FE4 Fan Special Roundtable/Interview Translation

[garmmy]

Hi! I recently translated the roundtable/interview that was in the FE4 Fan Special book (9784893665805), between Hijiku Tsukamoto, Ken Heuga, and Mamoru Satonaka, with comments by Shouzou Kaga, here:

https://garmtranslations.wordpress.com/2019/02/13/fire-emblem-genealogy-of-the-holy-war-fan-special-roundtable-discussion/

Someone suggested I post about it here too and I almost forgot I had an account here haha.

It was published back in 1996 so a lot of stuff is a bit old news, but hopefully there are still some interesting tidbits in there as well!
Also, feel free to point out if anything sounds weird/mistranslated and I can look into it a bit more; it's been years since I actually played FE4 so I'm a bit rusty on the mechanics and gameplay I think.

[VincentASM]

Thanks a bunch! That must have taken a while ^^

I was meaning to share it on the front page, but we're currently busy with Three Houses stuff. Once things calm down, I'll find a space to plug it.

The bit about mothers and fathers both influencing the kids was interesting. Awakening and Fates does this with hair colours, but it sounds like they wanted completely different appearances.

[Interdimensional Observer]

I haven't played FE4 or 5 (hopefully I will someday).

But I am very very very very very thankful for this! I always appreciate this kind of stuff, and there is SO MUCH GOOD INFORMATION HERE!

 

Let me break it down for those who don't want to read the whole thing.:

• Kaga had no intentions of creating an easy to play game, but did not intend to make FE confusing. FE4 was not going to be Fire Emblem game at first.
• Kaga wanted to showcase Jugdral and its history instead of legends, hence the larger scale in maps. But did not intend to necessarily continue FE in this direction.
• There is no one "heroine" in this game. No character is perfect in character.
• Admits the maps of FE4 look samey and understands the fan criticism compared to how things were in FE3. Says he did this because he didn't think it'd work if different parts of a map, each being so large, were colored different [presumably because realism].
• FE3 was a microlevel journey through the eyes of Marth. FE4 is macrolevel through the eyes of many.
• Admits FE4 is cavalry biased- but states players do have a choice in how they play.
• Because of the large scale, the smaller details on maps and their individual parts had to be sacrificed.
• Thinks the improved (vs. FE3) animations were only a 50 or 60/100, could have done better. Loves the Pegasus Knight crit animation. Likes how weaker magic has shorter animations and stronger magic longer ones.
• The AI is supposed to get smarter with the more Authority Stars the unit's commander has.
• Kaga was the only person insanely into worldbuilding on the development team.
• The Fire Emblem was added later in development, since this game was not at first intended to be a Fire Emblem game. The Fire Emblem thus has little significance. And FE4 is a sort of side-story to Archanea.
• Galle's journey to Archanea is one of the only interactions between Jugdral and Archanea. They normally do not.
• An Arvis scene in the opening is supposed to be the tragic end of Chapter 5, but he directly decoupled Arvis in the opening from that scene, so as to leave it open to player interpretation for those who liked Arvis.
• Giving Gold was supposed to be part of a bonds between people theme. Was aware of the issue of Gold giving during development regarding all or nothing, considered adding an input for the amount the player wished, but thought it troublesome for players. Sometimes regrets that choice to not have a quantity selector. He wished he could've included a mechanic for close friends, but didn't.
• Grannvale was based on Germany, Agustria is based on France, Thracia on Spain, Leonster on Italy, Silesse on Scandinavia, Issach on Central Asia. Verdane is "barbarian" like Persia [how dare he say this of the great land of the Achaemenids, Seleucids, Parthians, Sassanids and Safavids!], perhaps "barbarian" as the Greeks saw them when they attacked Greece (a biased perspective).
• DeirdrexSigurd was supposed to have more stages to its development of love between the two, but restrains cut them.
• Sigurd is heavily flawed. Besides his love for Deirdre, he is very naive, even more than Seliph. If he were more competent, the tragedy [of Belhalla or Gen 1 as a whole?] would not have happened.
• Sigurd's chapter (part of the game) was intended to simply foreshadow Seliph's [weird, since most people prefer Gen 1's story it seems].
• Greek and Roman mythos and a lighter tone were used in FEs 1-3, FE4 used Celtic and Norse mythos with a more serious/darker tone. Used the names as inspiration while crafting individual backgrounds and appearances. Wanted to do something of modernized retelling of old myths and legends.
• Forming emotional attachments is not the be-all-end-all of games, hence the great die off at the end of Chapter 5. It also illustrates vividly the weight of losing even a single human life.
• The Tragedy of the Gae Bolg was a legend attempting to show the world's scale and provide a little bit of history. Directly compares somewhat it to Artemis's Curse in Archanea.
• Ethlyn was tomboyish as a child, but marriage toned it down.
• Finn is an orphan like Oifey. Only a page in ranking.
• It is indeed the case that there are supposed to be hundreds of unseen soldiers in reality, not just those you see/play with.
• Eldigan Kaga admits is like Camus. Eldigan is over-conscientious, too straight-laced.
• Ares was created since it was assumed people would be forlorn about not being able to recruit Eldigan.
• Edain was made to be a "heroine-type character", who only sees Sigurd as a friend (Sigurd might not). Every other male sees her romantically, but she isn't one for gushing romance, being rather indifferent to it, and she has her mission of finding Brigid to be more concerned about.
• Kaga likes Brigid and her battle convo with her brother Andrey. (Does this explain Eyvel- favoritism?)
• Kaga admits Arden, Naoise, and Alec are "transparent" and lacking for anything special or backstory. He compares them to Draug, Abel and Cain.
• Finn is stated to be about 34-35 in Gen 2, but Kaga didn't want to age him [as much?] as Oifey. He also admires Ethlyn as an elder sister, this carries over in some way to his relationship with Altena.
• Personally speaking, Kaga says Azelle deeply loves Arvis, but Arvis is so distant, so Azelle is pained being with his brother. Arvis is also "suffocating" to Azelle, which is why he may have went and joined Sigurd. A reason for this feeling might be Arvis's Loptyr blood [why I ask? does the blood emit a passive aura of evil?].
• Sigurd is less perfect than Arvis.
• Lex is even more of an outcast than Azelle from his family.
• Originally, the children made from each pairing depended on both mother and father (not just the mother), but that was beyond the limits of what they could do. Some children [perhaps Lester] were taken from before they did away with this old plan.
• Claud and Silvia were NOT intended to be siblings, the only incestuous marriage is ArvisxDeirdre, and that is why it is cast as being wrong (incest = bad). First cousin marriage is not considered incest in Jugdral.
• Kaga doesn't like the idea of making a totally irredeemably evil female character, but admits some would exist in reality, like Hilda.
• Only Erinys is confirmed to have died among the Gen 1 mothers, only Edain guaranteed to have survived. -But Kaga forgot in the interview about Tailtiu!
• Discrimination is supposed to be a theme of the game. Arvis is NOT a villain, another protagonist from another perspective on the opposite side of Sigurd. He did not know his blood relation with Deidre at first. He needed Deidre to "win" against Sigurd, whom he feared Deidre had had a relationship with.
• Kurth was just invented for backstory, not as a full character.
• Julia was intended to serve the same role as Falchion against Medeus. Julia was not so much fighting her brother as "saving" him by forcing Loptyr out of his body.
• Seliph's personal arc climaxed with the death of Arvis, and the Final Chapter is more an extra addition.
• Fate may have played a role in Arvis's course of actions, but Travant knew what he was doing the entire time and there was no fate involved. He had to die, but the it is up to the player to decide whether he deserves pity. Travant also truly loved Altena as a daughter.
• Kaga though Mercenaries (like Ayra) would be popular due to being generalists without weaknesses.
• Creating female version of units, less so for classes with mounts, was an additional hassle.
• Kaga won't give a definite answer on the Forseti-Lewyn situation and only offers different possibilities.
• States there is no "best couple", but admits each female has about three candidates she can Talk with.
• Another theme of FE4- growth in both stats and character.
• Kaga likes strong female characters, and not just romantically. Determined women with a clear goal in mind- Minerva, Altena, Ayra for examples. Even someone like Edain has strength and is not weak.
• The changing of armor and horse color on promotion actually means new, symbolically more affluent, armor and steeds. Just like buying new weapons.
• Wishes he could trying making fun characters, like a girl who is meek, but becomes intense on the battlefield.
• All those little hidden events are there for fun.
• The Arena enemy Nazarre is not intended to be Navarre, just a fun reference.
• Autobattle orders like in Gaiden were found to be poorly received, hence they weren't in 3 and 4. But Kaga admits maybe FE4 could've used them.
• Kaga did not want to appeal to the fanbase, instead choosing to make FE4 around his desires. But did not try to push his trivial interests too much on the players.

