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Which units do you love as a character but wish were better units?


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6 hours ago, Garlyle said:

 Really? He didn't feel like a bad unit to me, he can hit pretty haaaard. Added Hard Mode bonuses, he became a monster of his own.

I dunno - being axelocked and having godawful skill is a match made in hell. What good is being able to hit hard if, you know, you cannot hit worth a damn??? Also, I don't see hard mode bonuses helping him much when - le gaspe - the enemy gets them too, meaning he's in the same unenviable position, if not worse off than he would be on normal mode.

6 hours ago, ping said:

What do you mean by that? If you took his crit away, Gonzo would still be a super strong, decently fast unit. The added bonus of his 30 crit is that it makes killing enemies that he doubles and 2HKOs a bit more reliable because it might make up for a miss.

(also a little reminder that Lv. 13/1 Gonzales has basically the same innate hit as 15/5 Allen. Against lance users, Gonzales is really good once he promotes - his problem is his lack of options against other weapon types)

Underlined: This is ignoring that Gonzales needs a Hero Crest to promote - and the fact that there are only two before the secret shop in the first place. I have a VERY hard time making a case for Gonzales to get one of them...

Edited by Shadow Mir
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Most of the mages in RD could use a boost in my opinion (barring Soren as I refuse to use him).

However my personal pick would be Micaiah. She's one of the main Lords and needs a massive boost to keep up with the other big characters in terms of combat utility, as much as I love her. One thing I would do is add dark tomes to her, as well as fiddle with her bases and growths. If she's gonna be frail as all get out at least give her a speed boost so she can double. A personal tome that isn't Thani for the tower (akin to Ragnell or Amiti) would be great for her as well.

I also have to say Lucia. I adore her character and design so it's sad that she's a lackluster sword user when compared to others that had time to be trained.

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Underlined: This is ignoring that Gonzales needs a Hero Crest to promote - and the fact that there are only two before the secret shop in the first place. I have a VERY hard time making a case for Gonzales to get one of them...

Deciding who to give the 2nd Hero Crest is a fairly inconsequential choice. There's a couple units competing for it that can be moderately useful after promoting - Deke, Fir, Gonzales, even Lott - but they're all fairly low-impact at that point in the game, even Deke, who I would still consider the best recipient (assuming that Rutger promoted first). If you ask me, the biggest investment you need in order to promote Gonzo is training him. Deke has absolutely no issue getting to promotion level, if not level 20, before you even get the Crest; Fir, while ever more underleveled, can gain XP easily and quickly against all the axe users; and even Lott, if you're invested in him, should be ready to promote by this point. Meanwhile, Gonzo doesn't have the +10 hit from promotion yet (and no WTA, either), so his hitrates are crummy almost all of the time. There's a reason why quite a few people consider ElphinRoute!Gonzales to be the better version even though his stats don't reflect his higher base level.

While I think that people overhate on poor ol' Gonzales, I still don't consider him good - he's shaky when he joins, both because of his stats and the enemy composition at that point and still has his flaws later (only good against one weapon type, even if it's the predominant one; too fat to be carried around) - but a promoted Gonzales sitting on a peak in chapter 21 while carrying a Killer Axe is a sight to behold.

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The Hero of the Ages.

Not better for me, mind you, but better for the non-believers. So that the noise ratio would be lower and one could exchange comments and strategies involving him, instead of arguing about his usability every time.

Edited by starburst
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3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I dunno - being axelocked and having godawful skill is a match made in hell. What good is being able to hit hard if, you know, you cannot hit worth a damn??? Also, I don't see hard mode bonuses helping him much when - le gaspe - the enemy gets them too, meaning he's in the same unenviable position, if not worse off than he would be on normal mode.

Underlined: This is ignoring that Gonzales needs a Hero Crest to promote - and the fact that there are only two before the secret shop in the first place. I have a VERY hard time making a case for Gonzales to get one of them...

I am so glad that the FE series scrapped class-specific seals in favor of master seals. It makes for such a huge quality of life improvement.

