So About Byleths Father, Jeralt...

[vanguard333]

Is it just me, or have the post-Fates FE games been tacking on superficial elements of Path of Radiance's story to make their stories seem better? Think about it:

• Shadows of Valentia tacked on a societal class conflict subplot/theme where the protagonist's stance on the issue is essentially, "I don't care what class you are". Does that sound familiar to anyone?

Now, we have it that the protagonist's mom is deceased and their dad is the brown-haired leader of a mercenary company who used to be part of an order of knights. What does that sound like?

[Mylady]

3 hours ago, Guest Meow said:

So we get a new view of Byleth's father now. Opinions? Is he still doomed to die? He's going to rejoin the knights...will he become an enemy of Byleth? Which Emblem game was it where someone told the other that Mercenaries are bound to eventually fight old allies on the field, all of them? I wouldn't be surprised. 

I like to believe Jeralt won't die but his storyline seems too similar to Ike's father. Probably they won't copy paste the subplot and this time the father will stay alive 

[TheDreamReturns]

On 4/26/2019 at 10:36 AM, vanguard333 said:

Is it just me, or have the post-Fates FE games been tacking on superficial elements of Path of Radiance's story to make their stories seem better? Think about it:

• Shadows of Valentia tacked on a societal class conflict subplot/theme where the protagonist's stance on the issue is essentially, "I don't care what class you are". Does that sound familiar to anyone?

Now, we have it that the protagonist's mom is deceased and their dad is the brown-haired leader of a mercenary company who used to be part of an order of knights. What does that sound like?

Newer FE titles have a habit of bringing in elements of past titles but completely missing the point of how and why they worked in the first place. Fates brought back the capture mechanic but it can only be used to recruit units, can only be used by two characters, the only units worth capturing are the boss units, and unlike in Thracia it serves zero narrative purpose. In Echoes, Thracia's fatigue mechanic returned, only now save for the final post-game dungeon it's basically ineffective and only really serves as a minor inconvenience otherwise.

Sometimes they put actual thought into a game's design, other times they opt for lazy callbacks with the mentality of "it worked before so let's do it again".

[vanguard333]

56 minutes ago, TheDreamReturns said:

Newer FE titles have a habit of bringing in elements of past titles but completely missing the point of how and why they worked in the first place. Fates brought back the capture mechanic but it can only be used to recruit units, can only be used by two characters, the only units worth capturing are the boss units, and unlike in Thracia it serves zero narrative purpose. In Echoes, Thracia's fatigue mechanic returned, only now save for the final post-game dungeon it's basically ineffective and only really serves as a minor inconvenience otherwise.

Sometimes they put actual thought into a game's design, other times they opt for lazy callbacks with the mentality of "it worked before so let's do it again".

I figured that the capture mechanic was just another example of the design philosophy of Fates seeming to be, "Throw it all in! If a gameplay component pops into your head, put it in! We need to see what the fans want and don't want, so throw it in!" 

I agree about the fatigue mechanic in Echoes though; that was just inconvenient. 

Still; that's all gameplay stuff. I'm talking about recycling story and characters. Usually that's done through recycling character archetypes but keeping the characters sufficiently different (usually), and most of those archetypes date back to Marth's game. Yet here, both post-Fates FE games have recycled story elements from Path of Radiance. 

My theory is that, after Fates, they thought, "Hm... central complaint from fans outside Japan seems to be that the story's rubbish. Hm... Path of Radiance seems to be the one with the story Western fans most like, so lets insert stuff from that game's story."

[TheDreamReturns]

3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Still; that's all gameplay stuff. I'm talking about recycling story and characters. Usually that's done through recycling character archetypes but keeping the characters sufficiently different (usually), and most of those archetypes date back to Marth's game. Yet here, both post-Fates FE games have recycled story elements from Path of Radiance. 

My theory is that, after Fates, they thought, "Hm... central complaint from fans outside Japan seems to be that the story's rubbish. Hm... Path of Radiance seems to be the one with the story Western fans most like, so lets insert stuff from that game's story."

If that's the case then they only really learned in that there wasn't a customizable blank slate nobody to worship, Echoes still has some leftover jank and my hopes aren't exactly up for Byleth "Herotheworldneeds" Teacher-kun. 

