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The State of Global Politics Today


Shoblongoo
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1 hour ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

That Obama wished to do as well but everyone on the right and the establishment in general were just ready to vilify him at every turn for it. No matter how much progress Trump or Pompeo say they've been making with North Korea, the intelligence agencies all run by Trump appointees will contradict him if it's a lie because it sure as hell is

 

While true, the majority of it is as a result the economy he inherited from Obama as the guy's only been in power for 2 years and it hasn't been that much time to truly see the effects of his policies plus, barring the recent 300k, his numbers have been lower than Obama on his way out which is more indicative of how less effective he is for the country and further backs up the notion that he's just riding the Obama economy. The 300k number is rather interesting as it defies expectations but it'd probably best for analysts to look into the matter and see how this ended up happening. Nevertheless, good for the country. 

What we do know though is that he's walking the same path as W Bush in terms of economic policies like lowering taxes on the rich. Another thing we do know is that he's fucked the middle class and now they have to pay more taxes because several exemptions they used are now gone or more difficult to obtain. 

 

No he hasn't, he's most likely done the opposite. He's empowered white supremacists, lunatic bigots and right extremists so effectively that apparently, right-wingers were the ones that committed every 2018 extremist murder, nothing's been done about gun control so we're pretty much still averaging mass shootings at a rate of 1 per day each year (not too long ago there was 6 cases in the span of 4 days that mainstream media didn't cover), it isn't difficult to find news of his supporters assaulting people who are just going about their day like Jussie Smollett and the "MAGA COUNTRY" incident, a 91-year-old man who's here legally beaten to near death and several of the mass shooters or people who intended to kill others that were reported on the news were Trump supporters/right-wing:

What Trump has truly done is appealed to bigots and racists in the country who suddenly think that now that Obama's gone and Trump is in charge, they can go out and act like non-whites are lesser beings while right-wing nuts will immediately think that any terrorist act done by a white individual is just something fake or staged like the Las Vegas shooter. It isn't difficult to pull up cases where Trump supporters have gotten arrested for their bigotry these days.

Not to mention the blunders he's made regarding Puerto Rico like taking money that was allocated to be spent for relief there and re-allocating it to ICE, something that we don't need and a haven for rapists.

Then's there the shutdown that went on for a month that was causing problems for investigations and a recent report from his own administration that doesn't even mention the wall as necessary

It's also safe to say he's empowering dictators affecting the politics of other countries by acting as an example of how horrible Democratic elections can be when you have a party like today's GOP in control.

No he hasn't. He is among the rich folks who hire undocumented workers and falsify documents to keep them. His properties have only recently started firing undocumented workers because he's been caught and that makes him look bad with his base. He's been hurting small businesses with his changes to LEGAL immigration and the policy he made to separate kids from their parents at the border was nothing but a monstrous abuse of executive power as he's essentially kidnapping children of people who are seeking asylum when they're able to do so at the border. The administration had a court order to return those kids back to their parents, there's still many that haven't been returned and the administration is essentially saying they're no longer interested because they view it as impossible. Additionally, illegal immigrants end up taking jobs that Americans don't want but you don't have to take that from me, hear it from Trump supporters who voted for him. The a lot of the illegal immigration in the country are actually people that come in legally but just overstay their visas. They still pay taxes (probably more than Trump percentage-wise) and chip in to Social Security and Medicare while being unable to reap benefits of citizenship.

Your view of this orange turd appears to be grounded in a fantasy. You should consider looking at different sources for information but you're also free to continue being fooled by this conman.

 

Are you implying that I'm oblivious for believing in our current president? I'm not going to question your beliefs (I'm not going to hound someone over a controversial belief, since that'd be incredibly hypocritical and obnoxious of me), but insulting me doesn't make your argument any stronger.

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3 minutes ago, ConquestVeteran said:

Are you implying that I'm oblivious for believing in our current president? I'm not going to question your beliefs (I'm not going to hound someone over a controversial belief, since that'd be incredibly hypocritical and obnoxious of me), but insulting me doesn't make your argument any stronger.

In my mind, it depends on what you think about Bush and Obama. Is it a support for a current president because they're a president or do you genuinely think Trump is performing better than other presidents and why.

Most people defending Trump now tend to not like those two, despite similarities between them.

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6 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

In my mind, it depends on what you think about Bush and Obama. Is it a support for a current president because they're a president or do you genuinely think Trump is performing better than other presidents and why.

Most people defending Trump now tend to not like those two, despite similarities between them.

