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March/April 2019 Special Heroes Arrive! Regal Rabbits!


Anacybele
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19 hours ago, bethany81707 said:

Me and my favourite non-pegasus girl, on the other hand... well, 'fuck off, IS' is probably too mild a reaction.

Out of curiosity, who would that be? I can think of a few who were rather controversial.

 

19 hours ago, DarthR0xas said:

I don't really see the outfit as that egregious, or really very egregious at all. For one, saying she's been reduced to "just tits" is absurd. While we don't have the plain artwork yet, from what we see in the trailer that clearly isn't the case. She's basically dressed like Spring Catria, just green and without the gloves. While she is showing a little more cleavage, it really isn't enough for me to say she's "just tits". Plus, they aren't even close to the main focus in her attacking pose, unlike another spring alt, Spring Kagero. This blasting of the artwork feels unjustified imo.

19 hours ago, Anacybele said:

How does this Palla look like she's been reduced to just tits? I don't see her as very sexualized at all. I mean, she is a little bit, but all the female bunnies are to some degree. But to say she's just tits now is kind of a big exaggeration. You want a seasonal that's just tits, look at hot spring Camilla.

Upon looking at it again, it's not as bad as my initial impression. Also, upon looking at Catria again, her outfit is a whole lot stupider than I realized. Turns out what I thought was a skirt was just lace on her butt because that totally makes sense. It does seem like there's progressively less material on these outfits every year though, even if not by a ton.

@DarthR0xas I'd disagree about her chest not being the focal point in her attacking art. Her torso fills up the middle third of the screen, more or less, putting her chest at the upper third and thighs at the lower third, which are probably two of the more important points in any given composition. Her head is angled away from the camera, meaning it's proportionally smaller which placed more emphasis on her torso. At least thankfully, the angling makes her proportions look sane, unlike HS!Camilla.

@Anacybele Oh, trust me, I hate her way more. Not only is she shameless fan service, the art is complete and utter shit. She's the only character in my barracks who's at 0 HM, and I don't even dislike Camilla like that. Palla is far from the most egregious of the lot. I actually find Winter Cecilia more irritating because at least with Palla it seems more in character and they didn't up her cup size significantly just because.

 

19 hours ago, Ottservia said:

I mean that's kind of the point of seasonal alts in general. Every character on here is being reduced to "just tits" or in bruno's case washboard abs but you get the idea. Veronica is being reduced to cute kuudere loli and that's fine. The whole point of these banners is to cater to the lowest common denominator. So why fight the degeneracy? I say we embrace it.

Hence why I want them dead.

This banner isn't the worst thing ever, but it's just one more, admittedly fairly minor, thing in a series of stuff that just have me real irritated with Heroes right now.

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12 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Oh, trust me, I hate her way more. Not only is she shameless fan service, the art is complete and utter shit. She's the only character in my barracks who's at 0 HM, and I don't even dislike Camilla like that. Palla is far from the most egregious of the lot. I actually find Winter Cecilia more irritating because at least with Palla it seems more in character and they didn't up her cup size significantly just because.

Yeah, I don't argue with that, I always hated Camilla to begin with, and this art just makes her worse still imo. Winter Cecilia irritates me too, because why did her chest get such a huge size upgrade from her normal art? I love Senri Kita, but...yeah. And honestly, given previous Senri Kita art, I'm way more inclined to believe that she was TOLD to draw Cecilia with boobs hanging out of her dress's top. I don't think she'd normally draw a female that way by her own decision. Winter Cecilia's chest is the only thing about her art that bugs me though, I otherwise think it's gorgeous.

It's just that the way you worded your criticism of Bunny Palla made me feel like you were equating her to HS Camilla or something. xP

Edited by Anacybele
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4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Winter Cecilia irritates me too, because why did her chest get such a huge size upgrade from her normal art?

What's to say it wasn't always like that? Maybe her breastplate was pushing her chest down?

