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FE Heroes x Dragalia Lost Colab Coming


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The collaboration makes sense for Dragalia Lost it is an original property, thus all characters have to be created specifically for it.  It makes no sense for Heroes which is a series that spans several decades and has hundreds upon hundreds of characters to draw from.  Also if there were to be a collaboration for $$$ purposes Dragalia Lost would be a poor choice.  

Most Heroes players are playing cause they are FE fans not cause they are gacha fans.  In addition most only play one gacha since they are often super time consuming (Dragalia is supposed to be an epic time sink from what I hear).  Then if they actually are playing more than one, there are other big titles besides Dragalia.  So how much of a cross appeal is there going to be?  Really tiny.  People talk about Thracia not having many fans, Heroes players who are also Dragalia players is likely substantially less than that. If they did a Nintendo all star banner with Mario, Link, Samus and Icarus or something that would make sense $$$ wise cause those are household names everyone knows.  

One other point and a reason I don't like collabs in general.  They are the most greedy predatory type of banner.  Seasonals well they come on legendary/mythic banners and repeat every year even if they aren't in the regular pool, sure that puts a lot more pressure on players than new hero banners but that is nothing compared to collaborations.  They are one time only and then gone forever.  If there is a meta defining unit or skill (which I'm sure these greedy collabs love to do) then it puts enormous pressure to spend all free resources and then break the bank to get the unit or be screwed over forever.  It preys on the must have, don't miss out, have now, limited exclusive!!! Etc.  

Finally, we get one new hero banner a month, having that replaced by a collab (cause yeah I agree they definitely aren't replacing a seasonal) would be a travesty.  

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23 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

They are one time only and then gone forever.

Not necessarily.

Fate/Grand Order reruns its collaboration characters not only during the rerun of the original event, but also on various other occasions, such as New Year's or n-million download celebrations.

Puzzles and Dragons, if I remember correctly, reran its original Monster Hunter X (Monster Hunter Generations in the West) collaboration content during the collaboration event with Monster Hunter XX (Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate).

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It’s a one-way collab so no Dragalia characters in FEH...yet. I guess they'd throw in the Askr trio there. 

It would be interesting if FEH were to do actual collaboration events with other Nintendo franchises. 

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14 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

I love how collab characters will suddenly be “fresh air” and not “reskin of OP unit #420”. This isn’t really not an argument to be made at all.

I'll admit, collab characters likely will still be reskins of OP units. However, the very nature of collab characters makes them standout so yeah, this will still be fresh air.

53 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

It makes no sense for Heroes which is a series that spans several decades and has hundreds upon hundreds of characters to draw from.

It's not unheard of though. Tales of Link, Fate/GO, Final Fantasy Brave Exvius and Puzzles&Dragons are all gacha games of established franchises that have done collaborations with other franchises. And those are just the ones i know of. So it's not going to feel unusual if FEH does it. And before you say that "people play FEH for FE", i'm sure people play the other games i mentioned for the same reason and yet as far as i know, they aren't opposed to collabs like FEH players are.

53 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

In addition most only play one gacha since they are often super time consuming (Dragalia is supposed to be an epic time sink from what I hear)

Nah, Dragalia's tame. Granblue is the real time sink. Though i'm not sure what only playing one gacha has to do with anything.

53 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

They are one time only and then gone forever. 

Like Ice Dragon said, this isn't always the case. To add to the examples he gave, i hear Granblue Fantasy outright keeps some of the collabs they do. Players who join long after the collabs are over can still play the events via side stories and potentially get the collab characters they may have missed on.

Considering FEH is rerun city central, i can see collabs being rerun as part of Legendary Summon pools, especially if it's one involving another Nintendo IP.

Edited by Armagon
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40 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Not necessarily.

Fate/Grand Order reruns its collaboration characters not only during the rerun of the original event, but also on various other occasions, such as New Year's or n-million download celebrations.

Puzzles and Dragons, if I remember correctly, reran its original Monster Hunter X (Monster Hunter Generations in the West) collaboration content during the collaboration event with Monster Hunter XX (Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate).

Okay so occasionally there are reruns.  I assume licensing and permission is required.

19 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I'll admit, collab characters likely will still be reskins of OP units. However, the very nature of collab characters makes them standout so yeah, this will still be fresh air.

It's not unheard of though. Tales of Link, Fate/GO, Final Fantasy Brave Exvius and Puzzles&Dragons are all gacha games of established franchises that have done collaborations with other franchises. And those are just the ones i know of. So it's not going to feel unusual if FEH does it. And before you say that "people play FEH for FE", i'm sure people play the other games i mentioned for the same reason and yet as far as i know, they aren't opposed to collabs like FEH players are.

Nah, Dragalia's tame. Granblue is the real time sink. Though i'm not sure what only playing one gacha has to do with anything.

Like Ice Dragon said, this isn't always the case. To add to the examples he gave, i hear Granblue Fantasy outright keeps some of the collabs they do. Players who join long after the collabs are over can still play the events via side stories and potentially get the collab characters they may have missed on.

Considering FEH is rerun city central, i can see collabs being rerun as part of Legendary Summon pools, especially if it's one involving another Nintendo IP.

It won't be anymore fresh air than fire emblem characters making their first appearances.

What franchise is Puzzles and Dragons from?  It is just a very popular gacha game.  Also all those games have much much less characters than Fire Emblem where each entry has dozens and dozens of heroes.  

