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Will Genealogy of the Holy War be the next remake?


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Will Genealogy of the holy war be the next remake?  

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  1. 1. Will Genealogy of the holy war be the next remake?



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15 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I'd hardly consider that a casual thing tbh. Sans Casual Mode in FE12 and after, i think SoV is the only game that is actually casual in how you revive units. Because not only do you have the revival springs but you also have Mila's Turnwheel, which can effectively let you revive multiple units at once. Compare that to

  • The Aum Staff. In FE1/11 and Book I of FE3, you could only use the Aum Staff in the chapter 24 at one specific location. In addition, in FE1 and Book I of FE3, only Elice could use it (Yuliya can also use it in Book II). FE11 and 12, Maria, Caeda, Minerva and Sheena can also use it provided they've been reclassed to the right class.
  • the Valkyrie Staff, which can only be used once in the home castle and while repairable, is by far the most expensive repairable item in the game. And if you don't have one of two specific pairing in the 2nd gen, you just don't get it at all. It's like fossil fuels, you can technically use the Valkyrie Staff as many times as you want but the process of doing that takes way too long.
  • The Bifrost Staff doesn't even let you choose who you want to revive, it only revives the last unit who died on the map you're currently on.

To be fair, the Weapon Triangle meant jack shit in Shadow Dragon after the first act. Axe users ceased to exist so swordies were always at a disadvantage.

The Weapon Triangle actually mattered in New Mystery, so by default, New Mystery had better gameplay. It doesn't stand out but you could argue that for most games in the series.

Well FE4 has unique mechanics to separate it from FE5. Love bonus, lovers, pawn shop, sibling bonus, holy blood. 

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So everything already in this thread aside, Shadows of Valentia was made as a quick side project (originally intended for release in September 2016) while IS was waiting to start development on Three Houses, and as their swan song for the 3DS. Gaiden in particular was chosen to be remade so IS could reuse ideas that were cut from Fates (dungeons and free roam). And that aside, there's no reason to think we'll get another remake anytime soon unless it's another side project...

But that doesn't answer the thread's question, so will Genealogy be the next remake? The poll doesn't have a "who knows" option, but if it did I would pick it. "It's the oldest game that hasn't been remade yet" isn't really a good reason to expect it, and Blazing Blade could be remade next for all we know. And that's assuming there will be a next remake, since IS has no obligation to make more. But there's little reason to not remake Genealogy in particular, so it's impossible to tell at this point.

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4 hours ago, Armagon said:

I'd hardly consider that a casual thing tbh. Sans Casual Mode in FE12 and after, i think SoV is the only game that is actually casual in how you revive units. Because not only do you have the revival springs but you also have Mila's Turnwheel, which can effectively let you revive multiple units at once. Compare that to

  • The Aum Staff. In FE1/11 and Book I of FE3, you could only use the Aum Staff in the chapter 24 at one specific location. In addition, in FE1 and Book I of FE3, only Elice could use it (Yuliya can also use it in Book II). FE11 and 12, Maria, Caeda, Minerva and Sheena can also use it provided they've been reclassed to the right class.
  • the Valkyrie Staff, which can only be used once in the home castle and while repairable, is by far the most expensive repairable item in the game. And if you don't have one of two specific pairing in the 2nd gen, you just don't get it at all. It's like fossil fuels, you can technically use the Valkyrie Staff as many times as you want but the process of doing that takes way too long.
  • The Bifrost Staff doesn't even let you choose who you want to revive, it only revives the last unit who died on the map you're currently on.

To be fair, the Weapon Triangle meant jack shit in Shadow Dragon after the first act. Axe users ceased to exist so swordies were always at a disadvantage.

The Weapon Triangle actually mattered in New Mystery, so by default, New Mystery had better gameplay. It doesn't stand out but you could argue that for most games in the series.

You can revive any dead unit and it is unlimited.

You can grind all units to maximum level.

Etc. Etc....

The game is too easy already.

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8 minutes ago, Tetragrammaton said:

You can revive any dead unit and it is unlimited.

I think you didn't read my post. I know you can technically have unlimited revives. The problem is having access to those unlimited revives in the first place. Again with my fossil fuels comparison: technically, the resource is unlimited as it can always be replenished. However, the process of replenishing it takes too long to the point where it might as well be a one-time use.

14 minutes ago, Tetragrammaton said:

You can grind all units to maximum level.

Yes and? You can do this in most games.

