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Martin

General Opinion of Knights

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On 2019-03-03 at 11:21 PM, Emperor Hardin said:

Here are the images I wanted you to judge.

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They're from the TearRing Saga games.

Hm... Interesting designs. 

For the first one, the knight is wearing the segmented upper leg armour that I mentioned. That's cool. The pauldrons look interesting and they look like he'd still be able to move his arms. It's hard to tell, but the helmet does seem to look like a barbute; a historical Late-Medieval helmet similar to those Ancient Greek helmets, and the heater shield is a good idea as it would help prevent blows from maces or war hammers. The only thing I'm not a fan of is the lack of armour on the upper arm, but that's a relatively minor thing. 

For the second one, I wish the artist had picked a different colour for the cloth because it currently looks the exact same as the metal. I can't tell if those flaps around the waist are metal or cloth. If cloth, keep them but recolour them. If plate, get rid of the front flap (or at least shorten it so that it doesn't look like it's compensating for something). Also, those weird things sticking out in front of the pauldrons just look silly and should be removed. And the pauldrons should be more segmented so that he can actually raise his arms. Other than that, I really like the design overall.

For the third one, where's his helmet? Other than that; it's pretty good overall, though it does look like he wouldn't be able to raise his arms without his pauldrons cutting his head off. I think the pauldrons should be more segmented, rather than one big solid piece that can't be rotated. Sort of like this: 

Spoiler

Related imageRelated imageImage result for 16th century plate armor

 

What do you think of my judgements/suggestions?

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Not sure anyone has brought it up before, but I support the Hector approach to movement. That is to say standard infantry movement as a Knight, but no movement increase on promotion. Mostly it's only Knights who suck while Generals are actually decent because they've had time to snowball their stats. 

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On 4/13/2019 at 1:21 AM, Jotari said:

Not sure anyone has brought it up before, but I support the Hector approach to movement. That is to say standard infantry movement as a Knight, but no movement increase on promotion. Mostly it's only Knights who suck while Generals are actually decent because they've had time to snowball their stats. 

I guess when it comes down to it, many if not all of us agree that this is a good step in a more balanced direction. 

Now that I think about it, they already trade both spd and res for some more dfs. There's also the armor slaying weapons which exists. That by itself should be more than enough to balance the extra defense. Adding a movement penalty burdens them with more limits than advantages. 

 

@vanguard333

And that's another thing that baffles me about knights. You see, in most FE games, the cavaliers and sometimes other units are wearing armor as well. Fates's version depicts them with the type of armor you displayed in your post. So I guess armored knights generically are supposed to be hella bulky to actually be considered such in the FE verse, which I personally don't like. I'm of favor to those you showed, but then what would differentiate a great knight from a paladin?

 

Design wise, I think SoV depicted them pretty nicely. 

Edited by Martin

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58 minutes ago, Martin said:

And that's another thing that baffles me about knights. You see, in most FE games, the cavaliers and sometimes other units are wearing armor as well. Fates's version depicts them with the type of armor you displayed in your post. So I guess armored knights generically are supposed to be hella bulky to actually be considered such in the FE verse, which I personally don't like. I'm of favor to those you showed, but then what would differentiate a great knight from a paladin?

 

Design wise, I think SoV depicted them pretty nicely. 

I'm more than fine with oversized fantasy armour in FE for armour knights, so long as it is done with plenty of thought put into it in terms of, "Can this person still move? Are there any obvious gaps in this armour? Does it look cool?" In that regard, most knights in FE look okay, with only Awakening and Fates knights looking outright silly. 

Echoes armour does look pretty good overall. though it has issues: the hip armour at the sides, and the chestplates go too far down (except maybe the baron chestplates). 

Edited by vanguard333

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On 4/9/2019 at 6:02 AM, vanguard333 said:

Hm... Interesting designs. 

For the first one, the knight is wearing the segmented upper leg armour that I mentioned. That's cool. The pauldrons look interesting and they look like he'd still be able to move his arms. It's hard to tell, but the helmet does seem to look like a barbute; a historical Late-Medieval helmet similar to those Ancient Greek helmets, and the heater shield is a good idea as it would help prevent blows from maces or war hammers. The only thing I'm not a fan of is the lack of armour on the upper arm, but that's a relatively minor thing. 

