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[DATAMINE] Special Heroes Arrive! Greil's Devoted!

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1 hour ago, Water Mage said:

I wouldn’t call it double standards really. The last Ike alt we got was Legendary Ike and L!Ike was released a year ago. So there isn’t an Ike fatigue, as opposed to Camilla, Lucina and Lyn fatigue.

Except Lucina's was an 11 month difference, I guess a month is major deciding factor to flip a table & what not

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Honestly, when I don't use Ike x Elincia, I just say Ike met a lovely girl who has the right personality and values to him and loves cooking and he married and had a family with her. :P It's just the simplest and most adorable idea to me. And it could be why he never went back to Tellius, he wanted to stay right where he was for his new wife and later, children. I still think he'd have at least VISITED though, to show his new family the place he called home and those who were his old family and friends. And Mist would love to meet her nieces/nephews, I bet! This is the reason I think Ike's ending is just a pile of shit. It feels so forced and out of character for him.

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1 hour ago, ArgentSable said:

 Cipher explains further upon his story, and even shows him wielding Ragnell whilst covered in blue flames, while stating that a Legendary Hero with the very blade he carried traveled to the world they inhabit (Archanaea) and traveled to grow stronger.

That idea is so freaking dumb that its little wonder why Priam isn't a popular character anywhere.

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1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

That idea is so freaking dumb that its little wonder why Priam isn't a popular character anywhere.

How much screen time did Priam really get?

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8 minutes ago, ArgentSable said:

Not to mention the wording used in japanese (Shishon) is indicative of lineal descent, not branched descent. But I digress

Although in the general context of Fire Emblem, said word is also used for Marth as a descendent of Anri, and Anri died loveless and childless. It is his younger brother Marcelus from whom Marth is descended, which is not lineal.

 

8 minutes ago, ArgentSable said:

Thus why I rather just assume Ike followed Zeglius' footsteps and ended up raising some orphan like him before dying and handing his sword and shiz off. Just fits his nonchalant, doesn't want to be remembered personality.

And to be fair, the great Japanese master of the sword Musashi just used adoption to keep his school and family line intact. Medieval Japan did allow for fairly generous adoption rules- Hideyoshi considered "adopting" Ieyasu or one of his other generals of his age as his son before Hideyori popped out.

 

And as for Cipher, it isn't necessarily canon, at least to any world that has been observed in a game.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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2 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

That idea is so freaking dumb that its little wonder why Priam isn't a popular character anywhere.

Why is it dumb? IS chose to expand upon Ike's story as they saw fit. It's their IP after all.

 

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

How much screen time did Priam really get?

In Awakening? His chapter, the supports, ending dialogue, and not sure what else. Cipher expanded upon IS apparent decision to keep him linked to Ike as well. Honestly, once he's in Heroes, and since we always get lore tidbits in Heroes, I hope we get to see more.

 

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Although in the general context of Fire Emblem, said word is also used for Marth as a descendent of Anri, and Anri died loveless and childless. It is his younger brother Marcelus from whom Marth is descended, which is not lineal.

 

And to be fair, the great Japanese master of the sword Musashi just used adoption to keep his school and family line intact. Medieval Japan did allow for fairly generous adoption rules- Hideyoshi considered "adopting" Ieyasu or one of his other generals of his age as his son before Hideyori popped out.

Yeah the Marth/Anri debacle thing does have some leniency. Though I still find Mist' descendants finding Ike's cracked, broken ass shit in his grave rather, disturbing. But that's me. And yeah I based my whole adoption thing similarly to Musashi. Ike is a warrior at heart, and Zelgius his eventual final teacher. I would think he'd likely follow in the footsteps of the warrior he found his equal in. Just, yknow, not int he whole turn evil to find a worthy opponent level of Zelgius.

 

But yeah, I really hope Priam get's in Heroes. I want to see what he'll say. Normally, most dialogue in Heroes is rather normal, but some characters with lesser lore (like Grima for example) got a lot more interesting with Heroes in tow.

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Just now, ArgentSable said:

Why is it dumb? IS chose to expand upon Ike's story as they saw fit. It's their IP after all.

That doesn't mean the team who did Awakening did Tellius. Look at all the mistakes they made with Archanea for one.

And yeah, Ike traveling to Archanea with Ragnell for some reason, then having a kid with some random girl is bad fanfiction tier.

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5 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

That doesn't mean the team who did Awakening did Tellius. Look at all the mistakes they made with Archanea for one.

And yeah, Ike traveling to Archanea with Ragnell for some reason, then having a kid with some random girl is bad fanfiction tier.

Simply if you dislike it doesn't mean it's bad dude. Hell, him traveling the world and arriving in Archanaea fits at least in the traveling to grow stronger part.

But you will have your PoV.