15 minutes ago, Tetragrammaton said:

The game is too easy already.

I mean, i never said it was a hard game. It's just a game that isn't really casual friendly. It's more casual friendly than Thracia but everything is more casual friendly than Thracia.

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4 hours ago, Tetragrammaton said:

You can revive any dead unit and it is unlimited.

The "unlimited" part would mean something if it wasn't so impractical that nine times out of ten, you'd be better off just reloading your last save if a unit died. Compared to all the other revival methods in the series, it's more restrictive than all the others except Bifrost (only works in your main castle, requires one of two specific pairings for it to even be usable in the second generation, extremely expensive to repair, etc. Oh, and as an additional strike, one of the two pairings that does allow you to use the Valkyrie Staff in the second generation puts it in the hands of a unit who doesn't come until the second half of the second generation).

Edited by Shadow Mir
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On 13-4-2019 at 1:03 AM, Slumber said:

and Azel is a child of rape... which then caused Cigyun to leave Victor for Kurth, and he promptly killed himself. Arguably the events that most directly set up the events of FE4 can be attributed to Victor being a womanizing rapist.

If I remember correctly, the part that Azel is a child of rape isn't mentioned in fe4 but in Fire Emblem Treasure. It is mentioned in chapter 2 that Victor was a womanizer but not that he was a rapist.

Quote

Filat:
“Oh, I may as well tell you the whole story. This all took place nearly 20 years ago. The lovely duchess of Velthomer, a married woman mind you, fell for the prince. Now the duke of Velthomer was a reputed womaniser and had several lovers. The prince, however, was a straight arrow. Initially, the prince merely sympathised with the duchess, but then one day the two fell deeply in love. Now the duke lost his head. After writing a letter denouncing the two, he committed suicide. The duchess, clearly perplexed, disappeared without a trace. I believe her name was Cigyun.”

https://serenesforest.net/genealogy-of-the-holy-war/scripts/script-translation/chapter-2-disturbance-in-agustria/

Nowhere in the text is it mentioned that Victor raped the mother of Azel. The place where it is mentioned that Azel was a child born of rape is here.

Quote

Although Victor got his hands on the girl from the momentum of being drunk, when he knew the girl got pregnant he yelled, cursed, used violence, and tried to drive her away. The person who scolded at this was Shigyun, and the very child who this girl got pregnant with was in fact Azel. When Victor died, Azel was just born.

http://serenesforest.net/general/designers-notes/holy-war/fire-emblem-treasure/ Under Alvis and Azel

 

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3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

The "unlimited" part would mean something if it wasn't so impractical that nine times out of ten, you'd be better off just reloading your last save if a unit died. Compared to all the other revival methods in the series, it's more restrictive than all the others except Bifrost (only works in your main castle, requires one of two specific pairings for it to even be usable in the second generation, extremely expensive to repair, etc. Oh, and as an additional strike, one of the two pairings that does allow you to use the Valkyrie Staff in the second generation puts it in the hands of a unit who doesn't come until the second half of the second generation).

I think that's the idea, not to make it so flexible you could just clutch off of it. If you could, why bother actually playing? It's supposed to be more difficult, a lot of SNES games are like that, it's not any different here. I mean you could argue the FE7 "ultimate's" have way worse usability, So this is pretty generous, actually. I mean, what's the point of it if you get it for 1 1/2 chapters?

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16 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

I think that's the idea, not to make it so flexible you could just clutch off of it. If you could, why bother actually playing? It's supposed to be more difficult, a lot of SNES games are like that, it's not any different here. I mean you could argue the FE7 "ultimate's" have way worse usability, So this is pretty generous, actually. I mean, what's the point of it if you get it for 1 1/2 chapters?

But this is going way too far - the Valkyrie Staff has next to no practical use thanks to all these conditions. Especially the main castle restriction, which alone is enough to render it impractical to use to the point where you'd have to actively go out of your way to use the damn thing. The FE7 ultimate weapons were generous in comparison to THAT, even with the one chapter of usability.

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

But this is going way too far - the Valkyrie Staff has next to no practical use thanks to all these conditions. Especially the main castle restriction, which alone is enough to render it impractical to use to the point where you'd have to actively go out of your way to use the damn thing. The FE7 ultimate weapons were generous in comparison to THAT, even with the one chapter of usability.

