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SF's "Write Your Butt Off" Competition HD II.5 Remix

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1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

...Damn it, I was supposed to join that site since Dcat recommended it to me and she sent me an invite to it. I totally forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me. I blame school and stuff. xP

I suppose I could have made it more clear that he was going through some survivor's guilt, yeah. I mean, we've even seen this in Awakening too, with Cordelia since she's the only survivor of the Pegasus knights.

You're welcome XD though be warned there's some M/M stuff as well- in case you're not into that.

 

Sorry it took me forever to get that out 😕 I really am horrible at explaining things.

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Just now, TheSilentChloey said:

You're welcome XD though be warned there's some M/M stuff as well- in case you're not into that.

 

Sorry it took me forever to get that out 😕 I really am horrible at explaining things.

I can just ignore the more mature stuff, I think.

That's fine, I'm not great at explaining things either. Or writing, apparently. Well, I always felt art was my stronger suit anyway. Writing's just a little hobby.

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29 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I don't know at all what you mean by "third person limited/omniscient" but I can't agree. I think I conveyed his grief just fine. I already put in that he was having nightmares and all that like I mentioned, what more would he go through? There's only so much.

Allow me give you that feed back now. Okay I'll start by saying that the fic was good The ending scenes did a decent job of painting the grief Chrom felt in the aftermath of their deaths and the interactions the characters have with one another is somber and the dialogue is written in a way that helps accentuate their emotions. The problem though is that there isn't enough of that and this is what I mean when I said the story probably would've been better in third person limited and without all the head-hopping. I've spoken to you before about implementing character voice into the narration. This is what I mean. Your story is written with an omniscient narrator which can work(and to be fair it did work in some instances like near the end when they were all grieving) but scenes like the build up to frederick's death as well as the death in question would've hit WAY harder if you wrote those scenes from the PoV of Frederick, Chrom, or Robin cause that way we could've been privy to their internal thoughts as the events are unfolding before them. Let me ask you this: which of these hit harder emotionally?

Spoiler

“MILORD, ROBIN!! LOOK OUT!!” Frederick suddenly screamed, with a fear in his voice that neither of the two had ever sensed before.

Out of the corner of his eye, the knight had noticed Grima’s hand prepare another attack while his liege and tactician weren’t looking. Frederick spurred his horse as fast as he could to meet it. He stepped between the pair and Grima just as the latter launched the burst of magic. Chrom and Robin turned their heads to see him.

Out of the corner of his eye, the knight had noticed Grima’s hand prepare another attack while his liege and tactician weren’t looking. Frederick spurred his horse as fast as he could to meet it. He stepped between the pair and Grima just as the latter launched the burst of magic. Chrom and Robin turned their heads to see him.

And unfortunately, Frederick, as good as his reflexes normally were, could not bring his weapon up in time.

The blow pierced his torso, going straight through his bulky silvery blue armor. His eyes bulged wide as his mouth fell open, the force of the attack also causing him to plunge from his horse. Robin shrieked loud enough to sting Chrom’s and Grima’s ears.

or 

Spoiler

Out of the corner of his eye, the knight had noticed Grima’s hand prepare another attack while his liege and tactician weren’t looking.

“MILORD, ROBIN!! LOOK OUT!!” Frederick shouted out, his voice dripping with fear. 

Without a single moment's thought or hesitation, He gripped the reigns of his horse and charged towards them as fast as he could. Please just let him make it in time. Time seemed to slow down as Frederick moved and planted himself like a wall between his liege and wife and the oncoming attack. Quickly, he gripped his weapon to try and counter only to vomit out blood as a loud sharp pain drilled through his stomach. His vision blurred as the world around him came tumbling to the ground. A loud near deafening shriek of shock and fear rang into his ears as his body smacked against the cold hard scales of Grima's back. 

 

Or if you wanna write it from Robin's perspective:

 

“MILORD, ROBIN!! LOOK OUT!!” Robin suddenly heard her husband scream.

She spun around as the loud screech of a horse rang into her ears. For a moment, her husband was in front of her. His bright blue armor shimmered in the sun only to be blotted out by a dark crimson that splattered all over her body. Her eyes went wide as the blood drenched spear was mere milometers from her face. Her mouth opened and a near deafening unholy shriek exploded into the air. She could only watch as her husband's body fell limply to the ground.

