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Will Genealogy of the Holy War be the next remake?


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Will Genealogy of the holy war be the next remake?  

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  1. 1. Will Genealogy of the holy war be the next remake?



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5 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Making such a guarantee on what people who don't like FE4 on SF?

I never guaranteed shit, i merely made statements based on observations. Oh and before you bring this up

50 minutes ago, Armagon said:

i guarantee most casuals would not enjoy FE4 the way it is right now.

this is referring to people outside of SF. Most casuals are not part of SF.

6 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Most casuals?

Most casuals were pretty skeptical on Echoes because it didn't have the familiar gameplay of Awakening and Fates (and it didn't help that the marketing was pretty meh). Imagine how they'd be with an FE4 remake. Of course, I could be wrong but i'm basing this on observations of things that have happened in the past. 

7 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Then can we also say Fates aged like shit

No we literally can't, the game came out in 2015-2016, that's 3-4 years ago. Saying the game is bad is one thing but it objectively has not aged like shit. It hasn't aged at all, actually, the most that you can say has aged is the combat animations and even then, that's a stretch.

9 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

but if you admire Shadow Mir's opinion that is not surprising.  

I don't really admire his opinion. I just happen to agree with him on FE4. I heavily disagree with his views on FE6 and 8.

12 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Shadow Mir doesn't know how the basics work, he has been proven wrong countless times. 

He's been proven wrong regarding the matter of saving mid-chapter. The rest were just rebuttals, which isn't really proving someone wrong.

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10 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

There you go again, resorting to ad hominem attacks. You are not helping your case with that.

He's making a guarantee about the entire casual fanbase of the series globally based on what is said about FE4 on Serene forest, a single English speaking forum.  I guess we can find every truth of what the entire global fanbase thinks about anything concerning the series just by this forum alone.  

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

I never guaranteed shit, i merely made statements based on observations. Oh and before you bring this up

this is referring to people outside of SF. Most casuals are not part of SF.

Most casuals were pretty skeptical on Echoes because it didn't have the familiar gameplay of Awakening and Fates (and it didn't help that the marketing was pretty meh). Imagine how they'd be with an FE4 remake. Of course, I could be wrong but i'm basing this on observations of things that have happened in the past. 

No we literally can't, the game came out in 2015-2016, that's 3-4 years ago. Saying the game is bad is one thing but it objectively has not aged like shit. It hasn't aged at all, actually, the most that you can say has aged is the combat animations and even then, that's a stretch.

I don't really admire his opinion. I just happen to agree with him on FE4. I heavily disagree with his views on FE6 and 8.

He's been proven wrong regarding the matter of saving mid-chapter. The rest were just rebuttals, which isn't really proving someone wrong.

Referring to people outside of SF?  You say 'most casuals'.  You make a guarantee about 'most casuals'.  Fire Emblem is a global brand.

Well of course the graphics have aged but of course any game remade would upgrade the visuals, have higher sound quality, etc.  

What would be the point of Echoes Valentia if they just used let's say the Fates gameplay/mechanics?  They used the differences to advertise it.  That was one of the major selling points. Like this is an old game remade but it is offering a play experience that is new and different from what you are familiar with. 

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19 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Referring to people outside of SF?  You say 'most casuals'.  You make a guarantee about 'most casuals'.  Fire Emblem is a global brand.

And what is the casual-hardcore ratio of this global brand? A grand majority of the fanbase are casual fans. They don't care for Serenes Forest and r/fireemblem. That's why the big question regarding FE4 is "should the game be remade for the fans of FE4 or for the casual market". If you remake it for the FE4 fans, then you risk alienating the casual side (which, let's be real, is the side that matters the most to IS). If you remake it for the casuals, then you risk pissing off FE4 fans. IS can't win regardless of what they do. 

From what i have seen, it's a lot easier for a casual to get into the gameplay of Awakening and Fates than the gameplay of FE4.

19 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

What would be the point of Echoes Valentia if they just used let's say the Fates gameplay/mechanics?  They used the differences to advertise it.  That was one of the major selling points. Like this is an old game remade but it is offering a play experience that is new and different from what you are familiar with. 