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I like Rebecca's character and also she looks cute so she is mine. But I can accept that her lack of 1-range and terrible bases alongside not that actually great growths (I mean none are above 70% which for a unit that will level as slowly as hers is a problem and 60% and 50% are still annoying to deal with, they aren't that high) so I agree she is a bad unit, doesn't stop me from using her though! 

@Etheus "I am so glad that the FE series scrapped class-specific seals in favor of master seals. It makes for such a huge quality of life improvement." 

I don't like master seals as much, I feel like because of it the maps were designed a bit worse because now they [IS] couldn't design it around who was probably promoted by a certain point and you could also break the game easily if you can promote 2 fliers very quickly where as in a pre FE9 game you wouldn't get your 2nd elysian whip a but later and so it would be a bit more balanced in that criteria. (Then again Fe13 and 14 removed rescue and drop by Pair up and Sepparate, which I don't like as much)

Edited by Critical Sniper
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2 hours ago, Critical Sniper said:

I don't like master seals as much, I feel like because of it the maps were designed a bit worse because now they [IS] couldn't design it around who was probably promoted by a certain point and you could also break the game easily if you can promote 2 fliers very quickly where as in a pre FE9 game you wouldn't get your 2nd elysian whip a but later and so it would be a bit more balanced in that criteria. (Then again Fe13 and 14 removed rescue and drop by Pair up and Sepparate, which I don't like as much)

I disagree - at this point, nothing good can come of going back to class specific promotion items. Hell, I dare say it would bring about worse issues.

3 hours ago, starburst said:

The Hero of the Ages.

Not better for me, mind you, but better for the non-believers. So that the noise ratio would be lower and one could exchange comments and strategies involving him, instead of arguing about his usability every time.

You gotta admit, we're talking about an extremely polarizing unit here. Gonzales is either liked for his high speed and attack, or he's hated because he's locked to axes in a game where axes are drearily inaccurate, in addition to having crap skill.

3 hours ago, Etheus said:

I am so glad that the FE series scrapped class-specific seals in favor of master seals. It makes for such a huge quality of life improvement.

Ditto. I hope they don't go back to class specific promotion items if they remake the GBA games - it would be a MASSIVE step backwards.

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2 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Ditto. I hope they don't go back to class specific promotion items if they remake the GBA games - it would be a MASSIVE step backwards.

not so massive. Tell me is it so bad that you wont play a GBA game again/ The issues arent even as bad and it makes it more enjoyable for me. Or say something like FE8's Orion Bolt which only neimi can use such things I like.

Also GBA FE would be way different in it's balancing if they gave you master seals instead. I much rather they actually implement the con system it originally had, sometimes inconveniences are necessary and sometimes those inconveniences aren't too hard to get around.

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1 hour ago, Critical Sniper said:

not so massive. Tell me is it so bad that you wont play a GBA game again/ The issues arent even as bad and it makes it more enjoyable for me. Or say something like FE8's Orion Bolt which only neimi can use such things I like.

Also GBA FE would be way different in it's balancing if they gave you master seals instead. I much rather they actually implement the con system it originally had, sometimes inconveniences are necessary and sometimes those inconveniences aren't too hard to get around.

The fact still remains that the last game to use class specific promotion items came out a decade and a half ago. That's... a VERY long time ago. Also, only one GBA game actually is worth playing imo. BTW, you just shot yourself in the foot by mentioning the Orion Bolt in FE8. And I say hell to the no to the con system - inconveniences are inconveniences, no matter which way you slice it.

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5 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

The fact still remains that the last game to use class specific promotion items came out a decade and a half ago. That's... a VERY long time ago. Also, only one GBA game actually is worth playing imo. BTW, you just shot yourself in the foot by mentioning the Orion Bolt in FE8. And I say hell to the no to the con system - inconveniences are inconveniences, no matter which way you slice it.

So? It may be old but that doesn't necesarily make it bad, they also almost where the last games to have Rescue and Drop so they are bad right.

Only one GBA game is worth playing? Yeah right, let the entire community tell you their opinions on that.

