Why do people hate armor knights in this game?

[Emperor Hardin]

1 minute ago, Quickpawmaud said:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/694770/Vestaria_Saga/ Is this it? I have never heard of it sounds interesting though.

Yup, thats it.

Its by the creator of the first five Fire Emblem games.

[Quickpawmaud]

It says 2019 do you know the release date? Or has it just not been announced yet?

[Emperor Hardin]

Just now, Quickpawmaud said:

It says 2019 do you know the release date? Or has it just not been announced yet?

It and its Gaiden game are already out in Japan, they're still working on the english translation. Right now, the translation is done but they're working on getting it all within the game engine itself.

This is the Armor Knight from the first main episode, Prody. He gets the Good Neighbor skill improving Def and resistance of nearby units. Prody is Rank A on Japanese tier lists, the only higher rank, S, is reserved for the top three.

You technically have a choice of two, with Bonacel being the other. He's very hard to kill with traditional pavise and Wrath, tier lists rank him B.

 

[Quickpawmaud]

Well I will keep an eye on it thanks for telling me.

[Emperor Hardin]

3 minutes ago, Quickpawmaud said:

Well I will keep an eye on it thanks for telling me.

No problem.

There's also TearRing Saga and Berwick Saga, which you can look into later as well. Though the Armor Knights, there, while usable, aren't great.

They do say in Episode 1 of Vestaria Saga, Armor Knights lose some relevance in the final bit as aside from Defense their stat caps are average, but stat caps are far from everything in Vestaria, with performance throughout the whole game and skills mattering more. Armor Knight has great stat caps in the Gaiden game as well, where they & their pre promotion can use swords or axes in addition to Spears and Javelins(separate weapon type in VS).

[Quickpawmaud]

I assume it is a much more hardcore game than the newer fire emblems? I have been hesitant to try the older fire emblems as they seem brutally difficult and without any grinding spots to level up. I am fairly bad at video games.

[Emperor Hardin]

1 minute ago, Quickpawmaud said:

I assume it is a much more hardcore game than the newer fire emblems? I have been hesitant to try the older fire emblems as they seem brutally difficult and without any grinding spots to level up. I am fairly bad at video games.

Eh, not exactly.

TearRing Saga is pretty easy for example and includes grinding spots in one route.

Berwick Saga does seem pretty difficult though.

Wanna hear about the Armored units in TearRing and Berwick Saga?

[Quickpawmaud]

Yes but am really scared of eclipse getting mad at me for going off topic too much. 

[Emperor Hardin]

1 minute ago, Quickpawmaud said:

Yes but am really scared of eclipse getting mad at me for going off topic too much. 

Its related to the topic of Armor Knights, but if you want we can take this to PMs or the general forum?

[Quickpawmaud]

Well I am new to the forums not sure how strict the rules are. It is on topic for Armored Knights but offtopic for Valentia. I added Armored Knight tag I think that fixes it.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Quickpawmaud

[Emperor Hardin]

1 minute ago, Quickpawmaud said:

Well I am new to the forums not sure how strict the rules are. It is on topic for Armored Knights but offtopic for Valentia.

I don't think anyone would mind that much here as it is relevant in how the game could've improved the class.

TearRing Saga Armor Knights have 3 movement, where most other units have 4 or 5, which is pretty bad. They use swords like the Armor Sword variant. However the playable Armor Knights do have ways of escaping their low movement.

Norton, who has very high strength growth promotes to Iron Knight, a mounted Armored class similar to FE8 Great Knight(there is an entirely different class known as Great Knight in FE4, FE5, and FE10.

Billford is one of the few units to possess a movement growth. Savescumming Billford to have very high movement is a meme in the community.

There is also a pre promoted General who has uses in Zero growth runs due to his comparatively high base stats. I should mention Generals are swordlocked in TearRing Saga which is kinda annoying, ah well.

Ballisticians count as Armored units in the game as well.

Basically TearRing Saga Knights are in no way high tier, but they are usable.

 

[Quickpawmaud]

Are they better than in Valentia? I think Valentia knights are probably the worst class but there is not much competition and certain things can make them good enough. Although I did not think they were the worst until this discussion. What is the percentage on movement growth anyway how would that even work?

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Quickpawmaud

[Emperor Hardin]

1 minute ago, Quickpawmaud said:

Are they better than in Valentia? I think Valentia knights are probably the worst class but there is not much competition and certain things can make them good enough. Although I did not think they were the worst until this discussion. What is the percentage on movement growth anyway how would that even work?

I'd say Lukas and Valbar are more useful overall given their contributions early on.

5% movement growth, though there's random battles and a saving staff.

Berwick Saga has two Armored units. In Berwick Saga, infantry units have 4 movement, whilst Armored units have 3.

