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So, in light of some recent events and accusations revolving around Vic Mignogna, I questioned what it would really take to stop stuff like this from happening. Putting emotions completely over facts and reason, the numbers, their influence; what do you do with them? And why should there be influence from them when it’s a completely negative one?

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What happened? All I've really heard that he's been accused of various things including sexual harassment, and that those claims were still ongoing. Unless I'm just misunderstanding what you're referring to.

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Well, you start by shifting your politics away from labeling people as "others", then you go from there. Lead by example.

If other people are doing it too, that's their choice. If you want to "stop an SJW," maybe begin by not referring to them as one.

Also, the harassment stuff against Mignogna is definitely far from unfounded. People I know are one or two degrees of separation from him and are unsurprised. 

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15 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

What happened? All I've really heard that he's been accused of various things including sexual harassment, and that those claims were still ongoing. Unless I'm just misunderstanding what you're referring to.

This is where I first found out what happened. All you need to see are the first 10-15 or so minutes. You can skip the very beginning if you need.

Apologies if you do not think this video is good enough to give my point.

Edited by Azure the Scale Tipper

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7 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

Also, the harassment stuff against Mignogna is definitely far from unfounded. People I know are one or two degrees of separation from him and are unsurprised. 

How so?

I have not exactly seen all sides of the argument yet, but so far most things other than maybe he harassment (such as accusations of homophobia) seem to be unfounded.

2 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

Can you summarize it?

Ok.

So Vic Mignogna has recently been labeled as everything you have seen in the thumbnail of the video on the previous post by some people. The homophobia stuff is in that first 10-15 minutes.

Really, many of these things have been addressed by Vic Mignogna himself here: 

https://mobile.twitter.com/vicmignogna/status/1087239820680880128

Despite this, his appearance at Kamicon (in Alabama) has been canceled. A friend of mine fears that these things will cause Rooster Teeth to write Qrow out of RWBY, as Vic voices that character. People are just trying to be safe and that’s understandable. But I see it as a little sad.

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7 minutes ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

How so?

I have not exactly seen all sides of the argument yet, but so far most things other than maybe he harassment (such as accusations of homophobia) seem to be unfounded.

I don't know about the homophobia but I've mostly heard about harassment which is bad enough as is.

7 minutes ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

Ok.

So Vic Mignogna has recently been labeled as everything you have seen in the thumbnail of the video on the previous post by some people. The homophobia stuff is in that first 10-15 minutes.

I've only ever heard things about harassment and generally being a dick. If you think that the rest of anything is more than some fringes and if your fear is that a character won't be VAd instead of, you know, the fact that he could potentially be a really bad person is kinda telling of where people's priorities are.

The SJW movement you're railing against is nothing much more than a fringe. You stop a movement by not giving it attention or at the very least trying to understand allegations and incorporate them into your viewpoints. You already failed at the first step; labeling them SJWs and then saying everything is unfounded despite the fact that at least some of the allegations have more truth to it than others.

 

EDIT: I would like to say that your OP is among the many concepts Sacha Baron Cohen parodied in Who Is America. 

Edited by Lord Raven

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2 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

I don't know about the homophobia but I've mostly heard about harassment which is bad enough as is.

I've only ever heard things about harassment and generally being a dick. If you think that the rest of anything is more than some fringes and if your fear is that a character won't be VAd instead of, you know, the fact that he could potentially be a really bad person is kinda telling of where people's priorities are. The SJW movement you're railing against is nothing much more than a fringe. You stop a movement by not giving it attention or at the very least trying to understand allegations and incorporate them into your viewpoints. You already failed at the first step; labeling them SJWs and then saying everything is unfounded despite the fact that at least some of the allegations have more truth to it than others.

Guess I need to shut up, then? Because I can.

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You talk about "Putting emotions completely over facts and reason, the numbers, their influence" but that's exactly what you're doing here. How do you know those accusations are false? Why are you taking the side of someone you don't even know? Is it just because he voices a character you like?

All statistics show that sexual harassement claims tend to be true most of the time, specially when they're made by multiple people. Why are you so eager on defending this guy that you don't even know, other than emotion in itself?

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All I'm going to say is that I wish I had an answer. Far too many people will dogpile and attack someone for things they don't even know are true. If Vic did assault or harass people then he should face the consequences of that. However, in the very real possibility that he hasn't done any of that, people need to leave him alone. But they won't because they're looking for someone to attack. He's just the latest.

