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I find Fates has funny builds but is an unfun game


mangasdeouf
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Hi,

Each time I see my cartridge, I think of funny builds to play, fun runs etc. But each time, I'm reminded ninjas' bullshit, all post-combat damage, one roll hit chance, flying squads with bows and naginatas or axes and tomes, rally def being mandatory to use anyone not called Xander or Teddy Bear, slow as fck exp leading to incomplete build for 75% of the playthrough, shitty farming DLC for high level units (if you don't have paragon don't even bother...) so you still struggle to reach level 15 (even level 5 promoted is a headache). I'd like to at least fight ennemies without 12+ def/res in a DLC worth real money, and without seals (OMG these skills just shouldn't exist, they're the paragon of bad design: high stats ennemies more numerous than your troops and sending your stats down a giant pit!).

Imagine -4 seals in TSS the game would be barely playable for most of the cast, prepromotes would be largely weaker since they lack dodge and def or res and many of them have weapon weaknesses, be it bow, horse or armor). I think no game should revolve on temporary effect consumables (except pure water which was close to balanced, except non boss magic units were trash so it was still over powered) in order to reach higher stats than they would need in a normal situation just because they get debuffed into oblivion.

So many funny things could be done in Fates but everything is wasted by unpredictable RNG (less predictable than it used to be), cancerous AI, bullshit skills that have nothing to do in such a game (it's OK in equal numbers situations where you don't have to face 3+ ennemies while you're debuffed because there are 4x to 6x more ennemies than units you can bring. For me it's the same playing Fates as playing TSS with a mod where every class has 15 movement and flies. It's stupid, you're overwhelmed very often and bullshit skills make your god units feel like ennemy cat food. Seals shouldn't be applied if the user doesn't even attack or hit the target, this is simply cheap gameplay abuse.

People tell Awakening has too much numbers and difficulty jumps, but Fates nearly doubles ennemy damage or density from one chapter to the next one. Should we point out that your units aren't supposed to have 30+ def in a no grind run around chapter 18 BR (the chapter with the castle, many rooms and chests, 40+ damage generals with one or two that might even have wary fighter to ensure you can't use a reclassed fast axe user or whatever using an anti-armor weapon (or the sword you get on chapter 7 BR). I can't even imagine higher difficulties over the top stats (feels like watching at Awakening Apotheosis ennemy stats). How is it a game for beginners in the franchise? Unless you like abusing phoenix mode, I don't see anything funny in Fates and even then, no risk high reward isn't very funny either but at least you can exp without perma death of losing the unit until the chapter is finished.

The children are funny to build but their recruitment chapters are completely not for the pre-ch11 soft cap. Promoted ennemies when you don't even have one promoted unit in your team except pre-promote with nerfed stats, skills, combinations of ninjas and high damage ennemies are examples of what you can't face when you're not in mid game (and the yato really would need an earlier upgrade because 1st comes so late it's not even funny, yet your sword still has steel sword stats with def and res bane, in Awakening it's OK because you can use high rank weapons without other drawbacks than gold and accuracy, but in Fates you have to loose something important to hit hard without upgraded yato+forge system is grinding hell while the game promotes playing without heavy grinding (less exp when large level difference, encounters cost gold).

What do you feel about it boys and girls?

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1 hour ago, mangasdeouf said:

But each time, I'm reminded ninjas' bullshit, all post-combat damage, one roll hit chance, flying squads with bows and naginatas or axes and tomes, rally def being mandatory to use anyone not called Xander or Teddy Bear, slow as fck exp leading to incomplete build for 75% of the playthrough, shitty farming DLC for high level units (if you don't have paragon don't even bother...) so you still struggle to reach level 15 (even level 5 promoted is a headache).

 

1 hour ago, mangasdeouf said:

So many funny things could be done in Fates but everything is wasted by unpredictable RNG (less predictable than it used to be), cancerous AI, bullshit skills that have nothing to do in such a game (it's OK in equal numbers situations where you don't have to face 3+ ennemies while you're debuffed because there are 4x to 6x more ennemies than units you can bring.


You are welcome to play with us and try Conquest on Hard or Lunatic with 10-units only, no 'backpacks', no Xander or Camilla. If we can do it regularly, then the game may not be as unfair and difficult as you believe. Who knows? You may learn something that you enjoy. Or not. And it is all fine.

I dislike Birthright and Revelations because the maps are a joke when compared to those of Conquest (at least the first fifteen or so chapters.) And having skipped it, Conquest ruined Awakening for me. It feels boring and dull in comparison.

