The State of Global Politics Today

[Moblin Major General]

8 hours ago, Slumber said:

A major good for Hong Kong, but China using it to control their populace is sad. I really, sincerely hope somebody can de-frag the Chinese people in the very near future, because it's a danger to have such a large portion of the world's population so hypnotized by their country's propaganda. Seeing, reading about and hearing about how Chinese people dissociate from what's happening by just... pretending it isn't happening is very bad. It leads to shit like over a billion people being silently complicit in multiple genocides.

"Social Credit" did a fucking number on China. It's scary to think what would happen if other countries were to implement such an idea.

You act like that level of control is anything new for China. A lot of their history going back to the founding of it by Qin Shi Huang is eerily similar to what is going on there now. The Qing arguably did things that were just as bad if not worse. The Kuomintang only became Western after they were forced onto Taiwan, otherwise the situation wouldn't be all that different imo. And of course the Yuan Dynasty was run by enlightened bandits and raiders. And when it isn't being run by thin-skinned despots, it's in constant civil war.

[eclipse]

16 hours ago, XRay said:

Took me a few tries refreshing the page and stopping page to see the full New York Times article about Pooh's lack of response right now outside of blaming foreign interference. I am copy-pasting the article into the spoilers in case you are not able to do the refresh-stop trick to go around the pay wall.

  Reveal hidden contents

Beijing Was Confident Its Hong Kong Allies Would Win. After the Election, It Went Silent.

Since the big loss for the pro-Beijing camp, Chinese state media has resorted to a favorite tactic by blaming the United States, a nationalistic message that plays well to the masses at home.

 

 

Supporters of Hong Kong’s pro-democracy movement celebrating on the streets outside a polling station in Tuen Mun, Hong Kong, early Monday.Credit...Lam Yik Fei for The New York Times

By Javier C. Hernández

• Nov. 26, 2019Updated 7:35 a.m. ET
• •  
  •  

BEIJING — The Chinese government seemed confident that its allies would prevail in the Hong Kong elections on Sunday.

For a week, commentators wrote brassy pieces saying the Hong Kong public would go to the polls to “end social chaos and violence,” a vote against what they saw as rogues and radicals. Editors at state-run news outlets prepared stories that predicted withering losses for the protest movement.

When it became clear early Monday that democracy advocates in the semiautonomous territory had won in a landslide, Beijing turned silent. The news media, for the most part, did not even report the election results. And Chinese officials directed their ire at a familiar foe: the United States.

The sudden pivot reflects the ruling Communist Party’s continuing struggle to understand one of its worst political crises in decades. At various moments in the monthslong protests in Hong Kong, Beijing has been caught off guard, forced to recalibrate its propaganda machine.

After the election loss, Chinese officials resorted to a favorite tactic by blaming the West, a nationalistic message that plays well to the masses at home. For months, officials have said the protests are the work of foreign “black hands” bent on fomenting an uprising in the former British colony.

“Beijing knows very well that they lost the game in the election,” said Willy Lam, a political analyst who teaches at the Chinese University of Hong Kong. “Beijing had to blame somebody, so in this case it is blaming outside foreign forces, particularly in the United States, for interfering in the elections.”

 

Since the antigovernment protests erupted in June, Beijing has sought to portray the protesters in Hong Kong as violent thugs colluding with foreign forces to undermine the party. The government, under President Xi Jinping, has repeatedly denounced the protesters as a fringe group that does not enjoy broad public support.

In the days leading up to the election, state-run news outlets echoed that message. Xinhua, the state news agency, reported that most voters were opposed to violence and worried that the election would become a “stage for political performances.”

It didn’t matter that the elections on Sunday were for district councils, some of the least powerful positions in Hong Kong’s government. Like those in the pro-democracy camp, the Chinese media also appeared to position the vote as a referendum on the protests, albeit as a chance for the public to decry the violence and the pro-democracy movement.

But the vote on Sunday severely undercut the government’s narrative.

In a rebuke to Beijing, pro-democracy candidates captured 389 of 452 elected seats, far more than they had ever won. Beijing’s allies held just 58 seats, down from 300. It was a strong message from Hong Kong voters, with record turnout of 71 percent.

