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Who is the worst unit, gameplay wise?

Who is the worst unit, gameplay wise?  

58 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is the worst unit? (I'm going to make a fight video with said characters)

    • Micaiah
      4
    • Edward
      1
    • Leonardo
      6
    • Nolan
      1
    • Laura
      2
    • Sothe
      1
    • Ilyana
      1
    • Aran
      2
    • Meg
      16
    • Volug
      1
    • Zihark
      0
    • Tauroneo
      1
    • Jill
      0
    • Fiona
      19
    • Tormod
      2
    • Muarim
      1
    • Vika
      3
    • Nailah
      0
    • Rafiel
      2
    • Elincia
      0
    • Marcia
      1
    • Leanne
      0
    • Nealuchi
      2
    • Haar
      1
    • Nephenee
      0
    • Brom
      2
    • Heather
      2
    • Lucia
      2
    • Mordecai
      2
    • Lethe
      2
    • Geoffrey
      1
    • Kieran
      1
    • Makalov
      1
    • Astrid
      2
    • Devdan
      1
    • Calill
      2
    • Ike
      1
    • Titania
      1
    • Oscar
      1
    • Boyd
      1
    • Rolf
      2
    • Shinon
      1
    • Soren
      1
    • Mist
      3
    • Gatrie
      1
    • Rhys
      1
    • Mia
      0
    • Ranulf
      1
    • Kyza
      4
    • Lyre
      34
    • Reyson
      0
    • Janaff
      2
    • Ulki
      2
    • Sigrun
      1
    • Tanith
      1
    • Naesala
      0
    • Skrimir
      1
    • Sanaki
      2
    • Tibarn
      0
    • Pelleas
      2
    • Stefan
      1
    • Oliver
      2
    • Bastian
      1
    • Volke
      1
    • Renning
      1
    • Caineghis
      0
    • Giffca
      0
    • Ena
      2
    • Kurthnaga
      1
    • Nasir
      1
    • Gareth
      4
    • Lehran
      3


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12 hours ago, Florete said:

You can't seriously be trying to argue that Astrid is better than Ranulf and Volug.

Ranulf, at base, doubles everything for a long time, with enough power to kill or seriously wound the majority of enemies.

And Volug, like, what? Even ignoring part 1, he's easily your strongest non-BK unit in DB part 3. So he takes two turns to get going, big deal? Then you have him for the rest of the map. He doubles literally everything and, iirc, kills all but the strongest Tigers, and that's before he gets S strike.

Volug is actually sick. I put him up with Janaff and Skrimir as non-Formshift Laguz who are actually long-term sustainable. Go ahead and dislike using Laguz all you want, it doesn't make them all bad. A lot of your statements here really just come down to you not liking them, not them actually being bad. Also lol @ suggesting 1600 for Olivi Grass is a problem.

If I may be frank, I consider Astrid a bottom 10 unit. Maybe even a bottom 5 unit. But the fact I'm willing to defend a bottom 10 unit over some of the laguz commonly praised here goes to show that they really crippled laguz in this game. As far as I'm concerned, most non-royal laguz just don't offer enough to make up for their myriad of weaknesses. It doesn't help matters that they're much too slow to improve for my tastes. Even the likes of Ranulf and Volug fail to impress me (though I consider class more to blame in the former's case). As for Olivi Grass, considering you're not exactly swimming in cash for the majority of the game, I feel it's overpriced for what it does.

TL;DR Laguz are hard to work with and most of them offer no meaningful advantages to compensate.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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Volug survives two hits from any enemy in 3-12 - according to the pinned enemy stat list, the tigers reach 41 Atk, which Volug (49 HP, 18 Def) barely survives. I think that's pretty neat. He also doubles enemy cats (who have 20 or 22 AS), which I also find pretty neat. If I'm not mistaken, he even 2HKOs most cats if he reaches S strike (and no, this is not hard to reach before this point of the game). Pretty neat.

All on Hard difficulty, of course.

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46 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

TL;DR Laguz are hard to work with and most of them offer no meaningful advantages to compensate.

On its own, I don't necessarily disagree with this statement. I do, however, disagree with the conclusions you use it to come to. They have disadvantages, but it doesn't mean they are bad. They can still be quite good despite having disadvantages.

47 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

As for Olivi Grass, considering you're not exactly swimming in cash for the majority of the game, I feel it's overpriced for what it does.

Not sure what game you're playing, I've never heard of anyone complaining about 1600 for Olivi Grass before.

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There is technically only one point in the entire game when to buy an olivi grass: base of 1-8 for Volug in 3-6

 

And the DB is not really lacking on money, even after some weapon refines. Meg's fortune skill already surpasses the required money by a lot.

Furthermore there are also two droppable olivi grasses for the DB in part 3, so Volug is fine.

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On 2/14/2019 at 11:25 AM, VideoGamesEpic said:

Will do! I'm actually uploading a similar video tomorrow, and I can show you that as well. You wouldn't have to watch the entirety of tomorrow's video, but it would give you an idea as to what my video would look like.
Would you like me to link you to that video, tomorrow?

Sorry for the late reply, but yeah.

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On 2/16/2019 at 1:46 PM, Florete said:

On its own, I don't necessarily disagree with this statement. I do, however, disagree with the conclusions you use it to come to. They have disadvantages, but it doesn't mean they are bad. They can still be quite good despite having disadvantages.

