Jump to content
Jedi

FE Twitter shows new Anna design, some footage (& on-going character profiles)

Recommended Posts

19 minutes ago, kratoscar2008 said:

Females do the most actually. Thats why artists and cosplayers usually choose the attractive characters to draw and cosplay respectively. 

And no most criticism has come from the internet which does not has any correlation with the real world (Female Byleth is basically like Camilla where the internet hates her but in actuality she is pretty popular), Byleth already has lots of fanart that arent about changing her design and in Japan even among females female characters being conventionally good looking is desirable as they dont really put their political beliefs into it like the west do. Females wants the characters to be appealing, not to send a political message.

Its time to put down this myth that females only like politically correct female designs, there is a reason why most mangaband doujin artists are female and their designs are always good looking barring some exceptions.

1. Having female characters that aren't conventionally attractive isn't "A political message". It's just good design to make your characters visually different from each other in more ways than changing their hair and boob size. 

2. "From the internet" is still from people. And I've seen quite a lot of women who play Fire Emblem on here, reddit and other forums who don't like the design. Camilla's popularity is also "from the internet" so your example doesn't make sense.

3. You can want an attractive female protagonist as a self-insert or like cute female characters without wanting every single female character in anime to look like that.

But this is all beside the point. The point was, I certainly don't believe that people on average prefer female characters to male ones. Even in geeky male culture people tend to just have one or two "waifu's" they like the most, and then their favourite characters after that are a fairly even mix. And there's a significant portion of female gamers, anime fans and geeks who are much more interested in male characters for a similar reason to why guys tend to be more interested in female ones. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here we go with the "political agenda" stuff again, how come I always see this exact phrase when people talk about female character designs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, EJ107 said:

1. Having female characters that aren't conventionally attractive isn't "A political message". It's just good design to make your characters visually different from each other in more ways than changing their hair and boob size. 

2. "From the internet" is still from people. And I've seen quite a lot of women who play Fire Emblem on here, reddit and other forums who don't like the design. Camilla's popularity is also "from the internet" so your example doesn't make sense.

3. You can want an attractive female protagonist as a self-insert or like cute female characters without wanting every single female character in anime to look like that.

But this is all beside the point. The point was, I certainly don't believe that people on average prefer female characters to male ones. Even in geeky male culture people tend to just have one or two "waifu's" they like the most, and then their favourite characters after that are a fairly even mix. And there's a significant portion of female gamers, anime fans and geeks who are much more interested in male characters for a similar reason to why guys tend to be more interested in female ones. 

1 it is if your only reason for wanting it is anything derived from the desire to be get inclusivity points or its something imposed on the creator to fill a polical quota. The fact that Female Byleth exists and most of the complains comes from people complaining how she is sexier than the male one shows that.

2 Those places hates avatar, hates S supports and constantly complain about the newer games. They dont represent the consumer base. When i talk about the internet i mean mainly game forums, which hates popular characters since its mostly visited by disgrunted old fans of the series.

3 Maybe but if the creator wants every female to be conventionally good looking they should be allowed to, in this case Female Byleth design is fine as she is good looking like they wanted.

Maybe but there is a reason why most banners are usually female in heroes, females gets the most fan art and hell we have 3 house leaders and Edelgard has been by far the most advertised one while Dimitri and Claude are mostly sidelined. And its not only males, again cosplayers and fan artists usually go for the most conventionally good looking characters, which are usually female.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, EJ107 said:

And I've seen quite a lot of women who play Fire Emblem on here, reddit and other forums who don't like the design.

The thing with forums is that they are localized and don't represent the whole fandom. So i wouldn't use forums as the nail in the coffin, especially since some are just toxic wastelands *cough* GameFaqs *cough*.

37 minutes ago, kratoscar2008 said:

The fact that Female Byleth exists and most of the complains comes from people complaining how she is sexier than the male one shows that.