As the bruising loss for the pro-Beijing camp became clear, the Chinese news media didn’t cover it. A brief news article by Xinhua stated simply that ballots had been counted and blamed social unrest for “disrupting the electoral process.”

Xu Qinduo, a political commentator for China Radio International, a state-owned broadcaster, said the lack of coverage might be at least partly a face-saving measure. His outlet’s website posted the basic report by Xinhua.

“People see it as somehow a failure of the central government,” he said, referring to the victory for pro-democracy candidates. He said he disagreed with that perception.

Mr. Xu added that the silence from the news media suggested the government had not decided yet how to respond. “There’s probably a lack of conclusion, a lack of consensus even, over how to respond to the election and what kind of narrative we are going to have,” he said.

The failure of the political establishment in Beijing to predict the outcome also raised questions about the party’s grasp of the political forces in Hong Kong. There are grumblings that Mr. Xi’s government has misread the grievances of the protesters and underestimated the depth of the anger in Hong Kong.

Chinese state media has simultaneously argued that the frustrations have stemmed from economic issues like sky-high housing costs and depicted demonstrators as paid thugs. And those provocateurs, in Beijing’s view, didn’t have the broad support of the Hong Kong public.

“They believed in their own propaganda,” said Wu Qiang, a political analyst in Beijing who is critical of the government. “They thought the situation would pivot and the public would support them.”

Hong Kong’s leadership has sought to play down the elections results. On Tuesday, Carrie Lam, Hong Kong’s embattled chief executive, disputed the idea that the losses for pro-Beijing candidates had broader implications. But she acknowledged that there appeared to be dissatisfaction with how the government handled the extradition bill that originally sparked the protests.

“There are people who want to express the view that they could no longer tolerate this chaotic situation,” Mrs. Lam said at a regular news briefing. “There are of course people who felt that our government has not handled competently the legislative exercise and its aftermath.”

Since the election, Chinese officials have renewed their attacks on the United States and criticized Congress for recently passing a bill to support the protesters, known as the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act.

The Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs summoned the American ambassador to Beijing, Terry Branstad, on Monday to complain about the bill.

Zheng Zeguang, a vice foreign minister, told Mr. Branstad that the United States should “stop interfering in China’s internal affairs,” according to the ministry.

 

“Any attempt to destabilize Hong Kong and undermine its stability and prosperity will never succeed,” Mr. Zheng said, according to the ministry.

The bill, which passed both houses of Congress with veto-proof majorities, could impose sanctions on Chinese officials for cracking down on the protesters. The White House, which is engaged in delicate trade negotiations with China, has not said whether President Trump will sign it.

At their meeting on Monday, Mr. Branstad told Mr. Zheng that the United States was watching the situation in Hong Kong with “grave concern,” according to a spokesman for the American Embassy in Beijing. Mr. Branstad added that “the United States believes that societies are best served when diverse political views can be represented in genuinely free and fair elections,” according to the embassy.

The state-run news media has also sharpened its criticism of American politicians.

On Tuesday, People’s Daily, the flagship newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party, published a scathing editorial accusing American officials of harboring “sinister intentions” and encouraging unrest in Hong Kong as a way of containing China’s rise.

CCTV, the state broadcaster, aired a segment on the evening news quoting American, Russian and Singaporean experts who argued that the United States was interfering in China’s affairs.

The tone in the state media is likely to grow more aggressive in the weeks ahead, analysts say, as Beijing tries to rein in a pro-democracy movement that feels vindicated by its electoral victories.

“The stage is set for more confrontation between the radical protesters in Hong Kong and a recalcitrant Beijing,” said Mr. Lam, the political analyst. “Beijing may end up squeezing Hong Kong further and further.”

 

Would archive.is do it?  Would save you the trouble!

The fact that the Chinese government is trying to control the narrative is disturbing.  They're the ones that destabilized Hong Kong, not the US.  Those of us who are more on the "personal freedom" side of things just happened to voice our support.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Would archive.is do it?  Would save you the trouble!

The fact that the Chinese government is trying to control the narrative is disturbing.  They're the ones that destabilized Hong Kong, not the US.  Those of us who are more on the "personal freedom" side of things just happened to voice our support.

Neat! I will bookmark that site. I have been getting tired of refreshing-stop trick to prevent the paywall thing from popping up.

