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I'm usually looking for ways I can make the Jagen weaken but not kill enemies so that my other units can snag the kill quickly and without suffering counterattacks. In FE7, you can give Marcus an iron sword and have him rescue a unit you don't plan to use (Dorcas, Bartre, Rebecca) which cuts his speed low enough to not double the early game enemies. Titania in FE9 is another easy unit to use from what I remember, since you can unequip her weapon and have her draw enemies to her so that the other Greil Mercs can safely walk around. But if either Marcus or Titania do end up picking up kills it's not that bad since their growths aren't atrocious and they remain viable up to the end of the game with their base stats.

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Actual Jagen can contribute quite a bit throughout the entire game.  It'll take a bit to get his staff level from D to C as a Bishop, but once he does, he can remotely heal with Physic.

The others are used early-on, and whether or not they stick around depends on what their stats look like.

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Sometimes, but it depends on the game and the difficulty. If it's a hard game or a higher difficulty level then I use the jeigan a lot early on to weaken enemies so other units can get the exp or I have them kill any particularly dangerous enemies. If they have good growths I might use them in the late game too. But if it's a lower difficulty and my units don't need the extra help then sometimes I don't use the jeigan.

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This post is referred to all pre-promoted units in early game.

It is based on the game and difficulty if I use them, and if so in which intensity. 

Like FE6 in hard mode is pretty much impossible to beat without using Marcus in the early chapters because all the other units have not the defensive stats to tank multiple enemies. Same with FE10 and Sothe, however it is a different thing in this game because he is forced in endgame, so no real reason to drop him. 

When the first tier units are trained well enough, the pre-promoted unit is benched because they will be outclassed statwise due to their weaker growths. Seth and FE9 Titania are exceptions in this regard.

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I tried using Titania in my Hit-Affinity run of FE9. She either got Strength/other stat screwed or just isn't that good, because she quickly dropped off the team and I wasn't even using Kieran to compare her unfavourably to (though his bases compared to her stats at the time weren't doing her favours). It did, however, teach me that base Titania is actually weighed down by Steel Axes- and I frequently faced that fact with having her not double things like priests while she could with Steel Lances by the time the rest of the party was on her level or lower.

At least she can feed kills, but I honestly prefer Oscar for that.

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Depends on the Jeigan that we are talking about

Fe7 Marcus, Seth, fe9 Titania, Jagen fe11 & Frederick I always use throughout the entire due to the fact that they can contribute for the entire game, Fe7 Marcus due to his amazing bases and decent growth rate, Seth & Titania because they have amazing bases and growths, fe11 Jagen because of his weapon rank and reclassing giving options and Frederick also because of reclassing and how well he supports some of the best characters in the game.

Oifey is in a weird position. On one hand he is the strongest unit when he joins and can be helpful for the entire game, but I never use him that much due to the fact that you don't really need him because of the competition he has from units who can easily catch up due to the arena and the paragon ring.

Dagdar, fe6 Marcus, Sothe, and fe12 Aran all have some use early on but are outclassed later on (although I often use fe6 Marcus later on for rescue drops) although how long they are used vary.

I haven't played much fe1, 2, 3 & 14 so can't talk about it.

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2 hours ago, LJwalhout said:

I haven't played much fe1, 2, 3 & 14 so can't talk about it.

I can at least say Gunter is nice enough. He is similar to Jakob and Felicia in how he kind of is an unpromoted promoted unit. The only difference is Gunter has better bases, but bad growths.

So, Gunter has access to Lv. 15 skills early, and can also reclass to some nice classes (notably Wyvern Lord, which is a great class for anyone to have). As a bonus, Gunter’s personal skill grants some offensive boosts to Corrin.

Now, he is more like a Jagen in the Revelation path, but I think Conquest Gunter might be a bit better due to better bases and actual supports (Gunter has no supports in Revelation despite having some in Conquest. The implied reason goes into spoiler territory).

So yeah, Gunter is a nice enough unit. Not exactly for he traditional reasons, but still.

Can @DehNutCase back me up here?

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10 minutes ago, Azure in a Roundabout said:

I can at least say Gunter is nice enough. He is similar to Jakob and Felicia in how he kind of is an unpromoted promoted unit. The only difference is Gunter has better bases, but bad growths.

