FE Twitter shows new Anna design, some footage (& on-going character profiles)

[Zapp Branniglenn]

13 minutes ago, Onestep said:

We have no real facts of the situation. Edelgard being ready to fight does not mean that a mercenary (presumably hired to protect her or travelling in her company) should treat her as being combat capable. What if Byleth did his sneak attack, but the bandit managed to seriously wound Edelgard in the process? What if Edelgard's nerve breaks? We KNOW that this is near the beginning of the game, so Byleth has no reason to trust her or her capabilities. What we get from this is that Byleth chooses to trust their own skills over an unknown factor, in order to protect a VIP. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

This logic would hold if not for another point I brought up. Edelgard may not notice Byleth in time. And in fact his running up to her would have served as a deadly distraction if he arrived too late. And if she didn't notice Byleth at all (something he leaves to fate by not announcing his presence), she may have lunged forward, plunging her dagger into Byleth's back as he arrives. If he just said something then I'm okay with him sliding in front of two people engaged in combat. Taking this scene as it is with the facts we have, it's just a sloppily written sequence that takes away Edelgard's agency in order to create the spectacle of Byleth knocking a dude ten feet. Movies and games can be full of these style-over-substance scenes and they're worth pointing out.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Glennstavos

[ZeManaphy]

Ehh. I'm iffy on her design. I kinda like the Fates Version of Anna better, probably because of the eyes are smaller in Fates, and I really don't like how big they are in proportion to her eye sockets. My question is Karen Strassman gonna reprise her role? Is she playable as well?

[Cysx]

10 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

This logic would hold if not for another point I brought up. Edelgard may not notice Byleth in time. And in fact his running up to her would have served as a deadly distraction if he arrived too late. And if she didn't notice Byleth at all (something he leaves to fate by not announcing his presence), she may have lunged forward, plunging her dagger into Byleth's back as he arrives. If he just said something then I'm okay with him sliding in front of two people engaged in combat. Taking this scene as it is with the facts we have, it's just a sloppily written sequence that takes away Edelgard's agency in order to create the spectacle of Byleth knocking a dude ten feet. Movies and games can be full of these style-over-substance scenes and they're worth pointing out.

I say let's wait for a bit more context on this one. However, the issue with trying to intercept the guy instead of body blocking is that it's much less effective when it comes to protection. If the primary goal was to protect Edelgard, which seemed to be the case, I think it makes some amount of sense. Furthermore, well Byleth doesn't get axed in the back in that scene, meaning it's after Sothis rewinds time and thus they already know what's going to happen.

Finally, looking at Edelgard's reaction after the save, it seems pretty obvious that she was in way over her head there, to me anyway.

[Onestep]

5 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

This logic would hold if not for another point I brought up. Edelgard may not notice Byleth in time. And in fact his running up to her would have served as a deadly distraction if he arrived too late. And if she didn't notice Byleth at all (something he leaves to fate by not announcing his presence), she may have lunged forward, plunging her dagger into Byleth's back as he arrives. If he just said something then I'm okay with him sliding in front of two people engaged in combat. Taking this scene as it is with the facts we have, it's just a sloppily written sequence that takes away Edelgard's agency in order to create the spectacle of Byleth knocking a dude ten feet. Movies and games can be full of these style-over-substance scenes and they're worth pointing out.

The only point I agree with you on is the silence, which is, as I said, probably a limitation of IS not wanting Byleth to speak in cutscenes (for some reason). Taking this scene with the fact we have, taking this stylistic choice in to account, we have a scene that shows Byleth making a decision to protect their VIP, even at the risk of their own life.

And that's important, because this is the scene where Byleth get's an Axe to the back, and only Sothis's ability to rewind time stops the game from ending there. I think you're forgetting that. Byleth literally blocks the attack on Edelgard with his own life the first time round, and only a rewind let's them get a clean parry. Byleth overestimates their skills and pays for it the first time round, but still makes the same decision to move to block the attack the second time round, because they STILL don't trust Edelgard to be able to block the attack (and with good reason, since Edelgard is almost certainly less skilled than Byleth at this point in the game, and if he can't stop the attack with a sword, she's in big trouble with that knife).

[Zapp Branniglenn]

10 minutes ago, Onestep said:

The only point I agree with you on is the silence, which is, as I said, probably a limitation of IS not wanting Byleth to speak in cutscenes (for some reason). Taking this scene with the fact we have, taking this stylistic choice in to account, we have a scene that shows Byleth making a decision to protect their VIP, even at the risk of their own life.