Really if the one's making the big decisions over there were smart we'd have a Path of Radiance remake by now, it's a beginner friendly title with a well known main character and one of the best worlds the series has to offer plus it'd give us Fire Emblem fans a reason to stop hating Fire Emblem ;).

If they're going to use elements from other games, why not just bring those games back to REALLY replicate the success in a way that recognizes what made it successful? They wouldn't even need to write up a new world or anything. IntSys needs better writers, but that ain't exactly a hot take nowadays.

As for my thoughts on Jerry, if I haven't already said anything, I think he's toast. I think he'll be around for a little while and have some plot involvement but will die for the sake of some quick drama. I'm HOPING he'll do something more interesting like join us or betray us but based on both his station and his relationship with our Avatar as well as the whole academy setting, it looks like he'll just have to disappear from the plot somehow and death is the easiest way to make that happen.

[Sasori]

Everything about Geralt screams that he's going to die, but I hope they'll take it in a less generic direction. Getting killed by the enemy was already done perfectly by Greil. If they make him a carbon copy then they'll be having a hard doing anything interesting with him.

Personally I hope that he doesn't die in a Greil kind of way, but that he gets hired by one of the villains instead. Mercenaries are hired soldiers so it would't be out of the question for Jeralt to work for some shady persons and it'd be interesting to see family and bussiness clash together. I highly doubt they will go this direction though.

[vanguard333]

14 hours ago, Sasori said:

Everything about Geralt screams that he's going to die, but I hope they'll take it in a less generic direction. Getting killed by the enemy was already done perfectly by Greil. If they make him a carbon copy then they'll be having a hard doing anything interesting with him.

This. He's similar enough to Greil already; he doesn't need to be killed by a Black Knight expy. 

My guess is that he'll be killed by a random peasant with a pitchfork, and then he'll get his own game trilogy. 

[Mylady]

31 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

This. He's similar enough to Greil already; he doesn't need to be killed by a Black Knight expy. 

My guess is that he'll be killed by a random peasant with a pitchfork, and then he'll get his own game trilogy. 

 Beautiful, but it needs to be a trilogy though?  lol

[vanguard333]

2 minutes ago, Mylady said:

 Beautiful, but it needs to be a trilogy though?  lol

…Do you get the reference? I can't tell from this response.

[Mylady]

3 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

…Do you get the reference? I can't tell from this response.

I think I didn't get the reference lol 

[vanguard333]

2 minutes ago, Mylady said:

I think I didn't get the reference lol 

The Witcher. 

[Mylady]

21 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

The Witcher. 

Oh... /slowpoke you are referencing Geralt?

 

I had no idea he was killed by a random peasant with a pitchfork, so epic lmao

[vanguard333]

1 minute ago, Mylady said:

Oh... /slowpoke you are referencing Geralt?

 

I had no idea he was killed by a random peasant with a pitchfork, so epic lmao

Yes; I'm referencing Geralt.

Yeah; apparently that's how he died in the books (I say apparently because I haven't read the books). I think the games, which take place after the books, explain how he survived his "death". 

[Yexin]

he looks so dead to me

though i can see him being the jagen of the game for a few chapters, and then die

this is his best scenario in my mind

[AsherCrane]

He definitely looks like he'll die. 

 

That said, I hope he ends up with a Mycen type of deal, where he's there, just not with the player for most of it, and then Byleth fights alongside his father near the end. 

 

That said, not holding my breath based on past occurrences. 

[TheDreamReturns]

Maybe Jerry will die fighting the TRUE villain before he can tell anyone who it is or something.

[Enduin]

Knowing now that he was apparently the greatest Knight ever and also seems to rejoin the Church after we become a teacher he's either:

1. There to protect us as he's aware of something shady about the church and will die to protect us when things go south. He'll stay behind in all his awesomeness holding back the hoards of Church soldiers so we can flee from Garreg Mach.
   1. I think even in this scenario he possibly won't be our biological father, but instead came upon us & our Mom when he was a soldier which revealed said shady-ness about the church which made him leave in order to raise/protect us.
2. He's not our dad but just some Church super soldier/zealot that was assigned to raise us until we were an adult and he'll betray us and be a major antagonist/rival of ours that we eventually overcome.

