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Tsak

Fire Emblem Rejects?

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As that title states i was thinking about doing a challenge run where i pick exclusively lowtier characters and do an Ironman with them (forgive me if this has been done before). I was probably going to start with FE7 as it's the one I'm most familiar with and it's easily stream-able. Only problem is I don't know what characters are actually considered the worst. Given that you guys here at Serenes Forest are fairly decent when it comes to these things, can we get some voting on whose the top 10-15 worst characters? maybe 3 responses per person? I'll tally them up and start up a run, probably less than a week depending.

Update:
So from this consensus im getting:

Wil
Rebecca
Nino
Renault
Lyn (but it's not unique)
Louise
Wallace squared
Serra
Dorcas and Bartre
Matthew

Update 3:

Ok so minus Rath and Lucius (lucius himself seemed decent but i figured Erk is better purely because anima)
So ill start this up this weekend probably friday or Saturday depending. I'm basically going to either not deploy whose not on the list or ill have them die a heroic death with no weapon in hand. Also going out of my way to try and make wallace is going to be fun. His join chapter is gonna be fun.

Update 4:
Now live! https://www.twitch.tv/tsakan2

Update 5:

Matthew died on chapter 9 because he missed an 80+ something %. that's funny. RIP my thief for the run, gonna let him stay dead on eliwood mode

Edited by Tsak

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Well, there's Nino for starters, and Wil doesn't seem to get much in the way of praise either. Also, Wallace.

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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In FE7 I definitely think there's a considerable gap between good and bad units so sure, here are some units that come to mind:

  • Wil/Rebecca are naturally low tier. Bad class, bad bases, slow experience gains due to lack of enemy phase presence.
  • I would consider Lyn low tier as well, but most people use her anyway so it wouldn't be unique.
  • Wallace, Karel, and Karla are bad pre-promotes units but they all join in the last third of the game.
  • Dorcas and Bartre are definite low tiers. 
  • Serra. She has nothing over Priscilla with worse stats across the board and no mount. 
  • I often think people don't realize how bad Erk is at base, but with Lyn Mode exp he can snowball into something useful very quickly since anima mages are so versatile and easy to use.
  • Rath may be a good choice. He's even worse if you decide to play Lyn Mode.
  • Isadora is tricky to make use of compared to any cavaliers you've been raising up.
  • Nino.
Edited by Glennstavos

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Under what conditions?  A slower run means that the likes of Nino get some time to shine.

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Just whoever gets voted on here as generally the worst characters. ill be doing Eliwood hard (maybe lyn hard too if depending). I realize hector is the harder of 2 modes but I havent done eliwood hard in a really long time.

Edited by Tsak

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I'm gonna toss a vote for Renault just so that you're short a unit for the vast majority of the game.

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Louise ain't great, the best of 3 horrible Archers, but still not great, so Louise without Pent I'd say. All the other low-there's have already been mentioned in some way shape or form already, so I'll wrap this up. 

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On 4/20/2019 at 7:14 PM, Glennstavos said:

Serra. She has nothing over Priscilla with worse stats across the board and no mount. 

I don’t think Serra is all that low tier. Sure she doesn’t have a mount but I find that FE7 is filled with forests and lots of narrow passages so that mobility lead that Priscilla has isn’t gonna see much use. Not to mention Serra is your only other healer until someone promotes or recruit some late game characters so she’s pretty useful even after Priscilla gets recruited and stat wise Priscilla and her are about equal. But anyhow, I’m digressing.

My vote goes to Dart. I love the dude but he can’t hit shit with that skill of his, has a whopping 5 AS loss with his base Steel Axe, and his promotion comes real late.

Also, why is Wallace listed twice? lol 

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49 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I don’t think Serra is all that low tier. Sure she doesn’t have a mount but I find that FE7 is filled with forests and lots of narrow passages so that mobility lead that Priscilla has isn’t gonna see much use. Not to mention Serra is your only other healer until someone promotes or recruit some late game characters so she’s pretty useful even after Priscilla gets recruited and stat wise Priscilla and her are about equal. But anyhow, I’m digressing.

If I were making a tier list, Serra is for sure not low tier. Healing is just too nice, fog of war maps let you spam torch staves for free experience every turn, and they don't take away from the exp your other units can earn. But if this were literally a "Low Tier only" playthrough we'd have no healers until I guess Renault for the final chapter and that's no fun. I'm just saying she's the worst of the two unpromoted healers by far, and I tend to ditch her as soon as my magic users begin promoting and earning stave utility. But when I say mount I'm not just talking movement range. I'm talking about rescue dropping, trade swapping, everything that only mounted units can perform and then retreat behind the front line in the same turn. And since Priscilla is herself very small, she's easy to rescue if you accidentally put her in a bad spot, unlike other horse units. So there's no functional drawback other than horses can't climb mountains (this game pretty much only does peaks in the mid to late game). If Serra and priscilla had to get from point A to point B, but there's one forest tile in the way, Priscilla would still reach one space further. They reach the same distance if it were two forest tiles, and neither of them could cross three tiles.

