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Dsharp

Ideas for an FE-inspired game #1) What if you could only double on your turn?

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I'm creating an FE-inspired game and wanted to spark some discussion on mechanics I may implement.

Starting simple today: What if both player and enemy units could only double attack on their respective phases? Assume they still need some amount of speed to do so. It makes sense intuitively to me that you'd only be able to double if you took initiative. If put on the back foot by a foe who gets the first attack, of course you'd only manage one attack in response.

What effects would this have on gameplay? Here are my arguments:

1) This change puts emphasis on player phase. It's more important to be more active now, clearing out enemies on your turn.
2) At the same time, it doesn't make enemy phase entirely worthless. SRPGs without countering at all tend to be very slow. I think allowing one counter attack will keep the pace up, but you'll rarely be outright killing foes with a single counterblow. 
3) This serves as a direct nerf to speed. It's still ridiculously useful (you need it to double), but now you only double a fraction of the time you would have been able to.
4) Armor knights, as a result, are now the premier enemy phase units. They tank best, and deal more return damage in a single blow than any other unit.
5) Enemy placement needs to be deliberate. I can't just spam enemies on a map and expect players to mop them all up on enemy phase. 

Similar alternatives:

1) The speed threshold for doubling changes based on who initiates. You may only need 3 more attack to double when you initiate, but when that same enemy attacks you on their turn, you need 6 to double.
2) The doubling threshold remains the same, but the initiating unit gains a speed bonus. This could create situations where units of comparable speed can double each other, but only on their respective turns. 

I prefer my original concept over the alternatives, because I believe the latter 2 ideas, while interesting, still lead to a meta where speed is too important – perhaps even more important, because of the higher requirements for doubling on enemy phase (alternative 1) and guaranteeing you avoid being doubled (alternative 2). But what do you think? Do you like any of these ideas? What benefits or challenges do you foresee in a game implementing these concepts? 

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43 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Sounds intriguing.  I'd be willing to give it a try.

What software are you using to make this game?

SRPG Studio. If it's good enough for Kaga, it's good enough for me!

 

EDIT: Is there a post limit for new users? I can't seem to reply any further. I don't remember seeing any limitations mentioned in the rules, but I very well may have missed something. 

Edited by Dsharp

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1 minute ago, Dsharp said:

SRPG Studio. If it's good enough for Kaga, it's good enough for me!

Good luck to you, brother in arms.  If you haven't already, check out the /r/SRPGStudio Discord server if you need help with anything or want to see what other people are cooking up.

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That's a concept I've thought about too! It's probably the most clear-cut solution to shifting the game's focus to player phase. Although, I also imagined a skill a la FE4 Pursuit or FEH Quick Riposte that lets units with it double on enemy phase.

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1 hour ago, X-Naut said:

That's a concept I've thought about too! It's probably the most clear-cut solution to shifting the game's focus to player phase. Although, I also imagined a skill a la FE4 Pursuit or FEH Quick Riposte that lets units with it double on enemy phase.

Maybe even make an enemy-only skill on bosses that is basically Quick Riposte 4 (>=60% HP than >=70%), allowing them to double anyway. On the other hand, this skill to be used by playable units must abide by the speed rules.

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I've seen a few hacks where this idea was used. Namely Fire RMNblem, (https://rpgmaker.net/games/9862/), and the PC Gaiden remake. It works somewhat well, but both of them are kinda easy to cheese in other ways, so maybe they aren't the best, but I recommend you play them so you can see it in action.

 

(here are the files directly if you don't want to go to that page https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1ta5P1sPATZWlpaejZ1MGJnZE0/view)

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14 hours ago, Dsharp said:

They tank best, and deal more return damage in a single blow than any other unit.

NAH that's Warrior :P And plus it depends on the unit individually really. 

Great idea though.

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On 4/2/2019 at 9:40 AM, X-Naut said:

That's a concept I've thought about too! It's probably the most clear-cut solution to shifting the game's focus to player phase. Although, I also imagined a skill a la FE4 Pursuit or FEH Quick Riposte that lets units with it double on enemy phase.

Already on it. Not sure if it'll be an unconditional skill or something that requires some sort of activation, but it'll probably exist.

 

On 4/2/2019 at 12:16 PM, Azure in a Roundabout said:

Maybe even make an enemy-only skill on bosses that is basically Quick Riposte 4 (>=60% HP than >=70%), allowing them to double anyway. On the other hand, this skill to be used by playable units must abide by the speed rules.

Probably not, at least not for most bosses. I'm not a fan of the way FE handles bosses, so I'm trying to focus on other objectives with only a few story-related boss encounters that will hopefully be more engaging than "Local man with big stats sits on throne".

 

19 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

NAH that's Warrior :P And plus it depends on the unit individually really. 

Great idea though.

TBF, the warrior probably does retaliate harder much of the time. But I'm also working on redistributing ranged weapons, and I'm pretty confident right now that my knight's gonna end up with 1-2 range, while my Warrior/Berserker will be stuck at 1.

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I remember playing the same Gaiden fan-remake that @DarthR0xas linked, where you could only double on your turn. It was a unique idea, but I can't say it's game-changing in any way. Sure, it means that the enemy phase is less powerful, and that you can to abuse doubling in the player phase to take out a dangerous opponent, but I didn't change my overall strategy of how I approached a level at all.

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