and Malig Knight that are further behind, Effie and Peri have to enter the range of the four paired horsemen of the apocalypse and die enemy phase [...]

[...] Elise dies blocking the one space choke point in the east, Azura dies, Silas dies, Beruka dies, Felica miraculously lives (the +20 avoid from the S rank support with Niles is the only reason she could dodge, so true love for the win I guess) and manages to block the space they would use to finish off Niles. With the damage Takumi has taken and the dragon hex debuff, Ophelia finishes Takumi off with the quad lightning hit (with bow breaker keeping him from slaughtering her, one hit gets shield blocked but with attack stances somehow working on him it is just enough). Corrin, Ophelia, Felicia, and Niles survive, although barely.

That last charge of yours was brutal, mate; six kills out of ten units. I will probably have to do something like this, specially with my previous party (the one that has been discussed here.) I have already tried kamikaze moves, but only to test my survivability and not as actual requirements within a strategy. It might be my only way out.

Your moves seem all reproducible with my usual parties, the greatest differences being Rally Defence and the Rescue staff. On my previous campaign, I had to use my last Rescue staff on the roof of Ch 23; on my current one, I still have two charges at Ch 21 and Selena has been a helpful Wyvern Lord.
I did not mention Bifröst because I hardly use Maids, and I am most likely underrating Shuriken Breaker.

It has been a great read so far, mate. I have learned from your gameplay and am still amazed about how you managed to do it without Guard Stance. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

I may peep at your Revelation campaign, but, honestly, it is a game that I will never try to complete. Or ever try again. He he.

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I took my time to beat Lunatic Birthright (female only, I might post about it) and Revelation, and I’m back to play some more Conquest goodness. I’ve cleared fates 6 times now, and my only concern for this challenge is “How should I prevent Corrin from outclassing his/her peers?” I don’t think anyone would argue against the idea that Corrin is excellent at whatever they decide to do, and I want to try to prevent a situation where the other units basically become useless. Maybe I might lock her into a single weapon class (I’ve wanted to explore the spearmaster class for their debuff utility especially) or I might put her in a class with clearly defined weaknesses like falcon knight. How was your experience with Corrin, starburst? 
 

Units I want to stay away from in this run:

Effie - I love Effie so much. Her strength is absolutely ridiculous and she will threaten to OHKO most squishy targets. Give her some investment and she will do it with a Javelin. Some people complain about her bulk but Gentilhomme and sometimes Lily’s Poise really helps in that regard. I want to see if I can not rely on her as much in this run.

Charlotte: While the unit itself is unremarkable, she enables some ridiculously powerful physical builds and I want to stay away from that. No backpacks allowed so she’s banned anyways.

Some units I want to try using:

Odin (or Ophelia): I always thought that Odin was pretty cool but I never got around to using him. Perhaps he can bring some different strengths than Leo with his samurai class tree.

Selena: She’s cute. I always benched her after chapter 10 and I want to try giving her a chance. I imagine she might carve out a niche as a reliable Axe user and/or a Berserker counter. 

Edited by windypanda1

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4 hours ago, windypanda1 said:

I’ve cleared fates 6 times now, and my only concern for this challenge is “How should I prevent Corrin from outclassing his/her peers?”

It does not happen to me. Just give her another role. 😜

Conquest takes place almost exclusive on Player Phase. It plays like a series of assaults, always marching forward.
In smaller parties, roles and thresholds are stricter. For example, I usually have two “tanks”, one healer, five powerful exclusively-Player-Phase units, one anti-magic unit, and one all-around-er who may replace the front-liners on selective Enemy Phases.

By “tank” I mean a Hero, Paladin, Wolfssegner, Wyvern Lord. I hardly ever use the Knight class.
A “tank” whom I like is Nohr Noble +Magic Cornflakes. She is powerful- and fast enough to one-round most enemies while wielding tomes, and sturdy enough to hold any position with her Dragon Stone. (Later in the game, she one-hits many enemies with the Dragon Stone Plus.)