 

See the difference? Point of view is a very powerful tool and must remain consistent. The scene you wrote was in third person omniscient while the scene I wrote was in third person limited. I'm not saying one is better than the other but limited certainly has it's advantages. Third person limited is essentially the same as writing in first person just with third person pronouns but unlike first person it allows more freedom in regards to what can be described and the switching of the PoV character. Omniscient certainly is a useful POV but generally it leads to a disconnect between the reader and the characters and can be confused with head hopping(which is what you did a lot in this story). Omniscient POV is essentially writing the story with a narrator that knows literally everything about every character and what they're thinking. This narrator essentially has the power to peer into the thoughts of any character at any time though again don't get this confused with head hopping which presents its own set of problems. Third person omniscient isn't bad per say it's just hard to do well which is why I generally don't bother with it. 

Another thing I'd like to mention is if you want to sell the impact of a death or injury really be descriptive with it. You don't have to describe Organs flying all over the place but you should at least describe things like the splatter of blood, where the spear goes, how much pain they're in, etc. Descriptors like that really do help in painting a picture of how severe the wound/situation is. Again, other than that though I enjoyed the piece it was good.

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9 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I'm not sure how this fits either prompt? I've read it through a couple times and don't see where there's a character dying or where a pairing is focused on.

1 hour ago, TheSilentChloey said:

First read: Htf does this fit in with the theme?  Sure it's FE, but like...how the hell is this part of the theme?  Minus points for that.

1 hour ago, Dragoncat said:

Points for Tellius! Volke is great but yeah, where's the death or support ending?

The prompt said it could be about a solo or a paired ending.

 

12 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

...Damn it, I was supposed to join that site since Dcat recommended it to me and she sent me an invite to it. I totally forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me. I blame school and stuff. xP

Isn't that a website for smut?

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Just now, AnonymousSpeed said:

The prompt said it could be about a solo or a paired ending.

 

Isn't that a website for smut?

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh...

 

I missed that one...opps XP

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46 minutes ago, TheSilentChloey said:

I've had double whammings like that and I can tell you it really does put you in a very dark place- blaming yourself for being the person left behind, wondering why it was them instead of you, who should have died instead of them.  It makes you doubt yourself massively and if you weren't in depression, you sure as hell end up that way afterwards.  And it takes a lot to pull through.  I had to have a lot of counselling and even then...I still haven't been able to completely get over it.

Funny that you mention this because this was the entire point of what I was trying to write with my Severa fic and maybe that's why it hit so hard with you

Edited by Ottservia

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Yeah @Ottservia that'd be why.  Losing people hurts in any stretch of the imagination.  Worse when they're people who you're close to and even more worse when they're suffering from a disease that takes their memories of you away from them.  That's worse than death itself.

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...So am I the only one who thought Anon was writing about a hypothetical Volke-Bastian paired ending? It was getting a little bromance-y there at the end.

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1 minute ago, SoulWeaver said:

...So am I the only one who thought Anon was writing about a hypothetical Volke-Bastian paired ending? It was getting a little bromance-y there at the end.

"Hypothetical paired ending" would have been a neat idea, and you can take it that way if you want. It's the most sensible option for a paired ending Volke has.

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9 minutes ago, TheSilentChloey said:

Yeah @Ottservia that'd be why.  Losing people hurts in any stretch of the imagination.  Worse when they're people who you're close to and even more worse when they're suffering from a disease that takes their memories of you away from them.  That's worse than death itself.

Definitely pain like that is unimaginable and doesn't go away easily and it's our job as writers to describe that feeling. How does one describe what emptiness feels like without using the word emptiness?

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Just now, Ottservia said:

How does one describe what emptiness feels like without using the word emptiness?

As someone who had to consider that question for one of my characters, Void. You welcome.

1 minute ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

"Hypothetical paired ending" would have been a neat idea, and you can take it that way if you want. It's the most sensible option for a paired ending Volke has.

Yeah, I missed the solo part of the heads flip too so I just assumed that was what you were doing.

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1 minute ago, Ottservia said:

Definitely pain like that is unimaginable and doesn't go away easily and it's our job as writers to describe that feeling. How does one describe what emptiness feels like without using the word emptiness?

Yeah that is difficult to describe since it takes on so much more meanings than just emptiness.  And some people may not actually understand it that great.