Edit: Might I add Tellius didn't sell well nor was it extremely popular in the FE fanbase in Japan (their largest fanbase) for whatever reason. So, they kinda decided to modify it as time went on from the looks of it. At least, that's what I see.

Edited by ArgentSable

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18 minutes ago, ArgentSable said:

It is convoluted when Mist and nobody who remains in RD knows of his whereabouts according to his ending. Like, assuming Mist' descendants find him at all is going against the ending of RD in a nutshell. Furthermore, they'd need to arrive at Archanaea via Outrealm (instead of every other world), find his grave, loot his fucking grave somehow knowing it's him, and then after desecrating his corpse (cause if Ragnell is in tatters I doubt they'd find him alive), wearing it all. That's not only convoluted, it's just not right. Not to mention the wording used in japanese (Shishon) is indicative of lineal descent, not branched descent. But I digress

Furthermore, Ike being with Soren, and feeling the apparent need to be with another woman if he truly does love Soren, really doesn't bode well for the ship if that's what you need to have Priam be a thing.

Thus why I rather just assume Ike followed Zeglius' footsteps and ended up raising some orphan like him before dying and handing his sword and shiz off. Just fits his nonchalant, doesn't want to be remembered personality.

Also lol Spring Scramble

The ending only states they never found him during their lifetime though, not that his whereabouts were never known afterwards so her descendants finding him isn’t off the table. I don’t see how arriving at Archanaea would be a problem since everyone seems to conveniently end up where they need to be whenever they use that. I imagine his grave would have his name on the tombstone but like regardless they don’t even have to find his grave. All that needs to be found is Ragnell and I don’t see why he would be buried with it.

It’s not that I’m saying Ike feels the need to be with a woman as much as I’m saying they might have decided to have a child and had some assistance with it. It’s strictly business.

Adoption seems like something Ike would do but that’s neither here nor there.

Edited by NegativeExponents-

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1 minute ago, NegativeExponents- said:

The ending only states they never found him during their lifetime though, not that his whereabouts were never known afterwards so her descendants finding him isn’t off the table. I don’t see how arriving at Archanaea would be a problem since everyone seems to conveniently end up where they need to be whenever they use that. I imagine his grave would have his name on the tombstone but like regardless they don’t even have to find his grave. All that needs to be found is Ragnell and I don’t see why he would be buried with it.

It’s not that I’m saying Ike feels the need to be with a woman as much as I’m saying they might have decided to have a child and had some assistance with it. It’s strictly business.

Adoption seems like something Ike would but that’s neither here nor there.

Sure, the gates get you where you need to go, that's perfectly fine. But if they have to find Ragnell, and he's dead. Where'd they get his cape from? Where'd they learn to pass on the components of aether in the hopes his descendants would master it?

And having kids for "strickltly business" to me doesn't make sense if Ike is to be with Soren. He doesn't need to have children at that point, adoption makes the most sense. At least, as I always say, it's how I see it. Who knows for real.

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9 minutes ago, ArgentSable said:

Sure, the gates get you where you need to go, that's perfectly fine. But if they have to find Ragnell, and he's dead. Where'd they get his cape from? Where'd they learn to pass on the components of aether in the hopes his descendants would master it?

And having kids for "strickltly business" to me doesn't make sense if Ike is to be with Soren. He doesn't need to have children at that point, adoption makes the most sense. At least, as I always say, it's how I see it. Who knows for real.

Is the cape even stated to be the same one Ike owned? And as for Aether, why does it have to be passed down? Chrom and Lucina are able to use it no problem and they aren’t Ike’s descendants and Marth certainly didn’t use Aether but there they are using it to an even better extent than Priam since he doesn’t even have it at all. Priam’s Aether is just a makeshift one. Not even the real deal.

And as for why choose to do have kids that way instead of adoption? I don’t know honestly it’s just an option that he might have preferred or something. Maybe he just wanted to pass down his genes rather than adopt which is a very common reason as to why people use surrogates instead of adopting.

Edited by NegativeExponents-

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It's fascinating to me how the shipping culture assumes love and relationships are both eternal. Even in the context of Fire Emblem alone, we know that this isn't true - there are at least a few examples of divorced characters. For all we know, Ike could be the Elizabeth Taylor of FE. All the ships could be accurate *even within the same timeline*. Who knows, he might have a genetic legacy to rival Genghis Khan.

Edited by Humanoid

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Well, I just hope FEH keeps surprising us. Other than the hot springs seasonal, the year started well with the surprise characters, with the laguz, Duma, and now Greil. Just how it used to be the first year ;):

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Just thought I could add my two cents on the subject of Priam...

Going off the information we have, I believe that he is descended from Mist and Boyd. Ike leaves with either Soren or Ranulf, and I find it hard to believe that he would settle down with some random maiden after not showing any romantic interest in anyone during both games he's in. Priam just claims to be descended from Ike, because he pretty much is, with Ike being his great x??? uncle. There's a precedent for this, as seen where Marth is said to be descended from Anri, but is actually descended from Anri's brother.