Playing one gacha means having no exposure to other gacha games, in this case Dragalia lost.  Meaning it would have zero appeal to these people in most cases.  The excitement of a collaboration is beloved characters from some other franchise or property that the player is familiar with and cares a lot about.  I quit SMT Dx2 recently but the last two collaborations were Bayonetta then Devil May Cry 5.  

 

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1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

(Dragalia is supposed to be an epic time sink from what I hear)

For daily quests you have:

  • 2 runs of Avenue to Fortune (easy enough to autobattle in five minutes).
  • 2 runs of Avenue to Power (easy enough to autobattle in seven minutes).
  • 2 runs of the day's Elemental Ruins (can be easy enough to autobattle in ten minutes).
  • 3 runs of Dragon Trials, which at the higher end are hard and require you attention.
  • 3 runs of Imperial Onslaught, which are also very challenging. 

And before I left, naturally having the stamina to do all this in one sitting was impossible. And you need all of these, since each provides resources for character progression in some way. You can play each of the dallies as much as you want any day, but after 2-3 runs, you stop getting bonus resources. Sometimes, the game for a few days does have either half stamina or double resources for a given daily I think.

All of this is before you play whatever special event is going on. Which will require yet more stamina (or Getherwings for co-op) to complete. And unlike FEH, getting a character from level 1 to max (80) with all nodes (stat and skill boosts) unlocked, or maxing a dragon, or a high end weapon, requires weeks of dedication. 

This was too much for me, and with FEH I don't go all the way either, which is quite light by comparison.

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13 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

For daily quests you have:

  • 2 runs of Avenue to Fortune (easy enough to autobattle in five minutes).
  • 2 runs of Avenue to Power (easy enough to autobattle in seven minutes).
  • 2 runs of the day's Elemental Ruins (can be easy enough to autobattle in ten minutes).
  • 3 runs of Dragon Trials, which at the higher end are hard and require you attention.
  • 3 runs of Imperial Onslaught, which are also very challenging. 

And before I left, naturally having the stamina to do all this in one sitting was impossible. And you need all of these, since each provides resources for character progression in some way. You can play each of the dallies as much as you want any day, but after 2-3 runs, you stop getting bonus resources. Sometimes, the game for a few days does have either half stamina or double resources for a given daily I think.

All of this is before you play whatever special event is going on. Which will require yet more stamina (or Getherwings for co-op) to complete. And unlike FEH, getting a character from level 1 to max (80) with all nodes (stat and skill boosts) unlocked, or maxing a dragon, or a high end weapon, requires weeks of dedication. 

This was too much for me, and with FEH I don't go all the way either, which is quite light by comparison.

That sounds awful!  A big workload for every day with special events that require more and taking forever to build up characters.  This is what I hate about most gacha games, and I'm glad Heroes largely avoids it.  

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Just because FE has hundreds of characters to call upon doesn't mean IS should make use of every last one unless if you seriously want them to inevitably start picking from the absolute bottom of a moldy, musty barrel. Personally, I'd gladly take a collab (even with a property I'm not familiar with like Dragalia) over blatant filler characters like about half the Archanean characters not in FEH Midia's jail squad, Ralf / Ralph, Garret, etc. Besides, I think it's rather obvious at this point that getting every last playable character from across the series into FEH was not and never was an objective for IS.

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30 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

That sounds awful!  A big workload for every day with special events that require more and taking forever to build up characters.  This is what I hate about most gacha games, and I'm glad Heroes largely avoids it.  

There are those I sometimes hear here that are disappointed by the lack of a grind in FEH. Since there is no way to show your dedication for a certain character, other than Dragonflowers right now, or Skill Inheritance or merges, both of which require gacha.

For DL, you don't need directly need gacha to show your passion for say Randal with the exception of getting the tens of thousands of Eldwater (your main source is summoning duplicate characters, and it is not a lot per double) to up their rarity and fully unlock the co-op skill. And if you did go through everything to get him to 80, all nodes unlocked, with a 5* third-tier Wind-elemental Axe, then you and everyone else can clearly see by virtue of the massive grind that you love them. 

-Not that I support this. I don't at all. I'm just relaying the contrary opinion.

Although a non-gacha way of learning skills with a grindable resource would be fine for me in FEH. I'm not advocating Crystals, Eldwater, Blessed Water, Dragonfruit, Monster Drops, Elemental Orbs, Gold, Dragon Essences (whatever they are called), Medals, Weapon Certificates, Glittering Sand, and whatever else. Just an alternative way to learn skills for a relatively slight grind. -This could be avoided if IS did a mass demote including some good skills dropping, or a separate influx of new 3* or 4* characters with such skills.

 

18 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Personally, I'd gladly take a collab (even with a property I'm not familiar with like Dragalia) over blatant filler characters like about half the Archanean characters not in FEH Midia's jail squad, Ralf / Ralph, Garret, etc. Besides, I think it's rather obvious at this point that getting every last playable character from across the series into FEH was not and never was an objective for IS.

I understand your argument, do we realistically need a character whose only line is:

Kein

Kein:
“I can’t…die…without…”

?

Although I'd think none of us would have qualms if they out of the blue released this guy with only a death quote as a 3* character with some invented characterization to be replaced wholesale in Thracia 776 Remake. I do want everyone in FEH as a matter of principle however.