Yeah and those differences didn't go well with some people.I saw this a lot pre-release and still see some of it to this day. SoV is the least FE game in the series. Even FE4 is more FE than SoV.

Oh and one more thing.

19 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

He's making a guarantee about the entire casual fanbase of the series globally based on what is said about FE4 on Serene forest, a single English speaking forum.  I guess we can find every truth of what the entire global fanbase thinks about anything concerning the series just by this forum alone.  

I did not. I stated it like twice that when i'm referring to casuals, i'm referring to fans outside of FE forums. What is said on FE forums has nothing to do with what i have observed outside of it. I could easily just reduce my post to

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Even if i did like FE4 though, i'd agree it is in need of major changes. Game's aged like shit and with IS appealing to the more casual side of the fanbase, i guarantee most casuals would not enjoy FE4 the way it is right now.

and my point about casuals would still stand. As you can see, i did not mention SF. SF is only mentioned in regards to Shadow Mir saying FE4 is polarizing. It is not mentioned on whether or not casuals would enjoy the game. 

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45 minutes ago, Armagon said:

And what is the casual-hardcore ratio of this global brand? A grand majority of the fanbase are casual fans. They don't care for Serenes Forest and r/fireemblem. That's why the big question regarding FE4 is "should the game be remade for the fans of FE4 or for the casual market". If you remake it for the FE4 fans, then you risk alienating the casual side (which, let's be real, is the side that matters the most to IS). If you remake it for the casuals, then you risk pissing off FE4 fans. IS can't win regardless of what they do. 

From what i have seen, it's a lot easier for a casual to get into the gameplay of Awakening and Fates than the gameplay of FE4.

Yeah and those differences didn't go well with some people.I saw this a lot pre-release and still see some of it to this day. SoV is the least FE game in the series. Even FE4 is more FE than SoV.

Oh and one more thing.

I did not. I stated it like twice that when i'm referring to casuals, i'm referring to fans outside of FE forums. What is said on FE forums has nothing to do with what i have observed outside of it. I could easily just reduce my post to

and my point about casuals would still stand. As you can see, i did not mention SF. SF is only mentioned in regards to Shadow Mir saying FE4 is polarizing. It is not mentioned on whether or not casuals would enjoy the game. 

When you remake a game the fans of the original are the buyers in your pocket.  People who loved the original usually buy the remake if it is true to the original (with improvements of course).  Getting the original fans is the #1 priority cause it is something you can count on.  People who are unfamiliar or not fans of the original are not ones you can count on as buyers regardless of what changes are made.  Firstly most people who hated a game aren't going to buy a remake regardless of changes.  People who are unfamiliar aren't going to bother with an old game that plays like the new games, why bother.  They'll just play the new games.  

IS can win by remaking FE4 to appeal to the old fans, updating graphics, mechanic/gameplay adjustments while staying true to the game.  The only way to guarantee failure is to disregard the guaranteed buyers (fans of the original).  This is just common sense, and how most remakes work.  

https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/71ajx0/a_japanese_poll_asked_which_fire_emblem_game_was/

This was also on serene forest

https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/75681-japanese-fans-voted-for-their-favorite-fe/

I was looking for Japanese polls on favorite Fire Emblem, this was all I could find.  Genealogy of Holy War ranked #1, apparently the poll was about 4,000 participants Japanese.  This was a 2017 poll.  Complete results

Spoiler

17th place: Shadow Dragon (FE11)

16th place: BS Fire Emblem: Akaneia Saga

15th place: Fire Emblem Heroes

14th place: Fire Emblem Gaiden

13th place: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light (FE1)

12th place: New Mystery of the Emblem: Heroes of Light and Shadow

11th place: Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia

10th place: Fire Emblem Awakening

9th place: Fire Emblem: Thracia 776

8th place: Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn

7th place Fire Emblem Fates

6th place: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones

5th place: Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade

4th place: Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem

3rd place: Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance

2nd place: Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword

1st place: Fire Emblem: Geneology of the Holy War

That would further support the smart bet would be to remake the game in a way that appeals to fans of the original.  