...What if Chrom/Lissa/Emmeryn/Lucina/Owain aren't descended from Marth, and are instead descended from Elice and Merric? Hmm...

 

Anyways. Titania looks gorgeous, the red is so vibrant! I might just keep her for her art alone.

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1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Also, the thing about gay people reproducing, does that not require a special procedure, one that would not exist in the time of Fire Emblem? I'm not sure, so correct me if I am wrong.  

Not necessarily, gay people can have straight sex and have heterosexual relationships, especially if they feel the need to hide their sexuality.

If Priam is his direct ancestor I'd expect the answer is closer to that than him and Soren getting a surrogate mother. If anything Priam being canon points to Ike not getting a happy ending. It's interesting that some people are more willing to accept a bonus character in an unrelated game (which butchers lore from its own continent btw) as canon rather than two entire games worth of character development for Ike and Soren though.

59 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, this exactly. I mentioned before I have two OCs whose close friendship is kinda based off Ike and Soren's, but what I didn't also say is that I plan for them to get a hug scene too, and with one of the two crying, just as in the case with Ike and Soren. Yet, as I had said, these two characters get with women and aren't gay.

No offense, but your OCs aren't proof of anything. I can make two OCs based on Alm and Celica who are gay best friends but that doesn't mean the characters I based them off aren't straight.

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29 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

That doesn't mean the team who did Awakening did Tellius. Look at all the mistakes they made with Archanea for one.

And yeah, Ike traveling to Archanea with Ragnell for some reason, then having a kid with some random girl is bad fanfiction tier.

How does changing lore in a setting 2000 years after the original mean they made mistakes? If anything, they just made a case that something happened between the time periods. ANYTHING can happen between the time periods. Like how in FE3, all Earth Dragons were meant to have been sealed but Medeus, but lo and behold, FE4 has Kaga retcon that by saying that another Earth Dragon had managed to avoid this fate somehow.

Or how Kaga said in FE3 that Gotoh arrived and taught magic centuries ago, but he taught magic when he founded Khadein, which the timeline stated was 50 years ago, so Kaga couldn't even keep track of his own time periods. 

Or a novelization claims that Lifis went to Archanea and founded the Archanean Kingdom, indicating that Lifis is Adrah, which is 100% false because the Archanean Kingdom was not until 400 years after Genealogy, so Lifis can't be Adrah.

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3 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

Not necessarily, gay people can have straight sex and have heterosexual relationships, especially if they feel the need to hide their sexuality.

If Priam is his direct ancestor I'd expect the answer is closer to that than him and Soren getting a surrogate mother. If anything Priam being canon points to Ike not getting a happy ending. It's interesting that some people are more willing to accept a bonus character in an unrelated game (which butchers lore from its own continent btw) as canon rather than two entire games worth of character development for Ike and Soren though.

As I mentioned before, nothing about Priam is fully confirmed to be truly Ike's blood descendant. Could be indirect blood descendant, or could be a random kid that Ike picked up. Or maybe Ike did find someone else. 

But no matter how much development you see happen, there'll be cases where a writer can end up doing away with that.

Take Avatar: The Last Airbender. Cartoon ends with Zuko and Mai getting together, and its perfect for some. Comic ends up with them breaking up and no way of knowing if they ever got back together again. You can have 2 games, an entire life where two characters seem perfect and are together, and then broken up by some means. It can be shit writing, or it can make legit sense. 

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I'm calling it, Ike and Soren used Lethe to help with reproduction. They should have made a character based on Soren, only fair if they both get something out of it.

I just think its difficult to judge about it. Almost anything can happen, Fire emblem had no such situation written in stone. But if we believe in something it could happen. Sometimes I don't know if it leads us anything to be obsessed about trying to find the canon way. Because the devs/writers clearly give us enough food to make our own choices.

Priam could be just from another timeline where Ike is not together with Soren or Ranulf for example. I see Ike as one who does not care about gender in any way.So he may give not much thoughts about who he ends up with and floats with it. Like we decide Awakening parings, Ike also has been decided differently through other steps. We have deus ex machina in Fire Emblem all along to change a few inconsistencies. Why don't we just use it. 

Edited by Stroud

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1 minute ago, Stroud said:

I'm calling it, Ike and Soren used Lethe to help with reproduction. They should have made a character based on Soren, only fair if they both get something out of it.

Close, Ike went studding all of Tellius after RD. Who didn't want his children? He left Tellius because he was getting exhausted from how much he was doing.

 

And I do think it is worth remembering Soren's archetype- the Merric. He is male, green hair, a mage, affinity for wind magic, earliest availability among mages in a game. And, he has a strong personal connection to the main character. Merric had this, Asbel had this, neither was gay for their lord, and Soren has it too. Of course, there is always room within an archetype for deviation- see the Minerva.

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