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23 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, I don't argue with that, I always hated Camilla to begin with, and this art just makes her worse still imo. Winter Cecilia irritates me too, because why did her chest get such a huge size upgrade from her normal art? I love Senri Kita, but...yeah. And honestly, given previous Senri Kita art, I'm way more inclined to believe that she was TOLD to draw Cecilia with boobs hanging out of her dress's top. I don't think she'd normally draw a female that way by her own decision. Winter Cecilia's chest is the only thing about her art that bugs me though, I otherwise think it's gorgeous.

It's just that the way you worded your criticism of Bunny Palla made me feel like you were equating her to HS Camilla or something. xP

Same actually on Cecilia. Aside from that one oddity, her art is just gorgeous on the whole. And yeah, I was probably a bit overly harsh. I think between it being late where I am and watching it on my phone so the outfits weren't as visible, I was just in a bad mood.

 

18 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

What's to say it wasn't always like that? Maybe her breastplate was pushing her chest down?

When have they ever let armor get in the way of flaunting assets?

Edited by bottlegnomes
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18 hours ago, XRay said:

 

Mythic Reinhardt Ishtar when? Kneel before the Goddess of Thunder!

I would gladly!

18 hours ago, eclipse said:

And I can already hear the complaints when it's Silvia in something revealing.  Or perhaps Tailtiu.

Worse yet, I can see this as being how they introduce someone like Shannan.  Which would mean that I'd be one of the complainers!

Silvia already is in a revealing dance outfit, I don't think many would complain about her I guess unless she gets the famous butt/boobs spine break pose.  Tailtiu, let me tell you something, I do not like her Heroes art at all.  She looks like Mr. Burns in that X files episode, just very weird.  I would gladly welcome a seasonal alt that draws her more properly.  Elincia original version is youngified a lot which was annoying, but her seasonal version is pristine and amazing.  

They better not give Shannan that kind of treatment, a character like Oifeye who is one of the few present for both generations and very significant.  Now Shannam  would be a hilarious seasonal only character though.

On the bunnies theme, I actually rather like it.  The bunny appeal is huge in Japan and US as well as much of the world so it makes sense to capitalize on it.  I think the bunny theme is such a huge draw that typically as far as power and skills this has been one of the weaker banners as far as seasonals go from year one to this one.  We love bunnies.  I would like to say that the only reason I pulled for Spring Kagero last year was her being the first flying dagger unit as well as having a good stat spread, but that would be a lie.  

These units look great.  This is the best version of Veronica we've gotten, art wise, it is absolutely adorable and thankfully not perverse.  Palla, yes definitely best whitewing, art is simple but good and I don't think too fanservicy.  Marisa art is great, Bruno inspires me to go back to the gym (one of these days).  Oh and besides the damage art Loki looks phenomenal, definitely very fan servicey but I don't mind.  Also that bow, can't wait to find out what it is.  

 

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4 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

When have they ever let armor get in the way of flaunting assets?

Back in ye olden days they did, all the time even. Not to call all old art devoid of unnecessary sexual elements:

Spoiler

Nina.jpg

I don't get why her breasts done like for emphasis.

Page 41

Barefoot, leaves you wondering if she actually wears underwear. Cecil FYI also lacks pants when Cain and Abel have them.

 

Page 86: Patty and Fee

Why is Patty leaning like that? :facepalm: Treasure gave her pants, and I hope 4 Remake keeps it that way.

klein.pngigrene.png

Pants on Klein, no pants on Igrene. Dorothy actually has pants like Wolt, I think its says something about her intentional design of lacking sex appeal.

isadora.pngmarcus.png

Again, no pants vs. her male counterpart(s).

 

Lethe.jpgRanulf.jpg

Why is Lethe wearing a collar and Ranulf doesn't? (And this carries over to their shifted forms.) Is it saying to a male audience "walk me"?

