The State of Global Politics Today

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Tetragrammaton said:

It's easy to blame China for everything they do or not do but I bet Western countries cannot handle quarantine more effectively than China.

We got Ebola under control pretty fast, although that is not as contagious as the flu.

We did not handle the Spanish Flu particularly well, but that was just over a 100 years ago. If something similar happened now, I am pretty confident the CDC can keep things under control.

[Tetragrammaton]

13 minutes ago, XRay said:

We got Ebola under control pretty fast, although that is not as contagious as the flu.

We did not handle the Spanish Flu particularly well, but that was just over a 100 years ago. If something similar happened now, I am pretty confident the CDC can keep things under control.

Shall we take a bet that there will be more people die because of corona virus in USA or Europe than China?

Edited March 3, 2020 by Tetragrammaton

[XRay]

Just now, Tetragrammaton said:

Shall we take a bet that there will be more people die because of corona virus in USA than China?

I do not mind making that bet, but you do realize the United States have a really strong advantage here, right?

Not only are we more spread out which makes spreading disease a little more difficult, but we are also more alert and are more prepared since we know it is coming. We are also 4 times smaller than China population wise, so even if we have the same percentage of deaths, we would still have smaller death numbers.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Tetragrammaton said:

Shall we take a bet that there will be more people die because of corona virus in USA or Europe than China?

That is really unlikely imo. There's likely to be a vaccine available before the end of the year. One thing I can say about China is that their desire to keep the rest of the world closed out and handle things themselves has been a hindrance and that's not something that's likely to be replicated in western countries (though heavens help them if something like this happens to break out in an African country where the rest of the world likely won't care all that much, ebola's a pretty good example of that).

[eclipse]

4 hours ago, Tetragrammaton said:

Shall we take a bet that there will be more people die because of corona virus in USA or Europe than China?

Can i ban you if the US winds up with a smaller death toll?  Because if you're going to make stupid comments like this, then you shouldn't be in this thread.

[Shoblongoo]

We will never know how many people actually died of Coronavirus in mainland China.  (The World Health Organization can't really do anything except publish whatever CCP-approved official numbers Beijing gives them)

I mean say what you will about America--Trump lies and ~40% of the country takes everything he says at face value, but we at least have researchers and scientists and experts who can engage in protected anti-government speech and publicly dispute them. 

China puts out an official government statement massively low-balling the number of dead + infected and praising the effectiveness of their containment protocols and public health response, and their medical community can't even be like "yeahhhhhhh. That isn't true."

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Sports events take place without audience and any kind of fairs are completly cancelled.

I don't know if this kind of "prevention" does bring anything.

Anyways the world is prepared for the next big recession after 2008.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Falcom Knight

[Jason-SilverStarApple]

Trump is such a terrifying dictator that absolutely nobody fears speaking out against him on any platform, and absolutely nobody has been deplatformed for speaking out against him, even though so many are deplatformed for openly supporting him.

The problem with politics these days is that some people have no respect for facts, and would rather pick and choose which parts of reality to believe in. Plus, some people view politics as a way to hurt groups of people they hate, rather than a way different groups can settle their differences peacefully and try to make the world a better place for everyone. Some people think they are owed the world, and so the world needs to make a neverending series of compromises with them until reality becomes what they want it to be. Some people don't understand the scientific method, and some people just don't care.

[XRay]

First Coronavirus death in California here in Sacramento a few days ago.

Italy is not doing so well either with a massive spike recently and they are undergoing a nationwide lockdown.

Micronesia is preventing entry to anyone from any country with confirmed cases.

Iran also got hit pretty bad, especially for some of their top government officials, so I guess that is one of the few good news in terms of the virus taking out bad people.

Oh, and gas prices are down! Russians and Saudis have a spat. But since we should not be travelling much anyways due to the virus, we cannot really take advantage of it either. Low prices will also hurt American oil companies, but I personally see that more as good news than bad news, cause fuck global warming. Now is also a good time for countries to top up on cheap oil, although there is only so much countries can store.

3 hours ago, Jason-SilverStarApple said:

rather than a way different groups can settle their differences peacefully and try to make the world a better place for everyone.