And about your claim, if I had to make a list of "Archaneans who might be left stranded on a sandbar", let me see how big it'd be, I'm curious:

Spoiler
  1. Warren
  2. Bord
  3. Cord
  4. Jubelo (the prince of Grust, but a shota thinner than dust)
  5. Castor (you might have been spared if you told us your sister had died after desperately going into prostitution, as opposed to Kaga having to do it)
  6. Samuel
  7. Rickard
  8. Caesar 
  9. Radd
  10. Roger
  11. Jake (haunt Anna for divorcing you, please)
  12. Beck
  13. Mathis
  14. Arran
  15. Etzel (being the child of Lucius and Canas is not enough)
  16. Wendell
  17. Boah
  18. Bantu
  19. Dice (your daughter is spared by her assets, even if you share facets)
  20. Horace
  21. Roberto
  22. Belf
  23. Reiden
  24. Dolph
  25. Macellan
  26. Tomas
  27. Samson
  28. Sedgar
  29. Roshea
  30. Vyland
  31. Frost
  32. Ymir
  33. Broken Lance, Broken Soul, Exploding Body (I pity him)

You could contest this and add or drop some. Now who have I spared is the better question to ask:

  1. Coyote
  2. M!Kris
  3. F!Kris
  4. Nyna
  5. Julian
  6. Lena
  7. Elice
  8. Yuliya
  9. Arlen (GHB potential)
  10. Cecil
  11. Ryan
  12. Marisha
  13. Ratsel Feinschmecker (Sirius)
  14. Frey
  15. Norne
  16. Malice
  17. Xane
  18. Nagi
  19. Midia
  20. Astram (wouldn't be bad for a GHB, but which place to use: outside the Fane of Raman, in Khadein, or in Castle Altea?)
  21. Earth Dragon Medeus
  22. Shadow Dragon Medeus
  23. Eremiya

So I spared less than I condemned, not to say I hate anyone I sentenced to not-getting-in. I don't, I just being realistic with a hint of favoritism and no regards to FEH gameplay.

The thing is, we're nowhere near getting to the bottom of that barrel yet. 

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3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

There are those I sometimes hear here that are disappointed by the lack of a grind in FEH. Since there is no way to show your dedication for a certain character, other than Dragonflowers right now, or Skill Inheritance or merges, both of which require gacha.

For DL, you don't need directly need gacha to show your passion for say Randal with the exception of getting the tens of thousands of Eldwater (your main source is summoning duplicate characters, and it is not a lot per double) to up their rarity and fully unlock the co-op skill. And if you did go through everything to get him to 80, all nodes unlocked, with a 5* third-tier Wind-elemental Axe, then you and everyone else can clearly see by virtue of the massive grind that you love them. 

-Not that I support this. I don't at all. I'm just relaying the contrary opinion.

Although a non-gacha way of learning skills with a grindable resource would be fine for me in FEH. I'm not advocating Crystals, Eldwater, Blessed Water, Dragonfruit, Monster Drops, Elemental Orbs, Gold, Dragon Essences (whatever they are called), Medals, Weapon Certificates, Glittering Sand, and whatever else. Just an alternative way to learn skills for a relatively slight grind. -This could be avoided if IS did a mass demote including some good skills dropping, or a separate influx of new 3* or 4* characters with such skills.

 

I understand your argument, do we realistically need a character whose only line is:

Kein

Kein:
“I can’t…die…without…”

?

Although I'd think none of us would have qualms if they out of the blue released this guy with only a death quote as a 3* character with some invented characterization to be replaced wholesale in Thracia 776 Remake. I do want everyone in FEH as a matter of principle however.

And about your claim, if I had to make a list of "Archaneans who might be left stranded on a sandbar", let me see how big it'd be, I'm curious:

  Reveal hidden contents
  1. Warren
  2. Bord
  3. Cord
  4. Jubelo (the prince of Grust, but a shota thinner than dust)
  5. Castor (you might have been spared if you told us your sister had died after desperately going into prostitution, as opposed to Kaga having to do it)
  6. Samuel
  7. Rickard
  8. Caesar 
  9. Radd
  10. Roger
  11. Jake (haunt Anna for divorcing you, please)
  12. Beck
  13. Mathis
  14. Arran
  15. Etzel (being the child of Lucius and Canas is not enough)
  16. Wendell
  17. Boah
  18. Bantu
  19. Dice (your daughter is spared by her assets, even if you share facets)
  20. Horace
  21. Roberto
  22. Belf
  23. Reiden
  24. Dolph
  25. Macellan
  26. Tomas
  27. Samson
  28. Sedgar
  29. Roshea
  30. Vyland
  31. Frost
  32. Ymir
  33. Broken Lance, Broken Soul, Exploding Body (I pity him)

You could contest this and add or drop some. Now who have I spared is the better question to ask:

  1. Coyote
  2. M!Kris
  3. F!Kris
  4. Nyna
  5. Julian
  6. Lena
  7. Elice
  8. Yuliya
  9. Arlen (GHB potential)
  10. Cecil
  11. Ryan
  12. Marisha
  13. Ratsel Feinschmecker (Sirius)
  14. Frey
  15. Norne
  16. Malice
  17. Xane
  18. Nagi
  19. Midia
  20. Astram (wouldn't be bad for a GHB, but which place to use: outside the Fane of Raman, in Khadein, or in Castle Altea?)
  21. Earth Dragon Medeus
  22. Shadow Dragon Medeus
  23. Eremiya

So I spared less than I condemned, not to say I hate anyone I sentenced to not-getting-in. I don't, I just being realistic with a hint of favoritism and no regards to FEH gameplay.