But again, clothes were certainly less fanservicey on the ladies in days pre-Awakening.

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5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Back in ye olden days they did, all the time even. Not to call all old art devoid of unnecessary sexual elements:

  Hide contents

Nina.jpg

I don't get why her breasts done like for emphasis.

Page 41

Barefoot, leaves you wondering if she actually wears underwear. Cecil FYI also lacks pants when Cain and Abel have them.

 

Page 86: Patty and Fee

Why is Patty leaning like that? :facepalm: Treasure gave her pants, and I hope 4 Remake keeps it that way.

klein.pngigrene.png

Pants on Klein, no pants on Igrene. Dorothy actually has pants like Wolt, I think its says something about her intentional design of lacking sex appeal.

isadora.pngmarcus.png

Again, no pants vs. her male counterpart(s).

 

Lethe.jpgRanulf.jpg

Why is Lethe wearing a collar and Ranulf doesn't? (And this carries over to their shifted forms.) Is it saying to a male audience "walk me"?

But again, clothes were certainly less fanservicey on the ladies in days pre-Awakening.

yeah...that's probably my only gripe with Fates outside of some story elements. I always feel so awkward when promoting Charlotte, Nyx or Ophelia. Fighter/Berserker costume choices were just really, really bad. The spring outfits are nowhere near as bad as that.

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38 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

 Hence why I want them dead.

This banner isn't the worst thing ever, but it's just one more, admittedly fairly minor, thing in a series of stuff that just have me real irritated with Heroes right now.

I disagree about the Seasonals only catering to the lowest common denominator and being nothing more than lazy fanservice. I can understand being sick of the fact they outnumber regular heroes, but the seasonal heroes have their own merits and a reason to exist too.

Let's take the Spring Heroes as examples. They obviously give us tits and butts, and abs, and crotches and whatnot. But they also give us something we really need. Sillyness, and happiness, and heartwarming what-ifs. Spring Xander is funny for a variety of reasons (all Xander's alts are funny, between "I CAN NOT SWIM" and "I shall dance" and if they are funny it means some thought was put into making them) but he also makes me happy because he had to endure much in his world, but here he can just have some fun, unlike his GHB version. Same thing for Lucina. I swear all of her other alts are serious as f*ck, can't she just take it easy? Isn't the point of alternate Lucinas to give us versions of her who had a childhood and a family? Apparently not, since her Spring version is the only one that's carefree and happy, hopping around like a rabbit. Thanks Naga that version exists.

Year two gave us "Ninjabbit Attack" and the hilarity of Kagero explaining to Catria how a true warrior must remain concentrated on her duty, no matter what she is wearing, while being the textbook definition of the Comically Serious trope. And by the looks of it, thanks to Marisa, this year's spring festival will be funny too. And will also be adorable, what with a version of Veronica who can finally be with her brother at last.

Many fans, especially the ones that started with Awakening, like the series because of how funny the support conversations are. Gaius and Sumia stealing honey and getting chased by bees, Shinon telling Gatrie that he would flirt with a tree if it had a skirt and all kinds of silly hijnx. But Heroes doesn't have supports and the lines we get for the regular versions are usually more serious, because they have to tell us what the characters are like, so unless the very essence of that character is amusing by default (Narcian, Owain, Serra) there is no place to have some fun.

And we certainly can't have fun in the story mode, what with them killing every character for the sake of angst. And angst is fine too, but it's a good thing to also have the paralogues and seasonals to balance it out with some fun.

The point of a videogame is to have fun. To quote our ex-president Reggie "if it isn't fun, why bother?". In standard Fire Emblem games they use the supports and bonus stuff to balance the seriousness of the story. In Heroes they use seasonals. It's something that is needed. We can argue that we get too much of it compared to the other thing, but on principle it is needed.

With this I'm not trying to argue that eye-candy isn't the point of seasonals. It very much is, why do you think people are already gushing over Bruno before the paralogue and his lines are out? It's because he looks like a fine dish.