Makes me wonder how people would've reacted if New Mystery was released in the current age considering that Male Kris and Female Kris have drastically different designs whereas the only difference in clothing between Male Byleth and Female Byleth is the latter having mid-riff and the leggings.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Makes me wonder how people would've reacted if New Mystery was released in the current age considering that Male Kris and Female Kris have drastically different designs whereas the only difference in clothing between Male Byleth and Female Byleth is the latter having mid-riff and the leggings.

The Kris’s are different but not drastically so and F!Kris’s outfit doesn’t look terrible. I mean she just shows some leg compared to the Male one and loses the gauntlet (which why does M!Kris only wear it on one hand???)

Compared to F!Corrin who gets two left feet on top of inexplicably losing her pants/leggings despite everything else being the same and F!Byleth who tbh I don’t even mind that she wants to shows off some skin but that outfit just looks hideous. Also, leaving your soft vulnerable stomach opened and exposed like that in the battlefield is asking for a good stabbing. Not that some fabric would have stopped any weapon from impaling you but it almost makes me think of a target like “Here’s my stomach. Aim at it with your weapons.” Yeah idk why but I really hate that midriff because of that. Also her shorts look as if their unzipped like please, come on, you’re a mercenary and a teacher you can’t just go walking around with your shorts coming undone like that. Zip them up. What a mess. Especially since the male counterpart looks so professional which makes her look even worse in comparison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

Yeah you are right. Its tiring to read people dissing her design saying thats what not what female players want when she is designed for the japanese people (Including women) who dont really care about the political side and if the data that says that there is a considerable female fanabse then those females also helps characters like Camilla become popular (That data only included the japanese i believe).

Its sometimes surprising to find western fanart of Byleth without a political agenda but when it does its nice.

There's nothing political about wanting to have both the Male and Female avatar in 3H have a professional look and not have one of them look like some kind of escort.

Can you link me to a poll for Fates where we can see what characters male/female players voted for?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Also, leaving your soft vulnerable stomach opened and exposed like that in the battlefield is asking for a good stabbing. Not that some fabric would have stopped any weapon from impaling you but it almost makes me think of a target like “Here’s my stomach. Aim at it with your weapons.” Yeah idk why but I really hate that midriff because of that.

I don't even mind the midriff that much because it's tame as hell compared some of the other outfits in the series. Never mind the fact that most characters have like very minimal pieces of armor. So it's like, whatever. I don't mind it.

53 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Also her shorts look as if their unzipped like please, come on, you’re a mercenary and a teacher you can’t just go walking around with your shorts coming undone like that. Zip them up. What a mess.

I don't really see that. They look like regular shorts to me. What annoys me the most is the leggings. Like, what are those leggings? Why do they have a Goddamn mural? I don't mind that she's wearing leggings but why do they look like that?

The saving grace of Byleth's design is the trench coat. Trench coats are cool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

There's nothing political about wanting to have both the Male and Female avatar in 3H have a professional look and not have one of them look like some kind of escort.

 

Say it louder so they can hear you in the back.

Like I don't even dislike female Byleth's design, I just don't think it's fitting for a teacher. Like if she was just a random character, the chances are I wouldn't have even thought much of her design. Thankfully though looking at how the avatars seem to be able to change their classes, that could mean we won't have to be stuck wearing that outfit the whole game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Rose482 said:

Like I don't even dislike female Byleth's design, I just don't think it's fitting for a teacher.

Agreed. I have honestly warmed up to the outfit itself. However, I still do not think it fits a teacher (a military one at that) or a mercenary. Women can want things without it being "political" as others have pointed out. Also, some said the stockings/leggings look like a mural. Lol, I agree. Why printed leggings? Why not a solid color? Hahaha.

Edited by PrincessAlyson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

38 minutes ago, Rose482 said:

Say it louder so they can hear you in the back.

Like I don't even dislike female Byleth's design, I just don't think it's fitting for a teacher. Like if she was just a random character, the chances are I wouldn't have even thought much of her design. Thankfully though looking at how the avatars seem to be able to change their classes, that could mean we won't have to be stuck wearing that outfit the whole game.

