CYL3 results for missing heroes

[Emperor Hardin]

2 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

It's so irrational that they've forgotten Lekain that I've started to like and appreciate the character more because of it. So much that if they do add him next year, I'll vote for him in protest at least once.

When comparing all major villains, most of which had been corrupted by some dark force or another, he was entirely still sane of mind and probably one of the most naturally crooked and evil.

I consider Lekain the main antagonist of the game, note he gets a battle conversation with almost every character.

[Vince777]

1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I consider Lekain the main antagonist of the game, note he gets a battle conversation with almost every character.

Wonder if there's anything that can be done about including such characters in the poll. 

 

[Othin]

20 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Andorey made multiple appearances in generation 1 and was pivotal to both Brigid and Edain's story, as well as playing a part in Mahnya's demise.

Scipio was mentioned in Generation 1. He was also one of only three non playable master knights in the game. They made him that class for a reason.

They both have far more then someone like Mustafa who made only one single appearance and then died.

Hold on. Mustafa is minor, but VERY memorable, particularly in terms of setting tone. There are minor bosses here with questionable status, but he isn't one of them.

[Emperor Hardin]

7 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

Wonder if there's anything that can be done about including such characters in the poll. 

 

Perhaps voting for more Radiant Dawn characters in that Japanese survey?

Just now, Othin said:

Hold on. Mustafa is minor, but VERY memorable, particularly in terms of setting tone. There are minor bosses here with questionable status, but he isn't one of them.

He was sympathetic, thats it. And he was still forced to fight the protagonist by Gangrel rather then acting out of loyalty to Plegia. 

He wasn't that memorable, there have been sympathetic minor bosses many times in the past.

[Othin]

8 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

He was sympathetic, thats it. And he was still forced to fight the protagonist by Gangrel rather then acting out of loyalty to Plegia. 

He wasn't that memorable, there have been sympathetic minor bosses many times in the past.

That's not what I was talking about. Honestly, the part about him being forced to fight isn't even one of the things I was remembering.

Quote

Mustafa
Ylisseans! I offer you mercy! Surrender to me now and live!

Basilio
Surrender? Sorry, I'm not familiar with the word.

Mustafa
Emmeryn would not have wished for this to come to bloodshed.

Chrom
Don't speak her name!

Mustafa
Your rage is justified, Prince Chrom. But the meaning of your sister's final sacrifice was not lost on me. I suspect many Plegians who heard her final words would say the same. If you lay down your weapons, I vow to protect you as best I can.

Frederick
How can we trust you after what your barbarous king has done? I think we shall take our chance with weapons in hand!

Mustafa
I suspected you would say as much. So be it, Prince Chrom. I shall endeavor to grant you a swift and dignified end.

Quote

Soldier
Forgive me, sir, but I...I no longer see the justice in hunting these people down. I accept any punishment you see fit, but after all that's happened...I just can't.

Wyvern Rider
How dare you question the general's orders! You know full well the punishment for insubordination is death!

Soldier
B-but, sir! These people are—

Mustafa
These questions are not ours to ponder, lad. The soldier does not judge. The soldier delivers judgment.

Soldier
Sir, I... I cannot raise my lance against them. Even if... Even if it means death.

Mustafa
...You were there when Emmeryn spoke, weren't you? So be it! Those of you unwilling to fight are dismissed!

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Othin

[Emperor Hardin]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

That's not what I was talking about. Honestly, the part about him being forced to fight isn't even one of the things I was remembering.

Again, he was the only sympathetic Plegian boss, that says more about Awakening's conflicts in general then it does about Mustafa being memorable to the franchise.

[omegaxis1]

12 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Again, he was the only sympathetic Plegian boss, that says more about Awakening's conflicts in general then it does about Mustafa being memorable to the franchise.

Not quite. If he was sympathetic just because of sympathy, that wouldn't have made him memorable. What made him memorable is the timing of when it happens, the tone and setting of the chapter. The rain, the music, and the situation that happened after Emmeryn's death. These are all factors that made Mustafa very memorable because of how the tone of the chapter made it for a very sad time. 

 

[Othin]

3 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Again, he was the only sympathetic Plegian boss, that says more about Awakening's conflicts in general then it does about Mustafa being memorable to the franchise.