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5 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Hi,

Each time I see my cartridge, I think of funny builds to play, fun runs etc. But each time, I'm reminded ninjas' bullshit, all post-combat damage, one roll hit chance, flying squads with bows and naginatas or axes and tomes, rally def being mandatory to use anyone not called Xander or Teddy Bear, slow as fck exp leading to incomplete build for 75% of the playthrough, shitty farming DLC for high level units (if you don't have paragon don't even bother...) so you still struggle to reach level 15 (even level 5 promoted is a headache). I'd like to at least fight ennemies without 12+ def/res in a DLC worth real money, and without seals (OMG these skills just shouldn't exist, they're the paragon of bad design: high stats ennemies more numerous than your troops and sending your stats down a giant pit!).

Imagine -4 seals in TSS the game would be barely playable for most of the cast, prepromotes would be largely weaker since they lack dodge and def or res and many of them have weapon weaknesses, be it bow, horse or armor). I think no game should revolve on temporary effect consumables (except pure water which was close to balanced, except non boss magic units were trash so it was still over powered) in order to reach higher stats than they would need in a normal situation just because they get debuffed into oblivion.

So many funny things could be done in Fates but everything is wasted by unpredictable RNG (less predictable than it used to be), cancerous AI, bullshit skills that have nothing to do in such a game (it's OK in equal numbers situations where you don't have to face 3+ ennemies while you're debuffed because there are 4x to 6x more ennemies than units you can bring. For me it's the same playing Fates as playing TSS with a mod where every class has 15 movement and flies. It's stupid, you're overwhelmed very often and bullshit skills make your god units feel like ennemy cat food. Seals shouldn't be applied if the user doesn't even attack or hit the target, this is simply cheap gameplay abuse.

People tell Awakening has too much numbers and difficulty jumps, but Fates nearly doubles ennemy damage or density from one chapter to the next one. Should we point out that your units aren't supposed to have 30+ def in a no grind run around chapter 18 BR (the chapter with the castle, many rooms and chests, 40+ damage generals with one or two that might even have wary fighter to ensure you can't use a reclassed fast axe user or whatever using an anti-armor weapon (or the sword you get on chapter 7 BR). I can't even imagine higher difficulties over the top stats (feels like watching at Awakening Apotheosis ennemy stats). How is it a game for beginners in the franchise? Unless you like abusing phoenix mode, I don't see anything funny in Fates and even then, no risk high reward isn't very funny either but at least you can exp without perma death of losing the unit until the chapter is finished.

The children are funny to build but their recruitment chapters are completely not for the pre-ch11 soft cap. Promoted ennemies when you don't even have one promoted unit in your team except pre-promote with nerfed stats, skills, combinations of ninjas and high damage ennemies are examples of what you can't face when you're not in mid game (and the yato really would need an earlier upgrade because 1st comes so late it's not even funny, yet your sword still has steel sword stats with def and res bane, in Awakening it's OK because you can use high rank weapons without other drawbacks than gold and accuracy, but in Fates you have to loose something important to hit hard without upgraded yato+forge system is grinding hell while the game promotes playing without heavy grinding (less exp when large level difference, encounters cost gold).

What do you feel about it boys and girls?

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But seriously, I did every level on Conquest, except the last one on hard, and I was pretty bad at FE at the time. I also regret skipping the Eternal Stairway and missing out on half of Takumi's and Ryoma's final level, which wound up biting me in the ass in the end; but hey, Conquest is kind of insane, especially how your team was  "kidnapped" during that battle  with Garon.

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I understand that you like the game, just the map gimmicks (Rev the chpter where you get Rinkah, Conquest the chapter where you fight Ryoma, or not, with the 50k pots in the way, sometimes you're forced to break negative pots because you have to kill that ennemy hiding behind it, or it's in the easiest path, and the trap staff which can simply get your units killed in 1 turn without other counterplay than not being in range), the shuriken, the totally absurd weapon bonus/debuff stats:

- shuriken free +2 spd while katanas have to loose both def AND res to only get a +1, naginatas having free def and res bonus, maces having even less accuracy if I remember and -1 MT than axes for 5 crit...

- (-5) spd javelins/throwing axes/ranged swords while you already can't double so ennemies double you for free ORKO, silver weapons lowering your stats while iron weapons can be forged for better setup than silver, steel -3 spd is okay since it was even worse in GBA games with female swordies having 5 con and steel swords having 10 wt meaning they lost 5 spd for no good reason, implying you had to use iron or very high price weapons to make up for it, not even talking of steel lance lowering pegasi spd by 8 or 9 depending on their con

- magic being mediocre since physical and magical WT are mixed together, Nosferatu being less than bad with the throwing weapon treatment on inexistant def units with barely any spd already, and so on...and general magic units being awfully bad like they were in GBA games at base, but with even worse GR for the game they're in (it's like copy paste Lute's GR on Nyx but with +10 max stats so she is ridiculous compared with original Lute while the ennemies get insane base stats when promoted or reaching higher levels like ennemy malig knights, ninjas, etc.).