I agree! She does not dress like a teacher or like a seasoned mercenary/ knight at all. While her outfit might be normal for the series, it is still really strange for the role of the character.

4 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

 

I believe that the company is under the impression that a larger percent of the players are guys, and they are probably correct about that. This might be why there are a larger pool of conventionally attractive female characters to appease the larger percent.

 Regardless, I think it is great that there are a variety of appearances for the male characters in the game. I'm sure there are more characters yet to be introduced, but so far the female characters don't have as much body type variety and I feel that is a shame and very samey. Where are all the muscular female characters? I would like to see another Rinkah or Meg.

As for the male students, some of them just have really unfortunate haircuts. Lorentz wins ugliest haircut hands down. The style does nothing to compliment his face. Lol! Dimitri has spaghetti hair(despite this I rather like his hair), Ignace's haircut is also kinda strange, and ever since somebody made a connection between the jedi padawan side braid and Claude's hair I can't erase the overlapping images in my head. And is it just me or are Ashe's eyes crooked(possibly it is his hair that makes his face so wonky)? Oh, well.

edit: also I really want to see some older characters both female and male join the party. That would be awesome!

Edited by grin_fish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Armagon said:

That could be a possibility. Do we know if the art director in Three Houses is the same one as in Fates? I imagine no because i'd assume the one in Echoes was also a different art director.

I didn't mean Fates's art director specifically to clarify, just one in general who said... well I can't quite assemble proper language outlining that an artist for this assignment lean towards catering towards a heterosexual male audience in designs. I mean I just did, but it sounds awkward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rose482 said:

Say it louder so they can hear you in the back.

Like I don't even dislike female Byleth's design, I just don't think it's fitting for a teacher. Like if she was just a random character, the chances are I wouldn't have even thought much of her design. Thankfully though looking at how the avatars seem to be able to change their classes, that could mean we won't have to be stuck wearing that outfit the whole game.

To be fair. it's not like the plot starts off like "hey bylese. I just got you a job as a teacher next week. Be sure to show some skin!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

3 Maybe but if the creator wants every female to be conventionally good looking they should be allowed to

But they.....are allowed to do so. Fire Emblem has always had casts of almost exclusively cute or attractive woman. Unless a Fire Emblem girl is elderly like Niime she is almost automatically good looking, with only Dorothy really being an exception. And this has never been presented as a problem unless it involved half naked children. 

People's issue with Camilla has never been that she's good looking but that she shameless about it. Its not that people wanted Camilla to be unattractive but that they felt she would be even more attractive with some dignity. I always found a woman being regal to be a really attractive trait in a character design. It works wonders for Sigrun. 

Quote

And no most criticism has come from the internet which does not has any correlation with the real world (Female Byleth is basically like Camilla where the internet hates her but in actuality she is pretty popular)

Generally speaking being really popular and being divisive aren't mutually exclusive. A lot of characters are popular for appealing to a very specific audience. And this can be a very double edged sword. I'm pretty into the Warriors series and there's a certain character who's a huge combination all sorts of Moe tropes. Moe's are huge in Japan and in some places on the internet so she became a big hit. But there's also a sizable crowd that really hates the whole Moe thing. Same with tsundere's. Severa and Takumi are textbook tsundere's and gain their charm from it. But tsundere's are a pretty devices trope as well and this turns people away. This even applies to artstyles. No one can say Xenoblade II is unpopular but a significant amount of people just refused to pick it up thanks to it being so animoe. 

A character being made to appeal with a specific trope in mind isn't bad and its often really successful. But the people for who that does nothing or who actually hate it aren't any less real. They aren't figments of anyone's imagination. Camilla's popularity isn't in question but that doesn't make the large number who dislike her a fantasy either. The fandom is large enough for both to exist and Camilla is so wrapped up in the waifu culture that plenty of people have a reason to look down on her. 