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34 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Allow me give you that feed back now. Okay I'll start by saying that the fic was good The ending scenes did a decent job of painting the grief Chrom felt in the aftermath of their deaths and the interactions the characters have with one another is somber and the dialogue is written in a way that helps accentuate their emotions. The problem though is that there isn't enough of that and this is what I mean when I said the story probably would've been better in third person limited and without all the head-hopping. I've spoken to you before about implementing character voice into the narration. This is what I mean. Your story is written with an omniscient narrator which can work(and to be fair it did work in some instances like near the end when they were all grieving) but scenes like the build up to frederick's death as well as the death in question would've hit WAY harder if you wrote those scenes from the PoV of Frederick, Chrom, or Robin cause that way we could've been privy to their internal thoughts as the events are unfolding before them. Let me ask you this: which of these hit harder emotionally?

  Reveal hidden contents

“MILORD, ROBIN!! LOOK OUT!!” Frederick suddenly screamed, with a fear in his voice that neither of the two had ever sensed before.

Out of the corner of his eye, the knight had noticed Grima’s hand prepare another attack while his liege and tactician weren’t looking. Frederick spurred his horse as fast as he could to meet it. He stepped between the pair and Grima just as the latter launched the burst of magic. Chrom and Robin turned their heads to see him.

Out of the corner of his eye, the knight had noticed Grima’s hand prepare another attack while his liege and tactician weren’t looking. Frederick spurred his horse as fast as he could to meet it. He stepped between the pair and Grima just as the latter launched the burst of magic. Chrom and Robin turned their heads to see him.

And unfortunately, Frederick, as good as his reflexes normally were, could not bring his weapon up in time.

The blow pierced his torso, going straight through his bulky silvery blue armor. His eyes bulged wide as his mouth fell open, the force of the attack also causing him to plunge from his horse. Robin shrieked loud enough to sting Chrom’s and Grima’s ears.

or 

  Reveal hidden contents

Out of the corner of his eye, the knight had noticed Grima’s hand prepare another attack while his liege and tactician weren’t looking.

“MILORD, ROBIN!! LOOK OUT!!” Frederick shouted out, his voice dripping with fear. 

Without a single moment's thought or hesitation, He gripped the reigns of his horse and charged towards them as fast as he could. Please just let him make it in time. Time seemed to slow down as Frederick moved and planted himself like a wall between his liege and wife and the oncoming attack. Quickly, he gripped his weapon to try and counter only to vomit out blood as a loud sharp pain drilled through his stomach. His vision blurred as the world around him came tumbling to the ground. A loud near deafening shriek of shock and fear rang into his ears as his body smacked against the cold hard scales of Grima's back. 

 

Or if you wanna write it from Robin's perspective:

 

“MILORD, ROBIN!! LOOK OUT!!” Robin suddenly heard her husband scream.

She spun around as the loud screech of a horse rang into her ears. For a moment, her husband was in front of her. His bright blue armor shimmered in the sun only to be blotted out by a dark crimson that splattered all over her body. Her eyes went wide as the blood drenched spear was mere milometers from her face. Her mouth opened and a near deafening unholy shriek exploded into the air. She could only watch as her husband's body fell limply to the ground.

 

See the difference? Point of view is a very powerful tool and must remain consistent. The scene you wrote was in third person omniscient while the scene I wrote was in third person limited. I'm not saying one is better than the other but limited certainly has it's advantages. Third person limited is essentially the same as writing in first person just with third person pronouns but unlike first person it allows more freedom in regards to what can be described and the switching of the PoV character. Omniscient certainly is a useful POV but generally it leads to a disconnect between the reader and the characters and can be confused with head hopping(which is what you did a lot in this story). Omniscient POV is essentially writing the story with a narrator that knows literally everything about every character and what they're thinking. This narrator essentially has the power to peer into the thoughts of any character at any time though again don't get this confused with head hopping which presents its own set of problems. Third person omniscient isn't bad per say it's just hard to do well which is why I generally don't bother with it. 

Another thing I'd like to mention is if you want to sell the impact of a death or injury really be descriptive with it. You don't have to describe Organs flying all over the place but you should at least describe things like the splatter of blood, where the spear goes, how much pain they're in, etc. Descriptors like that really do help in painting a picture of how severe the wound/situation is. Again, other than that though I enjoyed the piece it was good.

Both of those hit equally, I'd say. I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The scene you're talking about there, btw, is from Chrom and Robin's point of view, just like you're suggesting. Not Frederick's or anyone else's.

I don't like being very descriptive with scenes like that. It's too gross and gorey. Even if you aren't necessarily describing organs flying around or something.

