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If you had to make the Norne/Frey/Athena/Katarina/Faye of Genealogy, what would you do?

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5 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, I have put thought on that. Some alternate/additional ideas I have is that he would show up in Chapter 9 regardless so long he was alive by the time Gen1 ended (even if he wasn't recruited in Gen1, in fact), but the matter of recruitment was what wasn't fully cemented. At first I was with a more standard method in that he could be recruited if he got paired up by having his children talk to him, before thinking it'd be more interesting if his recruitment was if he wasn't paired up (or perhaps even without recruiting him back at Silvail; so avoid recuriting him in Gen1 means you can now recruit him in Gen2). Of course, there'd had to be a reason he wouldn't be recruited if he was paired up, so having him die or some other way indisposed would have to be the case. Then again, someone like Edain survives regardless if paired or not but never rejoins, apparently staying behind in Tirnanogue. Then agian, what are the chances a remake may actually have her join again? So who knows. I'd still want him to only be recruitable in only one state, though.

I didn't consider making the unit female since, if not paired up, there'd still be the mandatory substitute units (of course, we could have an exception where you don't get substitues for this particular unpaired female unit, but then perhaps too much of a radical idea). That'd still be something, even if on average the substitues aren't up to par with the child units. So here it would between the unit and the two substitutes (3) versus two child units (2). Who knows how balanced would that be, but it would be a +1 unit gain. Hmm...

Hahaha, I did consider that about leaving even if paired up. Though the rationaile of the whole "deserts if unpaired, stays if not" is that he never got attached to the group beyond being a source of gold (though it would make for an interesting mechanic if a Genealogy remake includes a proper support system; he leaves if not enough A's, an S optional or not as well). When you consider the lover convos that unlock when you conquer Phinora, perhaps this could be a topic of conversation for the ones he would have access to, mentioning his desire to leave. In fact, when you look at some of the convos, you can see some of the guys tell their wives to flee. Of course, in the gameplay, you still have everybody for the fight with Reptor and his troops, but from a story perspective, perhaps the reason most of the women survived was because they really did left, and thus were never present for the BBQ party? So he could be also one that left in the plot but stayed for the gameplay. Anyway, I'd still not want to make him that much of a jerk, all in all.

That choice between the Earth Sword and Mystletainn sounds interesting. Though I think that unless the Earth Sword got a big buff to compensate, almost everybody would prefer the Holy Weapon.

To keep unit balance on tact he could get a substitute on Gen 2. The you're looking at either him and two subs, or his two kids and one sub.

I'm not so sure people would choose Mystletainn. You'd get the Earth Sword immediately while it would take much longer to get access Mystletainn. You'd also have to factor in that killing Eldigan as opposed to having Lachesis merely talking to him is way more difficult to pull off. Instead of handing it to you, it becomes a case of earn your holy weapon.

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27 minutes ago, Jotari said:

To keep unit balance on tact he could get a substitute on Gen 2. The you're looking at either him and two subs, or his two kids and one sub.

I'm not so sure people would choose Mystletainn. You'd get the Earth Sword immediately while it would take much longer to get access Mystletainn. You'd also have to factor in that killing Eldigan as opposed to having Lachesis merely talking to him is way more difficult to pull off. Instead of handing it to you, it becomes a case of earn your holy weapon.

Hmm, that can be a good way to balance things if the unit was female. The idea of the guy not having a "substitue" was more in the sense of character slots. Genealogy uses the same slots in the data for both Gens, simply switching the data when the transition happens. I guess I wanted to be a bit meta in that sense. So if the guy was the 25th party member and only new addition, then it'd be a case of still having 25 units in Gen2 or bumped down to 24. Not that it matters much since in the whole game we almost never have all 24 slots of the party filled. Never in Gen1 (Dierdre is kidnapped before Claude and Tiltyu join; and the Leonster trio leave eventually anyway), and in Gen2 only during the latter half of Chapter 9 before Julia is also kidnapped; and once again when she's recruited back, when the game is right at the ending.