The thing is, we're nowhere near getting to the bottom of that barrel yet. 

I mean dragonflowers is quite a grind, and then there are all the chain challenges, squad assaults, hero merit for feathers.  I think there is enough to satisfy grinders without forcing non grinders to grind or miss out big time like many gacha games.  I think the balance is perfect.  Also must say I've always hated grinding.  One could dig and dig and dig with a shovel and that would be the same thing, a repetitive, mindless task except digging would be good exercise and pay money.  

I agree we aren't close at all, not even half way there.  The bottom of barrel argument is complete BS and mostly brought up by Fates/Awakening players who haven't played the other games.  Oh most Fates/Awakening characters are in, so now there is only bottom of the barrel left.  Such ignorance and arrogance.

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5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

There are those I sometimes hear here that are disappointed by the lack of a grind in FEH.

The problem is not the "lack of grind" in Heroes, it's the lack of the option to grind. The former I think has a slightly different connotation in general usage, generally meaning the "lack of the necessity to grind".

Of the five or six resources of any real value in the game, only one of them actually has the option to grind for it. Every other meaningful resource in the game is purely time gated, which I find honestly ridiculous.

Even when I want to play this game and have the time to sit down and focus on it, there's simply nothing for me to do because none of the resources I want are obtainable through time investment.

 

2 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I mean dragonflowers is quite a grind, and then there are all the chain challenges, squad assaults, hero merit for feathers.  I think there is enough to satisfy grinders without forcing non grinders to grind or miss out big time like many gacha games.  I think the balance is perfect.

The problem is that once you've run out, you're still stuck.

This game still lacks a means of acquiring most resources limited only by your Stamina. Setting goals in this game means waiting for resources to fall into your hands, not going out and getting them yourself.

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2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The problem is not the "lack of grind" in Heroes, it's the lack of the option to grind. The former I think has a slightly different connotation in general usage, generally meaning the "lack of the necessity to grind".

Of the five or six resources of any real value in the game, only one of them actually has the option to grind for it. Every other meaningful resource in the game is purely time gated, which I find honestly ridiculous.

Even when I want to play this game and have the time to sit down and focus on it, there's simply nothing for me to do because none of the resources I want are obtainable through time investment.

 

The problem is that once you've run out, you're still stuck.

This game still lacks a means of acquiring most resources limited only by your Stamina. Setting goals in this game means waiting for resources to fall into your hands, not going out and getting them yourself.

So what would you propose?  The way it is now, one can grind SP, levels, feathers (hero merit), badges, crystals.  One can also grind in GC and TT+ when those modes are up for rank and rewards.  This seems to fit the benefit of grinding without punishing people too harshly for not grinding.  Also wouldn't it be much better if there was something fun and non repetitive as a way to get other resources rather than repetitive and tedious?  

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45 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I assume licensing and permission is required.

Yes though if the IPs are shared, it'd be a lot easier. For example, it'd be a lot easier for FEH to collab with a Nintendo IP than Fate/GO, for instance.

46 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

What franchise is Puzzles and Dragons from?  It is just a very popular gacha game.

You're right, i was under the impression that it was an established series because of that one 3DS crossover with Mario. My bad.

47 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Also all those games have much much less characters than Fire Emblem where each entry has dozens and dozens of heroes.  

Final Fantasy has roughly 756 characters and that's not counting the spin-offs, movies and MMOs and other works. Fire Emblem has roughly around that number. I don't know how many characters there are in Tales because Tales wikis are wack but i imagine it's not that far off. Fate/GO probably has less but still probably a lot. Actually, it probably has more. Fate is bigger than most people realize. So this point is moot because if those games can have hundreds of characters to choose from and still make room for collabs, so can FEH.

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

Playing one gacha means having no exposure to other gacha games, in this case Dragalia lost.  Meaning it would have zero appeal to these people in most cases.

This suggests the collabs always have to be with other gachas, which isn't always the case. Granblue did a collab with Persona 5. And even if people only play one gacha, FEH doing one with another collab could get people to show interest, if they're open to it.

14 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

The bottom of barrel argument is complete BS and mostly brought up by Fates/Awakening players who haven't played the other games.  Oh most Fates/Awakening characters are in, so now there is only bottom of the barrel left.  Such ignorance and arrogance.

Do you have any proof to back up your claim? Because this is quite the baseless accusation.

 

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30 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The thing is, we're nowhere near getting to the bottom of that barrel yet. 

Yes, I know we aren't. What I was simply saying was that we would eventually end up there if the "everyone deserves to be in" crowd had their way.

Oh and just so it's on record, the only characters I consider bottom of the barrel are the filler characters with little to no characterization that are just there to pad out a given game's playable roster so again, a good chunk of Archanea's cast. A character isn't bottom of the barrel to me if they didn't originate in the 3DS era (which wasn't where I started with FE anyways).