What I'm trying to argue is that eye-candy is half of the point. Having some silly fun being the other half.

If the only point of Seasonals was fanservice, then why so many people make their own fake seasonals, why the speculation threads before the reveal, why the reactions, why the art, why do they talk about them?

Is everyone horny? Is everyone stupid? Maybe most people just take seasonals as the innocent fun they are and try to have a good time with the game.

On one hand, this is obviously easier for new fans since they are more used to silly supports, and have a higher chance of already having their faves in the game, so they don't look forward to them being added. If all of my faves were fron Thracia I would have little patience for silly stuff that gets in the way of a new Thracia banner too.

But on the other hand, are older fans immune to comedy? I understand the old games had less fluff, but this is the sane fanbase that jokes about the biggest massacre of the series every time fire or a barbecue is mentioned, so I find that hard to believe.

Also, I hear you say that seasonals are lazy and not creative. But if all we had were normal banners, wouldn't that be even less creative? Every character already has an iconic design, so all the artists have to do is replicate that design in their artstyle. How is that creative at all? For better or for worse the legacy Heroes will leave is the original designs. Which means their OCs, the Brave Heroes, the not-seasonal alts like Flying Olivia, but mostly seasonals.

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55 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Let's take the Spring Heroes as examples. They obviously give us tits and butts, and abs, and crotches and whatnot. But they also give us something we really need. Sillyness, and happiness, and heartwarming what-ifs. Spring Xander is funny for a variety of reasons (all Xander's alts are funny, between "I CAN NOT SWIM" and "I shall dance" and if they are funny it means some thought was put into making them) but he also makes me happy because he had to endure much in his world, but here he can just have some fun, unlike his GHB version. Same thing for Lucina. I swear all of her other alts are serious as f*ck, can't she just take it easy? Isn't the point of alternate Lucinas to give us versions of her who had a childhood and a family? Apparently not, since her Spring version is the only one that's carefree and happy, hopping around like a rabbit. Thanks Naga that version exists.

I'd possibly be inclined to agree, but that doesn't help much when the vanilla version of one of my favourites reads like that (and feeds into a common misconception about her character to spread it) and part of the Sharena bio on Marisa gives me uncomfortable thoughts in regards to 'getting asocial people to socialise'.

59 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Many fans, especially the ones that started with Awakening, like the series because of how funny the support conversations are. Gaius and Sumia stealing honey and getting chased by bees, Shinon telling Gatrie that he would flirt with a tree if it had a skirt and all kinds of silly hijnx. But Heroes doesn't have supports and the lines we get for the regular versions are usually more serious, because they have to tell us what the characters are like, so unless the very essence of that character is amusing by default (Narcian, Owain, Serra) there is no place to have some fun.

Then let's make a place!

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13 minutes ago, bethany81707 said:

I'd possibly be inclined to agree, but that doesn't help much when the vanilla version of one of my favourites reads like that (and feeds into a common misconception about her character to spread it) and part of the Sharena bio on Marisa gives me uncomfortable thoughts in regards to 'getting asocial people to socialise'.

Really? If that's true, yuck.

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Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, can I just say I also LOVE that Palla is inspired by Disney here? She's wearing Tinker Bell shoes! And her shade of green here also matches Tink's!

Spoiler

4806dea5e535a31a5ee33768a4b11141.jpgpalla_eldest_bun_bun_slide01.png

The things on her ankles sorta look like fairy/butterfly wings too. I definitely think there's Tinker Bell inspiration!

Edited by Anacybele
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1 hour ago, bethany81707 said:

Then let's make a place!