First there's the bizarre joke character, Derrick who has an interesting story. Derrick has very high base defense, but due to his low growths, in particular defense, he is easily outclassed. He is bottom tier. Nevertheless he does contribute a bit early on. Derrick is an Armor Knight that uses axes and large shields.

Marcel the guard knight is the more traditional armored character. He uses Swords, Blades and Large Shields. His skill allows him to enter in combat in place of an adjacent unit. Curiously Marcel is technically not an Armored character despite looking and animating exactly like one, though this effects very little as there's only one occasion where Marcel can ever encounter an enemy with a hammer. Marcel has an invisible skill giving him -1 movement until level 14, also making have 3 movement the same as Armored units. Marcel is low mid tier.

[Quickpawmaud]

The movement overall seems much shorter than fire emblem. Are the maps a lot smaller?

[Emperor Hardin]

4 minutes ago, Quickpawmaud said:

The movement overall seems much shorter than fire emblem. Are the maps a lot smaller?

Most of Berwick Saga's maps seem fairly large, though infantry units in general have lower movement. Berwick Saga allows multiple saves in battle too.

[Yexin]

i really like armor knights in SoV

in fact, i think SoV is one of the very few FE games i actually cared about them while playing it (the other ones are PoR and RD because gatrie)

Edited May 3, 2019 by Yexin

[Emperor Hardin]

 So how would anyone improve Armor Knights in SOV.

One idea is:

*Armor Knights have 5 movement , whilst Barons have 6 movement.

* Barons get +5 attack, making them the attack class in lieu of fighters.

* Barons have a skill that halve damages from Swords, Lances and claws, that shouldn't be too overpowered giving all them magic enemies in the game.

[Armchair General]

Dude, halving damage would make the game easier than it already is. We already have Barons shrugging off arrows.

But then again, these skills should be enemy-exclusive.

[Quickpawmaud]

The first two suggestions would be fine but the problem is dread fighters get that stupid skill to halve all magic damage so in order to make armored guys good you have to nerf dread fighter too. I do not understand why dread fighters get 7 movement, resistance boost, and half all magic damage. Cavaliers just get movement I think and barons get nothing.

[Armchair General]

Like I said before, Barons have Heavy Armor, which makes them immune to arrows with their high defense. Plus, you can sequence break by warping them near a boss or one of Mueller's archers.

And as for why Dread Fighters get such high movements...

Spoiler

Have you seen Naruto?

 

[Quickpawmaud]

I made valbar a dreadfighter just to do a loop and get some speed and instead I am keeping him there he take NO DAMAGE from anything. Barons are terrible. Although I did find a shield that halves all magic damage in the dlc so I may decide to use that on a baron instead but then he would do less damage where as a dread fighter he could have a brave sword and do the same thing. I also found an emperors shield which is absolutely worthless. I think it is supposed to increase your resistance (says it does on the wiki) but it doesn't and weighs more than a steel shield and is worse.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Quickpawmaud

[Armchair General]

Alternatively, you could just rotate and balance your troops if you're getting raped by magic. Seriously, archery makes an great first impression on magicians...Unless they have an Sage Ring. And speaking of shields, it would probably be good to save most of them for your saints and sages (your priestesses needs the extra speed to defensively double and counter-kill).

Edited May 4, 2019 by Armchair General

[Quickpawmaud]

I gave my mages rings to boost their magic or steel shields to boost their defense they have high resistance already. Also the archers in this game I either got really unlucky with or suck the only good one I have is Tobin both Python and Leon can't do much. Python never hits and Leon never doubles and almost never hits. I gave them good bows too they just do not perform.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Quickpawmaud

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Quickpawmaud said:

The first two suggestions would be fine but the problem is dread fighters get that stupid skill to halve all magic damage so in order to make armored guys good you have to nerf dread fighter too. I do not understand why dread fighters get 7 movement, resistance boost, and half all magic damage. Cavaliers just get movement I think and barons get nothing.

If you think knights have it bad here, then you must not have played Genealogy of the Holy War or Binding Blade.

1 hour ago, Armchair General said:

Alternatively, you could just rotate and balance your troops if you're getting raped by magic. Seriously, archery makes an great first impression on magicians...Unless they have an Sage Ring. And speaking of shields, it would probably be good to save most of them for your saints and sages (your priestesses needs the extra speed to defensively double and counter-kill).

Personally, I found my own mages to be better countermeasures for enemy mages than archers, more often than not - archers in this game tend to miss So. Damn. Often. Especially when terrain is a concern, which is pretty much all the time with regard to Cantors.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Quickpawmaud]

I have only played Shadow Dragon and the 3DS games. Although I have not finished a game yet and only played the first few chapters in Shadow Dragon. Never used knights in Shadow Dragon yet but in Valentia they seem the worst I have seen so far. Possibly because of the fewer class options maybe they have always sucked but because there were more classes they did not stick out as much. I have always liked knights and tanky/defensive playstyles and characters in games.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Quickpawmaud