More Female Enemies

[Emperor Hardin]

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Not arguing that point at all, but I would argue that Catalina or someone like her should be dismissed as a minor boss based on the gender or class. They are undeniably a minor boss.

I'm not saying she isn't a minor boss, I'm saying Radiant Dawn didn't make a real effort like Genealogy of the Holy War to have a noticeable female presence in the enemy army.

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Huh, really? I guess Wyrs has just made me associate Curates with being bald 

Unlike the NES original, the DS curate sprite isn't undeniably Wrys.

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I do recall that (and it actually makes a certain degree of sense considering Khaden as a country is more like a university), I just thought that type of unit appeared elsewhere in the games too like when you recapture Archanea in Shadow Dragon. If I'm wrong I'm wrong though (that's why I always preface my comments with I think).

Its ok. For reference, there are no other female enemies in New Mystery outside of the Pegasus Knights in the prologue.

I don't think it made much sense.

For reference, Ellerean is ordering his army to fight the player out of hatred of Merric.  Ellerean's army are all labeled Khadein and are composed of bishops, mages, mercenaries, and clerics.

In the original, after Wendel convinces Ellerean that his actions are wrong, Ellerean's army all stand down and leave the map as Ellerean was ruler of the city and ordered them to stand down.

In New Mystery of the Emblem, Ellerean's army continue attacking and will even immediately attack Ellerean as soon as he comes in range with no explanation given.

Then when the map is completed, Jagen will tell Marth in new dialogue for the remake that they have rescued all the clerics kidnapped by Khadein. Note the kidnapped clerics are mentioned in no other dialogue.

The whole thing makes no sense, the writers should've had Archanea reinforcements come in after the Khadein army stands down similar to Sheena's map or at least labeled the male units, Archanea as oppose to Khadein. As it is, the whole thing makes no sense and also makes it so Ellerean kidnaps clerics now....Guess he's even more like Gharnef then we thought...

 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I'm not saying she isn't a minor boss, I'm saying Radiant Dawn didn't make a real effort like Genealogy of the Holy War to have a noticeable female presence in the enemy army.

Unlike the NES original, the DS curate sprite isn't undeniably Wrys.

Its ok. For reference, there are no other female enemies in New Mystery outside of the Pegasus Knights in the prologue.

I don't think it made much sense.

For reference, Ellerean is ordering his army to fight the player out of hatred of Merric.  Ellerean's army are all labeled Khadein and are composed of bishops, mages, mercenaries, and clerics.

In the original, after Wendel convinces Ellerean that his actions are wrong, Ellerean's army all stand down and leave the map as Ellerean was ruler of the city and ordered them to stand down.

In New Mystery of the Emblem, Ellerean's army continue attacking and will even immediately attack Ellerean as soon as he comes in range with no explanation given.

Then when the map is completed, Jagen will tell Marth in new dialogue for the remake that they have rescued all the clerics kidnapped by Khadein. Note the kidnapped clerics are mentioned in no other dialogue.

The whole thing makes no sense, the writers should've had Archanea reinforcements come in after the Khadein army stands down similar to Sheena's map or at least labeled the male units, Archanea as oppose to Khadein. As it is, the whole thing makes no sense and also makes it so Ellerean kidnaps clerics now....Guess he's even more like Gharnef then we thought...

 

Execution aside, I think the idea that there are people pressed I to service makes sense for Khaden as it also does for Gra. As Khaden is less a nation a more an immigration based city state where anyone who wants to learn magic travels to reside in.

[Tetragrammaton]

Enemy dancer, anyone?

[Jotari]

10 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

Enemy dancer, anyone?

There are enemy dancers in one Chapter of Thracia. Although it's probably the worst designed chapter in the series imo. Surprisingly not because it has enemy dancers.

 

[Emperor Hardin]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

There are enemy dancers in one Chapter of Thracia. Although it's probably the worst designed chapter in the series imo. Surprisingly not because it has enemy dancers.

 

At the very least, enemy dancers show up in the Gustav/Xavier as well and you get no punishment for killing them there either.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Execution aside, I think the idea that there are people pressed I to service makes sense for Khaden as it also does for Gra. As Khaden is less a nation a more an immigration based city state where anyone who wants to learn magic travels to reside in.