That sounds like such a long time ago. I remember when I was young and said I liked Bush, that raised an eyebrow or two, but no one batted an eye if somebody said they were Republican. Even when I was in New York, one of my professors said he was Republican and no one gave a shit.

All that changed when Trump happened.

Edited March 9, 2020 by XRay

[eclipse]

11 hours ago, Jason-SilverStarApple said:

Trump is such a terrifying dictator that absolutely nobody fears speaking out against him on any platform, and absolutely nobody has been deplatformed for speaking out against him, even though so many are deplatformed for openly supporting him.

The problem with politics these days is that some people have no respect for facts, and would rather pick and choose which parts of reality to believe in. Plus, some people view politics as a way to hurt groups of people they hate, rather than a way different groups can settle their differences peacefully and try to make the world a better place for everyone. Some people think they are owed the world, and so the world needs to make a neverending series of compromises with them until reality becomes what they want it to be. Some people don't understand the scientific method, and some people just don't care.

If you're going to be hyperbolic about US politics, put it in the correct thread.  That way, I only need to sternly remind you about one thing at a time.

[Jason-SilverStarApple]

On 3/10/2020 at 6:09 AM, eclipse said:

If you're going to be hyperbolic about US politics, put it in the correct thread.  That way, I only need to sternly remind you about one thing at a time.

Was the guy who started this thread posting "Democracy is in decline worldwide because Trump won?" warned about hyperbole?

Before I post any more on this site, I want to check something: Do conservatives get banned on this site for being conservative? Because I'm not one, I just think Trump's a less terrible option than Biden/Hillary/Bernie.

[Tryhard]

2 hours ago, Jason-SilverStarApple said:

Before I post any more on this site, I want to check something: Do conservatives get banned on this site for being conservative? Because I'm not one, I just think Trump's a less terrible option than Biden/Hillary/Bernie.

No, but I think it's fair to say that most people here are either liberal or further left, and anti-Trump. So I would expect passionate replies from multiple people.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Tryhard

[Karimlan]

2 hours ago, Jason-SilverStarApple said:

Was the guy who started this thread posting "Democracy is in decline worldwide because Trump won?" warned about hyperbole?

Before I post any more on this site, I want to check something: Do conservatives get banned on this site for being conservative? Because I'm not one, I just think Trump's a less terrible option than Biden/Hillary/Bernie.

I don't think that was hyperbole. Round about the time Trump won in the election, populist leaders/politicians have sprouted (see Duterte and Erdogan, to name a couple; you're in a Global Politics thread after all) up on the top of the heap in their respective countries.

As for your second question: People don't get banned or warned for their leanings. They get reprimanded for making reductionist statements without substantiating them.

From the Forum Sticky:

Quote

- There's a time and a place for polemics, neither of those are this board. While controversial topics of discussion are welcome here, do not go out of your way to spice up your phrasing in order to grab attention to your position. More likely than not you'll simply end up offending people and embarrassing yourself. When handling sensitive issues of discussion try to treat them with the delicacy they deserve. You don't have to sugarcoat things, put on your kid gloves, or walk around on eggshells, but you can't be aggressively hostile either. Show some empathy for the rest of the board and strike the middle ground.

... If you want to contribute to an ongoing discussion, please make sure you can provide some logic to back up your case. This isn't the place for groundless claims, no matter how impassioned you can make you pleas appear to be.

 

[eclipse]

3 hours ago, Jason-SilverStarApple said:

Was the guy who started this thread posting "Democracy is in decline worldwide because Trump won?" warned about hyperbole?

Before I post any more on this site, I want to check something: Do conservatives get banned on this site for being conservative? Because I'm not one, I just think Trump's a less terrible option than Biden/Hillary/Bernie.

If you'd taken the time to actually read the US POLITICS thread, you'd see the results (someone's still serving out a suspension).

You won't be banned for your political views.  You may be warned depending on how you come across, though.  I'll probably start with quotes like this, as they don't increase your warning points).  An Actual Warning will.  But if you want the lowdown of how warns work and whatnot, send me a PM, and I'll explain in more detail.