I have faith in the current president, as our country's structure allows for other members of our government to check each other to punish wrongdoing if necessary. If our president is proven guilty of doing something wrong, we have the power to impeach him for his wrongdoing. I guess you could say it's more faith in our justice system than the president himself, but you get the picture. 

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5 minutes ago, ConquestVeteran said:

Are you implying that I'm oblivious for believing in our current president?

Yes and No. But mostly yes.

"No" because if Trump were to actually take action on the GOOD promises he made like draining the swamp, healthcare for all, more affordable college

"Yes" because you're clearly demonstrating ignorance and obliviousness to what's actually going on with this administration and Trump's doing none of the GOOD promises he brought up during his campaign run. Seriously dude, don't take it from me, hear it from his own supporters.

Oh and he's a criminal, there's enough evidence of several crimes committed by people and organizations likely directed by him (at least 1 has already been confirmed made available to the public) that is being passed around to State prosecutors, probably to prevent him from getting a pardon. It's only a matter of time before he gets indicted and even if he were to fire Mueller at this time, the state prosecutions would keep going.

5 minutes ago, ConquestVeteran said:

but insulting me doesn't make your argument any stronger.

You're right, it doesn't. My intent wasn't to insult you, it's just the reality of the situation, not beliefs. The posts you've made here prove that you've been fooled because you literally said "it's clear he has our nation's best interest at heart", if that were true, he would never say he doesn't care about debt because he won't be around by the time the debt becomes a real issue. We also know he's a conman via the results Trump University case.

He's a conman and you have been fooled like many others. But it's ok, you're free to continue being fooled by this conman. It's your right and no one will take that away from you.

19 minutes ago, ConquestVeteran said:

I have faith in the current president, as our country's structure allows for other members of our government to check each other to punish wrongdoing if necessary. If our president is proven guilty of doing something wrong, we have the power to impeach him for his wrongdoing. I guess you could say it's more faith in our justice system than the president himself, but you get the picture. 

More evidence of your obliviousness. Clinton had less problems and was impeached while the GOP pushed for it. Trump tops Nixon as the more blatant example of a corrupt and criminal president because a portion of the government body that's supposed to be a check and balance to the president isn't doing his job and is instead doing all it can to obstruct the truth instead.

Trump said he'd release his Taxes when he ran on the campaign. If he did and there was no problem with them, this would clear him of the allegations of Tax fraud that are on him. Instead he keeps hiding and the Republicans are helping. If he were innocent, it would be in his best interests to just let the Democrats see the tax returns, if nothing comes up, the Democrats would stay silent because they have no ammo against him and Trump would just take advantage of that make them look like absolute liars. 

Trump said he had no dealings with Russia and that there's no collusion or "conspiracy to defraud the United States", the documents related to the Trump Moscow project disprove that. Republicans did nothing but block the Mueller prove as much as they could and keep on pushing the Hillary e-mail conspiracy until they secured as many seats as they could from the midterms

Trump likes to believe he's done nothing wrong, the aforementioned Trump University case and the recent Trump Charity shut down disprove that. Republicans won't tell you that this happened and will respond to it with silence.

I don't know if Trump will be impeached, it's quite doubtful because the Republicans have proven that they cannot be trusted and they're more interested in giving tax cuts to the rich and have no interest in making sure people affected by the shutdown get paid. Truly a party and president with the US' best interest at heart.

Anyway I'm done, this'll only derail the thread further if it continues and you're not worth it.

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31 minutes ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Yes and No. But mostly yes.

"No" because if Trump were to actually take action on the GOOD promises he made like draining the swamp, healthcare for all, more affordable college

"Yes" because you're clearly demonstrating ignorance and obliviousness to what's actually going on with this administration and Trump's doing none of the GOOD promises he brought up during his campaign run. Seriously dude, don't take it from me, hear it from his own supporters.

Oh and he's a criminal, there's enough evidence of several crimes committed by people and organizations likely directed by him (at least 1 has already been confirmed made available to the public) that is being passed around to State prosecutors, probably to prevent him from getting a pardon. It's only a matter of time before he gets indicted and even if he were to fire Mueller at this time, the state prosecutions would keep going.

You're right, it doesn't. My intent wasn't to insult you, it's just the reality of the situation, not beliefs. The posts you've made here prove that you've been fooled because you literally said "it's clear he has our nation's best interest at heart", if that were true, he would never say he doesn't care about debt because he won't be around by the time the debt becomes a real issue. We also know he's a conman via the results Trump University case.

