No Demotions on Beast Banner

[Landmaster]

8 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Thea got boobs, one of the most powerful incentives for Whales 

Hardly for Thea~ She's arguably not even as good as Shanna. Steady Posture was already dropped on Reyson and no one uses Seal Skills (which was also already dropped on Ares)~ There's nothing that makes her less demotable than Lugh who has Gronnserpent and a Rally Up+ Skill~ There's no way he's dropping and she doesn't~

[redlight]

Not to mention Lugh has a brand new skill with the name of Atk Feint.

[Othin]

17 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

My guess is that Miledy was avoided because Jill is just around the corner and they would be too similar in looks and utility. 

 

Hmm. I do expect Jill in the next couple of months, but my guess is that Jill will use axes while Melady would probably use lances, so that would differentiate them. They do have similar appearances, though.

[Vince777]

Maybe she'll have an axe but the PoR Jill is probably the most popular version and that would mean carrying a lance. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

24 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

Hardly for Thea~ She's arguably not even as good as Shanna.

Comparing the two, Thea is a little larger, but not much, if at all. Although this isn't surprising, beyond Brunnya, FE6 is an anti-fanservice game in terms of design. Larum the dancer, a usually seductive class which Silvia and Lene graced threadbare before FE6, is dressed like a nun by the standards of the class. This was intentional I think for the less mature audience and tone FE6 was aiming for.

 

17 minutes ago, Othin said:

Hmm. I do expect Jill in the next couple of months, but my guess is that Jill will use axes while Melady would probably use lances, so that would differentiate them. They do have similar appearances, though.

Canon Axe Fliers are much rarer than canon Lance Fliers, so should they hold off on Haar for Farfetched Reredux, I see her getting Axe. But if with Haar, she gets Lances so he can Axe.

 

Random thought, if Melady must have a personal weapon, can it be named something like "Save-the-Queen"? Or "Princess Guard", since notable about her is her highest loyalty is to Guinevere over Bern, that much is made very clear in her FE6 recruitment.

[Othin]

12 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

Maybe she'll have an axe but the PoR Jill is probably the most popular version and that would mean carrying a lance. 

It doesn't have to mean using a lance. Although, looking back, most of the axe fliers in Heroes favor axes in their original games as well. Except Narcian, who's gotten a lot of complaints for it. Michalis didn't originally use axes, but he favors them in the remakes. So maybe you're right.

[dmurr]

1 hour ago, Othin said:

Looking at the Binding Blade banner, Thea is striking for being by far the least popular unit from any of the three banners. She has her fans, but she hasn't scored well in CYL and she seems kinda redundant next to Shanna. It's a big surprise that she showed up at all - perhaps she was only picked at all because they wanted someone low-profile for a demote. They don't burn much "summon equity" that way.

The Kitsune and Wolfskin banner doesn't have anyone like that. In fact, it was basically another Brave Redux banner: the four banner units and Panne constituted the five highest-scoring units on CYL who hadn't yet been added at the time. So I can understand why they might not have wanted to demote anyone out of such a high-profile selection, more of one than would arise under normal circumstances.

Reyson got more CYL votes than Thea (and any other character on the FE6 banner, for that matter) but he also scored lower than his (non-GHB) counterparts, including the similar Leanne. So perhaps their plan, now, is to try to include a character specifically chosen as demote bait on each banner if they can, and to only skip demotes in circumstances like the Kitsune/Wolfskin banner if there's no viable way to do that? That'd be good if true, since it'd mean this situation would probably not happen often on "normal" banners, and also means more long-term thinking on IS's part: holding onto characters with more summon equity to be 5* exclusive summons later on. (I'm hoping that's why they skipped over Melady as an alternative lance flier, personally.)

If I could "like" this post, I would. All three of the New Heroes banners we've seen this year so far satisfy fan demands, but in different ways.

"Rulers of the Laguz" was to add beast units to the game. "Beyond Darkness" is to finally add more Binding Blade content.

...."Kitsune and Wolfskin" was to add the fan favorite beast units.

 

There's a distinction here. If we'd had beast units all along, we probably would've gotten them split up in some way and all would've stayed 4*.

 

What I'm most interested in is seeing how Nintendo supposedly saying they don't want to make a ton of money off mobile games will impact Heroes. 

[Anacybele]

Wow, that's lame. I really thought we'd see Velouria demote, or both her and Kaden. :/

[Florete]

The only good way to look at this is that it is maybe a sign that they're planning a large-scale demote of 5* units to happen soon. But that's really optimistic and I don't actually believe it.

1 hour ago, Vince777 said:

Maybe she'll have an axe but the PoR Jill is probably the most popular version and that would mean carrying a lance. 

Every Wyvern Rider in Heroes so far has Axes, even Narcian, who canonically never could (the one exception being Valter, who came from a very specific wyvern class that only used lances). With the abundance of lance fliers in the series and Jill really being more associated with axes than lances, I think she'll use axes in Heroes.