[Interdimensional Observer]

So, Britain will finally be certainly leaving the EU, no doubts about it. Or at least England, who knows if the rest will opt for the little union over the European one the long term?

What lessons are to be learned from last night's crushing defeat for Labour? "Don't stick on the stick shift of an issue?" "Don't lead with a Marxist of anti-Semitic controversies?"

 

And, what does this mean for domestic politics at the west end of the Atlantic pond?

[Tryhard]

I can't really be bothered caring anymore, but I'm not exactly surprised. However, the Tories have been wishy-washy on Brexit so far, it's basically like them saying they should be elected to fix a problem they caused, so it's not like it will be any smoother.

I'll cast my glare at Scottish unionists who didn't think this was going to happen, though.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Tryhard

[Jotari]

Scottish independence seems very likely now with basically the entire country going for SNP. I just doubt the Tories will actually allow them the chance to have a legitimate referendum. They might still go for it themselves with an unsanctioned referendum and we could end up with a Catalan situation.

Over in Northern Ireland, the DUP lost two seats which is great. But more importantly, now that the Tories have a majority of their own they don't have to cater to the DUP at all. So they can securely distance Northern Ireland's economy from the rest of the UK.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Jotari

[NinjaMonkey]

12 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Or at least England, who knows if the rest will opt for the little union over the European one the long term?

Wales has no choice in the matter at all. They have lost what little industry they once had (apart from agriculture), so they can't exactly become an independent country that is capable of supporting itself.

Edited December 14, 2019 by NinjaMonkey

[Strullemia]

12 hours ago, Jotari said:

Scottish independence seems very likely now with basically the entire country going for SNP. I just doubt the Tories will actually allow them the chance to have a legitimate referendum. They might still go for it themselves with an unsanctioned referendum and we could end up with a Catalan situation.

Over in Northern Ireland, the DUP lost two seats which is great. But more importantly, now that the Tories have a majority of their own they don't have to cater to the DUP at all. So they can securely distance Northern Ireland's economy from the rest of the UK.

The problem with a Catalonia situation...I mean aside from everything that already happened in Catalonia is that Spain said they would only agree on Scotland joining the EU if their referendum isn't done illegally and I assume that means that they need the permission from Westminster.

[XRay]

Uigher minorities in China are being forced into labor camps. The obese pigsty government is persecuting minorities and are trying to force their own political and religious/atheistic views on to the victims. The piece of Pooh fat ass and his nasty ass Piglets are claiming the victims are volunteers, but we all know those disgusting slavers are profitting off of slavery. Here is a web archive link if you see a pay wall.

Basically, if you are buying clothing made in China, there is a high likelihood that you are supporting businesses that takes advantage of modern slavery.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Brexit, failed impeachment and having a minister-president elected by votes of right-wing extremists. It is a bad week for the democracy...

[XRay]

So that fat ass Pooh Bear and his fellow obese communist pieces of lard are trying to push a hilariously false narrative that they were great at handling the coronavirus and they got the fucking audacity to blame us for stating the truth about how shit their response were and how our political system would not be able to handle a similar outbreak. Well bigging fucking NO U! right back at their hypocrite bacon, cause which country has the most cases and deaths right now, and not to mention some of the most disgusting and filthy cities? They also said "international" experts from around the world like Russia, Cuba, and Belarus applauded their efforts; they might as fucking well add North Korea to that list of shit hole countries with shit hole dictators.

And poor Hong Kong also now have to deal with their fucking shit, and their pro-Beijing bitch government is being a fucking asswipe insisting on keeping the borders open.

Those fucking lard turds can go delude themselves all they want, but everyone else knows they are a piece of shit stinking up the rest of the world with their disease. They better secretly thank God that the outbreak did not start in the middle of their atheist ass in Beijing, cause their million member Chinese Communist Pigsty is long overdue for a cull.

Edited March 1, 2020 by XRay

[eclipse]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

So that fat ass Pooh Bear and his fellow obese communist pieces of lard are trying to push a hilariously false narrative that they were great at handling the coronavirus and they got the fucking audacity to blame us for stating the truth about how shit their response were and how our political system would not be able to handle a similar outbreak. Well bigging fucking NO U! right back at their hypocrite bacon, cause which country has the most cases and deaths right now, and not to mention some of the most disgusting and filthy cities? They also said "international" experts from around the world like Russia, Cuba, and Belarus applauded their efforts; they might as fucking well add North Korea to that list of shit hole countries with shit hole dictators.