Edited by Lewyn
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29 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Getting the original fans is the #1 priority cause it is something you can count on. 

Eeeeeehhhh, it's a case-by-case basis. If the game is popular enough though, then yes, you should work on appealing to the original fans. That said, FE4 is not very casual-friendly and won't be without extensive changes. And IS care about the casuals the most. Awakening sold amazingly well. Birthright sold amazingly well. Conquest also sold well but much less than those. SoV is the worst selling New FE. If they remake FE4 in the same vein as SoV, what do you think will happen? What do you think would sell more, an FE4 remake aimed towards FE4 fans or an FE4 remake aimed towards the casuals (and thus, have changes made with them in mind)? 

I should point out that whenever IS stays too true to remakes, it uh, doesn't work out. Proof: see Shadow Dragon.

 

35 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Firstly most people who hated a game aren't going to buy a remake regardless of changes. 

I dunno man, sometimes remakes have changes that make people who hated the original to like the remake, provided the reason they disliked the original was due to the gameplay.

 

38 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

People who are unfamiliar aren't going to bother with an old game that plays like the new games, why bother.  They'll just play the new games.  

That doesn't make sense. The whole point of a remake is to update and improve the game. If someone hasn't played the original, they have no reason to not play the remake unless it really doesn't appeal to them.

42 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

IS can win by remaking FE4 to appeal to the old fans, updating graphics, mechanic/gameplay adjustments while staying true to the game.  The only way to guarantee failure is to disregard the guaranteed buyers (fans of the original).  This is just common sense, and how most remakes work.  

Now look who's garuanteeing. IS would make more money off of an FE4 remake that appeals to the casuals as opposed to just FE4 fans. I mean, they'd make the best money by appealing to both but that's impossible.

Seems to me like you just can't stand the idea that FE4 might be remade to appeal to the casuals and not you.

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1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

When you remake a game the fans of the original are the buyers in your pocket.  People who loved the original usually buy the remake if it is true to the original (with improvements of course).  Getting the original fans is the #1 priority cause it is something you can count on.  People who are unfamiliar or not fans of the original are not ones you can count on as buyers regardless of what changes are made.  Firstly most people who hated a game aren't going to buy a remake regardless of changes.  People who are unfamiliar aren't going to bother with an old game that plays like the new games, why bother.  They'll just play the new games.  

IS can win by remaking FE4 to appeal to the old fans, updating graphics, mechanic/gameplay adjustments while staying true to the game.  The only way to guarantee failure is to disregard the guaranteed buyers (fans of the original).  This is just common sense, and how most remakes work.  

https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/71ajx0/a_japanese_poll_asked_which_fire_emblem_game_was/

This was also on serene forest

https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/75681-japanese-fans-voted-for-their-favorite-fe/

I was looking for Japanese polls on favorite Fire Emblem, this was all I could find.  Genealogy of Holy War ranked #1, apparently the poll was about 4,000 participants Japanese.  This was a 2017 poll.  Complete results

  Reveal hidden contents

17th place: Shadow Dragon (FE11)

16th place: BS Fire Emblem: Akaneia Saga

15th place: Fire Emblem Heroes

14th place: Fire Emblem Gaiden

13th place: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light (FE1)

12th place: New Mystery of the Emblem: Heroes of Light and Shadow

11th place: Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia

10th place: Fire Emblem Awakening

9th place: Fire Emblem: Thracia 776

8th place: Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn

7th place Fire Emblem Fates

6th place: Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones

5th place: Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade

4th place: Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem

3rd place: Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance

2nd place: Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword

1st place: Fire Emblem: Geneology of the Holy War

That would further support the smart bet would be to remake the game in a way that appeals to fans of the original.  