Now, while ”tanks” face multiple encounters, they hardly ever kill their enemies. That is the job of the rest of the party. “Tanks” hold a position, heal their wounds and march to the next section. Therefore the Player-Phase units are a couple of levels ahead of the “tanks”, because they do deliver kills (and gain more Experience) on every single phase.

Up to Chapter 16 or so, my highest-level unit is almost always Elise, because her only job is to heal on every turn (throw away Heals and give her Mends from her very first appearance.) She promotes at Level 15-17 (depending on her Magic stat) in Chapter 11. No grinding, she levels-up fast just by using Mend. Then she also contributes to the attack. With ten units, you need as much might as possible.

 

4 hours ago, windypanda1 said:

Odin (or Ophelia): I always thought that Odin was pretty cool but I never got around to using him.

Give him two level-ups in his own map. He then takes care of all Archers in Chapter 9. In Chapter 10, he tanks all eastern Onis indefinitely. By then he will be at Level 13-14. 😂

If you pair him with Cornflakes, Ophelia shows up around Chapter 11 or 12. If Elise is his intended, Ophelia shows up by Chapter 13.

Ophelia gets three level-ups in her own map and starts rolling. I do not usually go for her broken builds, but she is, by far, the most powerful unit in the game. Her innate damage stack is hilariously broken: Vantage, Vengeance, Life or Death on a unit with 35-38 Magic and at least a +20 % critical hit chance on every attack as a Sorceress (+30 % with her tome.)

I usually make her Corrin’s daughter and only give her Dragon Fang. No re-classing. She still deletes enemies at will.

 

4 hours ago, windypanda1 said:

Selena: She’s cute. I always benched her after chapter 10 and I want to try giving her a chance.

I do not like her character, but as a unit, I would pair her with Beruka for a couple of chapters, go Wyvern Rider as soon as possible and then Wyvern Lord. She lacks Skill but she is fast and sturdy; a decent “tank.”

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4 hours ago, starburst said:

It does not happen to me. Just give her another role. 😜

Conquest takes place almost exclusive on Player Phase. It plays like a series of assaults, always marching forward.
In smaller parties, roles and thresholds are stricter. For example, I usually have two “tanks”, one healer, five powerful exclusively-Player-Phase units, one anti-magic unit, and one all-around-er who may replace the front-liners on selective Enemy Phases.

By “tank” I mean a Hero, Paladin, Wolfssegner, Wyvern Lord. I hardly ever use the Knight class.
A “tank” whom I like is Nohr Noble +Magic Cornflakes. She is powerful- and fast enough to one-round most enemies while wielding tomes, and sturdy enough to hold any position with her Dragon Stone. (Later in the game, she one-hits many enemies with the Dragon Stone Plus.)

Now, while ”tanks” face multiple encounters, they hardly ever kill their enemies. That is the job of the rest of the party. “Tanks” hold a position, heal their wounds and march to the next section. Therefore the Player-Phase units are a couple of levels ahead of the “tanks”, because they do deliver kills (and gain more Experience) on every single phase.

Up to Chapter 16 or so, my highest-level unit is almost always Elise, because her only job is to heal on every turn (throw away Heals and give her Mends from her very first appearance.) She promotes at Level 15-17 (depending on her Magic stat) in Chapter 11. No grinding, she levels-up fast just by using Mend. Then she also contributes to the attack. With ten units, you need as much might as possible.

 

Give him two level-ups in his own map. He then takes care of all Archers in Chapter 9. In Chapter 10, he tanks all eastern Onis indefinitely. By then he will be at Level 13-14. 😂

If you pair him with Cornflakes, Ophelia shows up around Chapter 11 or 12. If Elise is his intended, Ophelia shows up by Chapter 13.