*Pops a Dragon Vein, and my jugular*

Viola! A giant treehouse within a castle! I call it Le Club Chat Chat- an all-purpose clubhouse filled with rooms and supplies for every need. Floor 1 northwest is where the New Year's stuff is stored, Floor 3 northeast has imported pure white sand, seawater, a wave machine, and a Cymbeline UV light in the ceiling for perfect lighting and tanning, movable if one wants a sunrise, sunset, nightfall, or a midday sun. Check Basement 2-2 for whoopie cushions, tissues for anime nosebleeds, and the zipper panties TMS was going to have, but scrapped before final release. Check the ovens in the kitchen for the deadly ladles, spoons, eggs, and popsicle dragonstones.

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2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

*points at Titania*

You mean another character that they made an active attempt to increase the physical desirability of because that's apparently all there is to these characters according to IS?

Snark aside, that whole line of argument seems a bit ridiculous. These aren't real people with loads of aspects most of us never fully see. These are drawings and words. All that exists of them is what we see and what we're told. Unless it's otherwise established, or at least hinted, there's no legitimate reason to believe that there is some physical attribute that's notably different than what's presented. Nothing regarding Cecilia has ever hinted at such.

And also, let's be honest, I'm not a girl, but if I were, I can't imagine smashing my boobs from this into this would be especially comfortable. Sports bras are a thing, but to my knowledge, they don't make a large C cup, possibly D if google's method of measuring isn't lying to me, turn into an A cup.

@omegaxis1 Since this was relevant to your initial point.

Regarding Titania, the difference seems notably less pronounced, at least to me, and also, well, using another creation in the exact same setting doesn't exactly work as a bullet proof counter argument given the same reason as above. Just as a note, I do actually quite like Titania's art as well, and don't have any particular issues with it.

 

2 hours ago, bethany81707 said:

Sanaki.

You have my sympathy. :[

 

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Back in ye olden days they did, all the time even. Not to call all old art devoid of unnecessary sexual elements:

  Reveal hidden contents

Nina.jpg

I don't get why her breasts done like for emphasis.

Page 41

Barefoot, leaves you wondering if she actually wears underwear. Cecil FYI also lacks pants when Cain and Abel have them.

 

Page 86: Patty and Fee

Why is Patty leaning like that? :facepalm: Treasure gave her pants, and I hope 4 Remake keeps it that way.

klein.pngigrene.png

Pants on Klein, no pants on Igrene. Dorothy actually has pants like Wolt, I think its says something about her intentional design of lacking sex appeal.

isadora.pngmarcus.png

Again, no pants vs. her male counterpart(s).

 

Lethe.jpgRanulf.jpg

Why is Lethe wearing a collar and Ranulf doesn't? (And this carries over to their shifted forms.) Is it saying to a male audience "walk me"?

But again, clothes were certainly less fanservicey on the ladies in days pre-Awakening.

Not gonna disagree with that. Toss in Karla off the top of my head as well. Karel gets pants but his sis apparently has much more resilient legs.

@GrandeRampel I respect your level of effort too much to BS you, so I'll be upfront in saying I only skimmed your post at the moment. Will definitely read it in full later. Short, snarky version of it is that's the other reason I want them dead.

More in detail, though: I like the more humorous parts just as much as anyone. Volke's boat convo with Ike where Ike decides "I'll just tell her he died" was freaking hilarious. Shinon's drunken rant was both very funny and quite endearing. Gray as a whole I'm a fan of. Niime going all hardass gramma on Hugh was great too. I'm a fan of Chrom and F!Robin too. The Orb Thief Forging Bonds might have actually been my favorite since I felt like it actually put more background to characters that had seemed rather shallow when I played fates and ended up making me like all of them save Kaden more. I don't want the whole series to turn grimdark by any means. My two gripes are the sheer amount, which is actually the far and away much larger, and that they can get overly silly at times. I say I want them dead, but as with many of my posts here and there, that's being hyperbolic. I'm just sick of them and that they're basically an excuse to not add new characters.

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4 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

You mean another character that they made an active attempt to increase the physical desirability of because that's apparently all there is to these characters according to IS?