That depends on the game. FE4 is nowhere near popular enough for a remake of it to get by on the hardcore fans, because nearly all of the hardcore fanbase is Japanese. Also, if a remake is too true to the original, that's a bad thing -  just look at Shadow Dragon. IS stayed very faithful to the original, and it didn't work out. Your points about people aside from the fans of the original not caring are also false - if they couldn't access the original for whatever reason, like in this case, it being Japan only (not everyone is willing to emulate), they have no reason to not play the remake unless it really doesn't appeal to them. If they disliked the original, that's more dicey, but sometimes the remakes of games do have changes that caused people to like them when they disliked the original (if what spurred the dislike was gameplay related).

Disregarding everyone else is the way to guaranteed failure. Placating the few won't get you anywhere when they can only offer so much. Unless you think a FE4 remake aimed towards the hardcore fanbase would sell more than one that had changes made to make it more accessible to the casual fanbase, in which case your business sense needs work.

I don't put stock in that poll because 4000 people is pretty small. And I'd wager that poll is pretty old by now (it was done in late 2017).

I say once more, for good measure, IS will not get ahead by turning their backs on the casuals to satisfy the hardcore fanbase. That is not good business practice.

57 minutes ago, Tetragrammaton said:

Original FE4 is more casual than you think, you can revive a dead character there.

Except it requires a staff that's VERY expensive to repair, only works in the main castle, and requires one of two specific pairings in order to be used in the second generation.

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Except it requires a staff that's VERY expensive to repair, only works in the main castle, and requires one of two specific pairings in order to be used in the second generation.

You complain too much, you cant do it in other game.

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11 minutes ago, Tetragrammaton said:

You complain too much, you cant do it in other game.

That's false - the Archanea games had Aum, Gaiden/SoV had revival springs, and Fates had Bifrost.

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16 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

That's false - the Archanea games had Aum, Gaiden/SoV had revival springs, and Fates had Bifrost.

This is where you're both right.

FE4 is technically unlimited, though it's hardly Phoenix Mode.

All the other methods you named are limited, so you can't kill half your army and expect to see them later.  FE12 adds insult to injury by making Aum unobtainable on Lunatic (sans hacking).

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9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I don't think it's broken - the main gripe (and the only one I have about it, in fact) is about how restrictive and inconvenient the requirement that you not have moved a unit in order to use the battle save feature is, since it's more likely that I'd find myself needing to step away from the game for some reason around the middle of a turn

If you have to leave inbetween a game then that's really you're problem and not the game's honestly. And technically not a problem of any of the other games in the series that doesn't let you save in the middle of a chapter.

Saving without moving a unit does make things less flexible, but it does give you the chance to rethink your strategies in case anything goes wrong in the following turn.

Because imagine accidentally having Fury in the range of an archer and then you immediately saved on all save files, so she's a 100% goner. That'd be a big oof.

 

3 hours ago, Lewyn said:

This was a 2017 poll. 

Big oof that Shadow Dragon is lower than fucking BS FE.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, if a remake is too true to the original, that's a bad thing -  just look at Shadow Dragon. IS stayed very faithful to the original, and it didn't work out.

Shadow Dragon isn't as faithful to the original as this implies. Shadow dragon modernized the mechanics, a lot. For example:

  • added the weapon triangle
  • redesigned how classes worked including adding modern classes, forcing multiple classes to have promotions, or become promoted classes to better conform to modern systems
  • changed from the weapon level stat to the weapon rank system
  • allowed for characters to reclass
  • made it easier to trade items between units
  • made it easier to utilize the convoy
  • added a system for forging weapons
  • nerfed the unique abilities of the Falchion, Mercurius, and dragon stones
  • added a prologue and poorly received gaiden chapters
  • added map save points for easier difficulties
  • etc.

Shadow Dragon's failure wasn't being too faithful to the mechanics, it was its failure to imbue the playable units with character, which many saw as it being too faithful to the story, and the originals lack of supports.

A successful IS remake would need to include the most iconic features of Genealogy of the Holy War, but use modern updates to make them more accessible, while using the advances in technology to improve presentation, and expand our opportunities to learn and care about the characters and world.