Ophelia gets three level-ups in her own map and starts rolling. I do not usually go for her broken builds, but she is, by far, the most powerful unit in the game. Her innate damage stack is hilariously broken: Vantage, Vengeance, Life or Death on a unit with 35-38 Magic and at least a +20 % critical hit chance on every attack as a Sorceress (+30 % with her tome.)

I usually make her Corrin’s daughter and only give her Dragon Fang. No re-classing. She still deletes enemies at will.

 

I do not like her character, but as a unit, I would pair her with Beruka for a couple of chapters, go Wyvern Rider as soon as possible and then Wyvern Lord. She lacks Skill but she is fast and sturdy; a decent “tank.”

I have to say, it’s quite interesting to hear about how you view the game. Most, if not all of my runs would consist of a few juggernaut units who can Attack AND Tank incredibly well, an essential mage killer, some okay backup units, and heavy staff support. Basically the roles were not very Black and White and units would have their own sort of offensive and defensive utility. Whether you’re intentionally min-maxing to play like a conventional RPG (with the Tank, the DPS, etc.), or that sort of playstyle is optimal in your ruleset, IDK yet. It might be that your EXP rule is preventing your “tanks” from becoming self sufficient juggernauts, and that would also explain how your Corrin is not snowballing out of control and wrecking everything.

I guess I’ll try going for a Magical Variant of Corrin and go for Magic Kana + Ophelia. Physical Single-Weapon classes like Swordmasters/Spearmasters/Snipers are much better off in Hoshido where they have access to Dual Weapons anyways, so I suppose Spearmaster can wait for a future run.

Anyhow, your explanation makes me all the more hyped for the run and I’m really excited to explore a new style of Fire Emblem. 😊

Edited by windypanda1

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3 hours ago, windypanda1 said:

I have to say, it’s quite interesting to hear about how you view the game. Most, if not all of my runs would consist of a few juggernaut units who can Attack AND Tank incredibly well, an essential mage killer, some okay backup units, and heavy staff support.

With ten units, there is no room for backups. Ensemble cast or bust.
If “backpacks” and royals are forbidden, it is very difficult to have units with Enemy Phase as strong and their Player Phase. Give me an example, a unit and their class and we will see.

As early as Chapter 9, Cornflakes cannot tank the Lancers. Neither does Silas. They would be Sealed and die at the third third hit or so. In Chapter 10, what Camilla does cannot be reproduced by others. Silas and a pair-up may tank the western Onis, but he would need various tonics and a couple of concoctions. And he would definitely not be able to handle a mixed group of Lancers, Onis and Ninjas. Corrin would probably fare even worse.
Percy’s map is another example, specially when played right after Ch 10.

I am not saying that Corrin is not strong, she will most likely be the best all-around-er in the party. But think about this: A trained Sorcerer will always deal more damage than a magical Corrin, unless she were a Sorceress too. And a trained Berserker or Sniper will always deal more damage than a physical Corrin, unless she had a similar fast-strong build. And a trained Master Ninja will always be better at facing mages, unless Corrin had a specific fast-resistant build. Thus, if Corrin were indeed the best in all cases, your party would be missing a lot of power! It would mean that your teammates are all weak.

Unless you turtle entire maps, enemies will surround you and kill your units unless you are powerful enough to clear the screen. If you retreat often, you are missing turns. A party of ten Paladins takes more time to clear a screen than a party of specialised mixed unit does. The objective is to kill, not to stand.

How hard do Hans and his bodyguards hit? I would not know, they are always gone without ever landing a single attack.
One of my favourite maps is Chapter 23, the one at Taco’s Castle. It is a fast-paced succession of assaults. And almost every group of enemies is gone in a single Player Phase, without ever having an offensive Enemy Phase. 🙃


 

3 hours ago, windypanda1 said:

Anyhow, your explanation makes me all the more hyped for the run and I’m really excited to explore a new style of Fire Emblem. 😊

Great, let me know. I need the slightest excuse to replay Conquest. We could do it concurrently. I just completed a campaign that I had been playing and discussing with Dr. C, and I already have some ideas about the next one.