 

That is everything from the lips of Kaga I believe. Again so much information. So much so tantalizing! 

THANK YOU @garmmy!

Edited February 17, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[Jotari]

Wow. This is really cool. There isn't a tonne of new information to speak of, but it's really interesting to hear Kaga talk about the game and his perspective on it. He was clearly very passionate about the series. Shame how things turned out, even though ultimately Fire Emblem has fared fine without him. Hearing the opinions of old school fans twenty years ago is also a great perspective to have.

Among the new info I found most interesting.

*The inspiration behind the different nations. This confirms that neither Isaach nor Leinster were based on Ireland despite the names (though the game overall took inspiration from Irish mythology which was always apparent). Isaach being based on central Asia also solidly confirms that Fire Emblem nations can take inspiration from anywhere without being Hoshido (there was someone at some point saying Fire Emblem countries can only be European inspired despite the clearly Mongol Sacae, citing the Mongols technically did reach Europe). These inspirations aren't massively evident from the aesthetic I think, I wonder if we ever get a remake will they lean more  into them.

*Great to hear the terrible writing around Sigurd Deirdre wasn't an earnest attempt at showing a real relationship.

*Did we know Finn was an orphan? That makes his dedication to Leif so much more heart-rending.

*Kaga changed his comment regarding Levin saying it's not definitely possession like Julius and could in fact be a dragon impersonating him. Levin = Zane confirmed.

*Children were originally meant to be determined based on both parents. I made a thread suggesting this once and people were heavily against the idea.

*Kaga is a fan of Legend of the Galactic Heroes. This is not surprising in the slightest 

*Them accidentally giving the game a lot of female antagonists I find both amusing and interesting. Before that point, as far as I can recall, the only female antagonists you couldn't recruit were Sonya's sisters who had basically no dialogue (the sourceress of fear mountain who's name slips my mind right now was male in the original Gaiden. The original Gaiden also didn't depict it's witches as mindless slaves, in fact Marla and Hestia have a pretty emotional portrait for that era). His comment about finding it more disturbing to kill women I think is quite sexist, but I also reckon a large number of people, even the majority of humans, would actually agree with him on a subconscious level (hell I think if people stormed the building right now with guns I could probably find myself agreeing with his comment subconsciously despite considering myself radically egalitarian in my conscious mind).

Edited February 18, 2019 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

Oh, this is very interesting.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

*Kaga changed his comment regarding Levin saying it's not definitely possession like Julius and could in fact be a dragon impersonating him. Levin = Zane confirmed.

Well, more like, "if he was killed in Gen1 it could be more X, and otherwise it could be more Y". Either way, my own personal opinion on the matter is that regardless, it would be best to still involve Forseti, and not some other other dragon. Though that's just me.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

*Did we know Finn was an orphan? That makes his dedication to Leif so much more heart-rending.

I don't think so. Though I might not be remembering well, I don't think it was ever stated otherwise.

13 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Wishes he could trying making fun characters, like a girl who is meek, but becomes intense on the battlefield.

This makes me think of Noire, now I wonder if someone was reading or remembered the interview when making Awakening's characters and thought (in the mindset it was going to be the final game of the series) to fulfill this for him. Not that I'd know of the cast of the Saga games to know if Kaga ever did it himself.

