The dragon ilness

[vanguard333]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Well you said Loptyr fled Archanea when instead Galle found him on that continent.

Oh; okay. Thanks. 

[Tetragrammaton]

To be honest, I don't think the dragon madness is really madness.

1. What is the point of having great power if you don't use it? They have the power, they used it, and their environment got worse because of it.

2. What is the point of being predator if you don't eat meat? Some dragons have human on their menu list. There is no reason for them to remove human from the list, it's something like "dog is friend not food" argument.

3. After the dragon golden age, humans appear everywhere, getting more crowded over time, this annoyed the dragons so they try to get rid of human.

4. When you are so old, if you don't get alzheimer, you can be very grumpy and everyone hates you, even your relatives.

etc. etc.

Other dragons did not agree with them and their disagreement turned into conflict and war.

The really madness is that you want to prove you are right, and you kill your own kind to prove your point.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Tetragrammaton said:

To be honest, I don't think the dragon madness is really madness.

1. What is the point of having great power if you don't use it? They have the power, they used it, and their environment got worse because of it.

2. What is the point of being predator if you don't eat meat? Some dragons have human on their menu list. There is no reason for them to remove human from the list, it's something like "dog is friend not food" argument.

3. After the dragon golden age, humans appear everywhere, getting more crowded over time, this annoyed the dragons so they try to get rid of human.

4. When you are so old, if you don't get alzheimer, you can be very grumpy and everyone hates you, even your relatives.

etc. etc.

Other dragons did not agree with them and their disagreement turned into conflict and war.

The really madness is that you want to prove you are right, and you kill your own kind to prove your point.

Eh, no. It's made quite clear their minds were degenerating.

1. There's no indication the enviroment got worse because the dragons used their powers.

2. What? Where are bringing this up about dragons eating humans? The ones who degenerated, sure, since they're no different from wild animals at that point. The still sapient ones? No way is it ever stated they eat humans.

3. Humans were already around during the Golden Age. Thabes thrived during that time. Dragons were never annoyed by them. Except Duma at the humans of Thabes; but never to humans in general. The whole "attack humans" was actually done by the degenerated Earth Dragons. That's the whole reason the Divine vs Earth dragon war began, because the degenerated earth dragons started attacking the humans.

4. Eh, that's a big assumption to make.

That's quite the wrong asumption to make. There was no metaphorical madness. Their minds were truly damaged to the point of madness.

 

[Emperor Hardin]

On 5/1/2019 at 1:57 PM, Hare'da-irijon said:

It's common in FE games for deacons to go insane. However have you ever wandered why it happens?

What we know about the 'dragon condition':

• Seems like every dragon eventually goes mad;
• It's not exclusive to divine dragons, as Anakos goes insane as well (and he was an astral dragon);
• It's not exclusive to male dragons either. In FE3, Tiki mentiones that she sometimes has an urge to go on a rampage, what can be seen as first simptoms of the condition;
• Despite his age, Morva from FE8 seems not to be suffering from the illness;
• Duma did go mad, but Mila and (especially) Naga seem to be completely healthy and sane;
• There are young dragon around, but they never mention the illness nor seem to suffer from it (exception being probably Tiki, as mentioned before);
• There is no record of dragons going mad in the previous generations of dragons (for example it is said that they coexisted peacefully with humans on Elibe);
• Some dragons are aware that they will eventually go mad (Mila, Duma);
• Dragons can be stopped form going mad by performing certain acts (Azura's song easing Anankos)

What is happening here? What is the source of dragon madness and why is it so selective?

Does somebody have any ideas?

In Archanea, Degeneration has nothing to do with age and more to do with a mysterious change in the world that happened one day. All Dragons young and old degenerated unless they sealed their power and became Manaketes.

Tiki is mentioned to be in danger of degeneration due to her great power.

It can be inferred the world could no longer handle dragons at full power.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Emperor Hardin

[vanguard333]

7 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

In Archanea, Degeneration has nothing to do with age and more to do with a mysterious change in the world that happened one day. All Dragons young and old degenerated unless they sealed their power and became Manaketes.

Tiki is mentioned to be in danger of degeneration due to her great power.

It can be inferred the world could no longer handle dragons at full power.

Pretty much this, though I disagree with that last bit. There's no indication that the world got worse from dragons using their powers. Valentia hits the fan because the environment has grown dependent on Mila and Duma and it suddenly finds itself on withdrawal from dragon magic (plus all the twisted magic that the Duma Faithful's doing). 

[Emperor Hardin]

9 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Pretty much this, though I disagree with that last bit. There's no indication that the world got worse from dragons using their powers. Valentia hits the fan because the environment has grown dependent on Mila and Duma and it suddenly finds itself on withdrawal from dragon magic (plus all the twisted magic that the Duma Faithful's doing). 

Thats new lore/possible retcons in SOV, similar to Duma's rotting body.

In the original lore, it was even stated that degeneration was believed by Dragons to be the wrath of the gods against them.

[vanguard333]

2 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Thats new lore/possible retcons in SOV, similar to Duma's rotting body.

In the original lore, it was even stated that degeneration was believed by Dragons to be the wrath of the gods against them.

What something's believed to be and what something is are two different things. 

[Acacia Sgt]

At the end of the day, I still subscribe that it was simply something that just happened. It's like a meteor strike. Wait, wrong example. It's like a geomagnetic reversal. Or maybe their planet's magnetic field did shift and that disrupted the dragons' power. For all we know.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[Emperor Hardin]

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

At the end of the day, I still subscribe that it was simply something that just happened. It's like a meteor strike. Wait, wrong example. It's like a geomagnetic reversal. Or maybe their planet's magnetic field did shift and that disrupted the dragons' power. For all we know.