28 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

The prompt said it could be about a solo or a paired ending.

I didn't remember the solo part, my bad on that. But I'm still not sure where the part of the solo ending is here.

Edited by Anacybele

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31 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Isn't that a website for smut?

It can be. It's basically FF.net only without trolls.

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5 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

What good is it, then?

Have Ana tell you about how she got some bad trollfic writer impersonating her and nearly ruining her reputation on FF.net.

Edited by Dragoncat

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1 minute ago, Dragoncat said:

Have Ana tell you about how she got some bad trollfic writer impersonating her and nearly ruining her reputation.

Yep, this did happen, no joke. The impersonator was convinced to stop it, but it still was a shitty thing to do.

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17 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Both of those hit equally, I'd say. I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The scene you're talking about there, btw, is from Chrom and Robin's point of view, just like you're suggesting. Not Frederick's or anyone else's.

Okay first of all if that scene was written in Chrom and Robin's perspective you would not have lines like:

"Out of the corner of his eye, the knight had noticed Grima’s hand prepare another attack while his liege and tactician weren’t looking. Frederick spurred his horse as fast as he could to meet it. He stepped between the pair and Grima just as the latter launched the burst of magic. Chrom and Robin turned their heads to see him."

Simply because Chrom and Robin have literally no idea what Frederick can see, so how the hell would they be able to describe that frederick saw the attack out of the corner of his eye. That's only something frederick would know. Also don't tell me that part was from Frederick's POV because that would be you admitting to head-hopping and that's not good because it's just confusing. It jars the reader's immersion as they frantically try to figure who's perspective this story is being told from. Again, it's very confusing. Also if this was third person limited you would not need all the exposition you have in the beginning of the story. That's something only the audience needs to know. The characters don't need to know that. That exposition at the begining and end are very much signs of an omniscient narrator. All I'm trying to say is be a little more consistent with your POV

17 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I don't like being very descriptive with scenes like that. It's too gross and gorey. Even if you aren't necessarily describing organs flying around or something.

Here's the thing about that. In a moment like that you want your reader to feel grossed out and uncomfortable because that's what the characters feel and you want the reader to empathize with the characters. That's just how it is. If you want me to feel for the character. You have to get me to feel what they feel. Really make me feel that pain of a sharp spear twisting and turning as it moves its way deeper and deeper through your soft red flesh. Its tip drenched in blood as it bursts out in a geyser of crimson on the other side of your body. You see what I mean. Descriptions like that are very powerful.

 

Edited by Ottservia

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4 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Okay first of all if that scene was written in Chrom and Robin's perspective you would not have lines like:

"Out of the corner of his eye, the knight had noticed Grima’s hand prepare another attack while his liege and tactician weren’t looking. Frederick spurred his horse as fast as he could to meet it. He stepped between the pair and Grima just as the latter launched the burst of magic. Chrom and Robin turned their heads to see him."

Simply because Chrom and Robin have literally no idea what Frederick can see, so how the hell would they be able to describe that frederick saw the attack out of the corner of his eye. That's only something frederick would know. Also don't tell me that part was from Frederick's POV because that would be you admitting to head-hopping and that's not good because it's just confusing. It jars the reader's immersion as they frantically try to figure who's perspective this story is being told from. Again, it's very confusing. Also if this was third person limited you would not need all the exposition you have in the beginning of the story. That's something only the audience needs to know. The characters don't need to know that. That exposition at the begining and end are very much signs of an omniscient narrator. All I'm trying to say is be a little more with your POV

Okay, I admit that one line was from Frederick's view, you're right. But the rest of it wasn't. And a little more what with POV? That sentence looks unfinished.

4 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Here's the thing about that. In a moment like that you want your reader to feel grossed out and uncomfortable because that's what the characters feel and you want the reader to empathize with the characters. That's just how it is. If you want me to feel for the character. You have to get me to feel what they feel. Really make me feel that pain of a sharp spear twisting and turning as it moves its way deeper and deeper through your soft red flesh. Its tip drenched in blood as it bursts out in a geyser of crimson on the other side of your body. You see what I mean. Descriptions like that are powerful.

Why would you want to gross your readers out? That's...well, gross. It'd discourage them from reading more. If I was reading and got grossed out, I wouldn't want to keep reading at all either. Descriptions like that aren't "powerful" they're disgusting and only serve to push readers away.