[Interdimensional Observer]

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

*The inspiration behind the different nations. This confirms that neither Isaach nor Leinster were based on Ireland despite the names (though the game overall took inspiration from Irish mythology which was always apparent). Isaach being based on central Asia also solidly confirms that Fire Emblem nations can take inspiration from anywhere without being Hoshido (there was someone at some point saying Fire Emblem countries can only be European inspired despite the clearly Mongol Sacae, citing the Mongols technically did reach Europe). These inspirations aren't massively evident from the aesthetic I think, I wonder if we ever get a remake will they lean more  into them.

Apparently, Treasure lists Issach's main industry as livestock farming. Makes sense, since Central Asia is associated with nomads, and nomads survive on livestock.

Although Issach has no glorious cavalry units, and Central Asia tends as Sacae shows to be the land of incredible horses and cavalry. Although if I read up on Central Asian history (and I should), I could probably find peoples who weren't mobile tanks on horseflesh. Issach also isn't super-plainsy, but to be fair, Central Asia has plenty of mountain ranges around the vast steppe.

Furthermore, Issach is an adaptation of Central Asia, not the same as it IRL. It's possible they practice transhumance over nomadism. Which if you don't get the difference, transhumance is moving livestock to different locations for pasture at different times of the year, but you don't move the human settlement. With nomadism, you pack up your yurts (to stay in Central Asia talk) and everybody moves from one place to a totally different and distant one. With transhumance, you return to the same house in the same place every day, regardless of whether you're going for spring grass at one place or autumn grass at another. Transhumance is possible in settled countries, Italy for instance had transhumance in the Medieval period.

I am happy too that this provides further argument that IS can do non-Hoshido/Japanese global inspiration for its nations. And I'd actually like Central Asia alongside the East in an FE, on top of Northwest Asia (Europe is a fiction- it exists only culturally and politically, geographically the Urals are ant hills, if that that's the case, I call my house its own continent). Since Central Eurasia is what links Northwest Eurasia and East Eurasia, and is easier to add than having to add Southwest Eurasia, South Eurasia, and Southeast Eurasia to connect to the East. (Although South Eurasia- the land of actual mythological nagas, has a certain appeal to me.)

 

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

*Did we know Finn was an orphan? That makes his dedication to Leif so much more heart-rending.

 

We don't know when or how his parents died, but yeah, this does really help. Since now Finn is an orphan caring for another tragic orphan, whose parents he knew were so wonderful.

Also, it accentuates Janne- Nanna's substitute. Since she was a the little girl of an Nordion soldier who got adopted by a merchant, who was then killed by the Empire when she was 7, and then got adopted by Finn. A double-orphan in a way.

Really, perhaps Finn should open an orphanage. This makes his character more endearing.

 

8 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, more like, "if he was killed in Gen1 it could be more X, and otherwise it could be more Y". Either way, my own personal opinion on the matter is that regardless, it would be best to still involve Forseti, and not some other other dragon. Though that's just me.

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

And it seems to me that Kaga likes this. He does sometimes clamp down, like declaring Silvia and Claude not siblings, and Arvis as a protagonist. But at other times like Forseti-Lewyn leaves things open to interpretation, and he seems to have suggested his interpretation of the Azelle-Arvis relationship is not the only valid one.

Also, the fact he considers the possibly the player would have progressed to Gen 2 with Lewyn killed in gameplay in Gen 1 indicates he did leave open the playstyle of ironman as perfectly normal at the time. Which is further proven by his statement against character bonding as the end-all of gaming (although he clear is bonded to characters himself), the abundance of "replacements" in say Thracia and prior games, and say even the cemetery rewards in Berwick Saga.

[Jotari]

On 2/18/2019 at 5:07 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

Oh, this is very interesting.

Well, more like, "if he was killed in Gen1 it could be more X, and otherwise it could be more Y". Either way, my own personal opinion on the matter is that regardless, it would be best to still involve Forseti, and not some other other dragon. Though that's just me.

I don't think so. Though I might not be remembering well, I don't think it was ever stated otherwise.

This makes me think of Noire, now I wonder if someone was reading or remembered the interview when making Awakening's characters and thought (in the mindset it was going to be the final game of the series) to fulfill this for him. Not that I'd know of the cast of the Saga games to know if Kaga ever did it himself.

I wouldn't actually be surprised if Noire is a hold over from the Kaga era. Three Houses is taking inspiration from an original pitch idea for Genealogy of the Holy War mentioned in an interview which leads me to imagine there's a document on some computer in IS head quarters with a list of random gameplay and character ideas that they add and pull from as inspiration comes and goes. I think it's been said elsewhere that ideas in the Tellius games were pulled from Kaga's repitoire too. Not to mention all the stuff we see in Tear Ring Saga that appeared later in the series one way or another. That a character like Noire could have been sitting on a computer for fifteen years without being used doesn't seem to farfecthed. Then again, two people independently coming up with a split personality gimmick doesn't seem altogether unlikely either.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Jotari

[Eryon]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

 original pitch idea for Genealogy of the Holy War mentioned in an interview

Do you have a link to that pitch? Just curious.

[Interdimensional Observer]

22 minutes ago, Eryon said:

Do you have a link to that pitch? Just curious.

I think he means the squads idea. That tidbit came from the "Making of" Fire Emblem book, which also included stuff on a number of other games- PoR, Binding Blade, Shadow Dragon, and the scrapped Fire Emblem 64 and 2nd Wii games.

https://serenesforest.net/2016/06/20/making-of-fire-emblem-genealogy-of-changes/#more-32331 The relevant part below:

 

One radical idea was for the battle system to incorporate squad-based gameplay. Instead of moving single units on the map, like in typical Fire Emblem games, players would move units in squads of ten. This has direct parallels to the Wars series (also developed by Intelligent Systems), which features 10-men squads.

"If I remember correctly, you would move people in groups of ten in that game. […] You would move a group on the world map, and if you encountered the enemy, a battle would begin. It was going to be a squad-based game. But, in the end, we went back to the “FE” style map and it became the “Holy War” we know."

