Do you think Byleth being a silent protagonist will be a good thing or a bad thing?

[Zihark11]

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: Like, uhh, Sigurd? As in, the same Sigurd you just so happen to be singing the praises of? In all honesty, I find him one of the lamest protagonists to ever (dis)grace a Fire Emblem game, right down there with Eirika.

Fair enough. i personally think Corrin, Robin, and Marth are the ones with least amount of depth but i can see why you dislike Erika, i did for quite awhile.  

[Decerd]

I don’t like how Byleth is silent. I liked how Robin and Corrin were their own characters instead of a blank slate. It’s a real step back, one that could cripple the game of handled poorly.

[Slyfox]

7 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

So far I think making Byleth a silent protagonist I a good idea. Some of my favorite games has silent protagonists (KOTOR, Fallout NV, Persona). The key here is balance of the focus in the character. From the trailers so far it makes it seems that it is Byleth's journey and not the lord trio. Hopefully that will only be the first new chapters. I wonder how supports are going to play out?

OneStep already addressed this point. KotOR and Fallout NV protagonists are not voiced but are faaaaar from silent. You choose what they say or do down the the very word. It's full-on dialogue!

Persona, however, is very much the kind silent protagonist shenanigans we are currently discussing.

 

Moving on to the spotlight and player worship issue...

I'd compare the Robin spotlight stealing to Alucard from the Netflix Castlevania show. He's a main character, sure, but it is still nonetheless Trevor's story. However, when it comes to Dracula, that's more Alucard's demon to deal with than Trevor.

It's similar to Robin. Aside from a few ominous mentions, an apparent clone and mind-control for kicks, it's not Robin's story until the last few chapters of the game. The last fifth, if I'm being generous. The rest is Chrom's domain. The only reason it seems like spotlight stealing is because Robin is supposed to represent us, right? Consider Robin as a non-customizable character, representing no one but him/herself, and suddenly our tactician becomes far more palatable. I wish I could say the same about Corrin...

Edited May 8, 2019 by Slyfox

[NekoKnight]

10 hours ago, Slyfox said:

It's similar to Robin. Aside from a few ominous mentions, an apparent clone and mind-control for kicks, it's not Robin's story until the last few chapters of the game. The last fifth, if I'm being generous. The rest is Chrom's domain. The only reason it seems like spotlight stealing is because Robin is supposed to represent us, right? Consider Robin as a non-customizable character, representing no one but him/herself, and suddenly our tactician becomes far more palatable. I wish I could say the same about Corrin...

I never understood the mentality behind Robin "stealing" anything. The whole game is about how Chrom and Robin have this incomparable bond that will overcome everything but as soon as Robin gets any story focus, suddenly the game was always intended to be the the CHROM show and Robin is a dirty usurper. Was this just bad blood carrying over from Kris? Robin is by far the least offensive Avatar (beyond Mark, but that's not even a character) so it's strange that people had such venom for him that was better spent on Kris and Corrin.

[Rose482]

7 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

I never understood the mentality behind Robin "stealing" anything. The whole game is about how Chrom and Robin have this incomparable bond that will overcome everything but as soon as Robin gets any story focus, suddenly the game was always intended to be the the CHROM show and Robin is a dirty usurper. Was this just bad blood carrying over from Kris? Robin is by far the least offensive Avatar (beyond Mark, but that's not even a character) so it's strange that people had such venom for him that was better spent on Kris and Corrin.

Yeah I don't like when people act like somehow Robin was this...screen time hog, when he pretty much wasn't? Like I'm pretty sure some people just wanted Robin to be irreverent to the whole story of FE13, and the fact he wasn't made them angry  Also let's be real, if Robin wasn't an "Avatar" he probably wouldn't get half the hate he gets normally.

[TheDreamReturns]

Honestly, Robin brings out some of the same feelings in me that Alm did. There's nothing appealing to praise but nothing egregious to spew venom at, a very dull and lukewarm feeling that I hope Mute Teacher Ike Senpai here doesn't replicate.

Corrin may have been abysmal, but at least the garbage writing gave something to talk about there. At least the experience was memorable in a twisted sort of way and not just "serviceable and generic main character guy with a few unique bits here and there".

I think that's sort of why this self-insert stuff has me a teensy bit apprehensive, but then again I AM a Persona fan so maybe the feeling is just leftover venom from Fates seeping through again.