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46 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I mean dragonflowers is quite a grind, and then there are all the chain challenges, squad assaults, hero merit for feathers.  I think there is enough to satisfy grinders without forcing non grinders to grind or miss out big time like many gacha games.  I think the balance is perfect.  Also must say I've always hated grinding.  One could dig and dig and dig with a shovel and that would be the same thing, a repetitive, mindless task except digging would be good exercise and pay money.  

 

Admittedly I still haven't touched a lot of FEH stuff, which given my late start means I have a real backlog to do. So I haven't felt that entirely. And I do dislike excessive grinding myself.

 

39 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The problem is not the "lack of grind" in Heroes, it's the lack of the option to grind. The former I think has a slightly different connotation in general usage, generally meaning the "lack of the necessity to grind".

Of the five or six resources of any real value in the game, only one of them actually has the option to grind for it. Every other meaningful resource in the game is purely time gated, which I find honestly ridiculous.

Even when I want to play this game and have the time to sit down and focus on it, there's simply nothing for me to do because none of the resources I want are obtainable through time investment.

Thank you for the clarification. It makes sense.

But if a resource becomes grindable, hopefully IS doesn't scale content difficulty/accessibility in accordance with the expectation of a massive life-draining grind.

 

46 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I agree we aren't close at all, not even half way there.  The bottom of barrel argument is complete BS and mostly brought up by Fates/Awakening players who haven't played the other games.  Oh most Fates/Awakening characters are in, so now there is only bottom of the barrel left. 

If you ignore the Cipher Quartet, then SoV has also going off of playable characters alone has broken 50% representation, 58.82% to be precise (add Cipher and it is still 52%). Admittedly, this is because this game has a small roster, 34 sans Cipher (20 in), assisted by sharing the Whitewings with Archanea. Also helping was that double banner + double TT, because of that and the Whitewings, in non-alt PCs, SoV still has more characters in than Tellius (17).

But yes, on playables in their canon forms (so no Charlotte or Noire) alone, SoV, Fates (45/69, or 65.22%), and Awakening (29/51, or 56.82%), have 50% or more in playable character representation. Blazing Blade could hit 50% with a 4 character banner (it'd then be at 23/44), and arguably Gen 1 Genealogy is at 50% (it stands at 11/24 sans Finn right now (and Finn does look younger in Gen 1 than Gen 2 and Thracia, so one might not count him)). But no other games could do that.

This game in a few months will be 2 1/2 years old, gachas I think have ~5 year lifespan. Being sub-50% in PC rep for most games is a bit saddening.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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16 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

So what would you propose?  The way it is now, one can grind SP, levels, feathers (hero merit), badges, crystals.  One can also grind in GC and TT+ when those modes are up for rank and rewards.  This seems to fit the benefit of grinding without punishing people too harshly for not grinding.  Also wouldn't it be much better if there was something fun and non repetitive as a way to get other resources rather than repetitive and tedious?  

SP is only necessary for learning skills and generally doesn't take a lot of time with the tools we currently have. Levels cap at 40, which takes a grand total of 15 minutes. Badges are worthless. Crystals are even more worthless because leveling up a unit takes 15 minutes.

Grand Conquest has a limit to how often you are able to play due to a limited supply of exclusive Stamina. Tempest Trials ranking rewards are too little for the effort in my opinion, and macro auto-battle doesn't count as grinding (or auto-battle in general). Tempest Trials scoring rewards don't require grinding since you only need to do 3 runs a day each day to get them all.

I don't know how you could consider the addition of grinding mechanics to punish players that do not grind. Provided that we continue to receive resources at the rate we currently do, I think that is enough to keep a typical player occupied. Furthermore, the acquisition of resources in this game doesn't increase the player's power cap, it increases the player's number of options. A player who has built up 400 units in their barracks is not at a game-breaking advantage compared to a player who has built up 50 (provided each player invests the same amount of resources per unit).

Edited by Ice Dragon
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1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ratsel Feinschmecker (Sirius)

Lmao, that's so accurate. Anyway, on to actual discussion content.

 

Edit: whoa, jesus, didn't realize I wrote an essay. Sorry everyone. I made the start of each section bold, so if you only care about one part, just read that.

 

About grinding in Dragalia and FEH: While Dragalia might have a lot of stuff available to grind, I find it infinitely more appealing in that than FEH's grind, which is utterly nonexistent. Hell, the only time I might be bothered to actually expend all my natural Stamina regularly is during TT and Forging 007 Bonds, and that's not even including my 600+ Stamina Potions.

On Dragalia, I might not have enough Stamina to do all the daily quests in one sitting (not counting High Dragon Trials, because f those beasts), but I have enough to do almost everything in 2 brief sittings, which mostly consist of me popping on autobattle and checking back in every 2-3 minutes for about 15 minutes (yes, I can autobattle most Dragon Trials and IO Master). And that assumes I don't use my daily free 3 skip tickets (immediately complete a quest you've already fully cleared, some exceptions apply). So I can start it up when I wake up and am doing morning stuff like breakfast, and check back in when taking my post-class break in the evening. If I'm feeling like putting in effort, I have some more stamina available at night, and I can always play Co-Op with people to clear quests too.

 

About dragons in DL: yeah, we definitely have some waifugons (and even a couple husbandogons now), but many of the dragons are still non-human. Its also important to note that "dragon" is essentially "a being with excessive supreme power", usually somehow mythical in the real world, such as Nidhogg, Prometheus, or Nyarlathotep. If we get a collab dragon, its almost certainly going to be an actual manakete or dragon. We might go as far as a "King Marth" dragon, but even that is highly unlikely. There's no real fear of getting Camilla or the like as a dragon, though we must continue offering up fervent prayers that she doesn't get chosen for a character.