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Mignogna's creepy behavior with underage female fans has been well-known and documented for years, so as far as I'm concerned any of the flak he's getting for it now is long overdue.

3 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

I don't know about the homophobia but I've mostly heard about harassment which is bad enough as is.

I'd imagine the homophobia accusations stem from a few infamous incidents where he spoke out against people doing same-sex fanart and fanfiction of his characters, to the point where he once put words in the mouths of the creators of Tsubasa Resevoir Chronicle, saying that they had told him that the character he voiced was straight even though it's CLAMP and their usage of LGBT themes and characters is well known.

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For what it's worth, I don't know about the homophobia claims myself. There was a video of him arguing with Christian protesters as a Christian about gay marriage. I don't think that's something a homophobe would do, at least not one on the level that the word implies.

The other claims are more personal and I don't really know enough to comment.

Edited by Tryhard

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1 minute ago, Tryhard said:

For what it's worth, I don't know about the homophobia claims myself. There was a video of him arguing with Christian protesters as a Christian about gay marriage. I don't think that's something a homophobe would do.

The other claims are more personal and I don't really know enough to comment.

To me it felt like a homophobia or Nazi allegation is people piling up on someone rather than something substantial. The harassment and bad PR are definitely more than enough to sink him and I'm unsure why people are grasping at straws.

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4 minutes ago, Nobody said:

You talk about "Putting emotions completely over facts and reason, the numbers, their influence" but that's exactly what you're doing here.

Okay, I guess I really do need to shut up.

I’m just not going to touch this Serious Discussion stuff, then. I feel I may be better suited in places where I do not need to be serious.

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How about a second opinion on Vic's actions. I've been a fan of Vic for years, but I can't anymore after reading that article and some of the comments. It's pretty damning.

28 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

Well, you start by shifting your politics away from labeling people as "others", then you go from there. Lead by example.

If other people are doing it too, that's their choice. If you want to "stop an SJW," maybe begin by not referring to them as one.

Also, the harassment stuff against Mignogna is definitely far from unfounded. People I know are one or two degrees of separation from him and are unsurprised. 

Also this, 100%. The acronym "SJW" is pretty awful and you really shouldn't use it.

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I heard that if you invest in Bitcoin and like every youtube video saying The Last Jedi is bad it'll make the SJWs go away. However, if you haven't shouted at a woman in a hijab in the last month, don't bother, it won't work.

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Okay, I said I was going to shut up, but I am starting to get the point here. Guess I should have trusted myself and not “put any stock in politics”.

Some side of me wants this thread locked up and never touched again.

And now I will shut up.

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45 minutes ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

This is where I first found out what happened. All you need to see are the first 10-15 or so minutes. You can skip the very beginning if you need.

Apologies if you do not think this video is good enough to give my point.

You don't even need to watch the video to know you're in for some morally reprehensible, factually questionable gibberish from an angry, unintelligent cretin when the video thumbnail has "SJW" slapped on a random screaming person. I've watched enough of this cancer already.

Edited by Etheus

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I have a feeling this topic will end up being locked sooner rather than later, partly because I doubt mods will look kindly on the culture war nonsense on Serenes but also because the topic title is somewhat misleading. 

I did hear Vic had some Me Too business surrounding him but I'm not really knowledgeable about the subject to make any conclusion on the matter. But I do know its not an SJW issue. #Me Too isn't those eeeevil SJW's overreacting and ruining your fun. Usually its really about line crossing behavior. Kevin Spacy or Weinstein weren't victims of SJW but were caught in acts that are line crossing whether you're a SJW socialist out to subjugate  video games or an alt right extremist waging war in to protect the ''glorious'' male master race. That you shouldn't act without consent is likely(and hopefully) a belief held by both extremes and just about every opinion in between. 

And I don't really think there's a dire need to stop SJW's because their numbers and influence aren't nearly as big as people think it is. Its a fringe group of extremely small numbers and practically no one in that group has a position of influence. Maybe some people in position of influences are somewhat sympathetic to some points but they aren't members of the small fringe community which remains very small and generally dabbles in behavior that keeps them from advancement. A CEO who makes decision about video games or a high ranking Hollywood elite who cast actors are generally quite dull people who are supposed to be act dull and professional. Wacky fringe idiot screaming against the patriarchy or on the other end those who loudly proclaim the virtues of the alt right are likely to miss promotions if their boss gets to know of it.