No I was actually making a point about how it gives advantages to certain units for whom that promotion item is only for them and you can also sell it with no remorse unlike a Master Seal which you keep forever thinking "HMM maybe I'll use it for someone later on" and then never use it or sell it.

Constitution was actually a fairly good way to balance weapons, without it we get Awakening style weapons where there is no disadvantage to using a steel sword and in Fates it made it feel necessary to add crap ton of stupid effects. But with Con you can balance it in the best way possible. Or with a unit like for example Isadora who doubles when using a lighter weapon, like a sword or Silver Lance and not with a much heavier one like a hand axe, but in the following games you cant do such a thing, you either make speed high or low and you cant do any of this low con high speed stuff, which isn't super bad really. 

Also con isn't so annoying to deal with and I would take that system over Fates', no matter which way you slice it, 14's weapon system is an inconvenience.

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21 minutes ago, Critical Sniper said:

So? It may be old but that doesn't necesarily make it bad, they also almost where the last games to have Rescue and Drop so they are bad right.

Only one GBA game is worth playing? Yeah right, let the entire community tell you their opinions on that.

No I was actually making a point about how it gives advantages to certain units for whom that promotion item is only for them and you can also sell it with no remorse unlike a Master Seal which you keep forever thinking "HMM maybe I'll use it for someone later on" and then never use it or sell it.

Constitution was actually a fairly good way to balance weapons, without it we get Awakening style weapons where there is no disadvantage to using a steel sword and in Fates it made it feel necessary to add crap ton of stupid effects. But with Con you can balance it in the best way possible. Or with a unit like for example Isadora who doubles when using a lighter weapon, like a sword or Silver Lance and not with a much heavier one like a hand axe, but in the following games you cant do such a thing, you either make speed high or low and you cant do any of this low con high speed stuff, which isn't super bad really. 

Also con isn't so annoying to deal with and I would take that system over Fates', no matter which way you slice it, 14's weapon system is an inconvenience.

Apples and oranges. That's all I will say there.

You do realize you're addressing someone who thinks Binding Blade and Sacred Stones are among the weakest FE entries, do you not?

I think that's really reaching, personally.

I dunno about you, but I honestly liked that Fates' weapon system actually made me think about what weapon was the best for which situation (in addition to nerfing javelins and hand axes). Otherwise, we get stuff where some weapons are just plain not worth using (admittedly, this is still an issue in Fates, but I think it was worse in some other games). Like steel weapons in general being worse than iron because the units that would want them the most get punished for using them, whereas others (often males) get off scot free. I consider that bullshit of the highest order. Or we get stuff where it's okay to spam your best weapons and call it a day, like in just about every other FE game.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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49 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

You do realize you're addressing someone who thinks Binding Blade and Sacred Stones are among the weakest FE entries, do you not?

Gaiden I would say is a weaker entry alongside FE1 both because they are so clunky. But you're wrong, those 2 games are fun and the weakest entry is FE14 for me, I dont feel like it does anything to make the player enjoy it, it only has dumb difficulty or annoying stuff. FE8 doesn't and FE6 is not as bad as people say.

 

49 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I dunno about you, but I honestly liked that Fates' weapon system actually made me think about what weapon was the best for which situation (in addition to nerfing javelins and hand axes). Otherwise, we get stuff where some weapons are just plain not worth using (admittedly, this is still an issue in Fates, but I think it was worse in some other games). Like steel weapons in general being worse than iron because the units that would want them the most get punished for using them, whereas others (often males) get off scot free. I consider that bullshit of the highest order. Or we get stuff where it's okay to spam your best weapons and call it a day, like in just about every other FE game.

All Fates system does is make it so I only use Iron weapons and hand axes for some enemy phases. I'm never using a steel sword over an Iron one when I'm doing more damage doubling with an Iron Sword and I dont really like it nerfing you, that doesnt make sense, weight does. And the million effects system doesnt make me plan which weapon to use, unless say I use a Nohrian Blade which is an obvious always (Def +3). 