While Binding Blade/Elibe never directly mentions dragons degenerating, it is explicitly mentioned that the ending winter, caused by humans use of their Divine Weapons, forced dragons to become Manaketes to survive.

[Tetragrammaton]

On 5/3/2019 at 7:49 AM, Acacia Sgt said:

Eh, no. It's made quite clear their minds were degenerating.

1. There's no indication the enviroment got worse because the dragons used their powers.

2. What? Where are bringing this up about dragons eating humans? The ones who degenerated, sure, since they're no different from wild animals at that point. The still sapient ones? No way is it ever stated they eat humans.

3. Humans were already around during the Golden Age. Thabes thrived during that time. Dragons were never annoyed by them. Except Duma at the humans of Thabes; but never to humans in general. The whole "attack humans" was actually done by the degenerated Earth Dragons. That's the whole reason the Divine vs Earth dragon war began, because the degenerated earth dragons started attacking the humans.

4. Eh, that's a big assumption to make.

That's quite the wrong asumption to make. There was no metaphorical madness. Their minds were truly damaged to the point of madness.

 

If you lost the war you might be labeled degenerated by the winner other than just criminal, evil, demon, axis, or more simpler term, loser.

[Acacia Sgt]

45 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

While Binding Blade/Elibe never directly mentions dragons degenerating, it is explicitly mentioned that the ending winter, caused by humans use of their Divine Weapons, forced dragons to become Manaketes to survive.

Well, those are two different situations. The effects on dragonkind are even different. Elibian dragons wouldn't degenerate. They'd outright die.

13 minutes ago, Tetragrammaton said:

If you lost the war you might be labeled degenerated by the winner other than just criminal, evil, demon, axis, or more simpler term, loser.

Except the term is used for a reason. They had become mindless beasts. It's not a metaphor or a label. They outright became that. Keep in mind there's plenty of Fire, Ice, Mage, and Flying dragons that had nothing to do with the war; but have also become mindless beasts.

[Tetragrammaton]

35 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, those are two different situations. The effects on dragonkind are even different. Elibian dragons wouldn't degenerate. They'd outright die.

Except the term is used for a reason. They had become mindless beasts. It's not a metaphor or a label. They outright became that. Keep in mind there's plenty of Fire, Ice, Mage, and Flying dragons that had nothing to do with the war; but have also become mindless beasts.

By the time our heroes meet the dragons, most of them are extincted, who survive and talk can still talk, who can't talk are not anymore mindless than the generic warriors, generals, knights who never talk in the 90% of their screen time.

And beside that, are you sure our heroes can speak dragon language?

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Except the term is used for a reason. They had become mindless beasts. It's not a metaphor or a label. They outright became that. Keep in mind there's plenty of Fire, Ice, Mage, and Flying dragons that had nothing to do with the war; but have also become mindless beasts.

To support you here:

Xane:
This is Flame Barrel... The fire dragons' graveyard. It's where the fire dragons who've degenerated into savage beasts come to wait for their death. 

Marth:
Degenerated, you say...? What do you mean by that? 

Xane:
I'm not sure if you're aware, but the dragon tribe is dyin'. Those who don't confine their true, dragon form in a stone eventually lose all reason and become monsters. 

Marth:
So that's why they become Manaketes? Xane, if you know something about the dragon tribe, please tell me. 

Xane:
If you really wanna know... Tens of thousands of years ago, the dragon tribe settled down on this continent, and created a civilization. They possessed intellect and abilities far exceedin' those of humans. But suddenly, outta nowhere, their day of destruction came. At first, they couldn't bear children. Then they began to lose their minds, goin' berserk one after the next. The elders warned that the end of dragons as a species was approachin'. There was no longer any way to prevent it. However, there was one way they could survive: to discard their identities as dragons and live on as humans. The dragons fell into a panic. Those who believed the elders sealed their forms within stones and became humans. But those who couldn't throw away their pride as a dragon; those who adamantly refused to become human... They eventually lost their minds and became naught but beasts... 

Marth:
Those fire dragons before us... 

Xane:
Yeah, they're a livin' example. And it's not just them. There are many others. But they've all gone feral now. There's no way for them to go back... Worse still, they've been manipulated and degraded like cattle by the fire clans who rule over this valley. Well, princey. Whadya say we get out of here? The clansmen around here ain't friendly; if we hang around, we'll end up as bait for their dragon pets. 

This is pretty much the best explanation we get about degeneration, from a dragon themselves, one who says they've little love for humanity in the following chapter.

[MilodicMellodi]

I've always had this theory that the dragons started degenerating because of the quality of magic in the air. Dragons, being highly magical creatures, would release purer magic into the air than humans would be capable of. When the populations of humans and dragons started growing and shrinking respectively, however, less and less of this pure magic would be released back into the air.

It's sort of like putting an industry in the middle of a forest. The amount of carbon dioxide absorbed by the trees, and oxygen released back into the atmosphere, would be greater than some tiny smoke-maker would be able to do, but a massive factory with little-to-no trees would see the landscape barren, the soil unusable, and the air toxic.

As the population of dragons shrink, less pure magic is released back into the air. As there is less pure magic in the air, dragons start to suffer and their birthrates start to drop. This creates an endless cycle that continues to decline until the dragons can see nothing but their extinction awaiting them.