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6 hours ago, Armagon said:

Eeeeeehhhh, it's a case-by-case basis. If the game is popular enough though, then yes, you should work on appealing to the original fans. That said, FE4 is not very casual-friendly and won't be without extensive changes. And IS care about the casuals the most. Awakening sold amazingly well. Birthright sold amazingly well. Conquest also sold well but much less than those. SoV is the worst selling New FE. If they remake FE4 in the same vein as SoV, what do you think will happen? What do you think would sell more, an FE4 remake aimed towards FE4 fans or an FE4 remake aimed towards the casuals (and thus, have changes made with them in mind)? 

I should point out that whenever IS stays too true to remakes, it uh, doesn't work out. Proof: see Shadow Dragon.

But isn't the system holding SD back alot? That's the main issue to me, at least.

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6 hours ago, Armagon said:

Eeeeeehhhh, it's a case-by-case basis. If the game is popular enough though, then yes, you should work on appealing to the original fans. That said, FE4 is not very casual-friendly and won't be without extensive changes. And IS care about the casuals the most. Awakening sold amazingly well. Birthright sold amazingly well. Conquest also sold well but much less than those. SoV is the worst selling New FE. If they remake FE4 in the same vein as SoV, what do you think will happen? What do you think would sell more, an FE4 remake aimed towards FE4 fans or an FE4 remake aimed towards the casuals (and thus, have changes made with them in mind)? 

You do realize that just because SoV sold less than Awakening and Fates doesn't mean it bombed right? IS even said it sold above their expectations. Like, it always annoys me when people say Echoes failed sales wise when that isn't the case. If anything, I'm pretty confident we'll get more Echoes styled remakes of older FE games in the future.

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25 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

But isn't the system holding SD back alot? That's the main issue to me, at least.

By system, do you mean the DS? I don't think the DS was the issue.

8 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

You do realize that just because SoV sold less than Awakening and Fates doesn't mean it bombed right?

I never said it did.

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10 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

You do realize that just because SoV sold less than Awakening and Fates doesn't mean it bombed right? IS even said it sold above their expectations. Like, it always annoys me when people say Echoes failed sales wise when that isn't the case. If anything, I'm pretty confident we'll get more Echoes styled remakes of older FE games in the future.

That depends on how you're defining "worst", which could be in terms of quantity (pure numbers, in which case it is indeed the worst-selling of the 3DS games; Armagon is correct here) or quality (meeting sales expectations, which it also did; you're correct here).

Edited by Von Ithipathachai
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19 minutes ago, Armagon said:

By system, do you mean the DS? I don't think the DS was the issue.

Yeah, I think the DS really slowed it down. I dont think the DS is a great system, so I might be a bit biased, but if any of the FE's were remade on the DS, I think they would be lacking mechanically. As far as FE4 goes, I think alot of compromises could be made between players. I don't see why not, things change, and can change for the better I think, so why shouldn't FE4 update as well? Sure you could argue it will ruin the original game, but there is no question it has alot of design flaws, all games do. I mean besides just changing the map design, of course. 

Edited by lightcosmo
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31 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

As far as FE4 goes, I think alot of compromises could be made between players. I don't see why not, things change, and can change for the better I think, so why shouldn't FE4 update as well? Sure you could argue it will ruin the original game, but there is no question it has alot of design flaws, all games do. I mean besides just changing the map design, of course

No doubt they are going to update a remake. They did with SD, NM, and SoV, after all. How they are going to do that however, we don't know, but there was already a topic about this issue, so you might as well look at that.

Map design they likely will not change at all considering how they're designed to fit the continent.

 

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38 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Yeah, I think the DS really slowed it down. I dont think the DS is a great system, so I might be a bit biased, but if any of the FE's were remade on the DS, I think they would be lacking mechanically.

You say that but New Mystery exists and New Mystery has a lot of thing Shadow Dragon lacked. Support Convos, a Weapon Triangle that is actual releveant, etc. It also fully introduced the Avatar. So i think it's wrong to say Shadow Dragon was held back by the DS when the sequel to Shadow Dragon was on the same system with many improvements.