Also this shows how little you know about GBA FE. Almost nobody can use a Steel Sword unimpeded while still unpromoted, with a few exceptions like Lowen, male units will get slowed down by 1-5 points of speed (That -5 speed comes from the absolute trash can that is Guy but everyone else is 1-3) and male units are generally slower so it's balanced too, whilst female units with higher speed may be able to double even with a heavier weapon, just showing how much the "Oh no I get slowed down by 2!" panic attack many people get doesn't matter.

In fact your point goes exactly the other way around lel, female units are mostly better with the con system than males because even if males dont get slowed down their speed is always the same where as a fast female unit doesn't just have a higher chance of doubling even with a weapon that weighs her down but also can equip a weapon that doesnt slow her down (Like an iron Sword) to make use of her full pool of speed, and most of the time Doubling actually beats doing a Single Attack (In fact the only times it's worse is if you're doing 1-5 x 2 damage and even then you also have to consider if it's between Steel and Iron or Silver and Steel), to double some fast enemies whilst a male unit (Like Lowen) can't increase their speed by instead of using a steel sword grabbing an Iron sword.

Edited by Critical Sniper
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???????

Are we pretending that fast male characters in the GBA games aren't a thing now? I agree with Shadow Mir about how the Con system put characters(mostly females) with low con in a disadvantage.

 

Anyway, as for the topic of this thread, I will say....my daughter Meg from FE10 ;___; I love her, but like....hmm, she could be better, I guess her start is the hardest part of using her though.  

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10 minutes ago, Rose482 said:

???????

Are we pretending that fast male characters in the GBA games aren't a thing now? I agree with Shadow Mir about how the Con system put characters(mostly females) with low con in a disadvantage.

No I'm not (when did I say that? Quoting would be really useful), but they aren't exactly super common like only Rutger, Karel, Guy, Raven, Lucius, Franz, and Gerik (I probably missed like 2 and I'm excluding the thiefs because they aren't exactly combat units, except some like Astore and Legault) are fast, the rest of male characters are more average speed whereas msot female units are fast from the get go.

@Bolded Lol no, if it really put them at a disadvantage how come they are still doubling and sometimes still have higher speed than unimpeded males. The con system here balances it so that women don't just spam Silver Blades and with high skill double and kill everything and outright best men. Look at Isadora, she doubles despite her low con unless you use a weapon with 12 or more weight(Those usually being where the stronger weapons start) and sometimes is still even faster than some male units even when slowed down. I will repeat this again and again, losing points in speed isn't an outright death sentence for units to not double it doesn't benefit or annoy male units but I would say it balances female units to retain their high speed but not being able to double in every single scenario.

Edited by Critical Sniper
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Isadora doubles becasue FE7 isn't known for having fast enemy units, which gives character with okay speed and good con a very good advantage over characters with low con/good speed/low power kind of units.

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Just now, Rose482 said:

Isadora doubles becasue FE7 isn't known for having fast enemy units, which gives character with okay speed and good con a very good advantage over characters with low con/good speed/low power kind of units.

That would be wrong, Isadora doubles because she has high speed, if we bomb dropped her in FE6 in like Chapter 12 or something you would see her still doubling, another unit like her is FE6 Echidna and despite her low con she still doubles with Iron axes and sometimes with steel axes and even more so if you level her up, and remember FE6 enemies are way tougher than 7's like every stat for FE6 units is like 1-3 points higher so doing this is a bigger feat than Isadora.

Echidna just proves that low con isn't a death sentence for doubling enemies, atleast if Isadora doesn't.

Another example is Shanna who has terrible con against a weapon that has more weight than swords and just high speed and yet she doubles so much, heck some enemies in her recruiting chapter are doubled when she uses a javelin (Soldiers primarily but those actually have speed in FE6, slightly though). So High Speed> High Con.

 

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Echidna's con is 9, I wouldn't call that "low", and even if they can double, if they got strength screwed, it wouldn't matter if they attacked twice or not.

 

And even if Shanna can double something, if her strength was terrible, it wouldn't matter, you might say that giving her a stronger lance would help, while that is true, it only can help so much if she's never getting strength, I think other FE games handled the whole weight thing much better. 