And that's important, because this is the scene where Byleth get's an Axe to the back, and only Sothis's ability to rewind time stops the game from ending there. I think you're forgetting that. Byleth literally blocks the attack on Edelgard with his own life the first time round, and only a rewind let's them get a clean parry. Byleth overestimates their skills and pays for it the first time round, but still makes the same decision to move to block the attack the second time round, because they STILL don't trust Edelgard to be able to block the attack (and with good reason, since Edelgard is almost certainly less skilled than Byleth at this point in the game, and if he can't stop the attack with a sword, she's in big trouble with that knife).

I wouldn't argue making a mistake twice "but doing it better" absolves making the mistake in the first place. But I should probably concede at least this since we don't know how the time travel works specifically in-universe and what Byleth did differently the first time. Though I am especially curious why the axe is in Byleth's back instead of his front. For all we know, Byleth getting axed could be a different bandit or under different circumstances before he rewinded time the first time. And if this cutscene I'm critiquing is Byleth's second chance as we think it is, then that means he has had even more time to reconsider his actions to best protect Edelgard. Like how to make the word "Hey!" with his mouth.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Glennstavos

[Fire Emblem Fan]

The only thing I don't like about this Anna is the shading of her hair. It's too pink, not enough red. Otherwise, I like it!

[Onestep]

1 minute ago, Glennstavos said:

I wouldn't argue making a mistake twice "but doing it better" absolves making the mistake in the first place. But I should probably concede at least this since we don't know how the time travel works specifically in-universe and what Byleth did differently the first time. Though I am especially curious why the axe is in Byleth's back instead of his front. For all we know, Byleth getting axed could be a different bandit or under different circumstances before he rewinded time the first time. And if this cutscene I'm critiquing is Byleth's second chance as we think it is, then that means he has had even more time to reconsider his actions. Like how to make the word "Hey!" with his mouth.

At this point, you're just attacking a stylistic choice. I'm not going to continue repeating myself if you're just going to ignore me. Byleth, so far, seems to be a silent protagonist. This doesn't mean he DOESN'T speak in cutscenes, merely that the player doesn't get to hear him. Much like the P5 protag is shown to be quite the talker, but we never hear a line. In much the same line, we know Byleth does talk, but we haven't heard it yet. For all we know, Edelgard suddenly turning round might be a reaction to Byleth suddenly calling out to her.

Also, that first line, to be blunt, is puerile. Something that achieves your goal is not a mistake. If Byleth had flawlessly blocked the attack and sent the bandit flying the first time round, his choice would not have been a mistake. It would have been an absolutely perfect decision. But he didn't, so it WAS a mistake. If he repeats more or less the same action, but this time does flawlessly block the attack and sends the bandit flying etc etc, then he has, again, made a perfect decision. Any action can only be measured by results, and the second time round, the results were spot on.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

14 minutes ago, Onestep said:

At this point, you're just attacking a stylistic choice. I'm not going to continue repeating myself if you're just going to ignore me.

Style-over-substance was my word choice, yes. But where have I ignored you? 

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Byleth, so far, seems to be a silent protagonist. This doesn't mean he DOESN'T speak in cutscenes, merely that the player doesn't get to hear him. Much like the P5 protag is shown to be quite the talker, but we never hear a line. In much the same line, we know Byleth does talk, but we haven't heard it yet. For all we know, Edelgard suddenly turning round might be a reaction to Byleth suddenly calling out to her.

You must be mistaken. We hear Joker speak in cutscenes and in battle, but Joker confirmed to be a better representation of a silent protagonist than what we've seen with Byleth is an unfair comparison that serves to prove nothing. If in the actual game Byleth DOES call out to her as you suggest. Then that's it. Problem solved. Disregard everything I've said. But if I'm going to critique something in development, I'm going to use the facts as they are, not as I'd like them to be. No "What ifs" or we'd be here all day.

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Also, that first line, to be blunt, is puerile. Something that achieves your goal is not a mistake. If Byleth had flawlessly blocked the attack and sent the bandit flying the first time round, his choice would not have been a mistake. It would have been an absolutely perfect decision. But he didn't, so it WAS a mistake. If he repeats more or less the same action, but this time does flawlessly block the attack and sends the bandit flying etc etc, then he has, again, made a perfect decision. Any action can only be measured by results, and the second time round, the results were spot on.