 

54 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

That depends on how you're defining "worst", which could be in terms of quantity (pure numbers, in which case it is indeed the worst-selling of the 3DS games; Armagon is correct here)

Yeah, by pure sales numbers is what i meant. It was to show how FE games geared towards the more casual side tend to do better these days. I think Revelation sold worse than Conquest but you also couldn't buy Revelation as a standalone so that one doesn't count.

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8 hours ago, Armagon said:

You say that but New Mystery exists and New Mystery has a lot of thing Shadow Dragon lacked. Support Convos, a Weapon Triangle that is actual releveant, etc. It also fully introduced the Avatar. So i think it's wrong to say Shadow Dragon was held back by the DS when the sequel to Shadow Dragon was on the same system with many improvements.

It's also lacking basics like character palletes, personalised map sprites, multiple attacks for sprites, new mystery reused most graphics so I dont consider that an upgrade.

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11 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

It's also lacking basics like character palletes, personalised map sprites, multiple attacks for sprites, new mystery reused most graphics so I dont consider that an upgrade.

Perhaps not visually, but certainly in terms of gameplay mechanics, which is far more important in the long run.

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10 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

But isn't the system holding SD back alot? That's the main issue to me, at least.

I'm not an expert on tech but by virtue of it coming later than other handhelds its safe to say the DS was a decent bit of tech. It must certainly have been more powerful than the GBA which FE's blow Shadow Dragon out of the water in most regards. Judging by much the GBA games were able to do I'd say the DS could have offered Shadow Dragon more if the devs bothered to make use of it. 

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Quote

Shadow Dragon isn't as faithful to the original as this implies. Shadow dragon modernized the mechanics, a lot. For example:

  • added the weapon triangle

Yes, but they kept all of the enemies the same as the original, meaning that all your sword users were now at a heavy disadvantage due to most enemies still being lance users - something that didn't happen in the original game.

Edited by NinjaMonkey
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1 hour ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Perhaps not visually, but certainly in terms of gameplay mechanics, which is far more important in the long run.

Gameplay is also mostly SD, though. And even then, what makes the gameplay really stand out? The personal map sprites is good for those who want to know who's who right away. Palletes is a personal opinion, not that it's bad. 

 

30 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm not an expert on tech but by virtue of it coming later than other handhelds its safe to say the DS was a decent bit of tech. It must certainly have been more powerful than the GBA which FE's blow Shadow Dragon out of the water in most regards. Judging by much the GBA games were able to do I'd say the DS could have offered Shadow Dragon more if the devs bothered to make use of it. 

Right, the game certainly didn't get what it should have, I think.

Edited by lightcosmo
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17 hours ago, Tetragrammaton said:

Original FE4 is more casual than you think, you can revive a dead character there.

I'd hardly consider that a casual thing tbh. Sans Casual Mode in FE12 and after, i think SoV is the only game that is actually casual in how you revive units. Because not only do you have the revival springs but you also have Mila's Turnwheel, which can effectively let you revive multiple units at once. Compare that to

  • The Aum Staff. In FE1/11 and Book I of FE3, you could only use the Aum Staff in the chapter 24 at one specific location. In addition, in FE1 and Book I of FE3, only Elice could use it (Yuliya can also use it in Book II). FE11 and 12, Maria, Caeda, Minerva and Sheena can also use it provided they've been reclassed to the right class.
  • the Valkyrie Staff, which can only be used once in the home castle and while repairable, is by far the most expensive repairable item in the game. And if you don't have one of two specific pairing in the 2nd gen, you just don't get it at all. It's like fossil fuels, you can technically use the Valkyrie Staff as many times as you want but the process of doing that takes way too long.
  • The Bifrost Staff doesn't even let you choose who you want to revive, it only revives the last unit who died on the map you're currently on.
12 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

added the weapon triangle

To be fair, the Weapon Triangle meant jack shit in Shadow Dragon after the first act. Axe users ceased to exist so swordies were always at a disadvantage.

33 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Gameplay is also mostly SD, though. And even then, what makes the gameplay really stand out?

The Weapon Triangle actually mattered in New Mystery, so by default, New Mystery had better gameplay. It doesn't stand out but you could argue that for most games in the series.

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