He's a conman and you have been fooled like many others. But it's ok, you're free to continue being fooled by this conman. It's your right and no one will take that away from you.

More evidence of your obliviousness. Clinton had less problems and was impeached while the GOP pushed for it. Trump tops Nixon as the more blatant example of a corrupt and criminal president because a portion of the government body that's supposed to be a check and balance to the president isn't doing his job and is instead doing all it can to obstruct the truth instead.

Trump said he'd release his Taxes when he ran on the campaign. If he did and there was no problem with them, this would clear him of the allegations of Tax fraud that are on him. Instead he keeps hiding and the Republicans are helping. If he were innocent, it would be in his best interests to just let the Democrats see the tax returns, if nothing comes up, the Democrats would stay silent because they have no ammo against him and Trump would just take advantage of that make them look like absolute liars. 

Trump said he had no dealings with Russia and that there's no collusion or "conspiracy to defraud the United States", the documents related to the Trump Moscow project disprove that. Republicans did nothing but block the Mueller prove as much as they could and keep on pushing the Hillary e-mail conspiracy until they secured as many seats as they could from the midterms

Trump likes to believe he's done nothing wrong, the aforementioned Trump University case and the recent Trump Charity shut down disprove that. Republicans won't tell you that this happened and will respond to it with silence.

I don't know if Trump will be impeached, it's quite doubtful because the Republicans have proven that they cannot be trusted and they're more interested in giving tax cuts to the rich and have no interest in making sure people affected by the shutdown get paid. Truly a party and president with the US' best interest at heart.

Anyway I'm done, this'll only derail the thread further if it continues and you're not worth it.

Fair enough. Good day to you.

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

Yeah, but that was a move that lawmakers forced him to do. If he actually supported it, I imagine he would be boasting about it a lot more and throw insults at Putin instead of being pretty mum about it.

Doesn't really matter why it happened in light of the fact that it has happened and the potential ramifications are terrifying.

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12 hours ago, ConquestVeteran said:

Are you implying that I'm oblivious for believing in our current president? 

Thats one word for it, I suppose.
 

18 hours ago, XRay said:

If Trump really wants to heal the divide in this country over night, I think the best course of action is to recognize Taiwan and declare a resumption of the Cold War against communism. Nothing unifies a people more than a common enemy.

...oh god no...

Taiwan is stable right now. They have an autonomous democratically elected government, a booming economy + free markets, and and open and free society with a high degree of political and civil rights. Moreover, the business communities in Taiwan and in mainland China are finally starting to forge peacetime bonds through mutually-beneficial trade and give their respective governments a pecuniary interest in maintaining peacetime status-quo.

China for its part is presently content to assert titular claim to Taiwan as a Chinese territory. But feels no particular impetus to invade or sanction or take any concrete actions that would be disruptive to Taiwan's democratic government, capitalist economy, and free society. 

Trump is a destablizer. A disrupter. He operates in chaos and everything he touches becomes chaotic. He has no statesmanlike qualities, no understanding of the issues or desire to learn, and everything he does is transactional + for his own brand. 

Trump by wading into this particular geopolitical minefield and staking out an aggressive call for "recognizing Taiwan" does one thing and only one thing:  pricks China's pride, and makes it a point of national interest that now they have to prove they don't succumb to American meddling in their sphere of influence. They have to show that China is holding all the cards. They have to show that American policy-jockeying holds no power over "their island." They have to go out and exert their influence and do something disruptive, to send a message to Washington. 
   
Trump's Clown Show needs to stay far, far, far, far, FAR away from Taiwan. 
 

18 hours ago, ConquestVeteran said:

If I've made any factual errors, please correct me.


 1)  Immigrants don't "steal jobs"

2)  Trump's own generals and foreign policy advisers don't trust his character, judgement, or loyalty.  

3)  Previous presidents have established multilateral talks with North Korea where they bring China and Japan and South Korea to the table, and go in presenting a unified front as to what the international community expects + why North Korea's behavior is unacceptable. 

No previous president has ever held unilateral talks with only North Korea and America present, or envisioned the path forward as forging a personal relationship between The President and "Dear Leader."

There's a reason for this: unilateral talks are not a good thing. Being isolated from the rest of the international community + going it alone while everyone scratches their head going what the hell is this moron doing is not a good thing. Giving off the appearance that you're palling around with the World's worst dictator is not a good thing.