Snark aside, that whole line of argument seems a bit ridiculous. These aren't real people with loads of aspects most of us never fully see. These are drawings and words. All that exists of them is what we see and what we're told. Unless it's otherwise established, or at least hinted, there's no legitimate reason to believe that there is some physical attribute that's notably different than what's presented. Nothing regarding Cecilia has ever hinted at such.

And also, let's be honest, I'm not a girl, but if I were, I can't imagine smashing my boobs from this into this would be especially comfortable. Sports bras are a thing, but to my knowledge, they don't make a large C cup, possibly D if google's method of measuring isn't lying to me, turn into an A cup.

If you are interested as to what happened to Cecila's boobs, shoot me a PM, and I can explain. . .because that's a lot of faulty assumptions.

(this extends to ANYONE who wants an explanation)

In other words, enough about Cecilia with Brunya's tits in a banner where she isn't featured.

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2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

In other words, enough about Cecilia with Brunya's tits in a banner where she isn't featured.

Then get us a banner where Brunnya is featured. More new characters is better, and I'm not even a Brunnya fan. :P:

 

10 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Volke's boat convo with Ike where Ike decides "I'll just tell her he died" was freaking hilarious.

Maybe FEH could finally feature the scrapped MistxVolke Support, that was going to be a thing in PoR.

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Looks like the update is now live. Time to wait for the dataminers.

 

EDIT:

Spoiler

Bruno is hilariously physically bulky.

Palla ties Halloween Kagero for strongest dagger arm in the game.

 

EDIT 2:

Disarm Trap

Spoiler

Is locked to daggers only.

 

Edited by Ice Dragon
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23 minutes ago, bethany81707 said:

Here are some numbers:

  Hide contents

jtwxqq2j50n21.png

Wow, those are some numbers. I wish I knew what they meant.

Regarding their stats...

Spoiler

Spring Loki's 39 HP, 31 Atk, 34 Spd, 27 Def, and 25 Res gives her 156 BST and if she were summonable, then she would have no superboons and HP and defense superbanes. She's essentially a flying, gen 3 Clarisse and possessed Takumi. So, she technically doesn't powercreep them, mainly Clarisse, in stats since she's a flying archer, but she does powercreep them in stats. Compared to Clarisse, +2 HP, +2 Def, and +5 Res and compared to possessed Takumi, +2 HP, +2 Def, and +1 Res.

"I'm a rabbit" Veronica's 38 HP, 35 Atk, 36 Spd, 16 Def, and 25 Res gives her 150 BST and she has a resistance superboon and HP and defense superbanes. Compared to her brave, healer self, +2 HP, +3 Atk, -5 Def, and +6 Res.

Spring Marisa's 42 HP, 33 Atk, 38 Spd, 28 Def, and 21 Res gives her 162 BST and she has a speed superboon and a defense superbane. Compared to her regular self, -4 HP, +3 Atk, +2 Spd, and -2 Def. She's most comparable to summer Innes who has 42 HP, 33 Atk, 37 Spd, 30 Def, and 20 Res.

Spring Palla's 38 HP, 37 Atk, 34 Spd, 17 Def, and 29 Res gives her 155 BST and she has HP and attack superboons and a defense superbane. She's a red, gen 3 ninjabbit Kagero and hot springs Hinkoka. Compared to the ninjabbit: +2 HP, +2 Atk, -1 Def, and +2 Def, and compared to hot springs Hinoka: +2 Atk, -1 Spd, +1 Def, +3 Res.

Spring Bruno's 41 HP, 30 Atk, 24 Spd, 35 Def, and 14 Res gives him 144 BST and he has speed and resistance superboons and an attack superbane. That's rough. Not only does he not get gen 3 ranged cavalry stats which I'm getting the feeling with him that healers of any movement probably won't get gen 3 BST, but he can also drop down to 26 attack which hurts his ability to heal.

Edited by Kaden
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