Like I just wrote, magic units don't feel good to play, because their base stats are like 10 points lower than any physical unit. Nyx is Tharja but without any of Tharja's strong points (def, nosferatu being good, knight and sniper reclasses for def and skill and hit +20, acceptable base spd), Owain is Henry but without anything good in Henry (to begin with humor, then mag, lck, def, only his res starts decent+no despoil, samurai is good but base stats kinda suck for CQ, he still get nearly OHKOd by anything not magic as anything else than dread fighter, and no +1 mov access or locktouch or lucky seven, or anything enabling him other than your god unit not killing an ennemy in 1 round and letting him get the exp), Birthright kid has so little skill he won't ever hit anything without serious favorism, Orochi can hit and chunk but her spd is abysmal and without a speed boost/duo she can even get doubled at some point by ennemies not called Slowpoke (Pokémon (tm)). Good luck with any non royal mage, they're hurting you more than they help.

In the end, whenever I tried to play on hard, I ended up lowering the difficulty because it blew my mind up, I'm not the kind to put everything at max difficulty but I'd like to just play a game without having to spend 15 min per chapter to inspect ennemy skills, weapons, stats, map gimmicks and other things, just taking a brief look should be enough (no armor slayer? ok, no sleep staff? ok, no 30 MT ennemies? ok, etc.) instead of looking for darting blow pegasi, trample maligs, poison strike ninjas, counter/countermagic werewolves, several skills on the type of ennemy which should be the weakest (faceless bullshit) which have access to seals, wary fighter, poison strike etc.

Plus, GIMME BACK THIEVES WHO CAN STEAL PLEASE, what's the point of thieves if they're just walking chest/door keys? RD thieves were the best by far without needing free +2 spd, armor killer weapons or stats debuff or poison strike. Hell, they didn't even have +1 move (ok they had more move than mages but if I remember they had the same move as regular foot units once promoted).

Edited by mangasdeouf
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*sigh* I guess I can't expect the OP to post anything with any actual substance...

16 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

I understand that you like the game, just the map gimmicks (Rev the chpter where you get Rinkah, Conquest the chapter where you fight Ryoma, or not, with the 50k pots in the way, sometimes you're forced to break negative pots because you have to kill that ennemy hiding behind it, or it's in the easiest path, and the trap staff which can simply get your units killed in 1 turn without other counterplay than not being in range), the shuriken, the totally absurd weapon bonus/debuff stats:

- shuriken free +2 spd while katanas have to loose both def AND res to only get a +1, naginatas having free def and res bonus, maces having even less accuracy if I remember and -1 MT than axes for 5 crit...

- (-5) spd javelins/throwing axes/ranged swords while you already can't double so ennemies double you for free ORKO, silver weapons lowering your stats while iron weapons can be forged for better setup than silver, steel -3 spd is okay since it was even worse in GBA games with female swordies having 5 con and steel swords having 10 wt meaning they lost 5 spd for no good reason, implying you had to use iron or very high price weapons to make up for it, not even talking of steel lance lowering pegasi spd by 8 or 9 depending on their con

- magic being mediocre since physical and magical WT are mixed together, Nosferatu being less than bad with the throwing weapon treatment on inexistant def units with barely any spd already, and so on...and general magic units being awfully bad like they were in GBA games at base, but with even worse GR for the game they're in (it's like copy paste Lute's GR on Nyx but with +10 max stats so she is ridiculous compared with original Lute while the ennemies get insane base stats when promoted or reaching higher levels like ennemy malig knights, ninjas, etc.).

Like I just wrote, magic units don't feel good to play, because their base stats are like 10 points lower than any physical unit. Nyx is Tharja but without any of Tharja's strong points (def, nosferatu being good, knight and sniper reclasses for def and skill and hit +20, acceptable base spd), Owain is Henry but without anything good in Henry (to begin with humor, then mag, lck, def, only his res starts decent+no despoil, samurai is good but base stats kinda suck for CQ, he still get nearly OHKOd by anything not magic as anything else than dread fighter, and no +1 mov access or locktouch or lucky seven, or anything enabling him other than your god unit not killing an ennemy in 1 round and letting him get the exp), Birthright kid has so little skill he won't ever hit anything without serious favorism, Orochi can hit and chunk but her spd is abysmal and without a speed boost/duo she can even get doubled at some point by ennemies not called Slowpoke (Pokémon (tm)). Good luck with any non royal mage, they're hurting you more than they help.