That being said, if you want to elaborate on the last part in the appropriate thread, feel free to do so.

[Jason-SilverStarApple]

25 minutes ago, eclipse said:

If you'd taken the time to actually read the US POLITICS thread, you'd see the results (someone's still serving out a suspension).

You won't be banned for your political views.  You may be warned depending on how you come across, though.  I'll probably start with quotes like this, as they don't increase your warning points).  An Actual Warning will.  But if you want the lowdown of how warns work and whatnot, send me a PM, and I'll explain in more detail.

That being said, if you want to elaborate on the last part in the appropriate thread, feel free to do so.

Could you send me a PM explaining exactly what is/is not warnable? I'm new here and I'm not great at social stuff, so it would be great if exactly what is and isn't warnable could be put in writing ahead of time, complete with examples for anything that's vague/confusing/up to interpretation. Will I get warning points if I cite a source someone else doesn't like? Will left-wingers be held to the same standards everyone else is held to?

One time on a Sci-Fi discussion forum, someone posted that he blamed the scarcity of resources on republicans and claimed that "If we had infinite money everything would be free!" so I overlooked the "blaming people I don't like for aspects of reality I don't like" part of his post and showed him a fee.org video that explains why printing more money is a bad idea (it devalues your currency)

I was then given warning points for "Posting a banned source". The moderator called the libertarian and economics-educational youtube channel fee.org alt-right of all things. I gave up on that site and left before I gained enough warning points to be banned.

In any case, in retrospect the "Political discussion these days sucks because some people are jerks" part of my post here was a bit daft. Should I edit that out?

1 hour ago, Tryhard said:

No, but I think it's fair to say that most people here are either liberal or further left, and anti-Trump. So I would expect passionate replies from multiple people.

That's fine, I'm used to those.

By the way how do I turn off Rich Text in the post field?

Edited March 11, 2020 by Jason-SilverStarApple

[XRay]

Yo! Trump actually sounds serious now. He might be reading from a scipt, so maybe that is why he did not go off topic a lot, which is good. Since he mentioned Europe and it will affect foreign travel and trade, I think this might be more appropriate here in the Global Politics thead.

I am not a fan of the travel restrictions, but I understand why and I can accept it. As for restricting cargo though? That is kind of stupid, so I hope he means it does not apply to cargo cause that is just dumb. I do not see how a person can get sick from touching a German car or drinking French wine.

Financial relief for working people and small businesses is nice too.

I wish he would talk more about cooperating with other countries on solving the issue. He mentioned putting Americans first a few times and that is nice, but depending on how we are putting ourselves first, that might backfire. For example, if we can manage to make a vaccine in time, we need to give that shit out instead of charging high prices for it or hoarding it. Hoarding vaccines is not that different from hoarding facemasks: if people have less access to healthcare, people will get sick easier, and with more sick people around, the hoarder is more likely to get sick too. I just hope he is not putting Americans first with that narrow hoarder mentality.

Anyways, I am happy he is taking this seriously finally. Does not excuse his other shit, but this seems good so far.

 

[Johann]

14 hours ago, XRay said:

Yo! Trump actually sounds serious now. He might be reading from a scipt, so maybe that is why he did not go off topic a lot, which is good. Since he mentioned Europe and it will affect foreign travel and trade, I think this might be more appropriate here in the Global Politics thead.

I am not a fan of the travel restrictions, but I understand why and I can accept it. As for restricting cargo though? That is kind of stupid, so I hope he means it does not apply to cargo cause that is just dumb. I do not see how a person can get sick from touching a German car or drinking French wine.

Financial relief for working people and small businesses is nice too.

I wish he would talk more about cooperating with other countries on solving the issue. He mentioned putting Americans first a few times and that is nice, but depending on how we are putting ourselves first, that might backfire. For example, if we can manage to make a vaccine in time, we need to give that shit out instead of charging high prices for it or hoarding it. Hoarding vaccines is not that different from hoarding facemasks: if people have less access to healthcare, people will get sick easier, and with more sick people around, the hoarder is more likely to get sick too. I just hope he is not putting Americans first with that narrow hoarder mentality.