Edited by starburst

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I’ve been attempting this challenge for a couple of months now.

Almost finished but I don’t see myself getting through Chapter 27 (Haven’t reached endgame yet) anytime soon.

Overall, it has been a bit tougher than a regular play through but I feel s great sense of accomplishment for having gotten this far.

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2 hours ago, Dr. C said:

Almost finished but I don’t see myself getting through Chapter 27 (Haven’t reached endgame yet) anytime soon.

Hey, mate! What exactly are you failing at?
You are almost done, and this chapter is certainly not more difficult than others that you have already completed.

 Some recommendations:

Spoiler

 

The Maidens wield special Entrap staves with infinite range and 100 % hit. They will always teleport four units (or pairs) into chambers to face one Berserker/ Master Ninja/ Sorcerer/ Sniper.

Make five mixed pairs (as in physical & magical, or Player Phase & Enemy Phase) with your ten units and let them be Entrapped. As far as I know, your healer will always be left in the main hall.
You should not have problems killing the one enemy in the chamber. If you cannot one-round it, kill the Maiden first.

Three Sword Masters and three Spear Masters will start chasing you. The latter are more annoying.
Manipulate the AI so that they chase the units that you want by retreating your weakened pairs closer to the passage at the end of the chamber, and moving your stronger pairs closer to the hall, taking advantage of the pillars at the entrance of each chamber.

Then come one Merchant and four Lancers, all with Spend Thrift. Note that the Lancers have both Counter and Counter Magic. They all go back, closer to Garon if you move away of the main hall.
You would most likely not stand an Enemy Phase against them, and you should only engage them if you can kill them all in a single Player Phase. Freeze them when in doubt.
Use a Sorcerer against the Merchant, and bows and daggers against the Lancers.

 

You should be a millionaire now. In case that you have not done it yet, buy Brave weapons, and forge your core Irons up to +2 and your ranged weapons up to +1.

For Endgame, you want as many Beast Killers and Hunter Knives as you can wield, two anti-armours, the Fortify staff, and tons of tonics.

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7 hours ago, starburst said:

Hey, mate! What exactly are you failing at?
You are almost done, and this chapter is certainly not more difficult than others that you have already completed.

 Some recommendations:

  Hide contents

 

The Maidens wield special Entrap staves with infinite range and 100 % hit. They will always teleport four units (or pairs) into chambers to face one Berserker/ Master Ninja/ Sorcerer/ Sniper.

Make five mixed pairs (as in physical & magical, or Player Phase & Enemy Phase) with your ten units and let them be Entrapped. As far as I know, your healer will always be left in the main hall.
You should not have problems killing the one enemy in the chamber. If you cannot one-round it, kill the Maiden first.

Three Sword Masters and three Spear Masters will start chasing you. The latter are more annoying.
Manipulate the AI so that they chase the units that you want by retreating your weakened pairs closer to the passage at the end of the chamber, and moving your stronger pairs closer to the hall, taking advantage of the pillars at the entrance of each chamber.

Then come one Merchant and four Lancers, all with Spend Thrift. Note that the Lancers have both Counter and Counter Magic. They all go back, closer to Garon if you move away of the main hall.
You would most likely not stand an Enemy Phase against them, and you should only engage them if you can kill them all in a single Player Phase. Freeze them when in doubt.
Use a Sorcerer against the Merchant, and bows and daggers against the Lancers.

 

You should be a millionaire now. In case that you have not done it yet, buy Brave weapons, and forge your core Irons up to +2 and your ranged weapons up to +1.

For Endgame, you want as many Beast Killers and Hunter Knives as you can wield, two anti-armours, the Fortify staff, and tons of tonics.