In the end, whenever I tried to play on hard, I ended up lowering the difficulty because it blew my mind up, I'm not the kind to put everything at max difficulty but I'd like to just play a game without having to spend 15 min per chapter to inspect ennemy skills, weapons, stats, map gimmicks and other things, just taking a brief look should be enough (no armor slayer? ok, no sleep staff? ok, no 30 MT ennemies? ok, etc.) instead of looking for darting blow pegasi, trample maligs, poison strike ninjas, counter/countermagic werewolves, several skills on the type of ennemy which should be the weakest (faceless bullshit) which have access to seals, wary fighter, poison strike etc.

Plus, GIMME BACK THIEVES WHO CAN STEAL PLEASE, what's the point of thieves if they're just walking chest/door keys? RD thieves were the best by far without needing free +2 spd, armor killer weapons or stats debuff or poison strike. Hell, they didn't even have +1 move (ok they had more move than mages but if I remember they had the same move as regular foot units once promoted).

You think that's bad? Try giant maps where anyone who doesn't have a horse generally has a hard time contributing (Genealogy of the Holy War/Binding Blade). Or maps that have awful gimmicks (Binding Blade again). Also, as for the pot map, there's a Dragon Vein that breaks them all.

Which are balanced by being piss weak (the strongest shuriken that doesn't debuff you is only 7 might).

Would you rather have had javelins and hand axes be the go-to ranged weapons again? At least they're still usable, which is more than you can say of the "Great" Club with its lol45hit. Also, forging an iron weapon to the point of equalling a silver is generally impractical unless you have DLC. Especially since you only get one resource from your castle.

Magic (Nosferatu especially) was overpowered in Awakening, of course they'd nerf it. It's called balance. And I don't see why the need to mention Lute when she's in an entirely different game...

Funny thing is, Tharja's reclasses don't do anything for her (why in the name of Anankos would I make her a knight or archer, like, ever???). Anyhow, I do think most units who start off as mages in the game are pretty iffy, to say the least.

That sounds more like a you problem. If you're not willing to adapt and learn, of course you're gonna get your ass handed to you.

Funny thing is, RD thieves aren't even that great (they're stuck with lolknives, and Sothe is stuck waiting until part 4 for his promotion).

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On 3/5/2019 at 12:54 PM, mangasdeouf said:

seals (OMG these skills just shouldn't exist, they're the paragon of bad design: high stats ennemies more numerous than your troops and sending your stats down a giant pit!).

Imagine -4 seals in TSS the game would be barely playable for most of the cast, prepromotes would be largely weaker since they lack dodge and def or res and many of them have weapon weaknesses, be it bow, horse or armor)

The seals have one obvious counterplay that makes them easier to deal with, if the enemy dies they do not trigger. If you aren't one rounding enemies that limits the number of enemies you face on enemy phase and likely makes it survivable, and if you are you don't have to deal with it. On player phase you may have to choose who takes the debuff to chip, and you may have to cycle people through your lines to let them recover, leading to interesting gameplay options and keeps you from relying on just one unit to make it through the game.

 

On 3/5/2019 at 12:54 PM, mangasdeouf said:

I think no game should revolve on temporary effect consumables (except pure water which was close to balanced, except non boss magic units were trash so it was still over powered) in order to reach higher stats than they would need in a normal situation just because they get debuffed into oblivion.

It doesn't all that much, if I weren't limiting myself to not using guard stance on the defense on my 10 man run of Lunatic I doubt I would need them, and as it is I am fairly minimalist in their use, not having bothered until chapter 21, and even then the most I've used a chapter is like 6. They are there to help but aren't needed.

 

On 3/5/2019 at 12:54 PM, mangasdeouf said:

The children are funny to build but their recruitment chapters are completely not for the pre-ch11 soft cap

As someone who got through the Ophelia chapter before chapter 10 I will disagree partially, they are hard but not unbeatable.

 

On 3/5/2019 at 12:54 PM, mangasdeouf said:

there are 4x to 6x more ennemies than units you can bring

That is a bit of an exaggeration, even on the maps with the most enemies to start you don't hit that 4x mark, and you always have ways of limiting the number of enemies that approach to notably less than your starting troop numbers. Even in the 10 unit run you rarely are in a position where you have to face more enemies in a single turn than you have (unless you want to).