So, Gunter has access to Lv. 15 skills early, and can also reclass to some nice classes (notably Wyvern Lord, which is a great class for anyone to have). As a bonus, Gunter’s personal skill grants some offensive boosts to Corrin.

Now, he is more like a Jagen in the Revelation path, but I think Conquest Gunter might be a bit better due to better bases and actual supports (Gunter has no supports in Revelation despite having some in Conquest. The implied reason goes into spoiler territory).

So yeah, Gunter is a nice enough unit. Not exactly for he traditional reasons, but still.

Can @DehNutCase back me up here?

Mind, part of the reason I can use Gunter is because I don't need a lot of stats on my units, so I can use him all the way to the endgame with just his bases if I wanted to. (I don't usually want to because I can just capture mooks with similar skill-sets and far better stats, though. In a non Castle Visit run Gunter does get a lot better for his skill access, but I don't play those kinds of runs.)

That is, Gunter is good for the traditional 'murder everything' reasons, but a lot of that is because Attack Stance is so strong in Conquest, and he happens to have tons of high mobility classes to take advantage of them. (The last map I did had ~40 hp, ~13 defense mages. Savage Blow takes away 8 hp per stack, Camilla has ~60 Atk so that's 23 damage from attack stance, meaning I'd only need 19 Atk to ORKO after one stack of Savage Blow and Rose's Thorns. Base level Mozu does this easily---assuming you aren't being stupid and actually forge her a bronze lance---and Gunter isn't Mozu.)

 

You can't use him for every combat, but he's primarily a support unit anyway, so you just make sure he takes the combat he can take when your unit-turns are tight. Outside of combat he gets skills 15 levels before everyone else which is stupid good when combined with his decent skill-pool. (He has Rally Res (From Jakob), Rally Def, Rally Skill for support stuff, and like 3 or 4 Breakers for combat stuff.)

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Generally, though, it is recommended you use the Jagen/Oifey in all the games, for various reasons. At least, from what I have seen.

1: Jagen is an early-game high-movement damage dealer, I guess.

3 Book 1: Same here.

3 Book 2: Also same. Notably, Aran can go get the Lady Sword in the early game the easiest.

4: Oifey has a horse. That is all.

5: Dagdar does well with capturing enemies and dealing damage, and Eyvel can just kill things and provide a magical sword for the others when she leaves.

6: Marcus is mandatory for Hard mode early game.

7: Marcus can be useful for he entire game thanks to weak mooks.

8: Lol Seth.

9: Titania has a horse. Axes are good, too.

10: Sothe carries the Dawn Brigade until they git gud.

11: Jagen can reclass to Dracoknight, and has access to Horseslayer right of the bat (even if you do not have one yet). Is also one of the few units who can do things early game.

12: Aran is the same here.

13: Frederick is Mandatory (with a capital M) on Lunatic and Lunatic+.

14: Gunter has already been explained. If Jakob and Felicia count as Oifeys, they are the same, but better. Felicia is similar to Gunter, as she is a support unit. Jakob is a combat specialist, and one of the most versatile in the game, arguably.

2/15 have no Jagens.

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I tent to use the Jagen for some time to weaken enemies or kill others. Like it makes the game easier.

For Oifeys I actually use and have them thourghout the entire game or most off if someone with better stats comes along like a later prepromote.

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Normally, no. Unless I really want to try new units. The reason? Not because I'm falling into "pitfalls" for not using them, but for the simple fact that I consider most Jeigans boring, bland, generic and uninteresting as characters. Or, in Sothe's case, get on my nerves so much I wish they didn't exist at all.
The only two I ever used seriously are Titania in my first run of FE9 (in which I learned that I REALLY don't like the Cavalier class) and Frederick in Awakening, because he's freaking Frederick, managing to make the whole "I am loyal to my lord/lady" business hilarious. He almost feels like a parody of every other Jeigan that came before him and I love that.

When it comes to prepromotes that are recruited later, it depends on if I like them or not. If I do, I usually compare them to units I already have and consider how to integrate them into my strategies. If they fit what my team still lacks, they're fine, if they don't, they're on the bench. If I don't like them, they land directly on the bench, no ifs or but(t)s about it.