[Shadow Mir]

On 4/27/2019 at 12:04 PM, TheDreamReturns said:

Newer FE titles have a habit of bringing in elements of past titles but completely missing the point of how and why they worked in the first place. Fates brought back the capture mechanic but it can only be used to recruit units, can only be used by two characters, the only units worth capturing are the boss units, and unlike in Thracia it serves zero narrative purpose. In Echoes, Thracia's fatigue mechanic returned, only now save for the final post-game dungeon it's basically ineffective and only really serves as a minor inconvenience otherwise.

I'd say the real problem with capture in Fates is that both of the units who can use it are lackluster at best (Orochi is slow and feeble, and Niles is a weakling). And I'll grant fatigue was mostly a non-factor in SoV, but I really hate Thracia's implementation of it.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[TheDreamReturns]

20 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'd say the real problem with capture in Fates is that both of the units who can use it are lackluster at best (Orochi is slow and feeble, and Niles is a weakling). And I'll grant fatigue was mostly a non-factor in SoV, but I really hate Thracia's implementation of it.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I guess my Niles was just blessed :/

[vanguard333]

6 hours ago, TheDreamReturns said:

Maybe Jerry will die fighting the TRUE villain before he can tell anyone who it is or something.

Maybe he'll unravel the conspiracy a quarter of the way into the story, but on his way to the monastery to only to be confronted by a monster with the power of shapeshifting thanks to the particular crest, and it gets the upper hand in the fight by assuming the shape of Byleth's mother. When Byleth finally finds the shapeshifting monster, they fly into a rage and fight the monster one-on-one, and are kept from killing it by the house leaders simply so that Byleth doesn't get consumed by revenge. 

 

6 hours ago, Enduin said:

He's not our dad but just some Church super soldier/zealot that was assigned to raise us until we were an adult and he'll betray us and be a major antagonist/rival of ours that we eventually overcome.

Maybe he'll shoot Byleth in the back after they spared the life of the supposed main antagonist that had turned out to be a well-intentioned extremist trying to stop the real bad guy. 

[TheDreamReturns]

6 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Maybe he'll unravel the conspiracy a quarter of the way into the story, but on his way to the monastery to only to be confronted by a monster with the power of shapeshifting thanks to the particular crest, and it gets the upper hand in the fight by assuming the shape of Byleth's mother. When Byleth finally finds the shapeshifting monster, they fly into a rage and fight the monster one-on-one, and are kept from killing it by the house leaders simply so that Byleth doesn't get consumed by revenge. 

I know you're joking but if Fire Emblem really started referencing FMA:B it would make my day and the several following weeks.

Edited April 29, 2019 by TheDreamReturns

[Flere210]

5 minutes ago, TheDreamReturns said:

I know you're joking but if Fire Emblem really started referencing FMA:B it would make my day and the several following weeks.

Forde: Am i a joke for you?

Anyway, fire emblem was always very "archetypical" in it's writing, so if a character is so similar than Greil, it's very unlikely that he would be a subversion. However'd like much more if he is the Jeigan.

[Cysx]

10 hours ago, TheDreamReturns said:

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I guess my Niles was just blessed :/

Not necessarily, opinions on the character vary. Many would tell you he's actually a great asset to the team.

Orochi on the other hand...

[PrincessAlyson]

5 hours ago, Cysx said:

Not necessarily, opinions on the character vary. Many would tell you he's actually a great asset to the team.

I'm one of those. My Niles turned out VERY useful. But yes, Orochi is very squishy and I use her as a last resort for capture. Anyway, I'm praying for a subversion of the "Parent dies" trope because it's predictable and overused (just as much as the "Church is always evil" nonsense).

[vanguard333]

9 hours ago, TheDreamReturns said:

I know you're joking but if Fire Emblem really started referencing FMA:B it would make my day and the several following weeks.

Wow; I'm not used to people getting the reference. 

Yeah; as long as the references were reasonably subtle, I would enjoy it a lot as well. Possible references I would enjoy include:

• Two brothers: the older one being a mage, and the younger one being an armor knight.
• A playable fire mage of very high rank in the military, with his right-hand woman being an archer/sniper. 
• The dad actually being alive and turning up halfway through the story as one of the good guys (this one in particular would be a neat idea). 

 

9 hours ago, Flere210 said:

Forde: Am i a joke for you?

Who?