 

On 3/6/2019 at 10:27 AM, mangasdeouf said:

the trap staff which can simply get your units killed in 1 turn without other counterplay than not being in range)

I will point out that there are counterplay options for all of the entrap staffs (in Conquest at least). For example the entrap staff room in Bitter intrigue can be entirely defanged by Lunging the one attacking pair-up unit in the room with a handaxe to the other room. In Voice of Paradise you can reach and kill the entrap staff user before it can act fairly easily, and even if you have a miss you can kill the archers (or lunge one out of being able to attack or aid with attack stance) to make it fairly survivable. On Treason you could use the silence staff, or just ignore it as that entire half of the map is entirely optional, or far more common just let it grab your best mage killer and have them go to town. Even on the Empty King the AI has two ways of keeping it fair (even with the inf range), first off they only target people in the main corridor, anyone that even enters the pathways to one of the rooms gets ignored, and second the entrap staff users always act after their allies to always give you a chance to respond.

 

On 3/6/2019 at 10:27 AM, mangasdeouf said:

(-5) spd javelins/throwing axes/ranged swords while you already can't double so ennemies double you for free ORKO,

 

On 3/6/2019 at 10:27 AM, mangasdeouf said:

Nosferatu being less than bad with the throwing weapon treatment

Both of these weapon types were in desperate need of a nerf, and they were. They are both still usable, but they aren't the best weapon to equip in 90% of situations anymore.

 

On 3/6/2019 at 10:27 AM, mangasdeouf said:

Like I just wrote, magic units don't feel good to play, because their base stats are like 10 points lower than any physical unit. Nyx is Tharja but without any of Tharja's strong points (def, nosferatu being good, knight and sniper reclasses for def and skill and hit +20, acceptable base spd), Owain is Henry but without anything good in Henry (to begin with humor, then mag, lck, def, only his res starts decent+no despoil, samurai is good but base stats kinda suck for CQ, he still get nearly OHKOd by anything not magic as anything else than dread fighter, and no +1 mov access or locktouch or lucky seven, or anything enabling him other than your god unit not killing an ennemy in 1 round and letting him get the exp), Birthright kid has so little skill he won't ever hit anything without serious favorism, Orochi can hit and chunk but her spd is abysmal and without a speed boost/duo she can even get doubled at some point by ennemies not called Slowpoke (Pokémon (tm)). Good luck with any non royal mage, they're hurting you more than they help.

Best mage Ophelia would like to be the noted exception to this assessment.

 

 

5 hours ago, joshcja said:

So, this guy tried playing CQ with the Reddit list?

Just out of curiosity which list are you talking about?

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3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Just out of curiosity which list are you talking about?

Reddit’s Conquest Tiering List, I guess. The latest one was ‘discussed’ not long ago in the homonymous thread.

Edited by starburst
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The joke being that actual play with that list is just... agonizing

Yet variants of the Reddit emblem build pop up more or less constantly and are what most folks use on a first (and often only) run

Edited by joshcja
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The big threads on Reddit for Fates are incorrect. They assume the game is played like Awakening, which it's not (especially for conquest). I'm kinda surprised they haven't been archived/flagged. I remember there being a pairing thread, but I'm unsure if it says to always use defensive stance. It's certainly what the comments seem to assume.

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I get pretty frustrated whenever I see people complaining about Conquest’s “bullshit”. Nine times out of ten it reads like somebody who doesn’t like to have to strategize when playing Fire Emblem, which... makes me hope these complaints aren’t making it anywhere near IS’s ears. Those ninjas and seals and xp limits and low max HP are there because they’re supposed to make victory more complicated than training a single powerful, overleveled unit with 1-2 range and throwing them at everything, which you can get away with in lots of other FE games.

Why should you, as a player, expect something that trivially easy to be the best idea the game expects you to come up with?

Take the challenge and have fun with it! Think about why something is dangerous to your party and think about the circumstances it doesn’t happen in! The seals don’t activate when the enemy doesn’t survive the round? Make sure they don’t! Ninjas can’t debuff you if they don’t hit you? Use dual strikes to take them down first on player phase! There are ways around all of these things, you just have to be proactive in building your party and willing to think outside of the box.

I just can’t understand why so many people seem to be actively annoyed that the strategy game they’re playing expects them to strategize.

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1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

I get pretty frustrated whenever I see people complaining about Conquest’s “bullshit”. Nine times out of ten it reads like somebody who doesn’t like to have to strategize when playing Fire Emblem, which... makes me hope these complaints aren’t making it anywhere near IS’s ears. Those ninjas and seals and xp limits and low max HP are there because they’re supposed to make victory more complicated than training a single powerful, overleveled unit with 1-2 range and throwing them at everything, which you can get away with in lots of other FE games.

Why should you, as a player, expect something that trivially easy to be the best idea the game expects you to come up with?