And its sorta a damning indictment of Trump's political instincts + true loyalties that he can never quite seem to get along this way with the Justin Trudeau's or the Angela Merkel's or the Malcom Turnbull's of the world; the man flops like a fish out of water whenever he has to deal with democratically elected leaders who actually operate within international norms and still champion social and political freedoms. (But boy does he like gushing with praise for Kim-Jung Un and Vladamir Putin)   

 

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54 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

(But boy does he like gushing with praise for Kim-Jung Un and Vladamir Putin)   

...And Erdogan and Duterte.

As for my country, it behooves me to inform people who are drinking the Kool-aid that the very person they voted back in 2016 since they wanted change is the very antithesis of it. You don't need to look far for his attempts to silence media critical of him, his war on the lower class, err, drugs that seemingly lets well-heeled merchants go scot-free while killing off pushers or just about anyone who can't afford legal representation, and various other cheap tricks (nepotism, patronage politics) to perpetuate his influence and power.

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2 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Taiwan is stable right now. They have an autonomous democratically elected government, a booming economy + free markets, and and open and free society with a high degree of political and civil rights. Moreover, the business communities in Taiwan and in mainland China are finally starting to forge peacetime bonds through mutually-beneficial trade and give their respective governments a pecuniary interest in maintaining peacetime status-quo.

China for its part is presently content to assert titular claim to Taiwan as a Chinese territory. But feels no particular impetus to invade or sanction or take any concrete actions that would be disruptive to Taiwan's democratic government, capitalist economy, and free society. 

Maintaining peace time status-quo is a facade for an invasion later. What China is doing is buying time to strengthen its military to challenge us at sea. Like Russia, they have no interest in respecting people's right to self determination and they have no qualms outright taking territory belonging to another sovereign nation. The sooner we recognize Taiwan and have their political unification "destiny" severed, the safer it is for Taiwan in the long run.

2 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

pricks China's pride, and makes it a point of national interest that now they have to prove they don't succumb to American meddling in their sphere of influence.

They have done that first and bullied our Philippine ally by taking their islands in the South China Sea. If Duterte was not such as ass kisser, we would and should have repelled Chinese presence in the area.

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6 minutes ago, XRay said:

Maintaining peace time status-quo is a facade for an invasion later. What China is doing is buying time to strengthen its military to challenge us at sea. Like Russia, they have no interest in respecting people's right to self determination and they have no qualms outright taking territory belonging to another sovereign nation. The sooner we recognize Taiwan and have their political unification "destiny" severed, the safer it is for Taiwan in the long run.

As a little historical note, I read How Taiwan Became Chinese: Dutch, Spanish, and Han Colonization in the Seventeenth Century by Tonio Andrade. And according to the book, China actually didn't care about Taiwan until the late 1800s after Japan "stole" it from them. It was too far off the mainland for Qing China to care about it.

-Of course, that was a wholly different China from today.

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

If Duterte was not such as ass kisser,

He unfortunately is, for all the macho posturing he's doing. Too bad most of the people who voted for him are dumbfucks who bought into his stock. But it's I suppose a microcosm for what's happening everywhere else.

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As someone who is very much in the minority here, if my current member title didn't make obvious, I just wanted to state my opinion, if only so people on here can see the thoughts of someone with a different view. You are welcome to 'reply' which I learned a while back really means 'tell me I'm naive/imbecilic/evil/etc.' and I will read those responses, but this is advance warning that I will not respond to any replies I receive on here, mostly for my own sanity's sake as I actually hate this particular subforum and only come here like twice a year and have had too many run-ins with people who refuse to consider my thoughts as coming from anything but a poor, misguided fool. Should I avoid this? Perhaps, but I choose not to every now and then, I don't really know why, something inside me just refuses to be completely silent on these matters.

The first and most major difficulty I run into on such overviews as these is that, unlike what everyone appears to think both in the country and out, the US is actually not designed to be a Democracy - it is stated multiple times by the Founding Fathers that they were attempting to set up a Constitutional Republic, which we have, over the years, corrupted into something halfway between that Consitutional Republic and a Representative Democracy, through such problematic events as the 17th Amendment, which eliminated part of the natural balance of the Legislative Branch - the point of Senators being elected by the States instead of the People, like the Representatives are, was that the Senators would be accountable to the States while the Representatives were accountable to the People, ensuring(in theory) that legislation sent through both halves of the Legislative Branch would be approved by and good for both the People and the States. This is important because it is the United STATES of America, not the United PEOPLE of America, meaning that, while yes, the People are important and should be represented properly, the States are also entities that should be represented with the same degree of care. This is of course not getting into the fact that the Senators answering to the States meant that they didn't need to try and pander to the People to convince them to reelect them, though they did need to do something to that effect with the States.