Anyways, I am happy he is taking this seriously finally. Does not excuse his other shit, but this seems good so far.

Not sure I'd be so fast to praise him for this call; his only interest is keeping reported numbers down, regardless of the actual numbers, so while banning travel from Europe does help, there's still the matter of providing testing, treatment, and sick leave support. I don't think this is a sign of him doing what he ought to be. He's barely even cooperating with medical professionals, sometimes contradicting them.

[Interdimensional Observer]

A travel ban this late is a little too late. Why import coronavirus when it's got a strong native presence here now? Not to mention the British backdoor for anyone from continental Europe, one trip through the Chunnel to Heathrow and over the seas, and bam you've brought America the disease! Why was it included?

Considering it was a teleprompter speech he didn't write and delivered elementarily, we know this isn't entirely what he really thinks and wants.

[Etrurian emperor]

On 3/11/2020 at 6:49 PM, Karimlan said:

I don't think that was hyperbole. Round about the time Trump won in the election, populist leaders/politicians have sprouted (see Duterte and Erdogan, to name a couple; you're in a Global Politics thread after all) up on the top of the heap in their respective countries.

That's not really the case. Populism was around long before Trump and it was already very powerful.  Erdogan predates Trump by quite a few years and he started his quest for dictatorship long before Trump's election. Its not Trump who has inspired other populists but other populists who inspired Trump. For more then a decade Europe has known strong populist parties. The only thing that's really unique about Trump is the speed in which America allowed itself to be conned by their populists.

In fact it might just have been the very opposite. Le Pen and Wilders were on the verge of their big breakthroughs and part of why they eventually lost might be that Europeans saw the consequences of handing the reign of governance to a rogue demagogue. Trump does serve as an inspiration to other populist that they too can rise to power but he's also making their job a lot harder by openly flaunting his bad intentions.

That said having the leading nation of Democracy embrace an authoritarian demagogue does weaken the prestige of democracy and gives legitimacy to the dictatorship models other countries are trying to implement. After all if even the leading democratic nation elects a guy who rejects the democratic model then that's a very damning message for democracy.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Etrurian emperor

[Jotari]

40 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

A travel ban this late is a little too late. Why import coronavirus when it's got a strong native presence here now? Not to mention the British backdoor for anyone from continental Europe, one trip through the Chunnel to Heathrow and over the seas, and bam you've brought America the disease! Why was it included?

Considering it was a teleprompter speech he didn't write and delivered elementarily, we know this isn't entirely what he really thinks and wants.

As someone who has been flying recently and has outright been refused entry to a country on the basis of the Corona Virus I can confirm you are questioned about your recent travel history. And considering the UK (and Ireland) is outside of the Schengen area that history will show on your passport. The backdoor should be pretty easy to close. If Kiribati could keep me out I'm sure the USA can keep Europeans out. Though travel will still be possible if you've spent two weeks in an area "without on going local transmission." Granted the UK isn't actually doing the best on that front which makes me think this is more Brexit politics than an actual response.

In less US centric news India is about to ban all international travel entirely.

[Shrimpica]

Just now, Jotari said:

And considering the UK (and Ireland) is outside of the Schengen area that history will show on your passport.

It won't. I don't get a stamp when i fly to the uk. I don't even need a passport. Just an ID is enough.

For now.

 

[Shoblongoo]

On 3/11/2020 at 11:03 AM, Jason-SilverStarApple said:

Was the guy who started this thread posting "Democracy is in decline worldwide because Trump won?" warned about hyperbole?

Oi--Democracy is not in decline worldwide BECAUSE Trump won.

Democracy is in decline worldwide. And Trump winning + governing on an anti-democratic platform of attacking the free press, the independent judiciary, impartial justice, safeguards against corruption, and the legitimacy of elections is one such example. 

(The former would probably set Eclipse's hyperbole radar off, but that's not what I said. The latter is true-and-accurate.) 