Thanks for the pointers! I did manage to finally get past Chapter 27 but I got Corrin killed by mistake when she took a hexing rod and then a blow that was more than her new HP total. 

AT least I know I can do it now!

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On 9/11/2020 at 2:51 AM, Dr. C said:

Thanks for the pointers! I did manage to finally get past Chapter 27 but I got Corrin killed by mistake when she took a hexing rod and then a blow that was more than her new HP total. 

See? It gets easier after a couple of tries. I play this game more as a puzzle, and enjoy rethinking the situations. Of course, you may not have the will or the time to try different approaches, but there are no impossible situations on Hard with ten units. Trust me on this one.

Check the approaches written on this thread for Endgame. They were originally wrote for Lunatic, but there was no cheesing, therefore they should help you.

On Hard, I think that the key is to march as fast as possible, without looking back. I do a zigzag in five or so turns.
 

Spoiler

1. Send anti-mages east and strong 2-range west. And let one of your "tanks" bait the three Onis.

2. Kill the mages on the east and the Heroes on the west.
At the beginning of turn 3, Taco will activate the energy wave. Mind the positioning and remember to activate a Dragon Vein.
Heal your "tank" on the east and move it forward to bait the Paladin, the Master Ninja and the Wyverns. On the east, move a "tank" with an anti-armour weapon to bait the Generals and the Master Ninja. The Master Ninjas are the most dangerous of the lot because they will double you, de-buff you and Poison you, before the rest of the enemies attack.

3. The energy wave hits the barriers.
Clearing the east side should be easier, for the Wyverns are weak against bows and have no Resistance, while the Paladin can be one-hit by a Beast Killer or killed by a Hunter's Knife. The Generals on the west are trickier because of Wary Fighter and that skill that halves damage of certain weapons. Kill the Maids in the process.
Depending on your party composition, move to and unpair as many units as possible on one side of the map.

4. March forward. There are two Paladin & Bow Knight pairs on the east, and two Paladin & Dark Knight pairs on the west.
Again, depending on your party composition, one side will be easier than the other. The idea is to kill as many pairs as possible on Player Phase (two are always possible, three is great), Freeze one and sustain one attack and one Hex.

5. You should now be able to reach Taco. Time the blocking bar. Use Braves and Sorcerers with Lightning.

 

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I’ve beaten the game successfully with 10 units! 

Not only that, but this is my first time beating conquest ever!

I must say it’s been one heck of a ride.

My personal thoughts? Hexing Rod should never be in another fire emblem title ever again! It is such an unfair staff for the player to have to deal with.

Otherwise, several of the maps wre definitely challenging (Takumi’s map with 10 units is no joke) but it is certainly doable. 

I remember when I initially scoffed at the idea of doing this game with 10 units and no Camilla/Xander/Leo but I am pleasantly surprised to say that it is possible.

Edited by Dr. C

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On 9/17/2020 at 8:12 PM, Dr. C said:

I remember when I initially scoffed at the idea of doing this game with 10 units and no Camilla/Xander/Leo but I am pleasantly surprised to say that it is possible.

The following message from this thread will forever haunt you, mate. 😈
 

On 5/12/2020 at 7:07 PM, Dr. C said:

Forgive my skepticism but having seen the unfair bs that Lunatic throws at you

(Glares at Kitsune Chapter, Iggy and Siegbert paralogues with particular dishonorable mentions) 

I really don’t see how you could beat the game with no royals and no backpacks let alone with just 10 units!

Seal skills on enemies wreck entire armies if you can’t ORKO them (Seal Speed being worst of them ALL) 

How on earth did you accomplish this and if you did accomplish it?

Ive been on conquer lunatic for almost 2 years now! 


Four months later, you got the answer by yourself.
At least you now know that the offensive and defensive thresholds can always be met with less units and no royals. Conquest on Hard is challenging, but it is always fair. On Lunatic, it is fair for twenty seven chapters. 😜

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