Really? Because the Earth Sword is... well, while it does have good things like the HP sap effect, casting the Resire spell, and negating Big Shield, the Mystletainn still has more than double the Earth Sword's MT (12 vs 30!), 10 more Hit... and also increases Skill+20 and Res+10, and gives the Critical Skill (though in a remake this might instead be a sizeable crit boost). The Mystletainn also has the standard 50 uses while the Earth Sword is pretty much the only non-saff weapon with less uses. Much less uses. Just 10. Unless either or both swords get changed to make it more fair, the Holy Weapon is still going to be more desireable.

Not that making the Holy Weapons actually a feat to obtain is a bad idea. Still, I would think having to choose it over a non Holy Weapon is still a bit unfair for the Earth Sword. Besides, from a story standpoint, the Mystletainn would just be, like the Balmung, be placed in Yied Shrine, still in reach for the Liberation Army to obtain. Also I would then question why, say, Manfroy didn't took Forseti off Lewyn's corpse or something (though imagine if this did happened, negating us being able to have Forseti from Chapter 6 if Arthur is the weapon's heir); if we add a "the sect members start grabbing the Holy Weapons the moment they're easy pickings" aspect to them. Probably that's just me, though.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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Unless his story is changed (mainly, Julius doesn't warp him away), he'd join a third into the final chapter. Not exactly stellar availability to say "Yay, second Dragon Knight!".

 

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3 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Hmm, that can be a good way to balance things if the unit was female. The idea of the guy not having a "substitue" was more in the sense of character slots. Genealogy uses the same slots in the data for both Gens, simply switching the data when the transition happens. I guess I wanted to be a bit meta in that sense. So if the guy was the 25th party member and only new addition, then it'd be a case of still having 25 units in Gen2 or bumped down to 24. Not that it matters much since in the whole game we almost never have all 24 slots of the party filled. Never in Gen1 (Dierdre is kidnapped before Claude and Tiltyu join; and the Leonster trio leave eventually anyway), and in Gen2 only during the latter half of Chapter 9 before Julia is also kidnapped; and once again when she's recruited back, when the game is right at the ending.

Really? Because the Earth Sword is... well, while it does have good things like the HP sap effect, casting the Resire spell, and negating Big Shield, the Mystletainn still has more than double the Earth Sword's MT (12 vs 30!), 10 more Hit... and also increases Skill+20 and Res+10, and gives the Critical Skill (though in a remake this might instead be a sizeable crit boost). The Mystletainn also has the standard 50 uses while the Earth Sword is pretty much the only non-saff weapon with less uses. Much less uses. Just 10. Unless either or both swords get changed to make it more fair, the Holy Weapon is still going to be more desireable.

Not that making the Holy Weapons actually a feat to obtain is a bad idea. Still, I would think having to choose it over a non Holy Weapon is still a bit unfair for the Earth Sword. Besides, from a story standpoint, the Mystletainn would just be, like the Balmung, be placed in Yied Shrine, still in reach for the Liberation Army to obtain. Also I would then question why, say, Manfroy didn't took Forseti off Lewyn's corpse or something (though imagine if this did happened, negating us being able to have Forseti from Chapter 6 if Arthur is the weapon's heir); if we add a "the sect members start grabbing the Holy Weapons the moment they're easy pickings" aspect to them. Probably that's just me, though.

I would like it the lopt sect did take the Holy Weapons or at least if they were obtained in some other way. They do it for Tyrfing it feels odd they don't do it for the others. I think originally Holsety was supposed to be locked off from the player until Chapter 10 in which Levin would have given it to his kid in that one conversation.

Regarding the unit numbers between the two gens, I'm pretty sure that's the main reason Areone isn't playable, there was no space for him in the castle. Though they do narratively make his allied over player status make sense. Areone is actually another instance where I'd have a choice scenario. He's one of the few story bosses that you can beat without killing, I think siezing his castle without killing him should be the only way to get him to appear in end game and become your ally. Julius warping in doesn't really make sense. He doesn't do that for any of the other holy weapon units (aside from Ishtar where it does make sense. Hmm, maybe Julius was having an affair with Areone).