I already said the sympathetic part isn't what I'm talking about. It's how he fleshed out the tone and impact of Emmeryn's death.

You can talk as much about Awakening's issues and how he wasn't memorable to you, but as a part of Awakening, he's memorable to a lot of people. More people than the number who even know who Scipio is, I'd be willing to bet.

(Relative prominence in a game is probably a better measure, to be fair. Mustafa is easily in the top 10 most memorable Awakening bosses, while within FE4, Scipio is like 20th place at most.)

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Othin said:

I already said the sympathetic part isn't what I'm talking about. It's how he fleshed out the tone and impact of Emmeryn's death.

 

True. He is pretty much the only seen instance of the impact of Emm's death. Without him, I don't think we get any felt idea of the demoralization and desire for peace Emm inflicted on the Plegian soldiers. That is important, since it gives show and makes it more than just tell.

 

Well this list more or less obsolete's my faulty effort. No reason to continue then I guess.

[Emperor Hardin]

6 minutes ago, Othin said:

(Relative prominence in a game is probably a better measure, to be fair. Mustafa is easily in the top 10 most memorable Awakening bosses, while within FE4, Scipio is like 20th place at most.)

Scipio is in a game with a lot of memorable bosses, I'd say. The Tellius games were also filled with memorable bosses.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

True. He is pretty much the only seen instance of the impact of Emm's death. Without him, I don't think we get any felt idea of the demoralization and desire for peace Emm inflicted on the Plegian soldiers. That is important, since it gives show and makes it more than just tell.

4

Precisely. The very timing of when this transpires is what makes this be so memorable. Mustafa fights because he's forced to, but what makes this sadder is because he and others were truly touched by Emmeryn's sacrifice and truly didn't want to fight.

Just now, Emperor Hardin said:

Scipio is in a game with a lot of memorable bosses, I'd say. The Tellius games were also filled with memorable bosses.

It helps that many bosses end up getting a lot of boss conversations with other characters, even if they have no relations to them. This really made Tellius stand out a lot more.

[Othin]

6 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Scipio is in a game with a lot of memorable bosses, I'd say. The Tellius games were also filled with memorable bosses.

FE4 does have an unusually high number of noteworthy bosses. I think Tellius did a better job of making a large number of bosses memorable, personally.

I would say a larger percentage of Awakening fans consider Mustafa memorable than the percentage of FE4 fans who consider Scipio memorable. (This is backed up by the fact that Mustafa got 23 times as many votes on CYL3 than Scipio. Incidentally, 23 is more than the number of votes Scipio got.)

[Emperor Hardin]

5 minutes ago, Othin said:

FE4 does have an unusually high number of noteworthy bosses. I think Tellius did a better job of making a large number of bosses memorable, personally.

I would say a larger percentage of Awakening fans consider Mustafa memorable than the percentage of FE4 fans who consider Scipio memorable. (This is backed up by the fact that Mustafa got 23 times as many votes on CYL3 than Scipio. Incidentally, 23 is more than the number of votes Scipio got.)

In Tellius, every minor boss got one or more unique battle conversations, so yes that would be correct. In Awakening, there are very few unique battle conversations period.

As mentioned, Scipio has far more competition.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

In Tellius, every minor boss got one or more unique battle conversations, so yes that would be correct. In Awakening, there are very few unique battle conversations period.

As mentioned, Scipio has far more competition.

But the Awakening villains that do have conversations are all memorable nonetheless. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

But the Awakening villains that do have conversations are all memorable nonetheless. 

If only AversaxChrom stayed true! That was actually quite good. 

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

1 hour ago, Vince777 said:

He's Andorey's son, both of which probably don't belong in CYL. 

If I'm missing something, it's certainly been a while, feel free to make a case for them.

CYL is all-encompassing, and it's better that even irrelevant and minor bosses can have a shot. There is always a chance for someone to be John Scott. John Scott was voted into the NHL All-Star game as an internet joke. The All-star game is for the league's best players, and John Scott was totally unskilled. The league tried to deny him his spot, but he refused to not go. He did well in the game to be the MVP. The All-star is also not serious, as the participants take it easy since it is a meaningless game.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

If only AversaxChrom stayed true! That was actually quite good. 