And poor Hong Kong also now have to deal with their fucking shit, and their pro-Beijing bitch government is being a fucking asswipe insisting on keeping the borders open.

Those fucking lard turds can go delude themselves all they want, but everyone else knows they are a piece of shit stinking up the rest of the world with their disease. They better secretly thank God that the outbreak did not start in the middle of their atheist ass in Beijing, cause their million member Chinese Communist Pigsty is long overdue for a cull.

. . .if it wasn't for the fact that the stupid virus is literally killing off their own countrymen, and they are lying their asses off about it, I'd hand out a warning.

The fact that China's list of esteemed countries is missing the democratic ones speaks volumes about how they're handling it.  And the rest of the world has to deal with their mess.  Thanks, China.

[Jotari]

14 minutes ago, eclipse said:

. . .if it wasn't for the fact that the stupid virus is literally killing off their own countrymen, and they are lying their asses off about it, I'd hand out a warning.

The fact that China's list of esteemed countries is missing the democratic ones speaks volumes about how they're handling it.  And the rest of the world has to deal with their mess.  Thanks, China.

Russia is democratic...ostensibly.

[XRay]

46 minutes ago, eclipse said:

. . .if it wasn't for the fact that the stupid virus is literally killing off their own countrymen, and they are lying their asses off about it, I'd hand out a warning.

Excuse my strong language, but the outbreak has been going on for months now and I have withheld much of my criticism despite how much I despise their government. People are dying, and while I would like to continue criticizing their government, I have kept my mouth shut until now cause it does not seem like the right time to bring up politics. Quarantining entire cities and hiding information to prevent mass panic are not measures I agree with, but I can understand their desperation. Trying to contain and cure a highly contagious disease is not exactly easy, especially when you have lots of dense cities near each other.

However, lying about how great they are handling it, telling the world to follow their leadership, and outright blaming the United States for simply stating the truth is just fucking disgusting. I still held my tongue when they were criticizing the United States for not doing more to help, cause that sounds pretty reasonable. But blaming us for stating the truth and not going along with their propaganda, though? That just crosses way over the line for me, and they deserve a massive slap across the face.

[eclipse]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Russia is democratic...ostensibly.

I don't consider it one.  Even if America's politics aren't the best, the candidates tend to survive past the election.

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Excuse my strong language, but the outbreak has been going on for months now and I have withheld much of my criticism despite how much I despise their government. People are dying, and while I would like to continue criticizing their government, I have kept my mouth shut until now cause it does not seem like the right time to bring up politics. Quarantining entire cities and hiding information to prevent mass panic are not measures I agree with, but I can understand their desperation. Trying to contain and cure a highly contagious disease is not exactly easy, especially when you have lots of dense cities near each other.

However, lying about how great they are handling it, telling the world to follow their leadership, and outright blaming the United States for simply stating the truth is just fucking disgusting. I still held my tongue when they were criticizing the United States for not doing more to help, cause that sounds pretty reasonable. But blaming us for stating the truth and not going along with their propaganda, though? That just crosses way over the line for me, and they deserve a massive slap across the face.

Hence why I didn't give you an actual warning.

However, there's a line between criticism and spewing hate, and you went way past it.  I know you're unhappy with China's government, and I don't blame you.  But being hateful about it isn't constructive.

[XRay]

3 hours ago, eclipse said:

However, there's a line between criticism and spewing hate, and you went way past it.  I know you're unhappy with China's government, and I don't blame you.  But being hateful about it isn't constructive.

Maybe I am taking it a bit personally, but how they have acted for the past several years just really pisses me off. There is not really another way to let off steam easily other than expressing my hatred. I do not think our government handled it perfectly either, but we seem to be doing okay so far. However, what Pooh Bear wants is the American government to be complicit in helping them spreading disinformation, and if we do that, it would jeopardize American citizens' health—OUR health. I am not so worried about me or my friends dying, but our parents and grandparents are not exactly young anymore, and older people are at a much higher risk of dying. I guess it is that blatant disregard for the health and lives of fellow Americans and our older family members is what rubs me the wrong way. This is not just propaganda ruining movies or videogames anymore, this is about the potential lives of families, neighbors, and fellow citizens.