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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What. I hope this stuff isn't true, this guy voices my favorite Pokemon (Keldeo). Well, he did in Pokemon: Kyurem vs the Sword of Justice. RIP any chances of him voicing Keldeo again should the little guy return to the screen now though, I'm certain. :(

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I want the allegations to be false as much as anyone. Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood is my favorite anime ever, meaning that his work did play a part in my childhood.

But allegations shouldn't just be called "SJW bullshit" and discredited without trial. They also shouldn't be assumed to be truthful in the court of public opinion, because that is an even more dangerous breach of justice. They are allegations, to be taken seriously and examined justly.

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Ok. I am going to say one last thing before I really shut up.

I have started to not stand looking at this on Hot Topic. I know posting one more time will make it worse, but I have tried to contact @eclipse. Told her that I wanted this locked.

So, the answer to my initial question? Shut up. Don’t give it any attention. Especially if you just make content for entertainment usually (should have learned from JonTron, actually).

I apologize to you all for this thread. Be glad it will not last much longer.

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11 minutes ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

So, the answer to my initial question? Shut up. Don’t give it any attention.

This applies to any group of individuals who are fringe and spouting things you consider utter non-sense. Attention is what anyone who is saying something controversial desires, so by giving it to them, you're only encouraging disruptive behavior. This isn't to say don't pay attention to people you don't agree with, you absolutely should, but make sure you follow the facts and consider every side before making a definitive stance on an issue

As for Vic, I personally love the guy. He seems like an upstanding dude. That said, while some of the accusations are obviously absurd, like him being a Nazi or homophobic, I have seen some of the evidence of him being a tad pedophilic and other questionable behaviors, and while some of it is a little shaky, there's enough of it that holds up to scrutiny that I feel confident in saying that it was right to call him out for it. As for him being a jerk at points, I can't really fault him too much for that. When you spend so much time in public life, you're going to slip up at many points and be rude to people who don't deserve it since they pushed your buttons wrong. Is it the right behavior? Absolutely not, but it does make some sense as to why he would do it at points.

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Saw the thread title and thought I had ruffled feathers, or that I was going to. Glad a lot of you guys have already said the kinds of things I intended to say.

@Azure the Scale Tipper Don't worry too much about how this reflects on you, since you listened to what people had to say on the subject instead of doing what most "anti-essjaydubs" do, which is deny deny deny. It's important to take allegations like these seriously, or else there's no chance of the behavior changing, nor any kind of justice for victims. It sucks when an actor, writer, etc does something that lets us down, and there's nothing we can do to change that, but rest assured that it doesn't reflect on you for enjoying any work they've done that doesn't reflect their shit behavior.

Keep in mind, as others have pointed out, that SJW is a term generally used by idiots, misogynists, white supremacists, etc, and is not wise to use since it 1) makes you sound like you subscribe to their kind of thinking (whether you do or not), and 2) doesn't really describe the person they're complaining about. In this case, it would be most accurate to describe them as "accusers".

For anyone seeking details on the accused, I found this in-depth listing on ResetEra (more details at the link):

Spoiler

With regards to sexual conduct:

With regards to antisemitism:

With regards to homophobia:

With regards to general behavior/how he is seen by coworkers:

Edited by Johann

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43 minutes ago, Johann said:

Saw the thread title and thought I had ruffled feathers, or that I was going to. Glad a lot of you guys have already said the kinds of things I intended to say.

@Azure the Scale Tipper Don't worry too much about how this reflects on you, since you listened to what people had to say on the subject instead of doing what most "anti-essjaydubs" do, which is deny deny deny. It's important to take allegations like these seriously, or else there's no chance of the behavior changing, nor any kind of justice for victims. It sucks when an actor, writer, etc does something that lets us down, and there's nothing we can do to change that, but rest assured that it doesn't reflect on you for enjoying any work they've done that doesn't reflect their shit behavior.

Keep in mind, as others have pointed out, that SJW is a term generally used by idiots, misogynists, white supremacists, etc, and is not wise to use since it 1) makes you sound like you subscribe to their kind of thinking (whether you do or not), and 2) doesn't really describe the person they're complaining about. In this case, it would be most accurate to describe them as "accusers".

For anyone seeking details on the accused, I found this in-depth listing on ResetEra (more details at the link):

  Hide contents

With regards to sexual conduct:

With regards to antisemitism:

With regards to homophobia:

With regards to general behavior/how he is seen by coworkers:

Thank you.

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