Thats the idea, though. It's fine the way it is. It's not exactly hard and it's free, why complain about it? I wouldn't say that's enough to consider them worth it. Going out of your way would be more like, using dark magic in FE 10, isn't that a bit more inconvenient? 

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

But this is going way too far - the Valkyrie Staff has next to no practical use thanks to all these conditions. Especially the main castle restriction, which alone is enough to render it impractical to use to the point where you'd have to actively go out of your way to use the damn thing. The FE7 ultimate weapons were generous in comparison to THAT, even with the one chapter of usability.

You're assuming everyone is gunning to finish the game as fast as possible. It isn't that much of a pain in the ass to warp or return your Valkyrie user (or give them a return ring) to the main castle and let them revive someone. You're supposed to go out of your way to use it if you want someone revived and don't want to reboot an old save. That's the entire point.

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50 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Thats the idea, though. It's fine the way it is. It's not exactly hard and it's free, why complain about it? I wouldn't say that's enough to consider them worth it. Going out of your way would be more like, using dark magic in FE 10, isn't that a bit more inconvenient? 

Because thanks to its main castle restriction, it's barely any more usable than Bifrost - and putting a severe restriction that makes it impractical to use defeats the purpose of having it be a thing in the first place. That's plenty of reason to complain. It's easily one of the most impractical items to use in the entire series.

34 minutes ago, Darros said:

You're assuming everyone is gunning to finish the game as fast as possible. It isn't that much of a pain in the ass to warp or return your Valkyrie user (or give them a return ring) to the main castle and let them revive someone. You're supposed to go out of your way to use it if you want someone revived and don't want to reboot an old save. That's the entire point.

Bold: And that's the problem - the inconvenience of essentially removing my Valkyrie user from contributing in any meaningful fashion for the rest of the map far and away outweighs what good it could do, and thus would make rebooting an old save the better option pretty much ten times out of ten (about the only exception is if you got someone killed early enough that it's not that much of an imposition). Oh, and all of this is ignoring how there are only two pairings that allow it to be used in the second generation.

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3 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

I think that's the idea, not to make it so flexible you could just clutch off of it.

Agred, that's absolutely the idea, i was just arguing that it shouldn't be considered a casual option because of what you have to do for it to be a remotely valuable resource. I don't think the Valkyrie Staff is bad, just that it's too impractical for it to be considered a casual resource, which is what Tetragrammaton thinks it is.

 

45 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: And that's the problem - the inconvenience of essentially removing my Valkyrie user from contributing in any meaningful fashion for the rest of the map far and away outweighs what good it could do

To be fair, if you happen to get the Valkyire Staff on Corple, you might as well just keep him at the Home Castle to begin with considering how useless he is. A Lv.1 Est-type Staff users with no way of attacking joining at a time when the game is nearly over in a game where promotion doesn't come until Lv.20. Yeah, just keep him in the Home Castle, resurrecting the dead is the only thing he'd be good for. He's the only Est that there is actually no point in training unless you really like Corple.

 

Edited by Armagon
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5 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: And that's the problem - the inconvenience of essentially removing my Valkyrie user from contributing in any meaningful fashion for the rest of the map far and away outweighs what good it could do, and thus would make rebooting an old save the better option pretty much ten times out of ten (about the only exception is if you got someone killed early enough that it's not that much of an imposition). Oh, and all of this is ignoring how there are only two pairings that allow it to be used in the second generation.

No offense but this sounds like a you problem and like whining for the sake of it. If it could be used wherever on the map it would be pretty overpowered. Not everything is supposed to be easy to use. You're missing the point and it sounds like it's on purpose. Your pairing argument also holds no weight. There are only three pairings that give you Holsety in Gen II, and one of them is Corple who can't even use it until you drag his ass to level 20. Does that make it a worse item?

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5 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Because thanks to its main castle restriction, it's barely any more usable than Bifrost - and putting a severe restriction that makes it impractical to use defeats the purpose of having it be a thing in the first place. That's plenty of reason to complain. It's easily one of the most impractical items to use in the entire series.

Bold: And that's the problem - the inconvenience of essentially removing my Valkyrie user from contributing in any meaningful fashion for the rest of the map far and away outweighs what good it could do, and thus would make rebooting an old save the better option pretty much ten times out of ten (about the only exception is if you got someone killed early enough that it's not that much of an imposition). Oh, and all of this is ignoring how there are only two pairings that allow it to be used in the second generation.