–Tohru Narihiro from the Making of Fire Emblem

 

 

This was back before Genealogy was made into a Fire Emblem game, back when it went by the name "Holy Sword Elm Kaiser", which was revealed in this article.

[omegaxis1]

I'm genuinely glad that Kaga addressed the Sigurd/Deirdre thing. But ultimately, I love how Kaga is insisting that Arvis is somehow blameless or very least flawed, and is just a victim of fate, when really, no, Arvis wasn't. Kaga is being rather biased by all means. 

Though I am interested in how it's noted that Azelle feels "suffocated" by Arvis because of Loptous. That's rather interesting.

One thing that is absolute BS is Kaga confirming that Arvis was persecuted. He was one of the highest ranks in the nation, and Kaga even stated that Arvis killed people, especially if they talked badly of his mother. And Kaga also trying to paint the case that we're supposed to question persecution as one of the themes doesn't work when you don't show us. How do you expect the theme to be carried through if the player cannot see that persecution? 

And confirmed. Kaga approves of Awakening and its characters. You heard it folks!

And it had even Noire, a character Kaga wanted to be made. Whether someone remembered this conversation when making Awakening or if it's a coincidence, it could be either one. I personally feel its a coincidence, as this interview was over 20 years ago, yes? 

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Second, Falchion and the Book of Naga I don't think he is saying are equally powerful in lore. What he is saying is they serve the same role in gameplay- killing the final boss easily.

Third, yeah, Kaga is the founder of the Adamantly Adoring Arvis Absolutely Association, and the real father of Arvis himself of course. You could put him to the stake for that, although I'm sure he likes fire. I gotta admit Arvis being threatened with persecution makes little sense, people in the upper crust can get away with stigmas lower classes can not. Jerusalem during the Crusades had a Christian king who had leprosy- which was societal anathema to all but the saintly. And Arvis had no Loptyr Brand, nor was he able to tell his son's Brand was Loptyr's and not Fjalar's I guess.

Fourth, I think he wants to leave some things closed, like Claud and Silvia's relation to each other, what Arvis is in the narrative (as much as you may, not without reason, disagree with him), but leave other things open, like Forseti-Lewyn. Some definitive narrative answers, some things remain for fan speculation and creativity. Not a bad idea I think.

 

But given how Archanea and Jugdral are during those times, and the enemy being the same type of dragon, it seems likely that Falchion is equal to the Book of Naga. 

Apparently so. XD

I agree that sometimes its best to let the player interpret things on his own. 

[Acacia Sgt]

On the persecution thing, perhaps it wasn't as severe as it sounds, but it was still something. Arvis being in a high ranking position likely means the persecution came from fellow nobles. Perhaps it ties to the fact his Loptyr blood "suffocated" Azelle. Maybe like how FE would do it with the Branded of Tellius, in how they would unnerve the Laguz, and the latter wouldn't always know why they would feel that way when near certain individuals. Then perhaps more or less the same happened there, in which other nobles felt similar things when near Arvis, and then their reactions in response were less than stellar. Thus qualifying as "persecution", if only in the lesser extents of the meaning. Since again, Arvis was a fellow noble. Come to think of it, perhaps this is how Arvis learned he had Loptyr blood in the first place. Once Manfroy approached him and explained it to him why people would act in certain ways around him at times.

Well, ultimately this is all speculation; but it what makes sense to me after reading through the interview.

[omegaxis1]

20 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

On the persecution thing, perhaps it wasn't as severe as it sounds, but it was still something. Arvis being in a high ranking position likely means the persecution came from fellow nobles. Perhaps it ties to the fact his Loptyr blood "suffocated" Azelle. Maybe like how FE would do it with the Branded of Tellius, in how they would unnerve the Laguz, and the latter wouldn't always know why they would feel that way when near certain individuals. Then perhaps more or less the same happened there, in which other nobles felt similar things when near Arvis, and then their reactions in response were less than stellar. Thus qualifying as "persecution", if only in the lesser extents of the meaning. Since again, Arvis was a fellow noble. Come to think of it, perhaps this is how Arvis learned he had Loptyr blood in the first place. Once Manfroy approached him and explained it to him why people would act in certain ways around him at times.

Well, ultimately this is all speculation; but it what makes sense to me after reading through the interview.

 

Except it was already confirmed by Kaga that Arvis was someone that was not tolerant of anyone that crossed him, having killed people. And the persecution of the Loptous cult was VERY severe, as it was mentioned that people connected to Loptous would be burned at the stake. Manfroy even said that if Arvis's lineage being discovered would result in him being burned at the stake too. And here Kaga says that Manfroy explained to Arvis that others have suffered as he did. This really doesn't work. 

Trying to now mitigate this by saying its similar to the Branded is a rather weird curveball to throw at us. 

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Except it was already confirmed by Kaga that Arvis was someone that was not tolerant of anyone that crossed him, having killed people. And the persecution of the Loptous cult was VERY severe, as it was mentioned that people connected to Loptous would be burned at the stake. Manfroy even said that if Arvis's lineage being discovered would result in him being burned at the stake too. And here Kaga says that Manfroy explained to Arvis that others have suffered as he did. This really doesn't work. 

Trying to now mitigate this by saying its similar to the Branded is a rather weird curveball to throw at us. 

Well, my guess is that fellow nobles wouldn't go reach to actually crossing him. Though say, people like servants, low-rank soldiers, or perhaps even higher-ranking ones to even lesser nobles. People who wouldn't really be mourned by many (at least among the high nobility) if they were gone. Then again, I don't remember if it was stated the exact social positions of the people who did crossed him. Or if Arvis killing them wasn't or was public knowledge. Probably not, since I don't remember if that was brought up in-game or not.