[Interdimensional Observer]

I'd draw the Chrom-Robin divide so:

Plegia Arc: All Chrom, with Robin doing a little stuff like formulating the failed plan to rescue Emmeryn, just to remind you Robin is important.

Valm Arc: Chrom formally leads, but things are more or less equal here. Neither is particularly connected to Walhart or Valm. Walhart does exchange words and ideals with Chrom a little, and Robin helps concoct two good strats here- a sea of fire, and a retreat into flames, but neither truly stands out. There are the Hierophant Looks Just Like Me! and "Validar is human and can have sex?" moments right at the start of this arc for Robin, accompanied immediately by a very Chrom-Lucina moment.

Grimleal Arc: Robin takes control of the show once Grima reveals itself, but Chrom still plenty relevant, he does feign death and get Falchion unsealed.

[Roland]

You know, one thing I’d like from Byleth is for them to be hated by people who aren’t just the antagonists. One of the big reasons I don’t like the three previous avatars is how  just about everyone treated them like these “holier than thou” characters who could do no wrong, which only added to their Sue/Stu status as characters.

Have some people in Three Houses who initially don’t trust Byleth, but as they slowly work their way through the game winning battles as they go along, they gradually win the trust of the characters around them, as opposed to just having everyone liking them instantly. That would make Byleth a 10x more interesting character than Robin or Corrin.

[NekoKnight]

Just now, Roland said:

You know, one thing I’d like from Byleth is for them to be hated by people who aren’t just the antagonists. One of the big reasons I don’t like the three previous avatars is how  just about everyone treated them like these “holier than thou” characters who could do no wrong, which only added to their Sue/Stu status as characters.

Have some people in Three Houses who initially don’t trust Byleth, but as they slowly work their way through the game winning battles as they go along, they gradually win the trust of the characters around them, as opposed to just having everyone liking them instantly. That would make Byleth a 10x more interesting character than Robin or Corrin.

I'm on board for this. One thing I loved about Path of Radiance is that Shinnon leaves the mercenary band with Gatrie once Ike takes command. Some would say that Shinnon's disapproval is meaningless because he's an asshole, and while they're not wrong about Shinnon being a jerk, he has valid points about Ike's lack of experience.

I don't think that will happen in TH though. From what we've seen so far, from the moment you save Edelgard, you seem to be the most popular guy at the school. Not that such a feat shouldn't be lauded but somehow I doubt the game is going to humble the protagonist in any way.
 

 

[PrincessAlyson]

17 minutes ago, Roland said:

Have some people in Three Houses who initially don’t trust Byleth, but as they slowly work their way through the game winning battles as they go along, they gradually win the trust of the characters around them, as opposed to just having everyone liking them instantly

I fully agree! Even for Robin, it was only Frederick and Phila that distrusted her/him and they came around. Everyone else was like "Okay, new member. Welcome." And Corrin... My goodness, it was like s/he could do no wrong at all. Some of it I chalk up to Fates' bad writing, but most of it was just... Ugh, why is Takumi like the only one who calls you out for stuff (there are a few others but he's the most memorable)?

Byleth needs to make mistakes and grow from them. Even Robin did that while Corrin stayed the same. Winning trust is difficult so I hope they implement that somehow!

[Flere210]

Lords are loved by everyone, not just avatars.

Shinnon is the only character that hate Ike, and he is hardly a good person, unless we consider racist assholes that happen to fight on your side good guys. Raven is the only character that hate any of the FE7 lords and he only hated Hector because of his name.

Marth, the twins, Roy, Seliph, Chrom... none of them is hated by any good character i can think of( i may obviously forget something). They just did not get to support everyone.

I am not againist having more interesting characters, but they really never did anything special with the protagonist, and so i doubt they will thia time, unless you can choice to be an asshole. Sigurd himself is only special for what happen to hin, rather than for what he does.

[Shadow Mir]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

You know, one thing I’d like from Byleth is for them to be hated by people who aren’t just the antagonists. One of the big reasons I don’t like the three previous avatars is how  just about everyone treated them like these “holier than thou” characters who could do no wrong, which only added to their Sue/Stu status as characters.

Have some people in Three Houses who initially don’t trust Byleth, but as they slowly work their way through the game winning battles as they go along, they gradually win the trust of the characters around them, as opposed to just having everyone liking them instantly. That would make Byleth a 10x more interesting character than Robin or Corrin.