 

5 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

1 it is if your only reason for wanting it is anything derived from the desire to be get inclusivity points or its something imposed on the creator to fill a polical quota.

Yes. But how many times does this actually happen? Its incidentally, a freak accident, an exception. hot woman are more marketable so I suspect most art departments get the  memo to get MORE over the top instead of less. I find it more believable that a lot of people wanting more character variety genuinely want more variety instead of merely being ''woke'' 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotta love how we somehow spiraled back into discussing fanservicey character designs and some how brought politics into it, joy.

 

On 5/5/2019 at 7:45 PM, ΔZZ said:

someone on tumblr pointed this out and I thought it would be interesting to share (also apologises if this is the wrong place to post this)

tumblr_pr1idmpLeg1rzdb7lo1_540.png

Calling it now, Sothis is the Goddess not an original take I know, role with it. If she can appear far less old than she is, speak to people telepathically, and rewind time itself then Byleth's definitely brain-talking to Rule 63 God. It would explain the similarities in the attire (also she has the same symbol that old dude with the whip sword had, on the gold bit on her chest, since that guy is definitely going to be evil I'm guessing we have another case of "the goddess split herself in two" which would also explain the amnesia).

That, and she has pointy manakete ears. So I forsee a dragon final boss, it's tradition after all. :P:

Edited by TheDreamReturns

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rose482 said:

Like I don't even dislike female Byleth's design, I just don't think it's fitting for a teacher.

You'd be surprised with what teachers can get away with these days

Spoiler

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor Bitch sensei

Spoiler

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor My hero midnight

Spoiler

Gerelateerde afbeelding

 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

You'd be surprised with what teachers can get away with these days

  Reveal hidden contents

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor Bitch sensei

  Reveal hidden contents

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor My hero midnight

  Reveal hidden contents

Gerelateerde afbeelding

 

I bet Tapey there is having the best day ever, or would be if he were awake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Armagon said:

I don't really see that.

Spoiler

TtvAJen.jpg

xymMpWT.jpg

ioOLzh5.jpg

I fail to see that as anything other than the zipper being down. I’ve never seen shorts that have v-neck design to them.

3 hours ago, grin_fish said:

As for the male students, some of them just have really unfortunate haircuts. Lorentz wins ugliest haircut hands down. The style does nothing to compliment his face. Lol! Dimitri has spaghetti hair(despite this I rather like his hair), Ignace's haircut is also kinda strange, and ever since somebody made a connection between the jedi padawan side braid and Claude's hair I can't erase the overlapping images in my head. And is it just me or are Ashe's eyes crooked(possibly it is his hair that makes his face so wonky)? Oh, well.

I like that honestly. Not everyone has to be beautiful with perfect features and that includes hair. And I actually like Ignace’s hair. It’s ugly but in like a cute way.

Also, Ignace is a dude?! I thought he was a women this whole time.

2 hours ago, TheDreamReturns said:

I'm guessing we have another case of "the goddess split herself in two" which would also explain the amnesia

I’ve been thinking that too but I really hope it’s not the case because Jeralt also seems like a copy of Greil. I really don’t want the story to simply be a reskinned Tellius.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I’ve been thinking that too but I really hope it’s not the case because Jeralt also seems like a copy of Greil. I really don’t want the story to simply be a reskinned Tellius.

As a devoted Telliusian, I will agree with this sentiment. I loves my world of Tellius, but to paraphrase a famed Karl Marx quote "History repeats itself twice, the first as tragedy, the second as farce". -Not to call Binding Blade farce, even though it is a remix of Mystery of the Emblem's two books combined, and SS of Gaiden, and Tellius itself borrowing from Jugdral. I wouldn't want 3H to be a Tellius repeat, particularly if the world building, which Tellius relatively excelled at, was not at all present.