As I said, that why I linked it to the Branded situation. They wouldn't know, but they still felt something, even if they woudn't know exactly why. Point is, that may be why something still happened. Though again, not big enough, at least among the upper nobility; but Arvis still resented it to a degree. Maybe to him it didn't mattered how much, just the fact it happened at all, hence why it's said he too suffered; by how much didn't mattered. Though considering how quickly he was to engineer the disposal of people like Lombard or Reptor, perhaps he still planned to have the last laugh on those he couldn't touch directly. Though again, my speculation.

Not now, this was an interview from 1996. Perhaps it was another thing picked up for future games; but either way, this "Loptyr blood emits some kind of aura" long predates the Branded thing.

[BrightBow]

It's great to have concrete confirmation that the enemy AI does indeed depend on the commander. I wonder if it's directly tied to leadership stars though or if it's just correlation.

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

As I said, that why I linked it to the Branded situation. They wouldn't know, but they still felt something, even if they woudn't know exactly why. Point is, that may be why something still happened. Though again, not big enough, at least among the upper nobility; but Arvis still resented it to a degree. Maybe to him it didn't mattered how much, just the fact it happened at all, hence why it's said he too suffered; by how much didn't mattered. Though considering how quickly he was to engineer the disposal of people like Lombard or Reptor, perhaps he still planned to have the last laugh on those he couldn't touch directly. Though again, my speculation.

Not now, this was an interview from 1996. Perhaps it was another thing picked up for future games; but either way, this "Loptyr blood emits some kind of aura" long predates the Branded thing.

I was thinking along similar lines, but actually had Awakening in mind. IIRC, when Robin and Tiki first meet, Tiki notices something about Robin being similar to them, a foreshadowing of the reveal of their Grimahood. 

Now I'm not sure if being Grima is the exact same as having a different dragon's blood, and Tiki is a very particular sensor. Tiki is the pureblood daughter of the strongest dragon ever, who happens to be used to having their power sealed and unsealed. And, neither Chrom nor Lucina- Brand bearers, not Nowi nor Panne- other shapeshifters, nor anyone else, notice Robin's true nature. Only the dragoniest dragon of all. Although I've heard some pure speculation Tharja's attraction to Robin might be because she is Grimleal (although it seems only nominally) and thus desires Grima. 

With this in mind, would it be possible for Azelle, who has less dragon blood than Chrom, Lucina, and certainly Tiki, to sense a malevolent aura from his half-brother's Minor Loptyr? Maybe. IRRC, Muarim says not everyone picks up on the Branded even among Laguz- those who don't just mimic the reaction of those who do, and Vika doesn't know what to think of Micaiah right away.

Maybe it is possible for mortals to detect Minor Loptyr, but not everyone will. How many? I don't know. I don't see it being only 1 in 100, somewhere between 1 in 5 and 1 in 2 sounds realistic-ish to me. And this would be true regardless of a person having Holy Blood or not.

 

Certainly, I don't think Azelle knew the truth about Arvis, nor did anyone else at Grannvalian court. Although Azelle's issues with Arvis's love and this supposed "persecution" are two separate issues. And I speak only on the Azelle on here.

 

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

And confirmed. Kaga approves of Awakening and its characters. You heard it folks!

I don't think this means he would've signed off on everything. Hot Springs and Swimsuit DLC? IDK. ?

 

Certainly he was not totally opposed to fun while he worked on FE. What else can you call the first moment with this "cutie" in Mystery Book 2?

 And remember, Xane was likely going to be in Emblem Saga before Nintendo sued him.

Even if he didn't write it, he had to approve of the scene as director of the game.

 

And while I'm expecting it to be serious on the whole, I wonder if Kaga has interjected any humor or humorous characters into that Vestaria Saga he made. (And on that note- WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE TRANSLATION? Timetable please!)

 

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

I agree that sometimes its best to let the player interpret things on his own. 

Yeah, I actually had some fun writing up my own fanfict ideas of Forseti possession. Not so much concerning Lewyn, as Ced the Crusader, who was a blank canvas I painted freely upon.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[omegaxis1]

You know, something that occurred to me in the interview, apart from the Arvis things, is that Kaga basically called Sigurd stupid. That if he had been smarter, this tragedy could have been averted. ANd this is when talking about his relationship with Deirdre.

This more or less feels like Kaga confirming that had Sigurd not taken Deirdre out of Spirit Forest, she would have been safe.

[Jotari]

Regarding Alvis's persecution, even if there's no active person, doesn't mean there's no persecution. Compare to a character in such a time period that's gay. They have a secret, something they've been raised to believe is inherently sinful and wicked, yet it is a part of them and that can never change that about themselves. They can lead a normal life by simply keeping it a secret, but there will always be a Sword of Damocles hanging over their head with the knowledge that if it ever does get out he'll be killed for it. There's also the matter of his family situation. Those people he killed were the people who I insulted his mother for having an affair and abandoning her family. This is obviously a very personal matter to him and it is something people do know and have slighted him for. Even if we don't see Alvis get persecuted much (because honestly we don't actually see him much in the first gen at all) it's very clear from his actions and dialogue that these things have influenced him and that he wants to construct a world without persecution of any kind.

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

You know, something that occurred to me in the interview, apart from the Arvis things, is that Kaga basically called Sigurd stupid. That if he had been smarter, this tragedy could have been averted. ANd this is when talking about his relationship with Deirdre.

This more or less feels like Kaga confirming that had Sigurd not taken Deirdre out of Spirit Forest, she would have been safe.

I don't really agree with Kaga here. Sigurd's naivety is the same that almost anyone that isn't prophetic or rampently paranoid would have in his situation. All of the things that came to bite him where the result of events far beyond his scope on the other side of the continent involving people he barely knew.  He simply didn't have the knowledge that multiple high nobles were committing treason or that the chick he fell in love with was distant spawn of a dragon demon. I dont think anyone could have succeeded any better than Sigurd  did in his place. The deck was heavily stacked against him. The only thing he could potentially have been naieve about was allowing Shannon to live, but that turned out to be one of his best decisions in the long run (granted it did give Reptor more ammo to brand him a traitor, but I reckon that would have happened anyway given they were just as easily able to accuse Byron and Ring).