I have to wonder how many little league players got lectured on sportsmanship. Yes they scored more goals then the opposing team because they played very well, but not ever passing the ball is a mistake because teamwork is important and everybody is trying to have fun. You suggested Byleth did the same thing twice to protect Edelgard, but this time it worked. We don't know if that's true based on footage we've seen, but it's a probable theory. I'm saying it was the same mistake regardless of the result. Somebody not changing their tactic even when they have access to time travel would seem arrogant, wouldn't you think?

Edited April 28, 2019 by Glennstavos

[NSSKG151]

59 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

Ehh. I'm iffy on her design. I kinda like the Fates Version of Anna better, probably because of the eyes are smaller in Fates, and I really don't like how big they are in proportion to her eye sockets. My question is Karen Strassman gonna reprise her role? Is she playable as well?

I also liked the Fates design. Warrior's design was good too.

Don't see why Karen Strassman wouldn't reprise her role for Anna since she voiced four different Anna's now.

We don't know if she is a playable unit yet but I think it is very likely since she has been playable in every FE game since Awakening.

59 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

The only thing I don't like about this Anna is the shading of her hair. It's too pink, not enough red. Otherwise, I like it!

I think her hair color for this game is supposed to reference the lighter shade of red hair she had from the older games (Archanea/Jugdral games ).

[Onestep]

42 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Style-over-substance was my word choice, yes. But where have I ignored you? 

You must be mistaken. We hear Joker speak in cutscenes and in battle, but Joker confirmed to be a better representation of a silent protagonist than what we've seen with Byleth is an unfair comparison that serves to prove nothing. If in the actual game Byleth DOES call out to her as you suggest. Then that's it. Problem solved. Disregard everything I've said. But if I'm going to critique something in development, I'm going to use the facts as they are, not as I'd like them to be. No "What ifs" or we'd be here all day.

I have to wonder how many little league players got lectured on sportsmanship. Yes they scored more goals then the opposing team because they played very well, but not ever passing the ball is a mistake because teamwork is important and everybody is trying to have fun. You suggested Byleth did the same thing twice to protect Edelgard, but this time it worked. We don't know if that's true based on footage we've seen, but it's a probable theory. I'm saying it was the same mistake regardless of the result. Somebody not changing their tactic even when they have access to time travel would seem arrogant, wouldn't you think?

If your complaint is purely with silent protag, then I won't argue. I'm ambivalent on the matter.

Joker talks a lot in battle. I suspect Byleth will too. He says nothing in cutscenes, even when he's doing crazy stuff like sidetackling Makoto out of an attack. For now, leave this complain aside until we see how Byleth's characterisation pulls together as a whole. If he's routinely shown to say things in combat even if he doesn't vocalise those things in cutscenes t then we just have to accept that's how the devs wanted to portray him and can assume he says a lot more than he does. If that's not the case, then we can all discuss it then.

And that's not a great comparison. Teams are meant to work together, yes. But Byleth and Edelgard, at the early point this cutscene occurs, are not a team, or equals. They are two strangers, one a talented mercenary, one a highborn noble who's heir to half the continent. In universe, Byleth would be commended for literally throwing himself between them. And I repeat, an action like this can only truly be judged on the result. If you had the best of intentions, but messed up, then the action was wrong. If you had the best of intentions and succeeded, (as in take two, Sothis electric boogaloo), then surely it was a rousing success?

[Sentinel07]

On the topic of Twitter, I don't know if anyone else posted it, but the NoA Twitter did a little something too.

Nothing too much. Just a little profile on Sothis but I figured I'd mention it.

 

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

17 minutes ago, Onestep said:

If your complaint is purely with silent protag, then I won't argue. I'm ambivalent on the matter.

Where have I ignored you? I can't just leave that accusation hanging.

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Joker talks a lot in battle. I suspect Byleth will too. He says nothing in cutscenes, even when he's doing crazy stuff like sidetackling Makoto out of an attack. For now, leave this complain aside until we see how Byleth's characterisation pulls together as a whole. If he's routinely shown to say things in combat even if he doesn't vocalise those things in cutscenes t then we just have to accept that's how the devs wanted to portray him and can assume he says a lot more than he does. If that's not the case, then we can all discuss it then.

I really don't see why Joker's characterization has an impact on Byleth's. I already mentioned it being an unfair comparison for you to bring up. So yes, let's drop it. And no I won't accept a character that is mute only during cutscenes. It's bizarre, doesn't add to his character, and creates plotholes like the one we're talking about. If the game releases and this is still an issue, I'm not going to just drop it because somebody on the internet claims its "author's intent". 