Edited by Rose482
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To begin with, many Armored units.

Here's some I may expand later.

Path of Radiance:

* Bastian: Comes in too late and uses knives, but the dude is really cool.

* Largo: A worse Boyd who comes in far too late, but I love his personality. 

*Devdan: Funny and unique character, but average pre promote.

* Tauroneo: Awesome story and some of the best boss quotes in the series, but low base stats for a pre promote and his durability means he can't make use of resolve easily.

Shadow Dragon:

* Darros: No Speed, too low skill, and his defense isn't high enough to make him worth it, but come in he's our only pirate and I like his deal of wanting to turn around his criminal lifestyle.

* Roshea: His speed really stinks, but I love the wolfguard.

* Roger: Unlike New Mystery, his speed is too low, he has little defense, but his whole recruitment makes him too funny not to use.

Sacred Stones:

* Dozla: Happy and hearty man, but one of the worst pre promotes in the game.

*  Ewan and Amelia: Both these trainees come too weak and have too low growths to be really worth the effort, their super trainee forms aren't so good, but its so satisfying to reach.

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1 minute ago, Rose482 said:

Echidna's con is 9, I wouldn't call that "low", and even if they can double, if they got strength screwed, it wouldn't matter if they attacked twice or not.

 

And even if Shanna can double something, if her strength was terrible, it wouldn't matter, you might say that giving her a stronger lance would help, while that is true, it only can help so much if she's never getting strength, I think other FE games handled the whole weight thing much better. 

Same problem with Lyn but oh she is so good, Echidna uses powerful hard hitting axes! She doesnt have a strength problem except probably in her growth.

Also Doubling>Single Attack most of the time, using a Slim Lance on Shanna would show you that.

Her strength growth is 30% and her base is 4 which is lower than Lyn's 40% but let's remeber lances are more powerful than swords which is already a big boon, secondly her strength isn't so bad and it will grow if you use her for more than 3 levels. Even without high strength in FE6 that isn't too impactful, not only are enemies faster but they are also tougher than in FE7 so doing 10x2 damage to an enemy with 30 HP is actually pretty good because almost never will your units outright 1RKO (and even then sometimes Shanna can double with a Silver Lance and annihilate things) so for Shanna;s strength to never growth is unlikely and actually most of the time it will grow slowly but fine enough with the higher might of lances to swords. She also flies, has great rescue capability and 7 mov so even if she doesnt have good combat I can prove 2 things, 1.- She is still useful and 2.- Even with low con she shows that all you need is high speed to double.

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1 hour ago, Critical Sniper said:

Gaiden I would say is a weaker entry alongside FE1 both because they are so clunky. But you're wrong, those 2 games are fun and the weakest entry is FE14 for me, I dont feel like it does anything to make the player enjoy it, it only has dumb difficulty or annoying stuff. FE8 doesn't and FE6 is not as bad as people say.

I would sooner say FE6 is every bit as bad as people say and even worse. Dealing with long, winding maps ad nauseum is not my idea of a fun time, and it's loaded with annoying stuff to boot. FE8 has nothing of note to make me consider it worthy of my time.

 

1 hour ago, Critical Sniper said:

All Fates system does is make it so I only use Iron weapons and hand axes for some enemy phases. I'm never using a steel sword over an Iron one when I'm doing more damage doubling with an Iron Sword and I dont really like it nerfing you, that doesnt make sense, weight does. And the million effects system doesnt make me plan which weapon to use, unless say I use a Nohrian Blade which is an obvious always (Def +3). 

Also this shows how little you know about GBA FE. Almost nobody can use a Steel Sword unimpeded while still unpromoted, with a few exceptions like Lowen, male units will get slowed down by 1-5 points of speed (That -5 speed comes from the absolute trash can that is Guy but everyone else is 1-3) and male units are generally slower so it's balanced too, whilst female units with higher speed may be able to double even with a heavier weapon, just showing how much the "Oh no I get slowed down by 2!" panic attack many people get doesn't matter.