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I use my Jagens freely, I see no reason not to. Convenience is a nice thing, when they stop being particularly convenient or I'm simply not wanting to use them anymore, I drop them. No different than any other unit for me. If they get kills early on, a few EXP isn't going to make a huge difference in the course of an entire game.

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I use Titania in Path of Radiance as a meat shield until Chapter 19 is over, and then she then gets benched for the rest of the game. As for Sothe, let's just say that when he auto-promotes at the end of 4-P, he does so at level 6...

Oh, an I use Frederick a bit too.

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6 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

The only two I ever used seriously are Titania in my first run of FE9 (in which I learned that I REALLY don't like the Cavalier class)

I'm honestly never quite sure whether I don't like using non-Astrid Paladins in FE9 because of their stats or because of their class balance. Probably the former, since the paladins can pretend to be competent (as best they can) in FE10. But it's not like I've had good results with them in my time in other games- though it has been a while.

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I love Jagens and find them amazing to use, Oifeys on the other hand I'm not much of a fan of but I'll still use them barring Seth.

Jagens are always part of my core team through the bulk of the game, like I level them up and train them because some runs their stats can be pretty funny even though they get a lot weaker later. I don't feed them so many kills just because it's optimal, but because I really enjoy doing it, especailly the original Jagen himself. One time I got STR, SPD, and DEF on his first level up on Chapter 2 of fe11, and I since then I saw the potential of training Jagens, and grew to love it.

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In earlygame, they're generally my last move on a given turn. If I move all my less experienced core, and wind up needing someone else deleted or a gap filled, that's where they go.

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Jeigans are early-game weaponless meatshields and village-savers, then they get benched the moment their lives start being in danger. If I plan to use an Oifey they're mostly treated as Jeigans until the rest of the team catches up to their level (after which they're usually the worst part of my team).

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10 hours ago, bethany81707 said:

I'm honestly never quite sure whether I don't like using non-Astrid Paladins in FE9 because of their stats or because of their class balance. Probably the former, since the paladins can pretend to be competent (as best they can) in FE10. But it's not like I've had good results with them in my time in other games- though it has been a while.

Yeah, same here. Except for their movement, Cavaliers usually suffer from middling to terrible stats in all my playthroughs. I never once had a single Fire Emblem playthrough where any Cavalier I used was anything above mediocre when compared to my other units, not even Mathilda or Zeke in Echoes. Thus, they usually die faster to things than I'd like, making their high movement a moot point for me. If I really want high movement units, I'll take Wyvern Riders or Pegasus Knights (not the Tellius ones, because I never had a good one in one of those, either) over Cavs any day of the week, to be honest.
Long story short, I never really understood the Cav hype the FE fanbase at large has.

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10 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Yeah, same here. Except for their movement, Cavaliers usually suffer from middling to terrible stats in all my playthroughs. I never once had a single Fire Emblem playthrough where any Cavalier I used was anything above mediocre when compared to my other units, not even Mathilda or Zeke in Echoes. Thus, they usually die faster to things than I'd like, making their high movement a moot point for me. If I really want high movement units, I'll take Wyvern Riders or Pegasus Knights (not the Tellius ones, because I never had a good one in one of those, either) over Cavs any day of the week, to be honest.
Long story short, I never really understood the Cav hype the FE fanbase at large has.

I have a natural knack for pegasus knights- though no force in the universe can save Sigrun- and Jill usually works out, so I at least get to have them fly around. But for the most part, the Canto effect is used for getting the horses back to safety than pressing them further into danger. And the RD horses are usually the ones struggling to double things come lategame.

My Sacred Stones runs were so long ago, and the more memorable ones banned Seth, but somehow I feel like my positive pegasus luck is balanced out by terrible cavalier luck, and I could very well believe I am capable of having a terrible Seth.

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2 minutes ago, bethany81707 said:

I have a natural knack for pegasus knights- though no force in the universe can save Sigrun- and Jill usually works out, so I at least get to have them fly around. But for the most part, the Canto effect is used for getting the horses back to safety than pressing them further into danger. And the RD horses are usually the ones struggling to double things come lategame.

My Sacred Stones runs were so long ago, and the more memorable ones banned Seth, but somehow I feel like my positive pegasus luck is balanced out by terrible cavalier luck, and I could very well believe I am capable of having a terrible Seth.