God, how it would have been so much more of an improvement if Aversa was actually a victim of Chrom's father. Though some argue that even if she was given a false memory of who killed her family and village, her actions were still based of her own will because she believed that Validar was her savior. 

But contextually speaking, it would have been far more memorable if Validar was actually her savior.

[Vince777]

If that’s the rule, have it apply to all the games.

Not deny Lekain and yet give every villain with a custom portrait from Echoes a spot.

[Ottservia]

52 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

God, how it would have been so much more of an improvement if Aversa was actually a victim of Chrom's father. Though some argue that even if she was given a false memory of who killed her family and village, her actions were still based of her own will because she believed that Validar was her savior. 

But contextually speaking, it would have been far more memorable if Validar was actually her savior.

totally agree that would've added so much more depth and moral ambiguity to her, chrom, the grimleal, and even grima himself and it all would've tied so nicely into the first arch of the story with gangrel. Damnit such a simple yet extremely effective change.

[Mercakete]

Well, in announcement to those who helped vote for Elena, she got 415th place with an even 300 votes! (And tying with Oscar from FE9/10) Thank you all for your efforts and contributions!

So, she's not even in the top half of the poll, but Greil managed to place 119th with 2258 votes! That's even higher than Mist, who got 147th place with 1765 votes! Given the connection Elena has to her family (and especially to Greil) this gives me hope that she will gain more recognition my osmosis in the years to come, and thereby more votes! This family will yet be brought together, and Geil and Elena will finally be playable for the first time! And, for the first time, Elena will be able to directly interact with people, instead of simply being a memory. Given her sacrificial actions, she certainly deserves a "brave" title, as that's one of the words I'd use to describe her most accurately, the others being "faithful" and "compassionate." I'm looking forward to getting to know this lady better, and so looking forward to the day she's added to Heroes. :)

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Ottservia said:

totally agree that would've added so much more depth and moral ambiguity to her, chrom, the grimleal, and even grima himself and it all would've tied so nicely into the first arch of the story with gangrel. Damnit such a simple yet extremely effective change.

Honestly speaking, the entire plot of Awakening, even Walhart's Valm invasion, could have been connected with Chrom's father.

Why does Gangrel and Plegia hate Ylisse and want war? Cause Chrom's father attacked them in a bloody war.

Why does Walhart try to invade the continent? Because Chrom's father fighting a crusade to eliminate the Grimleal is something he feels is the fault of religion in general, as it is nothing more than Naga and Grima having a conflict and humans are the pawns carrying them out. 

Third arc of Grima: Everything that happened in the future is a result of Chrom's father. He attacks because he thinks that Grima might be revived, but this in turn makes Robin's mother go to the Grimleal, have Robin, thus creating Grima, but also caused Ylisse's military to weaken which Emmeryn didn't try to restore completely because of her father, which allowed her assassination, then the wars, and then Validar getting everything together to revive Grima. 

[Emperor Hardin]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

God, how it would have been so much more of an improvement if Aversa was actually a victim of Chrom's father. Though some argue that even if she was given a false memory of who killed her family and village, her actions were still based of her own will because she believed that Validar was her savior. 

But contextually speaking, it would have been far more memorable if Validar was actually her savior.

I'm in the camp that Aversa's initial backstory made far mores sense and that the spot pass storyline invalidated her entire character.

With the initial backstory, we have both a character wronged by Ylisse's crusade, a foreshadowing of Chrom's ultimate decision, and an example of Robin if they followed Validar. With the spot pass story, we just have more of the Grimleal are bad and Aversa as a simple fan service character.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I'm in the camp that Aversa's initial backstory made far mores sense and that the spot pass storyline invalidated her entire character.

With the initial backstory, we have both a character wronged by Ylisse's crusade, a foreshadowing of Chrom's ultimate decision, and an example of Robin if they followed Validar. With the spot pass story, we just have more of the Grimleal are bad and Aversa as a simple fan service character.

Made even worse when Heroes!Aversa follows that same Spotpass Aversa. 

[bethany81707]

2 hours ago, Vince777 said:

Wonder if there's anything that can be done about including such characters in the poll. 

 

I sent them an email through the inquiries link I found on the CYL site. I got a not-encouraging response all but telling me to use the in-game feedback.