Take the challenge and have fun with it! Think about why something is dangerous to your party and think about the circumstances it doesn’t happen in! The seals don’t activate when the enemy doesn’t survive the round? Make sure they don’t! Ninjas can’t debuff you if they don’t hit you? Use dual strikes to take them down first on player phase! There are ways around all of these things, you just have to be proactive in building your party and willing to think outside of the box.

I just can’t understand why so many people seem to be actively annoyed that the strategy game they’re playing expects them to strategize.

This. Are we so spoiled as gamers that we expect victory to be handed to us on a silver platter? Because I would honestly say that's pretty damn disappointing if it is the case. I mean, it ain't like we're talking about Thracia, whose difficulty is more a result of godawful game design, here.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I get pretty frustrated whenever I see people complaining about Conquest’s “bullshit”. Nine times out of ten it reads like somebody who doesn’t like to have to strategize when playing Fire Emblem, which... makes me hope these complaints aren’t making it anywhere near IS’s ears. Those ninjas and seals and xp limits and low max HP are there because they’re supposed to make victory more complicated than training a single powerful, overleveled unit with 1-2 range and throwing them at everything, which you can get away with in lots of other FE games.

Why should you, as a player, expect something that trivially easy to be the best idea the game expects you to come up with?

Take the challenge and have fun with it! Think about why something is dangerous to your party and think about the circumstances it doesn’t happen in! The seals don’t activate when the enemy doesn’t survive the round? Make sure they don’t! Ninjas can’t debuff you if they don’t hit you? Use dual strikes to take them down first on player phase! There are ways around all of these things, you just have to be proactive in building your party and willing to think outside of the box.

I just can’t understand why so many people seem to be actively annoyed that the strategy game they’re playing expects them to strategize.

Conquest is objectively different than any FE that preceded it. Fe fans are just not really accustomed to deal with skills, and they expect  to be able to use what worked in the other games. And what work in other games is sending a paladin with a javelin. I am 90% sure that most of the complains about fates weapon system are because of the javelin nerf(even if they ruined the system with forging.) In my playtrought i got bodied several times because i just forgot to see wich skills the red units got, i was just too accustomed to not check for skills in fire emblem.

I loved conquest speciphically because the tricky skill made impossible to just solo 6 enemy any Enemy phase with the Jeigan. Xander would be a god in any other fire emblem with those stats and that weapon, but in conquest he is just strong without ever feeling dominating. But i also understand why a different player, expecially one that play in fast and efficient ways and favor rushing with pallies and fliers, would be turned off by a game that punish the strategies that are usually the best for FE.

 

Conquest need the player to enter in a more "RPG" mindset: builds matters, skill synergy matter, picking the right weapon at the right time matter more than before and so on.

Gimmick imo are a good thing because otherwise is difficult to make a game where every battle feel different and there is not a single strategy that work for everything. The reason why Conquest and Thracia are my favorite games is because they force me to approach any chapter differently and if i have to deal with 30 leadership stars and wind tribes, so be it.

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Here’s my two cents, outside of Fates I’ve only played Blazing Sword for GBA. Fates was a HUGE jump and adjustment for me. Some of the biggest gameplay changes I noticed were

A: skills

B: mages being mostly useless 

Anyone whose played Blazing Blade will tell you Canas is the strongest mage in the game, and has to be one of the strongest in the series. give him a book of skill, (which he comes with) speed wings and he’s one of your best units. For the rest of the game. finding how they nerfed Nosferatu made me Butthurt. Also they took the Luna tome further nerfing dark magic. 

C: defensive stance and having to be in defensive stance or adjacent to in order to gain the support bonus 

D: lower growth rates, but there’s more stat increasing items and aptitude helps fix this

I personally love Fates and have NOT played it on classic mode yet. I beat Birthright and Conquest on normal/casual to give me time to adjust to the changes and now I’m beating Revelations on hard/casual. After this I intend to beat them all in the same order on hard/classic and maybe lunatic after that. 

 

So far I find Fates easier but I haven’t tried it in classic mode. Being able to have an infinite amount of supports truly makes the game easier, coming from an old school game you could only max out with 1 other unit. Now you can have 1 character with several different types of units for different situations. I also find that skills make things much easier, I do cheese with it by inheriting from other castles but enemies usually don’t have much for skills. 

 

Also is it just me or are most axe heavy units and lance specialists pretty useless? I’m on my third play through and my only axe specialists are air units. I feel sword specialists and units that use lances and swords are much more practical. 

 

Another thing ive noticed is there is a LOT more air units, and with the bow and tome breaker skills you basically make them invincible.... even Pegasus knights! Pair them with a defensive specialist in the guard position and they can take on anything. 