In fact your point goes exactly the other way around lel, female units are mostly better with the con system than males because even if males dont get slowed down their speed is always the same where as a fast female unit doesn't just have a higher chance of doubling even with a weapon that weighs her down but also can equip a weapon that doesnt slow her down (Like an iron Sword) to make use of her full pool of speed, and most of the time Doubling actually beats doing a Single Attack (In fact the only times it's worse is if you're doing 1-5 x 2 damage and even then you also have to consider if it's between Steel and Iron or Silver and Steel), to double some fast enemies whilst a male unit (Like Lowen) can't increase their speed by instead of using a steel sword grabbing an Iron sword.

I actually liked hand axes and javelins being nerfed - it beats them being pretty much the go-to weapon.

I would avoid saying stuff like that unless I wanted to eat a heaping helping of crow. Sure, most male units may not be unimpeded before promotion, but the speed loss they take is mostly negligible relative to female units (Guy is pretty much the only male unit to have crap con over all three GBA games; compare that to the number of female units with respectable con over the course of all of them being countable on one hand). And 2? Really? Try 5, which is what most female units lose from steel weapons (or higher, in the case of lances and axes).

Yeah, because you only look at the good points. For the most part, female units would need a massive speed advantage over their male counterparts to break even, much less come out on top. That ain't something I can always count on happening, needless to say.

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1 minute ago, Shadow Mir said:

I actually liked hand axes and javelins being nerfed - it beats them being pretty much the go-to weapon.

I would avoid saying stuff like that unless I wanted to eat a heaping helping of crow. Sure, most male units may not be unimpeded before promotion, but the speed loss they take is mostly negligible relative to female units (Guy is pretty much the only male unit to have crap con over all three GBA games; compare that to the number of female units with respectable con over the course of all of them being countable on one hand). And 2? Really? Try 5, which is what most female units lose from steel weapons (or higher, in the case of lances and axes).

Yeah, because you only look at the good points. For the most part, female units would need a massive speed advantage over their male counterparts to break even, much less come out on top. That ain't something I can always count on happening, needless to say.

-5 AS is way too big a nerf, they were already innacurate, that could be your nerf and plus all that -5 does is increase your CoD so I'm not using them because they are risky, say wasn;t risky why you didn't like Arthur in FE14? HMMM?

Have you eaten crow or something before or something? Losing 5 speed isn't so bad when you have like 22 speed in those games, it is significant in something like FE14 where enemies scale up a bit better to you.

Not a massive one. Shanna and Isadora already prove you wrong and make you eat those words. You dont need such a massive speed advantage to double more than male units averagely do, actually their more annoying problem is usually their low strength but that's also fixed by just giving them stronger weapons with which they probably still double so who cares, they are balanced and female units come out on top in doubling because they have higher maximum speed.

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1 hour ago, Critical Sniper said:

-5 AS is way too big a nerf, they were already innacurate, that could be your nerf and plus all that -5 does is increase your CoD so I'm not using them because they are risky, say wasn;t risky why you didn't like Arthur in FE14? HMMM?

You sure like comparing apples and oranges, don't you... At least javelins and hand axes still have some use, unlike Arthur, who has no real use outside of being pair up fodder (which I don't count as a use, by the way).

1 hour ago, Critical Sniper said:

Have you eaten crow or something before or something? Losing 5 speed isn't so bad when you have like 22 speed in those games, it is significant in something like FE14 where enemies scale up a bit better to you.

It was a figure of speech (though not one you're familiar with, most likely). At any rate, I'm not so dismissive of a speed reduction on that scale, considering that being weighed down also makes it harder to dodge enemy attacks.

 

1 hour ago, Critical Sniper said:

Not a massive one. Shanna and Isadora already prove you wrong and make you eat those words. You dont need such a massive speed advantage to double more than male units averagely do, actually their more annoying problem is usually their low strength but that's also fixed by just giving them stronger weapons with which they probably still double so who cares, they are balanced and female units come out on top in doubling because they have higher maximum speed.