 

About FEH running out of characters: Now, I'll admit that I haven't played FEs 3/12, 4, 5, or finished 6, but I imagine that they're fairly similar to the rest of the FE games in that they have a few big characters, a scattering of popular side characters, and a whole bunch of randoms. I don't think its fair that Thracia hasn't gotten a banner since 1945, and I agree that it and its fellow actually neglected games should get more characters, but let's be realistic: FEH will never have every FE character, especially from a title like Thracia. And, imo, that's the way it should be.

Do I enjoy Sain, Kent, Oswin, and Erk? Of course; they're great fun for their reasons in FE7. Would I be happy if they were added? Naturally. Are they likely to be? Probably not, unless we get Elibe Echoes out and they're added to help hype up stuff. I could be wrong, though. Do characters like Meg, Fiona, and Kishuna deserve a place in FEH? Well, if we're adding every FE character, then yes, but do they really? Sorry if any of those three are your waifu (Kishuna included). First, consider all the important people that haven't gotten in yet. Second, consider the powercreep; Meg should not be stronger than the Black Knight or Zephiel, but she would be.

Fortunately, we most likely won't have to deal with anything that drastic. IS can't (yet) be bothered to add super minor characters, even from Fates (Rinkah, Reina, Scarlet, etc), so they aren't going to suddenly be releasing unimportant RD charas. But even things like Lugh the random magic kid having higher stat totals than Julia, the combination of two powerful lineages and wielder of plot armor tome A, annoys me already, and its only going to get worse. As side characters get added, they'll need to be powercrept, pushing the canonically powerful plot-central/main characters farther and farther down. 

 

About a Collab taking over a New Heroes banner: well, yes, IS seems mildly allergic to actually releasing new characters and story content, and their only real reason is wanting to print seasonal unit money. Its not as if FEH's plotline takes a long time to write, or it takes two months to write all 20 lines of dialogue a given unit has. If they wanted to release more new characters, they could easily redistribute resources spent on seasonals to doing new units. But they don't seem to.

I've no idea who mentioned it, but someone here mentioned the hot springs banner taking over a new hero banner. If that's the case, then I suppose its technically possible that a collab banner would replace a New Heroes banner. But on the same line of thought, if a New Hero banner is already in danger of being usurped, then they could just as easily do it with a normal seasonal banner, like they've done before.

I don't want to see new heroes be lost any more than everyone else. But I have no problems with potential Lyn alt 25 and her 3 seasonal banner companions being discarded and changed to a collab instead. Whatever new hero banner we were going to lose would still be lost, but like I said, IS doesn't seem to mind that much.

Edited by alatartheblue42
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31 minutes ago, alatartheblue42 said:

And that assumes I don't use my daily free 3 skip tickets (immediately complete a quest you've already fully cleared, some exceptions apply).

I actually forgot Skip Tickets were a thing. Very good for time, if not so much stamina. I also left out mention of how, for a while in the beginning, frequent player levelups will provide full stamina refills, even if they level off in occurrence eventually.

 

31 minutes ago, alatartheblue42 said:

(yes, I can autobattle most Dragon Trials and IO Master)

Oh. That must have taken quite some time to achieve. 

 

31 minutes ago, alatartheblue42 said:

Sorry if any of those three are your waifu (Kishuna included)

He is the first FE character we got to see totally naked. (Or maybe he isn't.):

CG37.png

A little scrawny, but Nergal looks absolutely enthralled.

 

31 minutes ago, alatartheblue42 said:

Meg should not be stronger than the Black Knight or Zephiel, but she would be.

 

Assuming they don't flub the Meg up and give her a weird statline with low Atk and Def, and high Spd and Res. They might, it's Meg.:P:

 

31 minutes ago, alatartheblue42 said:

But even things like Lugh the random magic kid having higher stat totals than Julia, the combination of two powerful lineages and wielder of plot armor tome A, annoys me already, and its only going to get worse. As side characters get added, they'll need to be powercrept, pushing the canonically powerful plot-central/main characters farther and farther down. 

I understand the criticism. Alts of these older characters (Marth and Roy have gotten them for instance) is an option, if not the most elegant or lasting one to put it nicely.

This is also the byproduct of IS's approach to FEH, had they reserved some temptingly popular characters and instituted some plebeians as automatic 3* or 4* units, this issue could have been reduced.

At least in practice, if not in principle, what is a few extra points of BST or redistributed BST? Unless they're all dumped in Spd or you are playing particularly difficult PvE, or PvP content, it shouldn't make much of a functional difference.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

There are those I sometimes hear here that are disappointed by the lack of a grind in FEH. Since there is no way to show your dedication for a certain character, other than Dragonflowers right now, or Skill Inheritance or merges, both of which require gacha.