Edited February 20, 2019 by Jotari

[Lewyn]

@Interdimensional Observer Thanks for the notice, I loved this interview.  Visionary, genius, true artist.  There is something very special and it shows in his games, it seems more like the vision of a single person than the work of a team.  That doesn't mean everything is perfect, but it seems there were a lot of struggles with the limitations of the time in terms of technology, making these complex big strategy games and stories with all the deadlines had to be incredibly tough.  Yes and his brilliant ideas were drawn from for future games, I think Fire emblem has gone on well without him but I don't think it ever has been the same.  

Sigurd/Dierdre love at first sight has oft been criticized, nice to see him say that they wanted to expand this considerably.  Enemy AI related to commander is neat, being based on real world countries too.  All the maps in fact form a cohesive whole like individual pieces of a puzzle, such a grand vision I don't think any other FE does this.  They create maps of different areas and stuff but don't try to connect everything, obviously this limits his creativity for each individual map but it is more than worth it.  

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Regarding Alvis's persecution, even if there's no active person, doesn't mean there's no persecution. Compare to a character in such a time period that's gay. They have a secret, something they've been raised to believe is inherently sinful and wicked, yet it is a part of them and that can never change that about themselves. They can lead a normal life by simply keeping it a secret, but there will always be a Sword of Damocles hanging over their head with the knowledge that if it ever does get out he'll be killed for it. There's also the matter of his family situation. Those people he killed were the people who I insulted his mother for having an affair and abandoning her family. This is obviously a very personal matter to him and it is something people do know and have slighted him for. Even if we don't see Alvis get persecuted much (because honestly we don't actually see him much in the first gen at all) it's very clear from his actions and dialogue that these things have influenced him and that he wants to construct a world without persecution of any kind.

1

The issue with the persecution here is that this is a kind of persecution that isn't of the Loptous persecution, which is the burning at the stake. Hell, Manfroy even said that Arvis's lineage being discovered would result in that. Also, Kaga says that Azelle felt that suffocation, but no one else around Arvis ever mentioned that feeling. Not only that but how would Arvis even KNOW that he has Loptous blood in him? Only Major Blood holders bear a mark of the dragon, not Minor Blood. Arvis holds the mark of Fjala. And Manfroy claiming taht others have suffered like Arvis makes no sense when anyone else would be burned at the stake. 

By all means, Arvis was not in any position where he would have in any way been persecuted. Hell, he's well respected and was even supported by Kurth in secret. 

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I don't really agree with Kaga here. Sigurd's naivety is the same that almost anyone that isn't prophetic or rampently paranoid would have in his situation. All of the things that came to bite him where the result of events far beyond his scope on the other side of the continent involving people he barely knew.  He simply didn't have the knowledge that multiple high nobles were committing treason or that the chick he fell in love with was distant spawn of a dragon demon. The only thing he could potentially have been naieve about was allowing Shannon to live, but that turned out to be one of his best decisions in the long run (granted it did give Reptor more ammo to brand him a traitor, but I reckon that would have happened anyway given they were just as easily able to accuse Byron and Ring).

Except didn't Deirdre tell Sigurd that she has Loptous blood within her? And Sigurd just insisted that he loves her and he will protect her? In the end, he took her out of the protection of the Spirit Forest and the other Maerists, which ultimately allowed Manfroy to find her that much quicker. 

Also, Sigurd is unaware and unknowledgeable about several things, having to be told about the state of affairs for various others repeatedly. If anything, rather than uphold the duties of a noble and be knowledgable about the situation and the people around him, including other nobles, Sigurd just does his own thing. So I think Kaga might have a point about how Sigurd is very naive.

[Jotari]

15 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

@Interdimensional Observer Thanks for the notice, I loved this interview.  Visionary, genius, true artist.  There is something very special and it shows in his games, it seems more like the vision of a single person than the work of a team.  That doesn't mean everything is perfect, but it seems there were a lot of struggles with the limitations of the time in terms of technology, making these complex big strategy games and stories with all the deadlines had to be incredibly tough.  Yes and his brilliant ideas were drawn from for future games, I think Fire emblem has gone on well without him but I don't think it ever has been the same.  

Sigurd/Dierdre love at first sight has oft been criticized, nice to see him say that they wanted to expand this considerably.  Enemy AI related to commander is neat, being based on real world countries too.  All the maps in fact form a cohesive whole like individual pieces of a puzzle, such a grand vision I don't think any other FE does this.  They create maps of different areas and stuff but don't try to connect everything, obviously this limits his creativity for each individual map but it is more than worth it.  

I tried to repeat the patch the maps together project for the Archanea games and it actually sort of worked, though not nearly as well as Jugdral.

https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/67208-looking-for-an-archanea-map-with-chapter-locations/&do=findComment&comment=4608311

8 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

The issue with the persecution here is that this is a kind of persecution that isn't of the Loptous persecution, which is the burning at the stake. Hell, Manfroy even said that Arvis's lineage being discovered would result in that. Also, Kaga says that Azelle felt that suffocation, but no one else around Arvis ever mentioned that feeling. Not only that but how would Arvis even KNOW that he has Loptous blood in him? Only Major Blood holders bear a mark of the dragon, not Minor Blood. Arvis holds the mark of Fjala. And Manfroy claiming taht others have suffered like Arvis makes no sense when anyone else would be burned at the stake. 

By all means, Arvis was not in any position where he would have in any way been persecuted. Hell, he's well respected and was even supported by Kurth in secret. 

Except didn't Deirdre tell Sigurd that she has Loptous blood within her? And Sigurd just insisted that he loves her and he will protect her? In the end, he took her out of the protection of the Spirit Forest and the other Maerists, which ultimately allowed Manfroy to find her that much quicker. 

Also, Sigurd is unaware and unknowledgeable about several things, having to be told about the state of affairs for various others repeatedly. If anything, rather than uphold the duties of a noble and be knowledgable about the situation and the people around him, including other nobles, Sigurd just does his own thing. So I think Kaga might have a point about how Sigurd is very naive.