Although the goddess split here could and hopefully would be different in some way. As is, it already is to a small degree at least, since neither goddess-half was amnesiac in RD. Yet it is wholly possible at this point the Goddess had a Bad Side and Good Side and whilst unable to destroy the Good Side, the Bad Side forced her to flee and inflicted a severe enough injury to cause memory loss. That would be fairly close to Tellius still.

 

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Generally speaking being really popular and being divisive aren't mutually exclusive.

Au contraire, divisive and popular tend to go together I think. If you aren't popular, you can't create a truly great rift amongst people, since a great rift should be spoken, not just quietly unsaid but present. Silence and a great rift coexisting might be the sad case for severe inequalities of wealth in the world, but not opinions of fictional characters.

 

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

No one can say Xenoblade II is unpopular but a significant amount of people just refused to pick it up thanks to it being so animoe. 

It's mostly Poppi that would do that I think. Get past her, and nobody in the main cast is particularly cutesy I think. Pretty skimpy outfits for the female Aegis despite Malos wearing far more than a thong, and a significantly female-slanted Rare Blade selection with often fanservicey designs, but I guess from what very little I know that that wouldn't be "moe". Just fanservicey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I fail to see that as anything other than the zipper being down. 

I don't see as the zipper being down because there is no zipper to begin with.

2 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I’ve never seen shorts that have v-neck design to them.

Neither have I but i can say that about a few other FE outfits. And besides, shorts with a v-neck is honestly one of the least strange pieces of clothing i've seen in fictional media.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It's mostly Poppi that would do that I think. Get past her, and nobody in the main cast is particularly cutesy I think. Pretty skimpy outfits for the female Aegis despite Malos wearing far more than a thong, and a significantly female-slanted Rare Blade selection with often fanservicey designs, but I guess from what very little I know that that wouldn't be "moe". Just fanservicey.

Poppi Alpha and Ursula are like the only Blades i would consider "moe". But like you said, no one is particularly cutsey in a moe kinda way.

As a fun little tidbit, I do remember reading that the genders for most of the Rare Blades were never determined before hand so most of them being female was pretty much just a thing that happened when they were being designed. The rules Monolith Soft gave the Rare Blade character designers were basically "here's the weapon type, here's the elemental attribute, the rest is up to you". 

Edited by Armagon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Armagon said:

As a fun little tidbit, I do remember reading that the genders for most of the Rare Blades were never determined before hand so most of them being female was pretty much just a thing that happened when they were being designed. The rules Monolith Soft gave the Rare Blade character designers were basically "here's the weapon type, here's the elemental attribute, the rest is up to you". 

Well that is unexpected. Some of them just seem intentionally fanservicey, Dahlia stands out in my mind, her Blade Quest and personality shown therein is so simple and humble, but her design is such a frostbiting contrast. It's like mixing peanut butter and jelly with foie gras.

As an aside, did they happen to provide any explanation as to why Dual Ring commons exist? I find it a strange weapon type. Nobody but Nia has a main Blade whose weapon type is shared with commons, and although it is shared with commons, there are no other Dual Ring Rares but Dromarch. It makes the type sorta irrelevant, since who'd use the commons? The fact that the only common animal-type Blades are Dual Rings is a further oddity.

What role do Dual Rings serve? Bitball and Knuckles already provide two Healer roles, Tank has only Katana and Shield Hammer. And why Attack has three types is probably because Megalance and Axe are both physical, while Ether Cannon provides for an Ether-oriented offense. Given damage dealing is the most important thing, I think I can understand why they'd have three Attack weapon types.

 

13 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Neither have I but i can say that about a few other FE outfits. And besides, shorts with a v-neck is honestly one of the least strange pieces of clothing i've seen in fictional media.

This reminds me of a scrapped-before-final-game-release quasi-FE fashion choice:

Image result for tokyo mirage sessions zipper panties

Zipper panties!

Thank Naga they opted against it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I don't see as the zipper being down because there is no zipper to begin with.