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And I repeat, an action like this can only truly be judged on the result. If you had the best of intentions, but messed up, then the action was wrong. If you had the best of intentions and succeeded, (as in take two, Sothis electric boogaloo), then surely it was a rousing success?

I can't imagine anybody agreeing with this logic under every circumstance. If a doctor misdiagnoses a patient, and their prescription causes further illness, that's a mistake. If a doctor misdiagnoses a patient, but their prescription causes relief, the problem may be solved, but a mistake is still made, the doctor could get in trouble if it's found out, and if he's not found out, this creates confusion in medical history. If a cop knows somebody has contraband in their car, and searches it without a warrant, that's illegal. There are plenty of examples in our day to day life where results aren't everything because we have standards for how people ought to behave when they have extraordinary authority to help people. You may disregard these examples as not the same thing (duh, I'm proving a point like I was with the little league thing), but previous Fire Emblem games talk about this very thing. The Chrom and Robin support is about not throwing your life on the line recklessly for others, and they argue about it. What if next time Chrom doesn't make it out okay? Same with MarcusxEliwood and several others. It will probably appear again in this game somewhere. It's a valid debate.

[Onestep]

12 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Where have I ignored you? I can't just leave that accusation hanging.

I really don't see why Joker's characterization has an impact on Byleth's. I already mentioned it being an unfair comparison for you to bring up. So yes, let's drop it. And no I won't accept a character that is mute only during cutscenes. It's bizarre, doesn't add to his character, and creates plotholes like the one we're talking about. If the game releases and this is still an issue, I'm not going to just drop it because somebody on the internet claims its "author's intent". 

I can't imagine anybody agreeing with this logic under every circumstance. If a doctor misdiagnoses a patient, and their prescription causes further illness, that's a mistake. If a doctor misdiagnoses a patient, but their prescription causes relief, the problem may be solved, but a mistake is still made, the doctor could get in trouble if it's found out, and if he's not found out, this creates confusion in medical history. If a cop knows somebody has contraband in their car, and searches it without a warrant, that's illegal. There are plenty of examples in our day to day life where results aren't everything because we have standards for how people ought to behave when they have extraordinary authority to help people. You may disregard these examples as not the same thing (duh, I'm proving a point like I was with the little league thing), but previous Fire Emblem games talk about this very thing. The Chrom and Robin support is about not throwing your life on the line recklessly for others, and they argue about it. What if next time Chrom doesn't make it out okay? Same with MarcusxEliwood and several others. It will probably appear again in this game somewhere. It's a valid debate.

My accusation is that I've repeatedly mentioned that I'm aware Byleth is a silent protagonist, and you keep bringing it up as your main point at to why the scene is poorly done. I can't argue over this as our only disagreement is over accepting the implications of a silent protagonist (that they often say things the playe cannot directly hear and must interpret from NPC responses.) I've acknowledged this from my first post.

Why is it an unfair comparison? Would you prefer Link? Or another silent protag? Because they all have the same issue. They have words and reactions that are not outright said, but must be interpreted from NPC responses.

And yes, you're right. Context is important. And this particular context is a military operation. And as military history is pretty clear on, what works, works. A military commander who makes a brash call that works will be called daring. One who makes a brash call that fails will be called foolish. In the end, post timerewind, Byleth makes a call that results in he and Edelgard both living. So he's daring and brilliant. You can say 'Oh, but he only won because he can literally rewind time' and that's true. But that's no more valid an argument than saying 'Superman won because he can benchpress the planet' or 'Robin won because he's a strategic genius'. If a character has a talent, and they use that talent to achieve results, then the results are still valid. Now if you want to complain that the ability to rewind time is narratively broken and completely overpowered, then believe me, I agree with you.

[Flere210]

5 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Was listening to Ghast's news roundup video and I have to agree this cutscene of saving Edelgard is kind of dumb. She's not unarmed, she clearly sees the mook coming at her. I dunno if this is before or after Edelgard and Byleth meet, but I feel like it just makes her look incapable. The decision to butt in would make more sense if perhaps she were being assailed in two directions, thus necessitating somebody to watch her back. Otherwise you'd have to be a serious fool to run directly inbetween two peoples' swords without a word of warning.

So if the president know Kung Fu the bodyguards should do nothing if someone try to stab him, because otherwise they take away his agency of defending hinself? I'd fire those bodyguards on the spot.