Why only the clerics though?

That and I feel Yodel, the FE3/FE12 boss, already got that across.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Emperor Hardin

[Jotari]

6 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

At the very least, enemy dancers show up in the Gustav/Xavier as well and you get no punishment for killing them there either.

Why only the clerics though?

That and I feel Yodel, the FE3/FE12 boss, already got that across.

There is actually a sort of punishment for killing Dancers in Dandelion as it will stop some very late chapter reinforcements from spawning with useful items to steal. Are you sure there's no punishment for killing the Dancers in Xavier's chapter? Because that's already pulling the "don't kill these enemies" schtick to get the Members Card. It would be downright contradictory to early Fire Emblem if you were discouraged from killing the men yet encouraged to kill the dancers (in basically the only game that gives you a non-lethal way of engaging enemies).

The reason it's clerics is because that's the clearest "noncombatant" class that can still provide the enemy with some kind of support. Like that one priest chapter in Path of Radiance. There's still no good reason why it's purely clerics and not clerics + curates though.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Jotari

[Emperor Hardin]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

There is actually a sort of punishment for killing Dancers in Dandelion as it will stop some very late chapter reinforcements from spawning with useful items to steal. Are you sure there's no punishment for killing the Dancers in Xavier's chapter? Because that's already pulling the "don't kill these enemies" schtick to get the Members Card.

The reason it's clerics is because that's the clearest "noncombatant" class that can still provide the enemy with some kind of support. Like that one priest chapter in Path of Radiance. There's still no good reason why it's purely clerics and not clerics + curates though.

I remember that, yes. There is a story reason too as the Dandelion gang is against Grannevale.

Checking FireEmblemWOD and an LP, the enemy Dancers in chapter are not Lenster units, meaning they can be killed with no punishment. Its only the Lenster units you have to spare for the membership card and the Dancers aren't part of that faction.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Emperor Hardin

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I remember that, yes. There is a story reason too as the Dandelion gang is against Grannevale.

Checking FireEmblemWOD and an LP, the enemy Dancers in chapter are not Lenster units, meaning they can be killed with no punishment. Its only the Lenster units you have to spare for the membership card and the Dancers aren't part of that faction.

What are they even doing there? Perne having a haram of Dancers makes sense. Gustaf having some hang around, non sympathetic ones you're free to kill, what's the lore for that? Are they his mistresses or something? Or are they meant to be armoured knights who'd been in the shower when Leif began his attack?  Or are they common thieves with questionable dress sense (and pockets)?

[Emperor Hardin]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

What are they even doing there? Perne having a haram of Dancers makes sense. Gustaf having some hang around, non sympathetic ones you're free to kill, what's the lore for that? Are they his mistresses or something? Or are they meant to be armoured knights who'd been in the shower when Leif began his attack?  Or are they common thieves with questionable dress sense (and pockets)?

They're around the thief units in the chapter and are simply named "dancer", so I don't know. The dancers do actively help the enemy troops including both the thieves and the Freege soldiers though. The thieves might also be under Gustav's employ, they are simply labeled by their class as well.

I forgot to respond to the Khadein thing. In that chapter, you are encouraged to kill the curates and unarmed bishops. It doesn't make sense for Ellerean's soldiers to try to kill him, as he was the one who did the order to fight Marth in the first place. Its like Sheena's Gra soldiers trying to murder her after she joins. Plus why would Ellerean kidnap clerics in the first place? 

[Acacia Sgt]

On the subject of Dandelion... huh, it has a couple enemy female archers, now I look at it again. I don't know if I just don't remember them or just plain didn't knew before...

[Emperor Hardin]

10 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

On the subject of Dandelion... huh, it has a couple enemy female archers, now I look at it again. I don't know if I just don't remember them or just plain didn't knew before...

Yeah, Thracia 776 has some female units sprinkled in on occasion, I just noticed there's an enemy female hero, just like in FE4.

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Yeah, Thracia 776 has some female units sprinkled in on occasion, I just noticed there's an enemy female hero, just like in FE4.

Hah, I was about to post that. Mostly since the chapter that female hero appears, also has a single dancer there.

[Emperor Hardin]

Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

Hah, I was about to post that. Mostly since the chapter that female hero appears, also has a single dancer there.