The second issue I have with this report is that is assumes that perpetual Democracy is something to be desired. While Democracy can be seen as an admirable state of government compared to, say, outright Tyranny or complete Anarchy, in the end it's essentially doomed to self-destruct. Once part of the people realizes they can just vote themselves the other part of the people's stuff, the other part of the people is screwed unless they can obtain the majority vote and get their stuff back, in which case, people being imperfect, vindictive and all that, they're likely to abuse that majority vote to exact punishment upon the first part, which will then reobtain the majority vote and repeat the process. Eventually, either it devolves into something closer to Anarchy or someone figures out how to set things up so the people don't rip themselves to shreds, usually with something like a Republic or Oligarchy. Democracy isn't designed to function as a self-sustaining permanent form of government on such a large level - rather, it works as more of a limbo while a nation attempts to determine the direction of government it wishes to pursue, Republic, Oligarchy, Theocracy, Monarchy, etc. Democracy does function quite well on very small scales(think ordering food with a group of friends or a similar situation), but it's not as viable as other systems on the scale of National government.

The third and last issue I will touch on here - and the one that I will limit myself to the least amount of time for various reasons - is that the article states, referring to Donald Trump and our Constitutional System:

On 2/5/2019 at 10:17 AM, Shoblongoo said:

No president in living memory has shown less respect for its tenets, norms, and principles

Assuming this is true, which I personally doubt as I believe Obama walked over the Constitutional System more than Trump has, does this report provide links to such instances of supposed disrespect so that we as a people may study them and determine whether we find disrespectful a proper and correct adjective to apply? It's quite possible that we individually may find we do not agree with the decree of disrespect placed on some of these examples which we are notably NOT given.

...So there you have it, some of my thoughts on this article. Since I'm the guy who listens to Ben Shapiro and Andrew Klavan, though, as stated before I'm already assuming you all are going to either politely ignore this as the mad ravings of an imbecile, or else crucify me as some far-right demon that you all hope is never allowed near your children. If - big IF - however, any of you should happen to appreciate this alternate viewpoint for whatever reason, even if only as a source of amusement or something similar, then I'm glad to know this wasn't a complete waste of time.

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i'll just say when you're arguing against the concept of democracy because your views are unpopular and are going to lose if they were taken at their face, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement of your country

nor of trump himself, either, really. I mean, he campaigned as a populist and a 'speaker for the people'. in reality, I think he is not truly either of those, but that's what he was going for.

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1 hour ago, SoulWeaver said:

Assuming this is true, which I personally doubt as I believe Obama walked over the Constitutional System more than Trump has, does this report provide links to such instances of supposed disrespect so that we as a people may study them and determine whether we find disrespectful a proper and correct adjective to apply? 

Yes! Yes it does.

The summary I provided in the OP was already running on the long side and I wanted to present the full global scope of it rather than drilling down on the parts that just strictly dealt with the United States and with Trump.

But since you have chosen to hone in on that part and requested a greater level of detail; this is what the report is referring to when it says No president in living memory has shown less respect for its tenets, norms, and principles. 


ASSAILING THE RULE  OF LAW


"As a candidate in 2016, he questioned the impartiality of an American-born judge with a Hispanic surname who presided over a fraud suit filed against “Trump University.” Soon after taking office, he disparaged a federal judge who ruled against his travel ban on several Muslim-majority countries as “this so-called judge.”"

"Late in 2018, after a federal judge blocked the administration’s plan to consider asylum claims only from those who cross the border at official ports of entry, the president said, “This was an Obama judge. And I’ll tell you what, it’s not going to happen like this anymore.”"


"The president has since urged the Department of Justice to prosecute his political opponents and critics. He has used his pardon power to reward political and ideological allies and encourage targets of criminal investigations to refuse cooperation with the government. He has expressed contempt for witnesses who are cooperating with law enforcement in cases that could harm his interests and praised those who remain silent. His administration’s harsh policies on immigrants and asylum seekers have restricted their rights, belittled our nation’s core ideals, and seriously compromised equal treatment under the law. In October 2018, the president went so far as to claim that he could unilaterally overturn the constitutional guarantee of birthright citizenship."