Someone is trying to kill the person you have been paid to protect(mercenary or teacher, it change nothing, both have a responsibility to protect their employer/students), wich also happen to be the heir of the biggest country in the continent, NOT jumping in would be a terrible idea. Maybe the specific dynamic is wrong, but hey, the specific dynamic got Byleth killed.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Flere210

[Zapp Branniglenn]

6 minutes ago, Onestep said:

My accusation is that I've repeatedly mentioned that I'm aware Byleth is a silent protagonist, and you keep bringing it up as your main point at to why the scene is poorly done. I can't argue over this as our only disagreement is over accepting the implications of a silent protagonist (that they often say things the playe cannot directly hear and must interpret from NPC responses.) I've acknowledged this from my first post.

oh that's what you were referring to by stylistic choice? I thought you were referring to what I said earlier with style over substance scene writing. Well I defer to what I said earlier about Byleth's "silent when the cameras are on" behavior as a plothole rather than "author's intent which can't be judged".

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Why is it an unfair comparison? Would you prefer Link? Or another silent protag? Because they all have the same issue. They have words and reactions that are not outright said, but must be interpreted from NPC responses.

I already said why. Joker's from a fully fledged game that we can play right now, so comparison is unfavorable. Byleth is a character we've seen in just a few choice scenes. Always edited footage, neither of us have Three Houses in our hands to judge his character in full context. Also omg we both JUST dropped Joker from the conversation.

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And yes, you're right. Context is important. And this particular context is a military operation. And as military history is pretty clear on, what works, works. A military commander who makes a brash call that works will be called daring. One who makes a brash call that fails will be called foolish. In the end, post timerewind,

People question military operations every day, and I'm sure you've engaged in such debates if you live in the States. In a public school american history class you may have encountered debates over the use of the atomic bomb, or the bombing raids in Germany. The primary questions being (a)did they expedite the end of the war and (b) if they did expedite the war by a feasible amount, was the loss of civilian life low enough to justify how many lifes would be saved in further military conflict? Is it unfair to judge the decisions people make in war with our benefits of hindsight? Yes, but it doesn't stop us since it informs later military decisions. I don't doubt Byleth would be commended for saving the client, particularly by people who weren't witnesses. But if they were witnesses and interested in making Byleth a better soldier and commander, they'd critique what they could. 

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Byleth makes a call that results in he and Edelgard both living. So he's daring and brilliant. You can say 'Oh, but he only won because he can literally rewind time' and that's true. But that's no more valid an argument than saying 'Superman won because he can benchpress the planet' or 'Robin won because he's a strategic genius'. If a character has a talent, and they use that talent to achieve results, then the results are still valid. Now if you want to complain that the ability to rewind time is narratively broken and completely overpowered, then believe me, I agree with you.

No, I'd say It's not narratively broken until the writers break it. It's a super power. There's a multi billion dollar movie franchise that asked the question whether superheroes should answer to a civic authority. And it's an interesting question. It makes me wonder if other characters will question Byleth's powers. But there's a possibility no other character will ever learn of his abilities which would be a bummer. Story writing is bad when it's bad. Not because it relies on a trope or starts using supernatural elements. When people say "I hate time travel, it always ruins stories", I hope they don't mean it because it's a harsh, snap judgement.

21 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

So if the president know Kung Fu the bodyguards should do nothing if someone try to stab him, because otherwise they take away his agency of defending hinself? I'd fire those bodyguards on the spot.

Well, my examples were derived from real life and not some fantasy land in which people are not allowed to use kung fu in self defense so I don't know what you're trying to prove in this not-comparison.

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Someone is trying to kill the person you have been paid to protect(mercenary or teacher, it change nothing, both have a responsibility to protect their employer/students), wich also happen to be the heir of the biggest country in the continent, NOT jumping in would be a terrible idea. 

Look I know you're jumping into the middle of somebody else's long, drawn out conversation and you don't want to read it all. But if you had read at least the first few of my posts, you would have seen one of the many times I stated I have no problems with Byleth's decision to act, just with how he chose to act. Please don't do this again.

[Flere210]

The point of my comparisson is that even if an important person is perfectly capable of protecing themself, if your job is to protect them then you should do that. If i was the Adrestian emperor and Edlgard got killed while she was under Byleth's responsibility, i'd execute them in a way much more paintful than an axe in the back.

 

And my impression was that you are againist both the execution and the scene itself, sorry if i was mistaken.