I did not know that last part about the dancer being there!

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I did not know that last part about the dancer being there!

Yeah, I was looking at the chapter maps in WoD, since I got curious, and saw the dancer. She's near Shannam.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

They're around the thief units in the chapter and are simply named "dancer", so I don't know. The dancers do actively help the enemy troops including both the thieves and the Freege soldiers though. The thieves might also be under Gustav's employ, they are simply labeled by their class as well.

I forgot to respond to the Khadein thing. In that chapter, you are encouraged to kill the curates and unarmed bishops. It doesn't make sense for Ellerean's soldiers to try to kill him, as he was the one who did the order to fight Marth in the first place. Its like Sheena's Gra soldiers trying to murder her after she joins. Plus why would Ellerean kidnap clerics in the first place? 

Kidnapping Clerics might have been designed to play into the larger plot of maidens going missing for Medeus's revival.

[Emperor Hardin]

17 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Kidnapping Clerics might have been designed to play into the larger plot of maidens going missing for Medeus's revival.

Khadein wasn't openly working for Gharnef at that point.

[Jotari]

15 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Khadein wasn't openly working for Gharnef at that point.

Wasn't openly, but doesn't one of the DLC episodes basically blame all of Ellerean's actions on Gharnef? They're cooperating with Archanea at any rate and everyone except the barbarians are secretly working to revive Medeus, wether they know it or not.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Jotari

[Emperor Hardin]

34 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Wasn't openly, but doesn't one of the DLC episodes basically blame all of Ellerean's actions on Gharnef? They're cooperating with Archanea at any rate and everyone except the barbarians are secretly working to revive Medeus, wether they know it or not.

From what I recall, there was a scene where Ellerean hears a whisper of Gharnef telling him to hold onto his hatred. I think that was more spurring Ellerean on, rather then Gharnef controlling him, similar to how he used Michalis's ambition against him.

I don't think the ritual required random clerics, only the specific noblewomen.

[Jotari]

29 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

From what I recall, there was a scene where Ellerean hears a whisper of Gharnef telling him to hold onto his hatred. I think that was more spurring Ellerean on, rather then Gharnef controlling him, similar to how he used Michalis's ambition against him.

I don't think the ritual required random clerics, only the specific noblewomen.

They probably knew they needed a specific type of person for the sacrifice, so Elleran getting an order to round up all his staff talented young women to find the specific type they need makes sense. Especially if we assume the people that are studying magic are likely to be nobels from across the world.

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Actually, it's a Rout, so you have to kill her. It looks like a Defend, but nope, it's a Rout.

Catalena might have been better off actually had she and Yuma, the boss of Micaiah's first Part 4, battle swapped places. Since Catalena being a Falcoknight would've had to have been in the Holy Guard, and therefore Sanaki would have been acquainted with her personally. Tanith and Sigrun too of course. It'd make for some good pre-battle chatter and boss convos. Although Ike's deadpan response when fighting her with him is kinda funny as is.

Coming to think of it, Ike encounters Oliver on his route too, which would have been good to play off of with Sanaki. Instead of swapping the bosses, Sanaki should have just gone with Ike. Not like they actually do anything between her and Micaiah.

[Interdimensional Observer]

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Instead of swapping the bosses, Sanaki should have just gone with Ike. Not like they actually do anything between her and Micaiah.

The point of Sanaki going with Micaiah is to make her feel insecure and then have her confront those insecurities.

If they had added even one more battle to Part 4, they could have had Micaiah and Sanaki have that talk Sanaki wanted, but couldn't bring herself to have due to her lack of confidence. It would've helped Micaiah as well with her Epilogue revelation's reveal, which lacked the time it needed.

 

5 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

From what I recall, there was a scene where Ellerean hears a whisper of Gharnef telling him to hold onto his hatred. I think that was more spurring Ellerean on, rather then Gharnef controlling him, similar to how he used Michalis's ambition against him.

 

To be precise:

Spoiler

Garnef enters as an illusion

Garnef: 
...Comrades...? Mere fiction...

Elrean: 
Wha!? Who's there...!?

Garnef: 
...Don't let yourself be deceived. Everyone else is an enemy trying to trick you... Envy, hatred... That's the source of your power... Just as it is mine...