 

Overall ive dumped over 250 hours into Fates and I plan on putting a lot more in, I feel Fates has a lot more ways to “cheese” thengame but a lot more options to give the game a really high replay value. 

 

For instance i made my Corrin a Great Knight with my boon being skill to trigger skills more often. Magic being my bane. My first two play throughs I went strength and speed. I think I like skill the best because strength and speed can be padded via mess hall. There is no food that adds skill but you can gain +2 to speed and strength every battle if you like. I also feel the only drawback to the Great Knight is its low res but that can be easily fixed. I also paired him with Azura and Nyx on my first two play throughs. I went with Camilla this time and I love it, she’s a very balanced unit with high movement. If you give Corrin boots you have two units that can go 8 spaces, if you go to guard stance they have 9. Give Camilla bowbreaker and both of them can handle any situation. 

So far Camilla has spawned my best Kana, maybe it’s RNG but she’s become VERY balanced, I paired her with Hisame as a sword master and he’s been my favorite for her. I’ve seen on certain forums some players knock Kana but if you keep her as a Noble and her skills stay balanced she doubles as a tank which makes Hisame an even better pairing. 

Anyways I think I’m done rambling for now, but I’d appreciate any comments. I’ve never really talked to anyone about it and I feel my experience is unique because of the 13 year gap between games. So if I’m really wrong on anything or could improve somewhere please tell me! 

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6 hours ago, McFerguson said:

Here’s my two cents, outside of Fates I’ve only played Blazing Sword for GBA. Fates was a HUGE jump and adjustment for me. Some of the biggest gameplay changes I noticed were

A: skills

B: mages being mostly useless 

Anyone whose played Blazing Blade will tell you Canas is the strongest mage in the game, and has to be one of the strongest in the series. give him a book of skill, (which he comes with) speed wings and he’s one of your best units. For the rest of the game. finding how they nerfed Nosferatu made me Butthurt. Also they took the Luna tome further nerfing dark magic. 

C: defensive stance and having to be in defensive stance or adjacent to in order to gain the support bonus 

D: lower growth rates, but there’s more stat increasing items and aptitude helps fix this

I personally love Fates and have NOT played it on classic mode yet. I beat Birthright and Conquest on normal/casual to give me time to adjust to the changes and now I’m beating Revelations on hard/casual. After this I intend to beat them all in the same order on hard/classic and maybe lunatic after that. 

 

So far I find Fates easier but I haven’t tried it in classic mode. Being able to have an infinite amount of supports truly makes the game easier, coming from an old school game you could only max out with 1 other unit. Now you can have 1 character with several different types of units for different situations. I also find that skills make things much easier, I do cheese with it by inheriting from other castles but enemies usually don’t have much for skills. 

 

Also is it just me or are most axe heavy units and lance specialists pretty useless? I’m on my third play through and my only axe specialists are air units. I feel sword specialists and units that use lances and swords are much more practical. 

 

Another thing ive noticed is there is a LOT more air units, and with the bow and tome breaker skills you basically make them invincible.... even Pegasus knights! Pair them with a defensive specialist in the guard position and they can take on anything. 

 

Overall ive dumped over 250 hours into Fates and I plan on putting a lot more in, I feel Fates has a lot more ways to “cheese” thengame but a lot more options to give the game a really high replay value. 

 

For instance i made my Corrin a Great Knight with my boon being skill to trigger skills more often. Magic being my bane. My first two play throughs I went strength and speed. I think I like skill the best because strength and speed can be padded via mess hall. There is no food that adds skill but you can gain +2 to speed and strength every battle if you like. I also feel the only drawback to the Great Knight is its low res but that can be easily fixed. I also paired him with Azura and Nyx on my first two play throughs. I went with Camilla this time and I love it, she’s a very balanced unit with high movement. If you give Corrin boots you have two units that can go 8 spaces, if you go to guard stance they have 9. Give Camilla bowbreaker and both of them can handle any situation. 

So far Camilla has spawned my best Kana, maybe it’s RNG but she’s become VERY balanced, I paired her with Hisame as a sword master and he’s been my favorite for her. I’ve seen on certain forums some players knock Kana but if you keep her as a Noble and her skills stay balanced she doubles as a tank which makes Hisame an even better pairing. 

Anyways I think I’m done rambling for now, but I’d appreciate any comments. I’ve never really talked to anyone about it and I feel my experience is unique because of the 13 year gap between games. So if I’m really wrong on anything or could improve somewhere please tell me! 

First bold: To be fair, after Awakening, which directly preceded Fates, Nosferatu was pretty much in desperate need of a nerf (incidentally, Nosferatu wasn't very good in Blazing Blade because it was too heavy to be practical). Also, the most praised mage in Blazing Blade these days is Pent. Luna is extremely situational - most non-boss enemies have little resistance, meaning you're better off using anything else. What's more, Luna was nerfed to the point of uselessness in Sacred Stones, which is the title that came after Blazing Blade.