Ok I know there’s no zipper being shown but to be fair do zippers ever get shown on any article of clothing in FE? Could just be a stylistic choice. Regardless, zipper or no zipper it still looks like the same way any unbuttoned shorts with the zipper down would look like.

24 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Neither have I but i can say that about a few other FE outfits. And besides, shorts with a v-neck is honestly one of the least strange pieces of clothing i've seen in fictional media.

It’s not the strangest thing I’ve ever seen either (even with just considering irl clothing) but only because it’s not strange doesn’t mean it’s good.

Cockroaches aren’t strange but I doubt most are thrilled finding them in their kitchen. That’s what her shorts are. Cockroach shorts. Not strange but I still don’t like them just because their unfitting for her role as a teacher. If her role was that of someone where professionalism isn’t expected I’d have a lot less trouble with her design.

Edited by NegativeExponents-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you know what is important? The actual plot and story discussion.

Do you know what isn't important? Whiny fashion discussion.

 

Anyway, so, Hubert is sort of giving me vibes of Sebastian from Black Butler. I don't think he's a villain or traitor, however. A part of me wonders: Could Jeralt and Rea have had a fling that produced Byleth?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

As an aside, did they happen to provide any explanation as to why Dual Ring commons exist?

I don't think they did. I'd say it's because there were no Rare Dual Ring Blades in the guidelines but why they weren't there is a mystery.

13 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Cockroaches aren’t strange but I doubt but most are thrilled finding them in their kitchen. That’s what her shorts are. Cockroach shorts. Not strange but I still don’t like them just because their unfitting for her role as a teacher. If her role was that of someone where professionalism isn’t expected I’d have a lot less trouble with her design.

Comparing her shorts to cockroaches is kinda harsh. I wouldn't got that far imo. 

The way i see it, her design as a teacher is only unprofessional if we look at it through a modern eye. If we look at it from a medieval fantasy standpoint, it's a lot less weird. Judging from what we know, Byleth was given the position as teacher for being skilled on the battlefield so at that point, what she wears becomes irrelevant.

But that's just a guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Comparing her shorts to cockroaches is kinda harsh. I wouldn't got that far imo. 

The way i see it, her design as a teacher is only unprofessional if we look at it through a modern eye. If we look at it from a medieval fantasy standpoint, it's a lot less weird. Judging from what we know, Byleth was given the position as teacher for being skilled on the battlefield so at that point, what she wears becomes irrelevant.

But that's just a guess.

I suppose you’re right about that. It’s pretty obvious she didn’t become a teacher through conventional means so her not dressing the part is excusable I guess. Especially if she’s just a combat instructor and not an academic one.

Still don’t like how it meshes with the rest of her outfit but we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Do you know what is important? The actual plot and story discussion.

Do you know what isn't important? Whiny fashion discussion.

 

Anyway, so, Hubert is sort of giving me vibes of Sebastian from Black Butler. I don't think he's a villain or traitor, however. A part of me wonders: Could Jeralt and Rea have had a fling that produced Byleth?

We have so little information regarding the plot and story that I don’t think  discussions on it now will go very far. Also  character designs have been part of FE discussions for a while now so I don’t see any problem with it. 

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s mentioned that Byleth’s mom is dead? I might be remembering things wrong though.

15 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I don't think they did. I'd say it's because there were no Rare Dual Ring Blades in the guidelines but why they weren't there is a mystery.

Comparing her shorts to cockroaches is kinda harsh. I wouldn't got that far imo. 

The way i see it, her design as a teacher is only unprofessional if we look at it through a modern eye. If we look at it from a medieval fantasy standpoint, it's a lot less weird. Judging from what we know, Byleth was given the position as teacher for being skilled on the battlefield so at that point, what she wears becomes irrelevant.

But that's just a guess.

Judging her clothing choice from a medieval fantasy standpoint makes it even weirder because nobody dresses like that in medieval ages. It is also the reason why Dorothea’s modern hat bothers some people. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...