For the second one, I wish the artist had picked a different colour for the cloth because it currently looks the exact same as the metal. I can't tell if those flaps around the waist are metal or cloth. If cloth, keep them but recolour them. If plate, get rid of the front flap (or at least shorten it so that it doesn't look like it's compensating for something). Also, those weird things sticking out in front of the pauldrons just look silly and should be removed. And the pauldrons should be more segmented so that he can actually raise his arms. Other than that, I really like the design overall.

For the third one, where's his helmet? Other than that; it's pretty good overall, though it does look like he wouldn't be able to raise his arms without his pauldrons cutting his head off. I think the pauldrons should be more segmented, rather than one big solid piece that can't be rotated. Sort of like this: 

  Reveal hidden contents

Related imageRelated imageImage result for 16th century plate armor

 

What do you think of my judgements/suggestions?

I didn't get this until now, so I'll respond this moment.

I think the flaps on the kilt are metal?

The third one is Marcel, a character with the guardian class which only a few characters even use. Guardian is really weird, but basically its technically not an armored unit, though this really only effects terrain. Outside of that Guardian looks and acts like an Armor Knight.

Spoiler

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Another angle on the TS Armor Knight from the mounted variant(Iron Knight). You can't see his full leg armor in this frame, but its there.

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Funfact the prior picture was actually also an Iron Knight, just dismounted, Armor Knight for once don't wear helmets in TRS!

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TS General. Their arms and legs have armor as well as a cape.

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Berwick Guardian A generic Berwick Guardian, its just like the artwork in sprite form. The class moves and animates like Armor Knights, IE: Slow heavy steps forward.

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Berwick Generals look super authoritative. From what can be seen under their robes, they are wearing armored gauntlets around their hands as well as armor on their legs and armor boots. They look a lot like Guardian. A similar version of General shows up in the latest episode of Vestaria Saga.

As for the WoW Armor, Nay.

Out of the real armor I prefer the bottom left.

10 hours ago, Martin said:

@vanguard333

Alright so. The most important part of this conversion. 

Capes: yay or nay??? 

If the capes are for Generals or Barons, yes! Always gotta look important for the troops and capes give that regal look of authority.

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8 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I didn't get this until now, so I'll respond this moment.

I think the flaps on the kilt are metal?

The third one is Marcel, a character with the guardian class which only a few characters even use. Guardian is really weird, but basically its technically not an armored unit, though this really only effects terrain. Outside of that Guardian looks and acts like an Armor Knight.

  Hide contents

latest?cb=20151117043530

Another angle on the TS Armor Knight from the mounted variant(Iron Knight). You can't see his full leg armor in this frame, but its there.

latest?cb=20150910151148

Funfact the prior picture was actually also an Iron Knight, just dismounted, Armor Knight for once don't wear helmets in TRS!

latest?cb=20150910074322

TS General. Their arms and legs have armor as well as a cape.

latest?cb=20190303021411

Berwick Guardian A generic Berwick Guardian, its just like the artwork in sprite form. The class moves and animates like Armor Knights, IE: Slow heavy steps forward.

latest?cb=20190117003356

Berwick Generals look super authoritative. From what can be seen under their robes, they are wearing armored gauntlets around their hands as well as armor on their legs and armor boots. They look a lot like Guardian. A similar version of General shows up in the latest episode of Vestaria Saga.

As for the WoW Armor, Nay.

Out of the real armor I prefer the bottom left.

If the capes are for Generals or Barons, yes! Always gotta look important for the troops and capes give that regal look of authority.

Regarding capes on promoted knights, it kind of makes sense when you consider how the feudal system of Medieval Europe worked.

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4 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

Regarding capes on promoted knights, it kind of makes sense when you consider how the feudal system of Medieval Europe worked.

Yeah, thats what I mean. The capes show status.

Spoiler

FESK_General.png

 

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The best knights are the ones in games where their low movement can be overcome with the aid of allies (FE6-10, 13/14) and have good units in the class. Unfortunately the overlap between this is Oswin and maybe Effie.

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