[Vince777]

9 minutes ago, Florete said:

and Jill really being more associated with axes than lances, I think she'll use axes in Heroes.

She is more associated with axes? Really? I don't know. I mean she's primarily a lance user in the game she's most prominent in. The one in which she goes through all this personal growth. The one in which she changes her views about the laguz and the one in which she fights her own father. That is the Jill you'll see in Heroes, guaranteed. 

Yeah, she's an axe user in Radiant Dawn but she's also much less developped there and probably loses the spotlight to RD Haar, who is just one of the most dominating unit FE has ever seen.

Maybe you're right but I feel otherwise. Besides, wouldn't it be a selling point to have a first lance wyvern?
 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Vince777

[Florete]

2 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

Besides, wouldn't it be a selling point to have a first lance wyvern?

Even if we didn't have Valter I'd say no. The mount itself isn't a big enough deal in Heroes.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Well, they're certainly powerful units. I was legitimately struggling to clear those Lunatic quests a few days ago. Kaden's daughter whatever her face is just wouldn't take damage. 

They still have my goodwill after demoting Reyson. That was the banner in which I truly expected nobody to drop. And people would have been okay with it. "Well what did you expect, they're all new unit types or dancers, they're all too valuable". 

[Vaximillian]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

"Save-the-Queen"

FFT crossover when

33 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

goodwill

Seriously. Goodwill. Really. Goodwill? Goodwill? Come on.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Vaximillian

[Roflolxp54]

Not the first time a New Heroes banner had 0 demotions upon its ending - Fallen Heroes banner back in 2018 (Robin, Hardin, Celica) saw 0 demotions.

[Tybrosion]

19 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Seriously. Goodwill. Really. Goodwill? Goodwill? Come on.

Hey, some of us here (like or maybe just me) are ridiculously low maintenance. Not even Kaden demoting is unfortunate, but I'm not going to get angry over it though that may be partially because I was fortunate enough to get Kaden while I could. It really isn't worth continually getting pissy over a video game.

[Diovani Bressan]

1 hour ago, Vince777 said:

Besides, wouldn't it be a selling point to have a first lance wyvern?

You mean in a banner, right? Because we already have Valter as a Wyvern Knight who uses a Lance.

1 hour ago, Florete said:

The mount itself isn't a big enough deal in Heroes.

That's right. Mia in a broom wasn't the motive that made me want to summon her.

18 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Not the first time a New Heroes banner had 0 demotions upon its ending - Fallen Heroes banner back in 2018 (Robin, Hardin, Celica) saw 0 demotions.

Well... Fallen Heroes was a special case... two of the three units in the banner were alts and Hardin is a armored unit, with the higher possible BST at that time, with a Distant Counter weapon, and also has a Brazen Skill and Bold Fighter, both skills types previous found in only Seasonal Heroes at the time. There weren't any possibility of demotion in that banner, but Kaden or even Velouria in the 4-Stars Pool woundn't be game breaker. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Diovani Bressan

[Othin]

37 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Not the first time a New Heroes banner had 0 demotions upon its ending - Fallen Heroes banner back in 2018 (Robin, Hardin, Celica) saw 0 demotions.

Fallen Heroes was an alt banner, like Adrift and the CYL winner banners. I remember uncertainty at the time as to whether or not anyone would demote, but it seems the verdict is "alts don't demote".

In addition to those, there's also the Farfetched Heroes and OC banners. Like the alt banners, those had clear reasons for it, and IIRC they were both generally assumed to not be getting any demotes even when the first ones happened.

This is the first New Heroes banner that's had no demotions without a clear reason for it. That makes it more concerning.

[Sasori]

I did't pull too much on the beast banner. Kaden seemed like the obvious demote and he was the one I wanted most. I think that is my biggest problem with this news. They did't give any warnings about something like this even when all prior experience should have pointed out that  people would be assuming demotes.

Its easy to look at fallen heroes and know that there isn't going to be any demotion. All characters with prefs, all alts of mostly popular characters. It just felt like no one would drop down to four stars on there. The beast banner on the other hand had 2 units that looked less special then the other two so it made sense to think at least one of those would demote.

[Legend_of_Zelia]

Here's how I see it.

We got the Seasonals, Special and New Heroes.

Seasonals are predictable, their special alts that only come around when the banner happens or when they actually appear on Legendary/Mythic banners or something else. They don't get demoted.

Special, well this could be the category for the Choose Your Legends heroes, Farfetched, Fallen Heroes, Adrift, etc. These banners feature special alts that don't get demoted. (No matter how many times people want Mikoto to be demoted. I don't know why, besides stats, but I don't think I want her demoted, because of Flash+ and Infantry Pulse skill)

Then it brings us to the banners we want nowadays, New Heroes. These banners were featured long before the Seasonals and Special banners even existed. We want these banners, because we know we will get a clear demote from it. They made an unspoken rule or whatever about these banners, that we will surely get a demote. The fact that the Wolfskin and Kitsune banner didn't have that, makes me concerned about future New Heroes banners and shows their being greedy, dashing peoples hopes still, screwing over their fanbase. 