They're fast, but that's about all they have going for them. Isadora has it especially bad since odds are I've been using at least one of the other cavaliers, who might be comparable to her by the time she's relevant. And let's not delude ourselves into pretending fast male units don't exist. So no, saying it's balanced is still sorely, sadly mistaken.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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16 hours ago, ping said:

They don't. Against lances, an Iron Axe has identical hit and +5 might compared to an Iron sword.
Iron Axe vs. Steel Sword has +15 hit and +2 damage.
Hand Axe vs. Steel Sword has identical hit and +1 damage.
Killer Axe vs. Killing Edge has +5 hit and +4 damage.
Silver Axe vs. Silver Sword has identical hit and +4 damage.

I could have sworn swords had 25% hit advantage against axes, but after checking out, it's only 20, so same hit against lances. 

I mean it does not really matter anyways since aircalibur is also a thing in the game you can rely on to take out the dracos. Lugh with support and being in a thicket is almost invisible against them. 

Gonzales starts to be "useful" in Ilia against the pegasus knights with all their heavy lances which is a point when you fight already second tier units and have trained paladins with support and Dieck who do their job good enough. If enemy soldiers existed longer than till chapter 8, then it would be a lot easier to rise him. 

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Surprised that so many Bastion, I thought he is the less memorable character in Tellius series. He's one of my fav character from Tellius too because of the "wind mage=smart guy" trope. Sadly Soren is just a better mage all around with better support. 

Not sure about Archanea series, it has so many characters in New Mystery that I like (being my first FE game and all) and really RNG determined whether they can be good or not. I dropped Roderick at first and use Luke despite me hating him because he turn out to be better. Then come Athena, who gets outclassed by so many sword units (and later on in Heroes, this woman is victim of powercreep alright).

I love everyone in Awakening and there is hardly bad units in that game as long as you have galeforce or can support with someone that have galeforce.

As for Fates, Arthur and Odin has been mentioned in this thread. Odin seriously get screwed  the most out of the Awakening Trio. His Hoshido reclass option doesn't even grants him niche like the other two does. He is basically a reproduction boy toy you use just to get Ophelia. 

 

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On 2/9/2019 at 11:49 AM, ping said:

Deciding who to give the 2nd Hero Crest is a fairly inconsequential choice. There's a couple units competing for it that can be moderately useful after promoting - Deke, Fir, Gonzales, even Lott - but they're all fairly low-impact at that point in the game, even Deke, who I would still consider the best recipient (assuming that Rutger promoted first). If you ask me, the biggest investment you need in order to promote Gonzo is training him. Deke has absolutely no issue getting to promotion level, if not level 20, before you even get the Crest; Fir, while ever more underleveled, can gain XP easily and quickly against all the axe users; and even Lott, if you're invested in him, should be ready to promote by this point. Meanwhile, Gonzo doesn't have the +10 hit from promotion yet (and no WTA, either), so his hitrates are crummy almost all of the time. There's a reason why quite a few people consider ElphinRoute!Gonzales to be the better version even though his stats don't reflect his higher base level.

While I think that people overhate on poor ol' Gonzales, I still don't consider him good - he's shaky when he joins, both because of his stats and the enemy composition at that point and still has his flaws later (only good against one weapon type, even if it's the predominant one; too fat to be carried around) - but a promoted Gonzales sitting on a peak in chapter 21 while carrying a Killer Axe is a sight to behold.

I guess you have a point, but promoting Gonzales over any of those other than maybe Lot sounds like a flat-out losing trade imho. It doesn't really change anything - he's still as reliable as trying to use Dynamic Punch without No Guard. Compare to Deke getting axes and actually being able to hit regularly with them, Lot getting bows, and Fir getting a massive crit boost (to be fair, Gonzales gets it too, but having high crit is useless if you whiff).

Point taken, but one chapter of glory is rather underwhelming for all the effort I have to devote to someone who's obviously trash tier at best.

Anyway, for the sake of getting back on topic: L'arachel is another one that stands out. She's one of the few standout characters in Sacred Stones, but she comes underleveled and is a healer in a game where healers are pretty time-consuming to raise.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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