Grima didn't use a spear, btw. He used magic. Remember, he's controlling Robin, who uses swords and magic. And I specifically described him using a magic attack anyway.

Edited by Anacybele

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24 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Why would you want to gross your readers out? That's...well, gross. It'd discourage them from reading more. If I was reading and got grossed out, I wouldn't want to keep reading at all either. Descriptions like that aren't "powerful" they're disgusting and only serve to push readers away.

Grima didn't use a spear, btw. He used magic. Remember, he's controlling Robin, who uses swords and magic. And I specifically described him using a magic attack anyway.

Well that’s my bad for not catching that so I’m sorry. As for why I would want my reader to feel disgusted? Well I dunno maybe it’s because that’s what the characters feel. I dunno about you but watching a massive hole be blown through someone’s stomach by a blast of dark magic is pretty disturbing and gross. Like that’s exactly what the characters are witnessing at that moment and if you want your audience to empathize with them more you should make the reader feel what they feel. So if the character feels disgusted then the reader should feel disgusted. If the character feels pain, the reader should feel pain. If your character is depressed because they view themselves as a worthless piece of human garbage then your reader should feel the same at least to a degree.

 

30 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Okay, I admit that one line was from Frederick's view, you're right. But the rest of it wasn't. And a little more what with POV? That sentence looks unfinished.

I was trying to say you should be more consistent with your POV. 

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2 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Well that’s my bad for not catching that so I’m sorry. As for why I would want my reader to feel disgusted? Well I dunno maybe it’s because that’s what the characters feel. I dunno about you but watching a massive hole be blown through someone’s stomach by a blast of dark magic is pretty disturbing and gross. Like that’s exactly what the characters are witnessing at that moment and if you want your audience to empathize with them more you should make the reader feel what they feel. So if the character feels disgusted then the reader should feel disgusted. If the character feels pain, the reader should feel pain. If your character is depressed because they view themselves as a worthless piece of human garbage then your reader should feel the same at least to a degree.

Sorry, but I still can't agree with any of this. I just cannot understand why I'd want to make my readers feel disgusted or like a worthless piece of human garbage.

3 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I was trying to say you should be more consistent with your POV. 

Okay then, that's fair.

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Otts is right, emotions in stories are extremely important.  You can't afford to misstep with them.  Plus I tend to "soften" my PG stuff because it's a force of habit- probably my best works are M but Rain's Story is a bit different in that regard because the softness was needed there.

 

However there are some stories that I personally feel go wtf for me, but I'll keep reading/watching because damn it I want to see the "bad" guy get their comeuppance.

 

Also I have started on Black Lagoon and holy hell is it GOOD!  A little on the gross side but very good.

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3 minutes ago, TheSilentChloey said:

Otts is right, emotions in stories are extremely important.  You can't afford to misstep with them.

Well yeah, I'm not saying emotions aren't important. I'm just saying you don't need to gross out your readers or make them depressed and stuff in order to convey good emotions.

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21 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Sorry, but I still can't agree with any of this. I just cannot understand why I'd want to make my readers feel disgusted or like a worthless piece of human garbage.

You wanna know how show don't tell works? because that's how it works. Also you're looking at it a bit too literally. It works for positive emotions as well. If the character feels happy then the reader should feel happy. You want the audience to empathize with the character otherwise they won't care. It's the difference between saying:

"Damnit" He said angrily.

and

"DAMNIT!!!!" He yelled as he slammed his fist into the wall. Splinters of wood flung into the air as a massive gaping whole formed on impact.

It gives the reader that sort of "oh shit" kind of feeling. The reader is likely thinking "Shit dude calm down" in the lattercase where as in the former they're just left thinking "Ok he's angry"

 

Edited by Ottservia

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11 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

You wanna know how show don't tell works? because that's how it works. Also you're looking at it a bit too literally. It works for positive emotions as well. If the character feels happy then the reader should feel happy. You want the audience to empathize with the character otherwise they won't care. It's the difference between saying:

"Damnit" He said angrily.

and

"DAMNIT!!!!" He yelled as he slammed his fist into the wall. Splinters of wood flung into the air as a massive gaping whole formed on impact.

It gives the reader that sort of "oh shit" kind of feeling. The reader is likely thinking "Shit dude calm down" in the lattercase where as in the former they're just left thinking "Ok he's angry"

Of course I know I should show, not tell. But I'm still not sure if your idea of that works for me.

Yes, of course I see the difference between those two pieces of dialogue.

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