You're missing my point. Even if Alvis didn't have people chucking stones at him throughout his childhood, he's keenly aware of what it's like for people to treat you differently based on things beyond your control.

Regarding Sigurd, if you were in his position, what would you have done differently? Declared war on your homeland in Chapter 2? Burned Deirdre at the stake like he would have been expected to? The loot sect knew Cigyun existed and were actively looking for her with people in that area. If Sigurd managed to find her by accident then I'm sure they would have eventually on purpose. He probably kept her out of their hands for longer by taking her into his army.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

The issue with the persecution here is that this is a kind of persecution that isn't of the Loptous persecution, which is the burning at the stake. Hell, Manfroy even said that Arvis's lineage being discovered would result in that. Also, Kaga says that Azelle felt that suffocation, but no one else around Arvis ever mentioned that feeling. Not only that but how would Arvis even KNOW that he has Loptous blood in him? Only Major Blood holders bear a mark of the dragon, not Minor Blood. Arvis holds the mark of Fjala. And Manfroy claiming taht others have suffered like Arvis makes no sense when anyone else would be burned at the stake. 

By all means, Arvis was not in any position where he would have in any way been persecuted. Hell, he's well respected and was even supported by Kurth in secret. 

Except didn't Deirdre tell Sigurd that she has Loptous blood within her? And Sigurd just insisted that he loves her and he will protect her? In the end, he took her out of the protection of the Spirit Forest and the other Maerists, which ultimately allowed Manfroy to find her that much quicker. 

Also, Sigurd is unaware and unknowledgeable about several things, having to be told about the state of affairs for various others repeatedly. If anything, rather than uphold the duties of a noble and be knowledgable about the situation and the people around him, including other nobles, Sigurd just does his own thing. So I think Kaga might have a point about how Sigurd is very naive.

Persecutions comes in many shapes and forms. Just because Arvis's wasn't of the same kind or degree, doesn't mean it doesn't count.

She only tells him if Sandima died before recruiting her. Which isn't something that would always happen.

To be fair on Sigurd, Dierdre would've eventually be found. Manfroy already knew she was somewhere in Verdane... and heck, Dierdre is first seen in Mapha Castle, as she was imprisoned with Edain in there. She already leaves the forest on her own violition. Unless she only was away from the village before being captured. If anything, Sigurd taking her out might've delayed her being discovered, all things considered.

[Interdimensional Observer]

21 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Even if we don't see Alvis get persecuted much (because honestly we don't actually see him much in the first gen at all) it's very clear from his actions and dialogue that these things have influenced him and that he wants to construct a world without persecution of any kind.

Fair points. A short monologue for Arvis would help here actually, a recounting of this topic, perhaps in the form of a Memory Prism like SoV. A similar monologue/Prism for Aida would resolve how Saias came to be. How did Arvis commit the cardinal sin of his father? Was his cold heart seeking warmth? Was it lust? I don't know, tell me IS.

And on a slight tangent, Memory Prisms seem to have been done first by Shin Megami Tensei. The GBA ports of I & II had "Visionary Items", which offer plot/world/character bits not found elsewhere in the game, like the MC's mom just before she got eaten and replaced, and a mythologized account of Taira no Masakado rallying in rebellion.

 

9 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Not only that but how would Arvis even KNOW that he has Loptous blood in him?

This could indeed be in need of correction. Not much, a "Mother told me she was sorry for cursing me with her blood in the middle of the night. And then she hugged me and said she would always love me, tears on her on her face in the darkness I could see. That was the last I ever saw of her, she hurried out of my bedroom in the middle of the night. Father was away with a paramour, the wife of an Earl I think. I could never tell her I blamed her not, not for anything could I.". That would do. Arvis could possibly later piece together on his own "cursed blood" meant Loptyr.

 

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

She only tells him if Sandima died before recruiting her. Which isn't something that would always happen.

Although there is this:

Man:
“That might be a tad difficult. You see, the villagers of the Spirit Forest do not involve themselves with the outside world. Moreover, that girl you’re so fond of is strictly forbidden from associating with men. The villagers believe a great catastrophe will befall us if that were ever violated. I’ll get right to the point, Sigurd. Resign yourself of that girl.”

Sigurd is not totally wrong to cast it off as just superstition though. Not totally right either.

[omegaxis1]

18 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You're missing my point. Even if Alvis didn't have people chucking stones at him throughout his childhood, he's keenly aware of what it's like for people to treat you differently based on things beyond your control.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Persecutions comes in many shapes and forms. Just because Arvis's wasn't of the same kind or degree, doesn't mean it doesn't count.

1

And you're missing my point. Arvis is already a noble and of high order. Yes, he would get treated differently by default. He's forced to take the head of the house when he was a kid. But nothing about how he's treated would make sense because of his Loptous blood. And certainly not in the same way that Kaga is claiming that other Loptous blood people would be treated. 

18 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Regarding Sigurd, if you were in his position, what would you have done differently? Declared war on your homeland in Chapter 2?

You seemed to have missed my point. Sigurd lacking info about many information that every chapter someone has to explain to him, it shows a massive amount of ignorance on his part. He's hardly involved in the politics despite being of noble house. This kind of ignorance is bad for a noble and lead one into trouble. Sigurd was trying to defend his home and friends, but ultimately, he ended up ultimately being an invader, basically making the situation worse for everyone else. If he was more understanding of his position, he would have taken better steps to avoid crossing other nations like that.

It's easy to say to jump in and protect people you care about, but for a noble that has to also consider themselves into the politics, that's a stupid move to make.

13 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

To be fair on Sigurd, Dierdre would've eventually be found. Manfroy already knew she was somewhere in Verdane... and heck, Dierdre is first seen in Mapha Castle, as she was imprisoned with Edain in there. She already leaves the forest on her own violition. Unless she only was away from the village before being captured. If anything, Sigurd taking her out might've delayed her being discovered, all things considered.