Or you can just wait until the start of next chapter to revive them? That seems like the draw of Valkyrie, lightening the burden of resets by making up for a unit death. The 30k cost becomes a lighter issue by having a thief pass them gold to repair it or by giving them the Bargain Ring. And besides neither potential inheritor is mounted, as Armagon pointed out Coirpre can spam staves from in base just fine; the home castle is the best place to have your designated warper at the ready. Not like he or Ced are doing much on the front lines of Genealogy of the Cavalry War with 5 or 6 movement, you need to warp them ahead if you're going full steam.

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10 hours ago, LJwalhout said:

If I remember correctly, the part that Azel is a child of rape isn't mentioned in fe4 but in Fire Emblem Treasure. It is mentioned in chapter 2 that Victor was a womanizer but not that he was a rapist.

Nowhere in the text is it mentioned that Victor raped the mother of Azel. The place where it is mentioned that Azel was a child born of rape is here.

Fair. It's in the secondary material and not the game proper, but it still doesn't really change FE4 being darker than just about every mainline FF game, and it's not really even close.

Rape may not be explicit, but it's pretty implicit. The Lene scene specifically is pretty hard to interpret as anything else. And it's not like rape is the only thing that can make a dark fantasy dark, it's just one of those factors that really pushes it over the edge, since things like death and murder are common place in lighter fantasy stories.

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8 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

But this is going way too far - the Valkyrie Staff has next to no practical use thanks to all these conditions. Especially the main castle restriction, which alone is enough to render it impractical to use to the point where you'd have to actively go out of your way to use the damn thing. The FE7 ultimate weapons were generous in comparison to THAT, even with the one chapter of usability.

Is it really? I mean, you do get your unit back, with no drawbacks. Also, my counter argument still stands.

 

5 hours ago, Armagon said:

Agred, that's absolutely the idea, i was just arguing that it shouldn't be considered a casual option because of what you have to do for it to be a remotely valuable resource. I don't think the Valkyrie Staff is bad, just that it's too impractical for it to be considered a casual resource, which is what Tetragrammaton thinks it is.

 

I think this is right. If it were casual, it would be much more available to the player. But I dont think it's completely invaluable either. It's kinda like, a nice extra, really. Its use also kind of depends on how good you are at the game, if you aren't, like me, expect to use it quite a bit.

Edited by lightcosmo
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2 hours ago, Darros said:

No offense but this sounds like a you problem and like whining for the sake of it. If it could be used wherever on the map it would be pretty overpowered. Not everything is supposed to be easy to use. You're missing the point and it sounds like it's on purpose. Your pairing argument also holds no weight. There are only three pairings that give you Holsety in Gen II, and one of them is Corple who can't even use it until you drag his ass to level 20. Does that make it a worse item?

I am not saying I'd want it to be used wherever on the map - I'd be A-OK with having it be usable in any castle the player has captured. That would actually make it legitimately usable, as opposed to needing to go completely out of my way to use it or making it so situational that I might as well not bother. Also, not everything needs to be easy to use, but make something either too hard to use reasonably or underwhelming for all the trouble it is to use, and you get three words; "Awesome But Impractical". A phrase that suits the Valkyrie Staff to a T, since far more often than not, it's just faster to reload my last save, which doesn't wind up practically taking two of my units out of the fight (the user themselves*, and the unit I ended up losing).

*Though to be fair, neither of the inheritors is mounted.

2 hours ago, X-Naut said:

Or you can just wait until the start of next chapter to revive them? That seems like the draw of Valkyrie, lightening the burden of resets by making up for a unit death. The 30k cost becomes a lighter issue by having a thief pass them gold to repair it or by giving them the Bargain Ring. And besides neither potential inheritor is mounted, as Armagon pointed out Coirpre can spam staves from in base just fine; the home castle is the best place to have your designated warper at the ready. Not like he or Ced are doing much on the front lines of Genealogy of the Cavalry War with 5 or 6 movement, you need to warp them ahead if you're going full steam.

Bold: That's about the one instance where it could legitimately come in handy (assuming I ended up losing a unit during the last part of the previous chapter, at least). So it's not completely useless... only mostly useless, which isn't much better. The massive repair cost is still a thing, though... which isn't really helped by the fact that the one unit type that can transfer money to other units freely isn't mounted.

1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

Is it really? I mean, you do get your unit back, with no drawbacks. Also, my counter argument still stands.

I would say so, since the revived unit is still essentially out of the fight.