  Reveal hidden contents
  1. Warren
  2. Bord
  3. Cord
  4. Jubelo (the prince of Grust, but a shota thinner than dust)
  5. Castor (you might have been spared if you told us your sister had died after desperately going into prostitution, as opposed to Kaga having to do it)
  6. Samuel
  7. Rickard
  8. Caesar 
  9. Radd
  10. Roger
  11. Jake (haunt Anna for divorcing you, please)
  12. Beck
  13. Mathis
  14. Arran
  15. Etzel (being the child of Lucius and Canas is not enough)
  16. Wendell
  17. Boah
  18. Bantu
  19. Dice (your daughter is spared by her assets, even if you share facets)
  20. Horace
  21. Roberto
  22. Belf
  23. Reiden
  24. Dolph
  25. Macellan
  26. Tomas
  27. Samson
  28. Sedgar
  29. Roshea
  30. Vyland
  31. Frost
  32. Ymir
  33. Broken Lance, Broken Soul, Exploding Body (I pity him)

You could contest this and add or drop some. Now who have I spared is the better question to ask:

  1. Coyote
  2. M!Kris
  3. F!Kris
  4. Nyna
  5. Julian
  6. Lena
  7. Elice
  8. Yuliya
  9. Arlen (GHB potential)
  10. Cecil
  11. Ryan
  12. Marisha
  13. Ratsel Feinschmecker (Sirius)
  14. Frey
  15. Norne
  16. Malice
  17. Xane
  18. Nagi
  19. Midia
  20. Astram (wouldn't be bad for a GHB, but which place to use: outside the Fane of Raman, in Khadein, or in Castle Altea?)
  21. Earth Dragon Medeus
  22. Shadow Dragon Medeus
  23. Eremiya

So I spared less than I condemned, not to say I hate anyone I sentenced to not-getting-in. I don't, I just being realistic with a hint of favoritism and no regards to FEH gameplay.

This is my main problem with FEH. Everything important requires you play the gacha. You can't play to obtain materials to forge skills and weapons. There's no weapon/skill inventory system where you can even store such things and apply them to characters in the future.

 

So many premium skills are locked to 5* units. You can spend 250+ Orbs on trying to get them and you still won't get that Bold Fighter for your Effie. But you will probably get plenty of what you do not want, like more Vengeful Fighter fodder and more Julia merges, despite sniping blue for that Hardin. It's ridiculous that the gacha system is the only gateway to meaningful upgrades to your existing characters.

It's such a shit system, sometimes I wonder why I still bother playing. It's only because I'm a Fire Emblem fan that I do. Yes, I'm salty.

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7 hours ago, alatartheblue42 said:

 Do characters like Meg, Fiona, and Kishuna deserve a place in FEH? Well, if we're adding every FE character, then yes, but do they really? Sorry if any of those three are your waifu (Kishuna included).

As one of the biggest (and probably only) advocate for Kishuna, it hurts to see that the one time his existence is remembered is to say that he shouldn't be added. Give me best waifu Kishuna already IS!

 

7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

He is the first FE character we got to see totally naked. (Or maybe he isn't.):

CG37.png

A little scrawny, but Nergal looks absolutely enthralled.

Look IS. All this fanservice you could be making zillions with.

 

1 hour ago, Raven said:

It's such a shit system, sometimes I wonder why I still bother playing. It's only because I'm a Fire Emblem fan that I do. Yes, I'm salty.

Honestly same. The only reason I've endured for so long is because it's Fire Emblem and I know it's the only way to get extra enjoyment of some of my favorite characters because let's be real, characters like Florina, Matthew, Fir, Panne, Kliff, Amelia, etc, aren't likely to ever appear again outside of their base game even in spin-offs or collaborations so I'm stuck with this until it dies or another more fulfilling FE centered game comes along.

Edited by NegativeExponents-
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People are saying they don't want the mouldy, bottom of the barrel characters... I don't see any character like that in FE :/ 

When FEH first became a thing, I became excited as I imagined more characterisation for characters like Kein and his friends, or the sable knights, or others, that didn't have much. Heck, with Roderick's banner, I had a whole lot of hope because who could imagine them getting that much spotlight?

I originally thought they'd add the more popular characters as 5* and then those others as 3*. It would be nice to actually hear and see them. I'm a fan of all the games, so hearing people saying so many just aren't worth it because of the way they're being released is sad to me. I would forever take Kein and Alba over and non-FE character in this game. I like their designs, and apparently they have some personality from one of the artbooks or something. It'd be nice to see that. 

All of Ninty's main mascots have their own games and their own characterisations. They don't need to be in FEH and it would kill FEH a lot for me. Again, not sure if I'd quit but that might be the time when I finally give it serious consideration. Basically telling me that the characters I vote for as a fan don't really matter, they'd much rather have Link or Mario instead, or the Dragalia Lost characters... who have their own game and time to shine and don't need this one. Thinking of some random character not getting in over Kent just feels so rotten and wrong to me. This game already feels like it's turning more and more to money grabbing, and I get they have to make money, but this would be like they've finally given up on it completely. 

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3 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

People are saying they don't want the mouldy, bottom of the barrel characters... I don't see any character like that in FE :/ 

When FEH first became a thing, I became excited as I imagined more characterisation for characters like Kein and his friends, or the sable knights, or others, that didn't have much. Heck, with Roderick's banner, I had a whole lot of hope because who could imagine them getting that much spotlight?

I originally thought they'd add the more popular characters as 5* and then those others as 3*. It would be nice to actually hear and see them. I'm a fan of all the games, so hearing people saying so many just aren't worth it because of the way they're being released is sad to me. I would forever take Kein and Alba over and non-FE character in this game. I like their designs, and apparently they have some personality from one of the artbooks or something. It'd be nice to see that. 