Not quite. When Manfroy talked with Sandima, they hadn't made any progress in finding Deirdre. Furthermore, had Sigurd left Deirdre alone, she would be safe in the forest, because Sandima would have already been taken care of by Sigurd and his forces, thus halting the search for her. Taking her out of the forest only left Manfroy to just keep track of Sigurd's army, which is by all means easy to do.

6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

This could indeed be in need of correction. Not much, a "Mother told me she was sorry for cursing me with her blood in the middle of the night. And then she hugged me and said she would always love me, tears on her on her face in the darkness I could see. That was the last I ever saw of her, she hurried out of my bedroom in the middle of the night. Father was away with a paramour, the wife of an Earl I think. I could never tell her I blamed her not, not for anything could I.". That would do. Arvis could possibly later piece together on his own "cursed blood" meant Loptyr.

 

That would indeed be a good way. Arvis getting a hint helps a lot, especially when Manfroy comes and gives the last bit of info to him. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by omegaxis1

[Acacia Sgt]

11 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

 

And you're missing my point. Arvis is already a noble and of high order. Yes, he would get treated differently by default. He's forced to take the head of the house when he was a kid. But nothing about how he's treated would make sense because of his Loptous blood. And certainly not in the same way that Kaga is claiming that other Loptous blood people would be treated. 

Not quite. When Manfroy talked with Sandima, they hadn't made any progress in finding Deirdre. Furthermore, had Sigurd left Deirdre alone, she would be safe in the forest, because Sandima would have already been taken care of by Sigurd and his forces, thus halting the search for her. Taking her out of the forest only left Manfroy to just keep track of Sigurd's army, which is by all means easy to do.

As I mentioned before, it can't just have been Azelle who sensed the Loptyr blood. If that is a source of different treatment towards him, if only for a while, then that's something. Even if Arvis wouldn't know at first, it would still be there. Kaga doesn't exactly claim he suffered the exact same way (unless I'm interpreting it wrong), just that there was some form of persecution. But it's something Arvis would fear would happen to him, if it became known.

Manfroy does say:

Manfroy:
“Well, how about the Loputian blood link? Have you located Cigyun’s daughter yet?”

He wouldn't ask Sandima this if they didn't knew she was somewhere in Verdane, where Sandima is stationed. And if a random man could tell Sigurd about the village... well, it was really only a matter of time. Doesn't matter if Sandima died. Manfroy would just send someone else or himself. And maybe he did, all things considered, but Dierdre was gone. Also, apparently, he didn't thought to keep tabs on Sigurd. Because when he shows up to capture her:

Manfroy:
“At last… the daughter of Cigyun.”

This sounds he only just learned where she was, and warped in. If he could just warp in and take her, then why wait? Really, his only lead was Verdane. Once Dierdre left, practically a little over a year happened before Dierdre got captured. There had to have been plenty of opportunities to kidnap her, yet it only happen during Chapter 3. Her leaving Verdane foiled his plans, if only momentarily.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

56 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

 

And you're missing my point. Arvis is already a noble and of high order. Yes, he would get treated differently by default. He's forced to take the head of the house when he was a kid. But nothing about how he's treated would make sense because of his Loptous blood. And certainly not in the same way that Kaga is claiming that other Loptous blood people would be treated. 

You seemed to have missed my point. Sigurd lacking info about many information that every chapter someone has to explain to him, it shows a massive amount of ignorance on his part. He's hardly involved in the politics despite being of noble house. This kind of ignorance is bad for a noble and lead one into trouble. Sigurd was trying to defend his home and friends, but ultimately, he ended up ultimately being an invader, basically making the situation worse for everyone else. If he was more understanding of his position, he would have taken better steps to avoid crossing other nations like that.

It's easy to say to jump in and protect people you care about, but for a noble that has to also consider themselves into the politics, that's a stupid move to make.

Not quite. When Manfroy talked with Sandima, they hadn't made any progress in finding Deirdre. Furthermore, had Sigurd left Deirdre alone, she would be safe in the forest, because Sandima would have already been taken care of by Sigurd and his forces, thus halting the search for her. Taking her out of the forest only left Manfroy to just keep track of Sigurd's army, which is by all means easy to do.

That would indeed be a good way. Arvis getting a hint helps a lot, especially when Manfroy comes and gives the last bit of info to him. 

I do understand what your saying. Your saying Alvis got treated well because of his noble heritage.  No dispute there. If you're saying Alvis got treated well because if his noble heritage, therefore it's out of character for him. To want to build a world of equality, then yes, I do dispute that because Alvis has suffered because of his blood and the actions of his parents.

Sigurd actions, through the first three chapters he learns that

-Theres an evil church that wants to ressurect the lopt empire.

-Theres a girl related to the empire of old.

-Prince Kurth was assassinated by someone.

-Agustria is posed to invade Grandbell.

Things he does not know.

-How the sect intends to re-establish the empire.

-What role Deirdre plays in it.

-Who killed Prince Kurth

Things he can do.

-Try to protect Grandvale from Agustria while the bulk of its army is out east. Which is precisely what he does. If Sigurd has any flaw it's that he's just too damn good at war.

There is no action that Sigurd can take to avoid the way things turned out without it being insane. He's involved in a separate conflict that he has direct orders to involve himself in (and people in danger there that he wants to protect) while all the action happens in a different country. And he does try to gather information from Grandbell (it's how he discovers the Alvis parents thing) but it's not like he has a preestablished spy network under his control.

46 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

 

This sounds he only just learned where she was, and warped in. If he could just warp in and take her, then why wait? Really, his only lead was Verdane. Once Dierdre left, practically a little over a year happened before Dierdre got captured. There had to have been plenty of opportunities to kidnap her, yet it only happen during Chapter 3. Her leaving Verdane foiled his plans, if only momentarily.

I agree with this. Manfroy has absolutely no need to wait to capture Deirdre. Finding her is the top priority for him as getting Alvis and Deirdre to procreate is the most vital and most difficult step in his plan. Manfroy either didn't know Sigurd had her, or he was unable to capture her until then thanks to Sigurd's protection.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Jotari