[Onestep]

1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

oh that's what you were referring to by stylistic choice? I thought you were referring to what I said earlier with style over substance scene writing. Well I defer to what I said earlier about Byleth's "silent when the cameras are on" behavior as a plothole rather than "author's intent which can't be judged".

I already said why. Joker's from a fully fledged game that we can play right now, so comparison is unfavorable. Byleth is a character we've seen in just a few choice scenes. Always edited footage, neither of us have Three Houses in our hands to judge his character in full context. Also omg we both JUST dropped Joker from the conversation.

People question military operations every day, and I'm sure you've engaged in such debates if you live in the States. In a public school american history class you may have encountered debates over the use of the atomic bomb, or the bombing raids in Germany. The primary questions being (a)did they expedite the end of the war and (b) if they did expedite the war by a feasible amount, was the loss of civilian life low enough to justify how many lifes would be saved in further military conflict? Is it unfair to judge the decisions people make in war with our benefits of hindsight? Yes, but it doesn't stop us since it informs later military decisions. I don't doubt Byleth would be commended for saving the client, particularly by people who weren't witnesses. But if they were witnesses and interested in making Byleth a better soldier and commander, they'd critique what they could. 

No, I'd say It's not narratively broken until the writers break it. It's a super power. There's a multi billion dollar movie franchise that asked the question whether superheroes should answer to a civic authority. And it's an interesting question. It makes me wonder if other characters will question Byleth's powers. But there's a possibility no other character will ever learn of his abilities which would be a bummer. Story writing is bad when it's bad. Not because it relies on a trope or starts using supernatural elements. When people say "I hate time travel, it always ruins stories", I hope they don't mean it because it's a harsh, snap judgement.

Well, my examples were derived from real life and not some fantasy land in which people are not allowed to use kung fu in self defense so I don't know what you're trying to prove in this not-comparison.

Look I know you're jumping into the middle of somebody else's long, drawn out conversation and you don't want to read it all. But if you had read at least the first few of my posts, you would have seen one of the many times I stated I have no problems with Byleth's decision to act, just with how he chose to act. Please don't do this again.

I mean, if that's what you're running with, isn't it highly unfair to judge Byleth when we don't know the full situation? You're accusing him of a number of flaws, when we don't know how the game represents him or his decision making.

And while people do question operations, we do have to accept the results. Any given situation is determined by the skills of the people involved. It's insanity to send raw recruits to undermine a fortress, but a sound strategic move to send an experienced group of sappers to do the same. Byleth is skilled mercenary. He messed up the first time (we think, see my first point, we don't actually know the full story) and then flawlessly saved both himself and Edelgard the second, which is the result everyone saw. You're mistaking a cautious plan of action with a successful one, which isn't always the case. Honestly, at this point, rather than comparing him to actual real life military strategy, we'd be better off comparing him to stuff like All You Need Is Kill or Edge of Tomorrow, it's Americanised counterpart.

I guess in the end, I have two main points. First, we need to know the circumstances. We need more context, both for Byleth and the situation he's in. With those, we can judge whether Byleth's initial decision making might have been flawed. Second, even without that, we need to accept the result. Byleth used time magic to save Edelgard and himself. You might say he could have done it better, or that without time magic, it would have gone poorly (it did) but in terms of actual results, he clearly did as well as could possibly be hoped.

[Rose482]

10 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Right. Are we in disagreement on something or...?

10 hours ago, Onestep said:

I think we are on the part where you said Edelgard could had attacked Byleth by accident, that was really my whole point in showing those screenshots, really I just wanted to show that she knew he was coming towards her and that he didn't show up out of nowhere. 

Edited April 28, 2019 by Rose482

[Zapp Branniglenn]

10 hours ago, Onestep said:

I mean, if that's what you're running with, isn't it highly unfair to judge Byleth when we don't know the full situation? You're accusing him of a number of flaws, when we don't know how the game represents him or his decision making.

I have to judge the facts as they are if I'm going to critique this scene and defend my statements against this flood of comments. To do otherwise would be to...not critique the scene in the first place. Concede everything in a long list of What Ifs. If that's what you're telling me to do, isn't that a little unfair? Critique is impossible against such standards. If your opinion is that people like me ought to hold everything I have to say until release, then that's your opinion, and if so I recommend you only visit threads dedicated to positive, un-critical statements such as this one from three days ago, or this one from two hours ago. Probably many more if you look down the list of threads.