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: That's about the one instance where it could legitimately come in handy (assuming I ended up losing a unit during the last part of the previous chapter, at least).

. . .so Casual Mode with a hefty gold cost, then?

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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I would say so, since the revived unit is still essentially out of the fight.

It's not quite the same considering you can deploy everybody. I mean, is a unit that isn't deployed useless or pointless? They are supposed to be like that, you shouldn't be rewarded for getting someone killed, that would be what is called a negative. That sounds absurd, really. How good should it be before enough is enough? Some things really should have limits, and that's one of them.

Edited by lightcosmo
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4 hours ago, eclipse said:

. . .so Casual Mode with a hefty gold cost, then?

The "hefty gold cost" part is what I consider disqualifying. It's comparable to fossil fuels, as stated earlier - while it can be replenished, it takes such an exorbitant amount of resources to do so that it might as well be a one-time use. There's still the part where a casual player likely wouldn't know it could be passed down unless they happened to employ a guide, too.

3 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

It's not quite the same considering you can deploy everybody. I mean, is a unit that isn't deployed useless or pointless? They are supposed to be like that, you shouldn't be rewarded for getting someone killed, that would be what is called a negative. That sounds absurd, really. How good should it be before enough is enough? Some things really should have limits, and that's one of them.

Go too far with limits and restrictions, though, and you get "Awesome But Impractical", as I stated earlier; just look at Bifrost (only usable by Maids or Butlers, only obtainable 2 chapters from the end, and only revives the most recently fallen ally in the current battle). Or for a rather extreme example, Presea's Crimson Devastation from the rereleases of Tales of Symphonia (requires, among other things, Presea herself at critical health and everyone else dead). Which leads me to ask you, how restrictive must something be before you realize it's not worth it?

Edited by Shadow Mir
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The "hefty gold cost" is an invalid argument since different games use different scale of gold value.

The FE4 version Reverse/Fortify Staff is worth a half of the Valkyrie Staff.

It may sound exorbitant amount of resources too if you've never actual play the game.

image.thumb.png.83972fdcd6896ceeb64290a30a0f6fac.png

Edited by Tetragrammaton
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4 hours ago, Tetragrammaton said:

The "hefty gold cost" is an invalid argument since different games use different scale of gold value.

The FE4 version Reverse/Fortify Staff is worth a half of the Valkyrie Staff.

It may sound exorbitant amount of resources too if you've never actual play the game.

image.thumb.png.83972fdcd6896ceeb64290a30a0f6fac.png

...and other games are relevant to this discussion how??? Because none of the other games use the individual money system FE4 uses.

It is still generally a more practical option for repairing than the Valkyrie staff.

Or maybe that's because it is. That amount of money could've easily gone to repairing something that would be of greater help in achieving victory several times over.

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7 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

The "hefty gold cost" part is what I consider disqualifying. It's comparable to fossil fuels, as stated earlier - while it can be replenished, it takes such an exorbitant amount of resources to do so that it might as well be a one-time use. There's still the part where a casual player likely wouldn't know it could be passed down unless they happened to employ a guide, too.

Go too far with limits and restrictions, though, and you get "Awesome But Impractical", as I stated earlier; just look at Bifrost (only usable by Maids or Butlers, only obtainable 2 chapters from the end, and only revives the most recently fallen ally in the current battle). Or for a rather extreme example, Presea's Crimson Devastation from the rereleases of Tales of Symphonia (requires, among other things, Presea herself at critical health and everyone else dead). Which leads me to ask you, how restrictive must something be before you realize it's not worth it?

Well how good should free revives be before it's completely broken? Its fixing your risk, so it's worth it in that regard. And managing gold is not that hard, honestly, and that's coming from a casual player. As far as the player not knowing things goes, what's new? Alot of people dont know how Karel/Harken appear, they expect you to figure some things out on your own. Wanted to get Stefan? Same issue, FE4 is not the only game that does that. How can you argue it has all these flaws when you haven't played it? It's hard to say some things are "issues" when you never have attempted it at all. 

Edited by lightcosmo
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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

...and other games are relevant to this discussion how??? Because none of the other games use the individual money system FE4 uses.

It is still generally a more practical option for repairing than the Valkyrie staff.

Or maybe that's because it is. That amount of money could've easily gone to repairing something that would be of greater help in achieving victory several times over.

Let's make it simple, you can revive anyone for the price of 2 Fortify Staffs or 6 Silver Swords.

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