Pop on into the U.S. General thread if you'd like to discuss this particular topic in greater detail. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Shoblongoo

[Karimlan]

20 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That's not really the case. Populism was around long before Trump and it was already very powerful.  Erdogan predates Trump by quite a few years and he started his quest for dictatorship long before Trump's election. Its not Trump who has inspired other populists but other populists who inspired Trump. For more then a decade Europe has known strong populist parties. The only thing that's really unique about Trump is the speed in which America allowed itself to be conned by their populists.

Sorry for wording it in a way that suggests the opposite of what you stated. What I meant to say was that the trend of political figures being chosen to lead their respective countries seemed to veer in favor of populists.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Karimlan

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Johann said:

Not sure I'd be so fast to praise him for this call; his only interest is keeping reported numbers down, regardless of the actual numbers, so while banning travel from Europe does help, there's still the matter of providing testing, treatment, and sick leave support. I don't think this is a sign of him doing what he ought to be. He's barely even cooperating with medical professionals, sometimes contradicting them.

That is true, but at least he is reading from a script, so it is one minor improvement there. I am really tired of crapping on this orange sack of incompetence, so any tiny achievement/victory he accomplishes, I can add it to my handful of things I like about him. It is not often that I can confidently say "I approve of what Trump did in regard to X issue."

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Considering it was a teleprompter speech he didn't write and delivered elementarily, we know this isn't entirely what he really thinks and wants.

That is true too, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until he contradicts himself later and proves otherwise.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

A travel ban this late is a little too late. Why import coronavirus when it's got a strong native presence here now? Not to mention the British backdoor for anyone from continental Europe, one trip through the Chunnel to Heathrow and over the seas, and bam you've brought America the disease! Why was it included?

25 minutes ago, Jotari said:

As someone who has been flying recently and has outright been refused entry to a country on the basis of the Corona Virus I can confirm you are questioned about your recent travel history. And considering the UK (and Ireland) is outside of the Schengen area that history will show on your passport. The backdoor should be pretty easy to close. If Kiribati could keep me out I'm sure the USA can keep Europeans out. Though travel will still be possible if you've spent two weeks in an area "without on going local transmission." Granted the UK isn't actually doing the best on that front which makes me think this is more Brexit politics than an actual response.

In less US centric news India is about to ban all international travel entirely.

Hm... Since we now think that the disease will most likely become endemic world wide eventually, I wonder if it still makes sense to implement travel bans. I guess it would slow the spread a bit and give people in uninfected areas more time to wait for the vaccine.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

It won't. I don't get a stamp when i fly to the uk. I don't even need a passport. Just an ID is enough.

For now.

 

Where are you flying from? Because unless it's from Ireland, then you should. The UK is a different customs area to the rest of Europe. Bear in mind it could be a digital stamp.

17 hours ago, XRay said:

Yo! Trump actually sounds serious now. He might be reading from a scipt, so maybe that is why he did not go off topic a lot, which is good. Since he mentioned Europe and it will affect foreign travel and trade, I think this might be more appropriate here in the Global Politics thead.

I am not a fan of the travel restrictions, but I understand why and I can accept it. As for restricting cargo though? That is kind of stupid, so I hope he means it does not apply to cargo cause that is just dumb. I do not see how a person can get sick from touching a German car or drinking French wine.

Financial relief for working people and small businesses is nice too.

I wish he would talk more about cooperating with other countries on solving the issue. He mentioned putting Americans first a few times and that is nice, but depending on how we are putting ourselves first, that might backfire. For example, if we can manage to make a vaccine in time, we need to give that shit out instead of charging high prices for it or hoarding it. Hoarding vaccines is not that different from hoarding facemasks: if people have less access to healthcare, people will get sick easier, and with more sick people around, the hoarder is more likely to get sick too. I just hope he is not putting Americans first with that narrow hoarder mentality.

Anyways, I am happy he is taking this seriously finally. Does not excuse his other shit, but this seems good so far.

 

Man now that I see the video in pissed. I don't think it's a terrible idea to cut off travel but he's milking the shit out of this for political gain by blaming the EU, not mainland Europe (because the travel ban doesn't extend to Ireland but does extend to say Switzerland). Its exactly what I expected but seeing him be so brazen about it is annoying.