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Honestly, at this point, rather than comparing him to actual real life military strategy, we'd be better off comparing him to stuff like All You Need Is Kill or Edge of Tomorrow, it's Americanised counterpart.

Oof, now you're filling my head with unrealistic expectations. See I liked that movie because Tom Cruise tells his CO about the power he has so that they can strategize what to do with it. Part of that strategizing does indeed involve making Tome Cruise a competent enough soldier to execute the plan, because his plans and abilities were awful. Once again these examples only agree with my position Byleth could stand to be a more capable person if he intends on doing this Hero thing with infinite chances. Imagine if we had THAT sort of Time Travel storytelling in Three Houses. Personally I'm not anticipating Byleth will ever tell another soul what he can do because the writers are afraid jerks like me will continue to point out instances in which Byleth keeps the ability a secret which could have potentially prevented a lot of bloodshed and military failures. We'll see how they handle it when the game releases. At least until they tell us some sort of drawback to Byleth letting people know. Maybe they'll do the Fates thing and the act of telling somebody about Sothis makes Byleth...disappear. Really my bar is not set as high as a movie like Live. Die. Repeat. or whatever they call it these days. And I recommend you also curb your expectations.

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I guess in the end, I have two main points. First, we need to know the circumstances. We need more context, both for Byleth and the situation he's in. With those, we can judge whether Byleth's initial decision making might have been flawed. Second, even without that, we need to accept the result. Byleth used time magic to save Edelgard and himself. You might say he could have done it better, or that without time magic, it would have gone poorly (it did) but in terms of actual results, he clearly did as well as could possibly be hoped.

I stand by my original post when I called the scene "kind of dumb". Perhaps it is me who should be the one asking for some amnesty in how I judge the scene in leau of not having all the facts. I'm working with the same disadvantage. I certainly provided my own fixes for the scene. The one fix where he calls out to her would suffice and it's an easy fix by adding just a single sound clip in the three months we still have before release. Furthermore, if you compare this twitter post to how Byleth saves the day in the February Direct, we're seeing two sets of footage whose order we can only guess at. Maybe there's a crucial second of footage in the finished product that solves everything and it's their editing choices that are to blame. Doesn't make the scene any better at this point in time though. 

If we all agree we want the scene to be better than that's cool, it's almost an agreement with me. But with how this conversation has progressed to this point...I look at my list of notifications numbering 16 responses from 5 different users. Plus one or two that didn't quote me. I wouldn't claim anybody is outraged at what I've said, but I would claim my initial comments about the scene must be irreconcilable based on the response thus far. If I'm allowed to call this scene "kind of dumb" then we can agree to disagree. If I'm NOT allowed to call it that, even after writing all of this to defend my opinion, then I dunno what I could or should say. A question that seems more pertinent now that a day has passed.

My opinion is unfair at this point in time, is your position. Sorry if it caused you or anybody else stress. If I hadn't received any responses you can be sure I wouldn't have said anything else about the scene in this or any other thread at least until somebody brings it up again as being good or bad. I can handle a dumb scene. Don't worry about how I'm feeling, I was sitting here playing Fire Emblem on my Switch as the notifications rolled in. The most upset I got was when I had to reset for a mistake when I allowed Jake to kill Minerva before I made the move to lure and recruit him. Sombody had to tank a hit to get him away from the boss's range, it definitely shouldn't have been Minerva but I moved her too close on accident...

 

7 hours ago, Rose482 said:

I think we are on the part where you said Edelgard could had attacked Byleth by accident, that was really my whole point in showing those screenshots, really I just wanted to show that she knew he was coming towards her and that he didn't show up out of nowhere. 

It was noted early on. Edelgard noticed Byleth, just averting the tragedy of stabbing Byleth as he threw himself in front of her dagger. My issue is that he did it without warning her, which would be a novice mistake. Don't throw yourself between two people fighting without a ward of warning, 

[thecrimsonflash]

Honestly, I think it would be hilarious if byleth was an actual character and he is actually the definition of incompetent but he uses his powers to play up that he is an absolute god on the battlefield who is never even touched.

[Rose482]

23 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

It was noted early on. Edelgard noticed Byleth, just averting the tragedy of stabbing Byleth as he threw himself in front of her dagger. My issue is that he did it without warning her, which would be a novice mistake. Don't throw yourself between two people fighting without a ward of warning, 

Yeah I get what you mean, had he like....come from behind her, he should have needed to call out for her to make her know he's coming, but from what we saw in the video he was more to her left I believe so maybe he didn't think it was needed? IDK, I think we really both are reading too much into this lol. 