DEMONIZING THE PRESS

"Trump alone has deployed slurs like “enemy of the people,” flirted with the idea that the media are responsible for and perhaps deserving of violence, and defended his own routine falsehoods while accusing journalists of lying with malicious, even treasonous intent."

"In a tweet posted two days after a mass shooting at a Pittsburgh synagogue last October, and not long after a series of pipe bombs had been sent by a Trump supporter to targets including CNN, the president blamed the media for inciting public rage: “There is great anger in our Country caused in part by inaccurate, and even fraudulent, reporting of the news,” Trump wrote. “The Fake News Media, the true Enemy of the People, must stop the open & obvious hostility & report the news accurately & fairly. That will do much to put out the flame … of Anger and Outrage and we will then be able to bring all sides together in Peace and Harmony. Fake News Must End!”



SELF-DEALING AND CONFLICTS OF INTERESTS

"From the outset of his administration, the president has been willing to ignore obvious conflicts of interest, most prominently with his decision not to divest ownership of his businesses or place them in a blind trust. Instead, he moved them into a revocable trust, managed by his sons, of which he is the sole beneficiary. During his presidency, his businesses have accepted money from foreign lenders, including banks controlled by the Chinese government."

"Trump has swept aside the norm against nepotism by having his daughter and son-in-law, both seemingly saddled with their own conflicts of interest, serve as senior White House advisers." 



ATTACKING THE LEGITIMACY OF ELECTIONS

"Months before his own election in 2016, candidate Trump began alleging voter fraud and warned that he might not accept the results if he lost. Even after winning, he insisted that millions of fraudulent votes had been cast against him. To substantiate his claims, he created a special commission to investigate the problem. It was quietly disbanded in early 2018 without producing any evidence."

"At the same time, the administration has shown little interest in addressing genuine and documented threats to the integrity of US elections...the most glaring lapse is the president’s refusal to clearly acknowledge and comprehensively combat Russian and other foreign attempts to meddle in American elections since 2016."

****
The requested production of citations has been provided.

I will not attack you and invite your response.

 

1 hour ago, SoulWeaver said:

It's quite possible that we individually may find we do not agree with the decree of disrespect placed on some of these examples which we are notably NOT given.


Would you like to reconsider, on account of the above-cited material???

Or is it still your position that the current administration has not acted with abnormal and particularly egregious disregard for democratic norms?









 

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22 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

the US is actually not designed to be a Democracy - it is stated multiple times by the Founding Fathers that they were attempting to set up a Constitutional Republic

A republic is a democracy. Democracy comes in many different forms, and democracy does not denote only direct democracy. It is like saying wolves and foxes are not canines because wolves and foxes are not dogs.

32 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

The second issue I have with this report is that is assumes that perpetual Democracy is something to be desired.

The report is not talking about direct democracy. The report is talking about democracy as whole with people being allowed to vote and have greater influence on political decisions. No nation on earth right now has a pure direct democracy, so direct democracy is not even relevant.

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17 hours ago, ConquestVeteran said:

I have faith in the current president, as our country's structure allows for other members of our government to check each other to punish wrongdoing if necessary. If our president is proven guilty of doing something wrong, we have the power to impeach him for his wrongdoing. I guess you could say it's more faith in our justice system than the president himself, but you get the picture. 

There's not a lot of regulation to hold presidents or other elected officials accountable for morally questionable/wrong behavior. It is completely legal (and sadly, common) to take corporate money to get elected, and then alter the law to favor those corporations at the expense of consumers, for instance, despite how blatantly corrupt that is. Impeachment, etc depend entirely on Congress and the Senate, and if enough of them have a vested interest in enabling wrongdoing, then there won't be any action on their part (or at least not enough support for formal action). Many politicians on the right have a lot to gain by Trump being in office (notably his tax plan, which favors their biggest donors) and have shown they will not do anything about it unless either they decide he's more trouble than he's worth, or he does a 180 with his policies.

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12 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

snippy snip

I would prefer not to further discuss this, no, but I do thank you for clarifying with the requested examples, it did help further my understanding of the situation - some of the events I was previously aware of, but there were a couple I was not aware of, so I do thank you for your polite conduct and willingness to help me.

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5 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

I would prefer not to further discuss this, no, but I do thank you for clarifying with the requested examples, it did help further my understanding of the situation - some of the events I was previously aware of, but there were a couple I was not aware of, so I do thank you for your polite conduct and willingness to help me.

One more thing and then I'll stop, since you don't want to talk about this.

...just out of curiosity...