Second bold: Wouldn't it be rather premature to judge in your case? Anyhow, considering the general lack of stats Blazing Blade enemies have, I don't see it.

Third bold: I generally don't bother with any axe unit that doesn't ride on wyvern-back - they're just not good. At all. Lance users are better off, though.

Fourth bold: The thing is, dodge-tanking is nowhere near as viable in this game as it was in the GBA games. Also, under normal circumstances, you wouldn't have Bowbreaker or Tomebreaker until near the end of the game because they're level 15 skills.

As for other stuff, I don't really see a skill boon as all that helpful in the grand scheme of things, especially compared to something like an HP boon. Also, the mess hall is unreliable until level 3, and even then it depends on who's running it in the first place.

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We’re tomes infinite in Awakening? I missed out on FE8-13 but back in the day with just a couple stat boosting items (speed wings and ring of constitution) the weight of the dark tomes no longer mattered. But back then you only got like 2 Nosferatu tomes in the whole game so it wasn’t practical to abuse it. 

I just feel they hit it too hard. Wish it was 75% instead of 50% or let it attack twice instead of once. 

On top of that turned Luna into a skill and Eclipse is now the hexing rod. They took a distinct class from the mage triangle and turned it into 1 tome. 

 

Yeah Pent is awesome, puts Erk and Lucious to shame. However,  Nino with Afa’s drops + arena makes her OP AF. But you get her so late in the game that’s something you only do for fun. 

Back on axe users, the only one I leveled up every play through in 7 was Dart. He was always one of my favorite characters, only recruitable land unit that could cross water and mountains. ;) 

Yeah I like having skill/speed boon, strength can be taken care of via forging. Those are the only 3 I’ve tried so far. 

 

Quick question though, if I’m running 3-4 skills with skill % triggers if multiple trigger does the one with the lower rate take precedence...? 

 

 

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7 hours ago, McFerguson said:

We’re tomes infinite in Awakening? I missed out on FE8-13 but back in the day with just a couple stat boosting items (speed wings and ring of constitution) the weight of the dark tomes no longer mattered. But back then you only got like 2 Nosferatu tomes in the whole game so it wasn’t practical to abuse it. 

I just feel they hit it too hard. Wish it was 75% instead of 50% or let it attack twice instead of once. 

No, but you could buy pretty much anything in that game. And the problem with what you suggest is that that's two stat boosters that could have gone to better use than to salvage one impractical tome...

What are you referring to here? Luna or Nosferatu?

7 hours ago, McFerguson said:

On top of that turned Luna into a skill and Eclipse is now the hexing rod. They took a distinct class from the mage triangle and turned it into 1 tome. 

Luna was originally a skill, in fact.

7 hours ago, McFerguson said:

Yeah Pent is awesome, puts Erk and Lucious to shame. However,  Nino with Afa’s drops + arena makes her OP AF. But you get her so late in the game that’s something you only do for fun. 

Except she's unviable in Hector hard mode. And she's obviously more trouble to work with than she's worth (her first map is the godawful gimmickfest that is Night of Farewells). What's more, the aforementioned weakness of FE7 enemies hurts her case. Oh, and one last thing - there's only one arena after you get her, and you only get a limited amount of turns to use it.

7 hours ago, McFerguson said:

Back on axe users, the only one I leveled up every play through in 7 was Dart. He was always one of my favorite characters, only recruitable land unit that could cross water and mountains. ;) 

I never really find him all that great - he has a bad start, and he requires an Ocean Seal to promote (of which there is only one, and it's easy to miss; if you do, you have to buy it from a secret shop... at the cost of 50,000 gold. Oh, and only two secret shops sell it, one of which is missable, and the other isn't until the very end of the game). Also, I honestly fail to see water walking or being able to cross mountain peaks as very useful, especially the former.

7 hours ago, McFerguson said:

Yeah I like having skill/speed boon, strength can be taken care of via forging. Those are the only 3 I’ve tried so far. 

Any reason why? Because most people would tell you that skill is one of the least important stats. And I would agree - it wouldn't be my stat of choice to specialize in. While low strength can be addressed by forging, the forging system in this game is, frankly, tedious and practically unusable without online features..

7 hours ago, McFerguson said:

Quick question though, if I’m running 3-4 skills with skill % triggers if multiple trigger does the one with the lower rate take precedence...? 

I would assume so - in Awakening, it checked for skills with lower activation rates before moving up the pecking order.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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