As for being constructive, I guess I can write to my representatives and politicians to make my voice heard, and that sounds like a good idea.

Maybe this anger is what non-Americans similarly feel when our government does dumb shit around the world.

Edited March 1, 2020 by XRay

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, XRay said:

Excuse my strong language, but the outbreak has been going on for months now and I have withheld much of my criticism despite how much I despise their government. People are dying, and while I would like to continue criticizing their government, I have kept my mouth shut until now cause it does not seem like the right time to bring up politics. Quarantining entire cities and hiding information to prevent mass panic are not measures I agree with, but I can understand their desperation. Trying to contain and cure a highly contagious disease is not exactly easy, especially when you have lots of dense cities near each other.

However, lying about how great they are handling it, telling the world to follow their leadership, and outright blaming the United States for simply stating the truth is just fucking disgusting. I still held my tongue when they were criticizing the United States for not doing more to help, cause that sounds pretty reasonable. But blaming us for stating the truth and not going along with their propaganda, though? That just crosses way over the line for me, and they deserve a massive slap across the face.

Hiding information is of course pretty shady, but what why would you object to quarantining cities? One of the biggest criticisms you can level at China's handling of this situation is that they didn't resort to quarantine quick enough.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Jotari

[XRay]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Hiding information is of course pretty shady, but what why would you object to quarantining cities? One of the biggest criticisms you can level at China's handling of this situation is that they didn't resort to quarantine quick enough.

An indiscriminate quarantine of entire cities is a little extreme in my opinion. I cannot think of any really good alternatives, so I understand why they did it.

I would have preferred a more targeted approach and quarantining only sick individuals and have security checkpoints around the city to make sure sick individuals are not leaving. It is more risky though, since there is a chance of accidentally letting a sick person out.

[eclipse]

10 hours ago, XRay said:

Maybe I am taking it a bit personally, but how they have acted for the past several years just really pisses me off. There is not really another way to let off steam easily other than expressing my hatred. I do not think our government handled it perfectly either, but we seem to be doing okay so far. However, what Pooh Bear wants is the American government to be complicit in helping them spreading disinformation, and if we do that, it would jeopardize American citizens' health—OUR health. I am not so worried about me or my friends dying, but our parents and grandparents are not exactly young anymore, and older people are at a much higher risk of dying. I guess it is that blatant disregard for the health and lives of fellow Americans and our older family members is what rubs me the wrong way. This is not just propaganda ruining movies or videogames anymore, this is about the potential lives of families, neighbors, and fellow citizens.

As for being constructive, I guess I can write to my representatives and politicians to make my voice heard, and that sounds like a good idea.

Maybe this anger is what non-Americans similarly feel when our government does dumb shit around the world.

Express your hatred in Notepad.  Can't warn you if it never makes it on SF!

The rest of your paragraph is a good point.  Being dishonest about the virus puts the entire world in danger.  And for what?  To save face?  To make sure the rest of the governments don't start to question how China is run?  It's going to happen anyway.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, XRay said:

An indiscriminate quarantine of entire cities is a little extreme in my opinion. I cannot think of any really good alternatives, so I understand why they did it.

I would have preferred a more targeted approach and quarantining only sick individuals and have security checkpoints around the city to make sure sick individuals are not leaving. It is more risky though, since there is a chance of accidentally letting a sick person out.

That's not what quarantine means. Isolating sick people is called, well isolation. Quarantine means isolating everyone who has potentially been  in contact with sick people, and the Corona Virus is a fantastic example of why that's necessary as the virus incubates for two weeks before developing symptoms. That means people who appear to be healthy are actually infecting people before they get sick. Isolating only the sick people would be pissing in the wind in such a situation as you'd still be letting countless infectious people out.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Jotari

[XRay]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That's not what quarantine means. Isolating sick people is called, well isolation. Quarantine means isolating everyone who has potentially been  in contact with sick people, and the Corona Virus is a fantastic example of why that's necessary as the virus incubates for two weeks before developing symptoms. That means people who appear to be healthy are actually infecting people before they get sick. Isolating only the sick people would be pissing in the wind in such a situation as you'd still be letting countless infectious people out.