Believe it or not, I HAD a terrible Seth once. He struggled to fight against simple midgame mooks and every other unit I had at the time was stronger than him. Needless to say, I benched him. It was the one time I actually tried to use him, too.

Canto didn't really do anything to save Cavs for me. Oscar and Kieran usually ended up so terribad, just fielding them felt like I made things unnecessarily harder for myself. I never had much luck with Jill, either, and Haar only really showed his prowess in FE10. No, Tellius, especially FE9, is Laguz territory for me. Lethe, Mordecai and Muarim, as well as Janaff and Ulki (Ajuga for any German person) are just that good. In my opinion, at least. Ranulf is serviceable, too, but the others are better than him, I feel.

Before a mod flags us for going off topic: I usually use Jeigans to carry excess items until a convoy becomes available. Also, the Silver Lance they usually carry around goes to my strongest lance unit once they reach the necessary weapon rank. Frederick is the only exception to this, since I always use him. He's still mediocre once my other units start gaining levels, but I don't care in his case, because I actually like his character. I'm not biased, I swear!

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14 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Also, the Silver Lance they usually carry around goes to my strongest lance unit once they reach the necessary weapon rank.

To be honest, I've played so much Tellius compared to other FEs that I forgot Jagens do this. Doesn't help Silver weapons compare almost objectively unfavourably to Steel Heavies in RD and I rarely make the jump to using Silvers in PoR- though to be fair, I so rarely use Silvers in all FEs, so the initial one I got from the Jagen is probably still in the convoy with less than five uses scratched off.

With Sothe in FE10, he's got exclusive access to Knives until Part 4, so even if the Kard was a good knife by lategame standards, it's not like anyone else can nick it and start swinging it around. Laguz as 'prepromoted units to get you out of pinches' have the same flaw where their Strikes are non-transferable, and most items they have in their inventories are specifically for laguz barring the occasional Concoction or Elixir.

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1 minute ago, bethany81707 said:

To be honest, I've played so much Tellius compared to other FEs that I forgot Jagens do this. Doesn't help Silver weapons compare almost objectively unfavourably to Steel Heavies in RD and I rarely make the jump to using Silvers in PoR- though to be fair, I so rarely use Silvers in all FEs, so the initial one I got from the Jagen is probably still in the convoy with less than five uses scratched off.

With Sothe in FE10, he's got exclusive access to Knives until Part 4, so even if the Kard was a good knife by lategame standards, it's not like anyone else can nick it and start swinging it around. Laguz as 'prepromoted units to get you out of pinches' have the same flaw where their Strikes are non-transferable, and most items they have in their inventories are specifically for laguz barring the occasional Concoction or Elixir.

Yeah, I almost never use Silver weapons in RD, either. Weapon ranks increase pretty fast in that game, so there's really no reason to use them for WEXP, I find.

The only chapter where Sothe does see use is the first Scrub Brigade chapter in part 3, where I usually have him go ape with the Beastkiller knife.

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14 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Yeah, I almost never use Silver weapons in RD, either. Weapon ranks increase pretty fast in that game, so there's really no reason to use them for WEXP, I find.

Silvers are A Rank, so they're not even good for that. Especially in Path of Radiance, where they're the end of the line- if you can use a Silver Axe, which Titania would theoretically have given the player access to, you can use any axe you can legitimately obtain, because there's no Urvan. At least Titania does have the Axe rank to use Silver Axes when they come around.
Sothe's has a B Rank in Knives, which is what the Kard is, but he doesn't have a good enough rank to have a Silver knife to distribute if anyone even wanted one.

Though it does bear mentioning that, in regards to prepromoted units holding Silver Lances, Tauroneo has one. Once Tauroneo leaves the party, this is good for Aran (starts D), Fiona (starts C), promoted Jill (starts D), and promoted Meg (starts E).
If we're counting Tauroneo as a Jagen/general prepromote for the purposes of this topic (his contribution as one is debatable), I have indeed used Tauroneo- he even came to the Tower one time. He's... a unit. All his stats are solid, he doesn't really shine in anything. There are prepromotes everywhere and I've given most of them a fair share- I think Volug, Oliver, Giffca and Volke are the only ones left, depending on who you count and why you count them. Radiant Dawn's system in general is a pain to apply terminology and series staples to.

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