[Onestep]

5 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

I have to judge the facts as they are if I'm going to critique this scene and defend my statements against this flood of comments. To do otherwise would be to...not critique the scene in the first place. Concede everything in a long list of What Ifs. If that's what you're telling me to do, isn't that a little unfair? Critique is impossible against such standards. If your opinion is that people like me ought to hold everything I have to say until release, then that's your opinion, and if so I recommend you only visit threads dedicated to positive, un-critical statements such as this one from three days ago, or this one from two hours ago. Probably many more if you look down the list of threads.

Oof, now you're filling my head with unrealistic expectations. See I liked that movie because Tom Cruise tells his CO about the power he has so that they can strategize what to do with it. Part of that strategizing does indeed involve making Tome Cruise a competent enough soldier to execute the plan, because his plans and abilities were awful. Once again these examples only agree with my position Byleth could stand to be a more capable person if he intends on doing this Hero thing with infinite chances. Imagine if we had THAT sort of Time Travel storytelling in Three Houses. Personally I'm not anticipating Byleth will ever tell another soul what he can do because the writers are afraid jerks like me will continue to point out instances in which Byleth keeps the ability a secret which could have potentially prevented a lot of bloodshed and military failures. We'll see how they handle it when the game releases. At least until they tell us some sort of drawback to Byleth letting people know. Maybe they'll do the Fates thing and the act of telling somebody about Sothis makes Byleth...disappear. Really my bar is not set as high as a movie like Live. Die. Repeat. or whatever they call it these days. And I recommend you also curb your expectations.

I stand by my original post when I called the scene "kind of dumb". Perhaps it is me who should be the one asking for some amnesty in how I judge the scene in leau of not having all the facts. I'm working with the same disadvantage. I certainly provided my own fixes for the scene. The one fix where he calls out to her would suffice and it's an easy fix by adding just a single sound clip in the three months we still have before release. Furthermore, if you compare this twitter post to how Byleth saves the day in the February Direct, we're seeing two sets of footage whose order we can only guess at. Maybe there's a crucial second of footage in the finished product that solves everything and it's their editing choices that are to blame. Doesn't make the scene any better at this point in time though. 

If we all agree we want the scene to be better than that's cool, it's almost an agreement with me. But with how this conversation has progressed to this point...I look at my list of notifications numbering 16 responses from 5 different users. Plus one or two that didn't quote me. I wouldn't claim anybody is outraged at what I've said, but I would claim my initial comments about the scene must be irreconcilable based on the response thus far. If I'm allowed to call this scene "kind of dumb" then we can agree to disagree. If I'm NOT allowed to call it that, even after writing all of this to defend my opinion, then I dunno what I could or should say. A question that seems more pertinent now that a day has passed.

My opinion is unfair at this point in time, is your position. Sorry if it caused you or anybody else stress. If I hadn't received any responses you can be sure I wouldn't have said anything else about the scene in this or any other thread at least until somebody brings it up again as being good or bad. I can handle a dumb scene. Don't worry about how I'm feeling, I was sitting here playing Fire Emblem on my Switch as the notifications rolled in. The most upset I got was when I had to reset for a mistake when I allowed Jake to kill Minerva before I made the move to lure and recruit him. Sombody had to tank a hit to get him away from the boss's range, it definitely shouldn't have been Minerva but I moved her too close on accident...

 

It was noted early on. Edelgard noticed Byleth, just averting the tragedy of stabbing Byleth as he threw himself in front of her dagger. My issue is that he did it without warning her, which would be a novice mistake. Don't throw yourself between two people fighting without a ward of warning, 

I'm perfectly happy, don't worry. I thought we were having a fairly respectful discussion, and I'll be the first to apologise if I upset you, or the sheer volume of replies you were getting created an impression of genuine anger or vitriol on my part.  How about we just agree to disagree on certain aspects of the scene as we know them, and wait for the full release before rendering any real judgement?

Edited April 28, 2019 by Onestep

[colossus86]

FE Twitter just put out another short clip

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

I suppose this thread is the closest thing to where this should go. The FE3H Twitter released a new short video:

My take on what she's saying:

"I suppose I should introduce myself properly. My name is Edelgard von Hræsvelgr. I am the imperial princess of the Adrestian Empire, and heir apparent to the throne. I wonder if you would end up taking over our class..."

[Cysx]

There is also another tweet right beneath, that (likely)introduces Edelgard.

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Cysx