That is fair. I am just not sure how effective quarantines actually are since it is still managed to slip past containment. California is starting to have a few cases already and that is with people who have not travelled outside the country or had known contact with infected patients.

[Jotari]

10 minutes ago, XRay said:

That is fair. I am just not sure how effective quarantines actually are since it is still managed to slip past containment. California is starting to have a few cases already and that is with people who have not travelled outside the country or had known contact with infected patients.

Well like I said, one of the biggest complaints you can throw at China is that they didn't quarantine fast enough. The virus is already in like 80 countries or something. You can bet if there were no quarantine at all it would be a hell of a lot more widespread. The issue with the Corona virus is much less how deadly it is, and more how infectious it is. Quarantining is absolutely necessary. And I say this as someone who is living in East Asia and could have my entire world turned upside down over night due to sudden quarantine regulations banning my travel. That would massively suck for me personally, but it makes a tonne of sense. China's quarantine measures are by no means extreme. If something like this happened in a western country we'd be doing the exact same thing. And I know that for a fact because when I was young there was a major scare with a virus called Foot and Mouth that infected cattle. We were informed that if it transferred to humans then nobody in the entire country would be allowed to go outside (which for my prepubescent mind meant the singular point of no school). That (or possibly mad cow disease) is the reason you still can't bring meat from Europe to America even thirty years later. Quarantine sucks for the people it hits and its a great way to make your government look callous and evil in your scifi, but it is absolutely vital for containing something infectious. Like you say there is simply no alternative.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

China's quarantine measures are by no means extreme. If something like this happened in a western country we'd be doing the exact same thing.

I wouldn't say that.

Yes, quarantine would be done in the West, but the Chinese government has no regard for human rights and is very experienced in enacting measures that trample on the rights and wants of its peoples. The West wouldn't be so inconsiderate of peoples' desires to live ordinary happy lives that might spread disease easier. China's dictatorial, massive, centralized government was able to build large emergency Coronavirus hospitals in a couple weeks' time to boot;  I'm not sure in that amount of time Congress would even get to a vote on funding a CDC proposal of similar kind in the US.

This said, quarantines have been used for centuries, and even if they don't stop the spread of disease altogether, they do it slow it down somewhat at least.

 

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

The issue with the Corona virus is much less how deadly it is, and more how infectious it is.

Although I have no citable sources, I've been watching plenty of news interviews with what seemed to be reputable health professionals. And from what I've gathered over time.:

• The death rate of Coronavirus is 2-3%. Which is ~20 times deadlier than the flu (speaking of which, I've heard current flu season has killed a record number of children in the US).
• For ~80% of people, Coronavirus is no worse than a common cold or flu, the remaining ~20% people will need hospitalization though.
• MRSA and SARS are both forms of Coronavirus, albeit older ones, hence the current Coronavirus being called "Novel Coronavirus"- it's a new strain. Both old viruses are much deadlier, but much, much less contagious.

[Jotari]

13 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I wouldn't say that.

Yes, quarantine would be done in the West, but the Chinese government has no regard for human rights and is very experienced in enacting measures that trample on the rights and wants of its peoples. The West wouldn't be so inconsiderate of peoples' desires to live ordinary happy lives that might spread disease easier. China's dictatorial, massive, centralized government was able to build large emergency Coronavirus hospitals in a couple weeks' time to boot;  I'm not sure in that amount of time Congress would even get to a vote on funding a CDC proposal of similar kind in the US.

This said, quarantines have been used for centuries, and even if they don't stop the spread of disease altogether, they do it slow it down somewhat at least.

I have friends in China that are living in the lock down areas (though not Wuhan itself) and the extent of it is that they are not allowed to go outside. That is what Quarantine is in this situation and it's exactly the same thing I was told would be the case if Foot and Mouth developed further when I was a child. And I'm reasonable certain historic quarantines in western countries have followed the exact same pattern. Frankly speaking this isn't a situation where the wants and right of the people being quarantined matter. Nobody wants to suddenly find themselves under house arrest, but that is the reality of containment and the people there if they're copped on know it because they also don't want to contract a potentially deadly illness.

[Tetragrammaton]

It's easy to blame China for everything they do or not do but I bet Western countries cannot handle quarantine more effectively than China.