All of Ninty's main mascots have their own games and their own characterisations. They don't need to be in FEH and it would kill FEH a lot for me. Again, not sure if I'd quit but that might be the time when I finally give it serious consideration. Basically telling me that the characters I vote for as a fan don't really matter, they'd much rather have Link or Mario instead, or the Dragalia Lost characters... who have their own game and time to shine and don't need this one. Thinking of some random character not getting in over Kent just feels so rotten and wrong to me. This game already feels like it's turning more and more to money grabbing, and I get they have to make money, but this would be like they've finally given up on it completely. 

It's amazing how much I agree and disagree with you at the same time.

I too think that there is no such thing as a bottom of the barrel character (except Brigand Boss, screw that guy) and even if there was, getting in FEH would be the perfect occation to give them some characterization. Every single character deserves a spot.

But at the same time I don't agree at all with your melodramatic and pessimistic views about crossovers.

If they put Mario, Bowser, Peach and Yoshi on a banner, they aren't telling you that your votes don't matter and the remaining characters from various games are complete sh*t. They are still going to put said remaining characters on the next banner starting in a couple of weeks. Collaborations aren't done on a whim, they are difficult. Even with all the optimism in the world I doubt we could have more than one collab per year in FEH. A drop in the ocean, compared with how many banners we will get in said year. And being so negative about it makes you look like a killjoy. Originally, crossover and collaborations where born to please the fans, as a sort of gift from the developers, the ultimate fanservice.

To see such a negative reaction from the same fans that should be pleased saddens my heart.

And I strongly disagree with the notion that a collab means they have given up, they are going under, they bo longer have faith in their own property. Because if that was the case, how come games that are extremely successful and have lots of other stuff to add are doing collaborations at all? Did GBF do that Persona 5 crossover because the game was dying? I don't think so.

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4 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

People are saying they don't want the mouldy, bottom of the barrel characters... I don't see any character like that in FE :/ 

Look me dead in the eyes and try to convince me that Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum in armor knight form are actually worth the effort of putting into this game and that they wouldn't just be filler that no one would give a shit about in this game too. I think you'll find it outright impossible.

While I kinda wish I could see things like this, I simply can't be paid enough money to give the slightest shit about Dolph, Macellan, and all of Archanea's other worthless filler like Kris. Relying on characters like them would be what truly reeks of desperation.

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18 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

SP is only necessary for learning skills and generally doesn't take a lot of time with the tools we currently have. Levels cap at 40, which takes a grand total of 15 minutes. Badges are worthless. Crystals are even more worthless because leveling up a unit takes 15 minutes.

Grand Conquest has a limit to how often you are able to play due to a limited supply of exclusive Stamina. Tempest Trials ranking rewards are too little for the effort in my opinion, and macro auto-battle doesn't count as grinding (or auto-battle in general). Tempest Trials scoring rewards don't require grinding since you only need to do 3 runs a day each day to get them all.

I don't know how you could consider the addition of grinding mechanics to punish players that do not grind. Provided that we continue to receive resources at the rate we currently do, I think that is enough to keep a typical player occupied. Furthermore, the acquisition of resources in this game doesn't increase the player's power cap, it increases the player's number of options. A player who has built up 400 units in their barracks is not at a game-breaking advantage compared to a player who has built up 50 (provided each player invests the same amount of resources per unit).

Let's say you could grind some new mode fro 10 orbs a day, that would be 300 orbs a month if done daily essentially letting players who do this have 2x of the most important resource in the game.  In addition though of course whales always have this advantage, in PVP there would be a massive advantage for grinders since they will have pulled twice as many units/skills on average.  Many time sink games or games with daily quests do punish players who don't grind do those quests, they fall way behind the other players that do.  It puts immense pressure on every player to do these grinding daily quests to keep up.  In addition as Interdimensional Observer was saying usually these games scale content assuming everyone has done all the 'free' stuff available.  

I wouldn't be opposed to grinding for exclusive accessories, palette swaps, castle decorations or other such things.  However grinding for major competitive advantage would be a massive turn off.  Heroes is great cause it doesn't force that onto players like other gacha games do.  If you hate grinding you can still enjoy Heroes and not be leap frogged by 99% of the playerbase.  

I also just don't understand why people want to grind so much, new fun modes?  Yeah sure, but why waste time with repetitive tasks?  If one hasn't played all the games in the FE series, play those.  Or there are many other strategy games or other kinds of games to enjoy.  

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21 hours ago, Armagon said:

 

Nah, Dragalia's tame. Granblue is the real time sink. Though i'm not sure what only playing one gacha has to do with anything.

 

To a point. DL is kinda time consuming at first, as you’re stuck with low level quests, but play a little daily, and before you notice, you won’t have problems with the events masters

 

I can’t see a problem with collabs, in fact, I think FEH is taking too long to make one, as Smash Ultimate was the perfect opportunity to do so. We know DL is getting a FEH crossover content, but we have yet to see the inverse. Let’s assume they’ll do so soon. I personally like it, despite DL characters being bland, it’ll be pretty fun to have them in FEH, and viceversa. That’s it, assuming they aren’t a case of “people from another world” stuff, but instead the same characters, but adapted on the lore of the games they are guests in

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