Also her stats are leagues below priscillas when it comes to fighting as a promoted unit, and ill suited to light magic which is heavy and has low MT.

On 4/20/2019 at 6:56 PM, Tsak said:

Lucius

Lucius rocks. Best of the three unpromoted mages in my opinion. Even without Lyn Mode EXP his bases have him doubling the enemies immediately and his 60% mag growth make up for Light Magic's low stats. Also he earns C staves on promotion, leaving him just one rank away from Physic, the status staves, and Rescue. Seriously reaching that Rank is very obnoxious for the other mages.

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I think Matthew is in a similar situation as Serra, not low tier per se, but the worst of the thieves if you ignore thief utility, and the utility of thieves is usually enough to push them out of low tier despite their stats.

I am going to suggest two that I think avoided the low tier list due to most people considering HHM in their tiering.

I'm surprised Eliwood hasn't come up as low tier yet, Eliwood's promotion is what usually gives him the edge over Lyn (although not by too much), but in Eliwood mode he is forced to promote far too late to salvage him.

Guy might hit the low tier, his ability to use the killing edge early game is amazing, but as soon as it breaks he is useless without lucky stat procs, and in Eliwood mode he losses his HHM bonuses to make that even more unlikely. I'm a bit on the fence whether to include him or not, (I tend to think of him as similar in tier to Dart in a borderline tier) but I figured I'd throw it out there

4 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Lucius rocks. Best of the three unpromoted mages in my opinion. Even without Lyn Mode EXP his bases have him doubling the enemies immediately and his 60% mag growth make up for Light Magic's low stats. Also he earns C staves on promotion, leaving him just one rank away from Physic, the status staves, and Rescue. Seriously reaching that Rank is very obnoxious for the other mages.

I will second the notion that Lucius isn't low tier (assuming you are doing Lyn mode), although I usually put him about equal with Canas. All three end up having very similar damage potentials, and end up near each other when tiered by my reckoning. Comparing the three together, their damage potential is similar enough to be a wash as the weaknesses of their weapon type ends up being compensated for by their stats, and while Lucius is the squishiest none of them are tanky enough for that to be a noticeable factor. That staff rank is Lucius's huge up side, while the utility of Dark magic is what pushes Canas up to his level, Erk's better availability in all modes is the only thing he has to even try to compete. Although if you skip Lyn mode Canas's higher level would give him the edge.

Now if you do not go through Lyn mode I could see someone dropping Erk and possibly even Lucius into the lower tiers (more likely into the borderline) due to their lower base levels and stats.

 

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Eleven units is plenty IMO.

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I'll just make a comment on each:
Wil (I'd argue the worst of the lot, so definite yes here)
Rebecca (I mean, much as I like her, she's still an unpromoted archer and has lower strength than Will.)
Rath (I mean, he's an archer, but his bases are better and he's got access to a mount, which certainly puts him over most bows.)
Nino (Yeah, absolutely difficult to bring in, especially with the amount of exp she'll need to be relevant.)
Renault (He's got decent stats and ranks, I kind of feel like he's a no.)
Lyn (but it's not unique) (Lyn's swordlocked until she can promote and she promotes to a bow infantry. I'd say yes.)
Louise (Alright, I guess she's bowlocked. Without Pent though. Otherwise are you kidding me?)
Wallace (Unpromoted Wallace absolutely counts here. Promoted likely counts too.)
Serra (Kind of? She's not exactly awful, but she's absolutely not a terrific combat unit after promotion imo. Moreso because her enemy phase will be painful if she gets hit.)
Karel (not karla because it's eliwood hard) (I'd say no, he's not Harken but he's a better boss fighter.)
Dorcas and Bartre (Yeah, both are safe picks here.)
Lucius (Now, I'd be remiss to say he's bad either. I might not be as enthusiastic about him/Erk, but neither of them would be bad to begin with.)
Matthew (You'll be needing a thief, but Matthew's not terrible. Just not as good as the other two.)
Isadora? (Yeah, she's promoted so I'd say she isn't awful. Her con really is her biggest issue.)
Guy (He could be a lot better but I think his bases will salvage him for a good bit and his promotion's a good enough class mostly hampered by sword's lack of 2-range)
Dart (I mean, I really don't think he's bad, though his promotion requires a specific item and so he's bad for ranked. He's also held back a bit by his low skill but I would also say it's not as bad. Your call here.)
Eliwood (He's swordlocked until he gets Durandal and even after that he's not exactly a gamebreaker.)

Lowen can also be pretty bad if he gets even a bit statscrewed, mainly because he's got the kind of bases that need a few good levels to save him.

So, I'd say Eliwood, Lyn, Wil, Rebecca, Nino, Wallace, Serra, Dorcas, Bartre, Matthew for certain and maybe on Rath, Guy, Dart, Louise and I'd argue Lowen.

Edited by Dayni

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23 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Also, why is Wallace listed twice? lol 

Cuz he's a big boi and he needs 2. (im not fixing it now because it's funny)

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