People want demotes, yet IS ignores that heavily, it's sad really. But their also doing that wrong as well since Thea is practically a 2017 unit. :/ 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Legend_of_Zelia

[Lewyn]

I don't know regardless of how good new hero banner units are, there should at least be one demote.  I was hoping for Velouria, but Kaden would be awesome too (pair with Selkie) unfortunately got none so it is going to be hard to get these units for most people.  Ha and I entertained them demoting both Velouria and Kaden, or even Keaton as well cause of only 4 skills.  Ye of too much faith.

[Usana]

. . . Wow. It is almost like IS is trying to convince me to stop playing. Here I was getting a bit miffed with just how 'demote'able they made Thea and then I learn they demoted nobody on the beasts? I am not angry. Just. Disappointed? Not sure but it definitely hit me in my Heroes intrest organ. Maybe they are trying to kill the game so as to move on to something else?

[Hilda]

4 hours ago, Florete said:

The only good way to look at this is that it is maybe a sign that they're planning a large-scale demote of 5* units to happen soon. But that's really optimistic and I don't actually believe it.

Every Wyvern Rider in Heroes so far has Axes, even Narcian, who canonically never could (the one exception being Valter, who came from a very specific wyvern class that only used lances). With the abundance of lance fliers in the series and Jill really being more associated with axes than lances, I think she'll use axes in Heroes.

even if they do a 5 Star mass demotion... it wont help much if they dont fix the overbloated 4* pool...

[Othin]

1 hour ago, Legend_of_Zelia said:

Here's how I see it.

We got the Seasonals, Special and New Heroes.

Seasonals are predictable, their special alts that only come around when the banner happens or when they actually appear on Legendary/Mythic banners or something else. They don't get demoted.

Special, well this could be the category for the Choose Your Legends heroes, Farfetched, Fallen Heroes, Adrift, etc. These banners feature special alts that don't get demoted. (No matter how many times people want Mikoto to be demoted. I don't know why, besides stats, but I don't think I want her demoted, because of Flash+ and Infantry Pulse skill)

Then it brings us to the banners we want nowadays, New Heroes. These banners were featured long before the Seasonals and Special banners even existed. We want these banners, because we know we will get a clear demote from it. They made an unspoken rule or whatever about these banners, that we will surely get a demote. The fact that the Wolfskin and Kitsune banner didn't have that, makes me concerned about future New Heroes banners and shows their being greedy, dashing peoples hopes still, screwing over their fanbase. 

People want demotes, yet IS ignores that heavily, it's sad really. But their also doing that wrong as well since Thea is practically a 2017 unit. :/ 

"Special" seems like a confusing phrase since "Special Heroes" is what the game calls seasonal banners. Meanwhile, "New Heroes" is what it calls everything else.

What we're really talking about is subdivisions of the "New Heroes" category. Normal ones vs other kinds: CYL, alts, OCs. This is the first seemingly "normal" New Heroes banner not to have a demote, although there is an argument for it secretly being a CYL banner.

It's worth noting that the "unspoken rules" have always been in flux. At first, every banner was a New Heroes banner and had half its units demote. Then Special Heroes banners started showing up in place of some of them, but we'd still get half demotes for the New Heroes banners. Then that dropped down to one demote per banner. Then we started getting more and more kinds of New Heroes banners that don't have demotes: Brave Heroes, Farfetched Heroes, Fallen Heroes, OCs.

So I'd say one of the unspoken rules is that they keep tweaking the unspoken rules over time, usually in ways that push us to spend more money.

[Rezzy]

People give the reason that all the Beasts were too powerful to demote, but that's a self-created problem, since if they didn't make every new unit have ever-increasing power creep, they wouldn't have to keep them 5* locked.

 

Also, is Rally Up Res really worthy of being 5* locked?  Apart from Arena Scoring, Rally skills aren't that optimal, and Res is debatibly one of the worst Rallies.  Feint skills aren't that great either, since they are using your turn, rather than passively debuffing or being part of an attack.

[indigoasis]

I was lowkey banking on Kaden getting a demote so I could get Spd/Res Link, but nevermind that idea, I guess.

14 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Also, is Rally Up Res really worthy of being 5* locked?  Apart from Arena Scoring, Rally skills aren't that optimal, and Res is debatibly one of the worst Rallies.  Feint skills aren't that great either, since they are using your turn, rather than passively debuffing or being part of an attack.

Lugh has Gronnserpent too, and the blue variant has been out for who knows how long on another 5 Star exclusive unit. If they aren't demoting Female Morgan, they probably won't demote Lugh either. If Female Morgan does get a demotion, I would expect Lugh to follow suit.