Which parts weren't you previously aware of?

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1 minute ago, Shoblongoo said:

One more thing and then I'll stop, since you don't want to talk about this.

...just out of curiosity...

Which parts weren't you previously aware of?

I was not aware of most of the first and third sections. I'd heard in passing about the third paragraph in the first section as my brother routinely listens to Daily Wire podcasts and it was mentioned at some point, but I was on the way somewhere and forgot to look that up to double-check what I'd heard.

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14 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

I was not aware of most of the first and third sections. I'd heard in passing about the third paragraph in the first section as my brother routinely listens to Daily Wire podcasts and it was mentioned at some point, but I was on the way somewhere and forgot to look that up to double-check what I'd heard.

[Fun Fact]: When DC Comics did its arc where Lex Luther became President of the United States, he divested himself from Lex Corp. to avoid conflict-of-interest.

Donald J. Trump is less ethical than a comic book villain.    

 

Edited by Shoblongoo
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6 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

[Fun Fact]: When DC Comics did its arc where Lex Luther became President of the United States, he divested himself from Lex Corp. to avoid conflict-of-interest.

Donald J. Trump is less ethical than a comic book villain.    

 

I doubt Lex Luthor did that for ethical reasons. Less politically savvy than Lex Luthor maybe. Then again, Trump's somehow managed to get away with it, so maybe he's just more daring than Lex Luthor.

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22 hours ago, XRay said:

Maintaining peace time status-quo is a facade for an invasion later. What China is doing is buying time to strengthen its military to challenge us at sea. Like Russia, they have no interest in respecting people's right to self determination and they have no qualms outright taking territory belonging to another sovereign nation. The sooner we recognize Taiwan and have their political unification "destiny" severed, the safer it is for Taiwan in the long run.

They have done that first and bullied our Philippine ally by taking their islands in the South China Sea. If Duterte was not such as ass kisser, we would and should have repelled Chinese presence in the area.

...Here's the nuance of the issue that most Americans are missing...  (and that Trump wouldn't bother to learn before blowing it up, if he stupidly inserted himself into it and started firing his mouth off)

Taiwan, like America, is a 2-Party democracy with a deep partisan divide down the center. And persons on both sides with diametrically opposed views on whats good for the country + whats bad for the the country. 

Also, like America, theres something of a North vs. South regional divide in support for the two parties:

Image result for taiwan political parties blue green

Except that instead of immigration and abortion and healthcare and all the hot-button issues that characterize the partisan divide in America, Taiwanese politics have one over-riding issue that defines the split between the parties: Relations with Mainland China.

 On the one hand you have the Reunification Party (KMT; "The Blue Party"). Which holds that Taiwan has more to gain from being friendly with China then from being adversarial towards it. And which seeks to move away from Western Influence + normalize trade and political relations with the Mainland.

On the other hand, you have the Taiwanese Nationalists (DPP; "The Green Party"). Which holds that Taiwan must keep its distance from the Mainland and avoid excessive entanglements with Chinese politics and business, to maintain its own independent identity as a free, capitalist society.

Its about an even 50/50 split in popular support for the two parties. 

And even among supporters and politicians of DPP; they don't out-and-out say Taiwan should make a formal declaration of independence on the world stage + petition world leaders to recognize Taiwan as an independent country.

That would be considered an EXTREME position, and any Taiwanese politician that took it would be labeled a dangerous radical + be unlikely to perform well in a general election. 
________ 

What America would be doing by making a formal declaration in recognition of Taiwanese Independence + panning reunification policy would essentially be the equivalent of Taiwan making a formal declaration recognizing Hillary Clinton as the lawful winner of the 2016 presidential election, and declaring Trump a criminal usurper of the office + calling for his arrest and impeachment.

...It would be a proclamation that half of Taiwan wouldn't even agree with, and would find deeply offensive. 

...It would be seen as a highly inappropriate intrusion into their own internal debates and political processes by a foreign government.    

...and even the portion of the country that agrees with the substance of the proclamation would likely recoil at the implications of another country presuming to make it for them, rather than letting Taiwan itself work out the issue in their own due time through their own policymaking and elections.   
 