The thing is, to be frank, their disadvantages are crippling to the point where the only good non-royal laguz are those that are good to the point that their disadvantages don't practically destroy their viability (which is just the hawks and Skrimir, as far as I'm concerned, and they're more the exception than the rule). In the case of almost anyone else, I'm left wondering "what the hell do they offer that justifies micromanaging gauge and dealing with the other weaknesses intrinsic to laguz???"

On 2/16/2019 at 1:46 PM, Florete said:

Not sure what game you're playing, I've never heard of anyone complaining about 1600 for Olivi Grass before.

Well, excuuuuuse me for thinking that 1600 gold has better uses!

Edited by Shadow Mir

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On ‎16‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 7:34 PM, ping said:

Volug survives two hits from any enemy in 3-12 - according to the pinned enemy stat list, the tigers reach 41 Atk, which Volug (49 HP, 18 Def) barely survives. I think that's pretty neat. He also doubles enemy cats (who have 20 or 22 AS), which I also find pretty neat. If I'm not mistaken, he even 2HKOs most cats if he reaches S strike (and no, this is not hard to reach before this point of the game). Pretty neat.

All on Hard difficulty, of course.

3-12 doesn't have any enemy laguz units, though. The only Dawn Brigade Part 3 chapters that do are 3-6 and 3-13.

Also, Cats having 20-22 AS sounds a bit low considering I'm playing on Easy where they have 18 AS.

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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I only play Touhou because of the music. I am not into this genre, but the soundtrack motivated me to try this series. Anyways I do not know the actual theme, must be in one of the game I have not played yet, but the music reminded me on Zun at once, so that explains my guess. 

 

Edit: Figured out it is the theme of the final stage from Touhou 6. I knew it had to be 6 because the soundstyle is similar to the boss. 6 would be my next target after I have completed extra and phantasm mode of 7.

Edited by Necrofantasia

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15 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

3-12 doesn't have any enemy laguz units, though. The only Dawn Brigade Part 3 chapters that do are 3-6 and 3-13.

Also, Cats having 20-22 AS sounds a bit low considering I'm playing on Easy where they have 18 AS.

I meant 3-6, sorry.

But according to @Florete's stat compilation, cats in that chapter are indeed that "slow". For 3-13, the AS is listed as "22.5" or "23", which I assume means "either 22 and 24" with one or t'other being more prevalent (and I'm tagging her in case she remembers if it does ;):) , in which case Volug would need a single Spd proc (which he can get reliably via BEXP - Spd is his 3rd highest growth) to double them. This would also allow him to double Swordmasters in 3-12, although I don't remember how valuable that is.

In any case, Volug is really good in part 3 because without halfshift, he hits some nice benchmarks that few other DB units can reach. Sothe, for example, would need to be Lv.10 to start doubling cats in 3-6 (and Lv.15 to double the ones with 22 AS) and he would have to hit both his HP and Def cap (40 and 20, respectively) to survive two 39-Atk tiger attacks, and unless he supports someone with a +Def affinity (i.e. not Miccy), he will always be 2HKO'ed by the 41-Atk ones. Sure, Laguz gauge sucks, but I find it very much worthwhile to grass up Volug.

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HEY, the video's here.  Any comments?  I've given my feedback via PM.

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nice to see meg killing it as possibly the best worst RD unit and lyre placing, helps make mist's performance feel less bad, at least I'm not a gareth fan, his battles were just painful to watch, miss after miss, and not enough bulk to even take on mist. even the tiger(Mordecai? or Kyza?) could get hits in.

Meg in heroes when?

though to be honest these results are not surprising overall, though rend made lyre do way better than I thought, and miracle just reminds me of better days when it was a worthwhile skill, seeing mist take 3 consecutive fatal blows without dying was so satisfying.

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On ‎13‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 4:30 AM, Necrofantasia said:

Gareth has bloodtide, so automatically not terrible. 

It really doesn't automatically make him "not terrible".

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3 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

It really doesn't automatically make him "not terrible".

Sure, in easy mode - what you are only playing from what I read so far - you do not give a single crap on bloodtide. 

But I did NOT take easy mode into account. 

For oneturning Ashera in normal or hard, he is essantial.

I cannot think of any combo to beat her in one turn without him. 

 

PS: How often do you have to read a topic for quoting one by another, and that even after month(s) ? 

I noticed It in other topics before. 

It goes into double post territory. 

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5 hours ago, Necrofantasia said:

For oneturning Ashera in normal or hard, he is essantial.

I cannot think of any combo to beat her in one turn without him. 

Which the average player won't know how to do, and then Gareth gets ripped to shreds by the spirits.

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I mean if you cannot oneturn Sephiran or Ashera, you want to destroy all the spirits in these chapters which is no problem. And in Sephiran's chapter all the spirits below him are stationary, so he does not have to worry. Also ward woods or how they are called (+10 resistance tiles) can prevent him from getting killed. 

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On 3/22/2019 at 9:39 PM, NinjaMonkey said:

Which the average player won't know how to do, and then Gareth gets ripped to shreds by the spirits.

The average player not knowing how to do it isn't a good justification for him not being "Not automatically terrible" (using like a triple, maybe quintuple(?) negative there but it makes sense). The assertion isn't that Blood Tide makes Gareth great or even good, it's that it stops him from being terrible. Which if players can use effectively is absolutely true. In other words, when he's around Gareth has something he contribute with unlike the other units who are considered terrible.

Edited by Jotari

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