Elrean: 
You... Don't tell me you're...

Garnef: 
Heh heh heh...

Garnef leaves

Elrean: 
Disappeared... huh...? Damn... Is it because of the battle...? My vision feels hazy... Was that... an illusion? Or was it... Envy... Hatred... That's... my... Merric... I...

 

 

The last line sounds potentially like brainwashing I could see one thinking, but it could just be him hesitating to believe Gharnef's words. He might not acknowledge Merric as a friend, but he doesn't necessarily really hate him either.

 

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

Kidnapping Clerics might have been designed to play into the larger plot of maidens going missing for Medeus's revival.

Makes me wonder if upon recapturing Yumina, Lang would have been told "none of your pedophilia/rapist stuff with her, hand her over to this dark robed dude".  Partly I wish he just killed her were she to be captured and not escape, since besides trauma he'd inflict on her, it'd mean we'd have to bring Jubelo to the final battle.

 

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

Especially if we assume the people that are studying magic are likely to be nobels from across the world.

Well if look at who we have in Archanea using magic:

• Wrys- humble old man.
• Wendell- old man with status in Khadein.
• Boah- old man of Pales's court.
• Merric- Altean noble.
• Linde- daughter of Gotoh's nicer apprentice who spent much time in Pales.
• Frost- old man of a family.
• Gotoh- really old Manakete man.
• Malicia- commoner trained by Lena, with an unhealthy Marth liking why? and later becomes who-knows-what.
• Jubelo- royalty.
• Yumina- royalty.
• Maria- royalty.
• Nyna- royalty.
• Elice- royalty.
• Lena- nobility so worthy Michalis considered wedding her.
• Arlen- origins unknown. Given he thinks Merric might have gotten Excalibur from Wendell due to being an Altean noble, he probably himself came from lesser origins.
• Etzel- origins unknown.
• Katarina- assassin.

We don't know how Wendell and Miloah began their lives, nor Boah. Beyond them, if we look only at characters pre-Archanea Chronicles, Malicia, Arlen, Wrys are the only three without any current or prior known high societal status.

Not to say non-noble mages and healers largely don't exist. From Wrys, I'd expect a Curate to be present in most villages, and Clerics to also be somewhat plentiful if families choose to send daughters to a convent.

Mages I do think would be very rare outside of nobility/royalty though. Clerics and Curates heal people, which is always needed even in peacetime. It is possible to be a scholar without using magic Tomes, which are useful only in war. Staffs are a necessity, Tomes are a luxury.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The point of Sanaki going with Micaiah is to make her feel insecure and then have her confront those insecurities.

If they had added even one more battle to Part 4, they could have had Micaiah and Sanaki have that talk Sanaki wanted, but couldn't bring herself to have due to her lack of confidence. It would've helped Micaiah as well with her Epilogue revelation's reveal, which lacked the time it needed.

Yeah, I suppose that's something of an arc. But that could have been accomplished just as easy in other ways, like Sanaki doubting herself in part 3 over the whole coup thing or  just reflecting on how dependent she is on Ike in part 4 (before the whole stinger of you're nobody comes from Lekain). Sanaki doubting herself didn't necessarily depend on her being paired with Micaiah (though it does make sense). Of course Micaiah's first chapter is such filler they easily could have had them swap places and met Oliver either.

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Of course Micaiah's first chapter is such filler they easily could have had them swap places and met Oliver either.

I know this is distracting from the main topic at hand, but I think Ike's first is the real filler. Micaiah's is the first battle of Part 4 and serves as an introduction to your new enemy, Ike's is a redundant introduction to the same enemies with a Kurthnaga chat that isn't so needed either. And Micaiah could've had him in her group since she met him back in Part 1.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I know this is distracting from the main topic at hand, but I think Ike's first is the real filler. Micaiah's is the first battle of Part 4 and serves as an introduction to your new enemy, Ike's is a redundant introduction to the same enemies with a Kurthnaga chat that isn't so needed either. And Micaiah could've had him in her group since she met him back in Part 1.

I don't disagree. Ike's second chapter isn't much better either. I don't object to Oliver being in the game...but it really wasn't called for. And picking up Tormod and his gang should have happened about fifteen chapters earlier.