Edited by Jotari

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I would like it the lopt sect did take the Holy Weapons or at least if they were obtained in some other way. They do it for Tyrfing it feels odd they don't do it for the others. I think originally Holsety was supposed to be locked off from the player until Chapter 10 in which Levin would have given it to his kid in that one conversation.

Regarding the unit numbers between the two gens, I'm pretty sure that's the main reason Areone isn't playable, there was no space for him in the castle. Though they do narratively make his allied over player status make sense. Areone is actually another instance where I'd have a choice scenario. He's one of the few story bosses that you can beat without killing, I think siezing his castle without killing him should be the only way to get him to appear in end game and become your ally. Julius warping in doesn't really make sense. He doesn't do that for any of the other holy weapon units (aside from Ishtar where it does make sense. Hmm, maybe Julius was having an affair with Areone).

Don't forget they also had the Balmung. Though with the Tyrfing, was it really the sect? It looked more like it was Arvis who had it, not the sect. Unless he stole it, but I don't think there's an indication for that. I think I heard that about the the tome. That one conversation? If you mean the ones with a few of his potential daughters... well, doubt it was in those, since it would be his son the one to use it. Probably a different conversation that was never made.

As Altenna theorizes in her Ch10 talk with Leif, Julius wanted him on his side. The final chapter narrative states the Crusader bloodlines had effectively split between the light and dark. With Travant dead, Areone was the only one left with major of his bloodline. He likely didn't warp to save Dannan since there was still Burian. Same for Blume since there was still Ishtar. By the happenings of Chapter 9, the Liberation Army can already held potentially up to 5 Holy Weapons and having the people to wield them, plus two more major holders though without the weapons. Then you have Altenna joining them, and the numbers were now skewing against the Empire. Julius then ensured they wouldn't loose yet one more, hence taking Areone away.

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25 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Don't forget they also had the Balmung. Though with the Tyrfing, was it really the sect? It looked more like it was Arvis who had it, not the sect. Unless he stole it, but I don't think there's an indication for that. I think I heard that about the the tome. That one conversation? If you mean the ones with a few of his potential daughters... well, doubt it was in those, since it would be his son the one to use it. Probably a different conversation that was never made.

As Altenna theorizes in her Ch10 talk with Leif, Julius wanted him on his side. The final chapter narrative states the Crusader bloodlines had effectively split between the light and dark. With Travant dead, Areone was the only one left with major of his bloodline. He likely didn't warp to save Dannan since there was still Burian. Same for Blume since there was still Ishtar. By the happenings of Chapter 9, the Liberation Army can already held potentially up to 5 Holy Weapons and having the people to wield them, plus two more major holders though without the weapons. Then you have Altenna joining them, and the numbers were now skewing against the Empire. Julius then ensured they wouldn't loose yet one more, hence taking Areone away.

The bad guys getting Tyrfing and getting Balmung was done in two different ways. Balmung would have been obtained during the conquering of Isaach while Tyrfing was a spoil during the big barbecue. Point is if they could get Tyrfing then I think the other weapons could have been similarly scattered and required effort on the player's part to obtain instead of magical being gained via the mystical inheritance system.

He also won't attempt to protect Facial if you choose to kill him and never even mentions Brian. 

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The substitute kids can fill the role in Genealogy and even Thracia. There's enough characters in FE4, I don't think new ones are needed.

 

In Genealogy remake the substitutes probably will have fixed classes and skills. A reclass system can be added similar to Fates and Awakening in which the substitutes can access classes now previously available or rare classes, so it can give a reason for them to the playable. 

 

In Thracia some of the subs were supposed to be fleshed characters so this idea can be implemented. Other than  that, the kids saved by the child hunt, Romeo and Yubel, can be introduced as trainee-like characters for more diversity. 

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