Edited by Shoblongoo
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I think the biggest threat to democracy is polarization. Tocqueville wrote of how he saw "the tyranny of the majority" as the bane of all democracies. The way world politics work right now, it is no longer a matter of "I disagree with you on politics, but I understand why you see things the way you do and respect that." It has become more of a matter of "YOUR SIDE IS EVIL! YOU SUPPORT THE MURDER OF UNBORN CHILDREN/THE END OF GAY MARRIAGE AND THERE IS NOTHING UNDERSTANDABLE OR SYMPATHETIC ABOUT YOUR CAUSE! THERE CAN BE NO FREEDOM UNTIL YOU AND YOUR PARTY ARE PURGED FROM EXISTENCE!" Which of course will only fire up the other side and create more support for radicals like Trump who are ill-equipped to compromise and treat their political enemies as human beings worthy of respect. People seem to have a mindset of "if we can destroy the other side, everything will be OK" when that isn't how it is. You'll never destroy the other side. At most, you may de-legitimize their political power, but that results in "the tyranny of the majority," which is a minority being ruled against its will. That situation is a powder keg waiting to explode. 

Ideally, I would like to see people in world politics moving towards conciliation. It means people in power on both the left and right need to acknowledge that people are emotionally attached to their ideals, and that instead of trying to humiliate the people they disagree with, they need to reach out and understand that they have concerns that the government should be addressing too. People think the key to prosperity lies in making a government that only ever has to worry about making the left happy, or the right happy. A realistically successful government needs to balance the needs of both sides. Ignoring and marginalizing a side just leads to catastrophes. 

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6 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

Ideally, I would like to see people in world politics moving towards conciliation. It means people in power on both the left and right need to acknowledge that people are emotionally attached to their ideals, and that instead of trying to humiliate the people they disagree with, they need to reach out and understand that they have concerns that the government should be addressing too. People think the key to prosperity lies in making a government that only ever has to worry about making the left happy, or the right happy. A realistically successful government needs to balance the needs of both sides. Ignoring and marginalizing a side just leads to catastrophes. 

I have to ask: What kind of conciliation would you arrive at when you have cold, hard facts such as the ones Shob and Dr Tarrasque have been kind enough to present staring you in the face? 

That you have to make concessions in the face of the systematic fucking of people strikes me as absurd, to say the very least.

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49 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

 Tocqueville wrote of how he saw "the tyranny of the majority" as the bane of all democracies. The way world politics work right now, it is no longer a matter of "I disagree with you on politics, but I understand why you see things the way you do and respect that." It has become more of a matter of "YOUR SIDE IS EVIL! YOU SUPPORT THE MURDER OF UNBORN CHILDREN/THE END OF GAY MARRIAGE AND THERE IS NOTHING UNDERSTANDABLE OR SYMPATHETIC ABOUT YOUR CAUSE! THERE CAN BE NO FREEDOM UNTIL YOU AND YOUR PARTY ARE PURGED FROM EXISTENCE!" Which of course will only fire up the other side and create more support for radicals like Trump who are ill-equipped to compromise and treat their political enemies as human beings worthy of respect. People seem to have a mindset of "if we can destroy the other side, everything will be OK" when that isn't how it is. You'll never destroy the other side. At most, you may de-legitimize their political power, but that results in "the tyranny of the majority," which is a minority being ruled against its will. That situation is a powder keg waiting to explode. 

Its always been that way. Those voices and those attitudes have always been around.

The difference now is that with the internet and mass media and the new information technology + modes of communication available in the 21st century...

...its easier than ever before for those voices to put themselves out there and garner an audience and exert undue influence over civil discourse.

Like--once upon a time if you wanted to shout "YOUR SIDE IS EVIL! YOU SUPPORT THE MURDER OF UNBORN CHILDREN!" at a group of people.

You actually had to get a bullhorn, go outside, find a crowed place full of lots of people, and physically shout "YOUR SIDE IS EVIL! YOU SUPPORT THE MURDER OF UNBORN CHILDREN!" into the crowd.

Now anyone with a keyboard and a modem can do it. 
 

49 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

Ideally, I would like to see people in world politics moving towards conciliation. It means people in power on both the left and right need to acknowledge that people are emotionally attached to their ideals

...I mean I'd like to see people voting less with their emotions and taking a more clinical approach to the issues, but w/e.

 

49 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

I think the biggest threat to democracy is polarization. 


I don't wanna come across as a dick, but there's really no way to sugarcoat this. I'm just gonna say it.

The biggest threat to democracy is ignorance. 

Democracy only works when the electorate is educated enough to vote their own interests.

The system fails when large swaths of the electorate don't understand how law and public policy works, and can be made to believe anything that comes out of the mouth of a populist demagogue.  

 

Edited by Shoblongoo
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