 

2 hours ago, PrincessAlyson said:

I fully agree! Even for Robin, it was only Frederick and Phila that distrusted her/him and they came around. Everyone else was like "Okay, new member. Welcome." And Corrin... My goodness, it was like s/he could do no wrong at all. Some of it I chalk up to Fates' bad writing, but most of it was just... Ugh, why is Takumi like the only one who calls you out for stuff (there are a few others but he's the most memorable)?

Byleth needs to make mistakes and grow from them. Even Robin did that while Corrin stayed the same. Winning trust is difficult so I hope they implement that somehow!

To be fair, this is not an avatar-exclusive thing. Only like two lords in the entire series didn't have a 100% approval rating among their casts.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[PrincessAlyson]

11 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

To be fair, this is not an avatar-exclusive thing. Only like two lords in the entire series didn't have a 100% approval rating among their casts.

True. I'd like to see less 100% approval for future Lords too so that they look like they're tying to improve themselves. They're likable characters, but they could be so much better if they had to deal with criticism and sort through what's helpful and what's not.

[eclipse]

9 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I never understood the mentality behind Robin "stealing" anything. The whole game is about how Chrom and Robin have this incomparable bond that will overcome everything but as soon as Robin gets any story focus, suddenly the game was always intended to be the the CHROM show and Robin is a dirty usurper. Was this just bad blood carrying over from Kris? Robin is by far the least offensive Avatar (beyond Mark, but that's not even a character) so it's strange that people had such venom for him that was better spent on Kris and Corrin.

I have issues with Robin, but they're more from a story/writing standpoint. . .and have nothing to do with the topic of Byleth being silent.

In other words, Robin the Character was okay, Robin the Character With That Story was not.  Which hopefully won't carry over to Byleth.

Edited May 8, 2019 by eclipse

[Clathy]

My main concern with the silent protag is supports, like it has already been raised.

If Byleth is a silent protagonist, I definitely hope that there will be no supports with them. It will be super weird if Byleth is silent and we choose their answers and suddenly they talk and have a personnality out of nowhere. As someone already said, I guess it will just be interactions with characters where you choose your answer to gain support points.

But, if it means that supports between the other characters have been removed, or drastically changed.... it's unsettling. I don't believe so, since it's a big thing for the franchise, but I'm a little bit worried.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Clathy

[Onestep]

On ‎07‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 7:47 PM, Hekselka said:

Not sure what to make of it. I've read that Awakening had an option to have Robin be a silent protagonist and that doesn't surprise me. He seems very fitting for that role since Lucina/Chrom have a ton of dialogue themselves BUT in this case I don't know if it would work because Byleth will probably be important if his connection with Sothis leads anywhere.

Ah, I see you're a fellow human of culture as well.

Bought Growlanser: Wayfarer of Time a long time ago on my Vita and it's one of my top 10 favorite games and one of the reasons is that it handles choices in game through dialogue so well. If 3H did have a system similar to WoT I'd be all for it. 

Ha! That mental image gave me a good chuckle.

Best thing about Growlanser: WoT was how the game actually scored your personality. If you continually acted brave and confident, then the game opened up more brave conversation options and closed off more villainous ones. Act like a villain? Game closes off some more heroic options and opened some mean responses. And so on.

[Decerd]

5 hours ago, Roland said:

You know, one thing I’d like from Byleth is for them to be hated by people who aren’t just the antagonists. One of the big reasons I don’t like the three previous avatars is how  just about everyone treated them like these “holier than thou” characters who could do no wrong, which only added to their Sue/Stu status as characters.

Have some people in Three Houses who initially don’t trust Byleth, but as they slowly work their way through the game winning battles as they go along, they gradually win the trust of the characters around them, as opposed to just having everyone liking them instantly. That would make Byleth a 10x more interesting character than Robin or Corrin.

This issue isn’t strictly related to Robin and Corrin. Nearly all of the Fire Emblem lords are treated like everyone’s best friend, so that’s blatantly wrong. Besides, what the point of having you control an army if everyone hates you?

[Roland]

6 minutes ago, Decerd said:

This issue isn’t strictly related to Robin and Corrin. Nearly all of the Fire Emblem lords are treated like everyone’s best friend, so that’s blatantly wrong.

That may be, but I’d argue Robin and Corrin are the worst when it comes to this, more so than any other main character in Fire Emblem.

7 minutes ago, Decerd said:

 Besides, what the point of having you control an army if everyone hates you?

I never said everyone should hate Byleth. I said I’d like for some characters to distrust him, but not every single character. Your putting words in my mouth man.

[Decerd]

4 minutes ago, Roland said:

That may be, but I’d argue Robin and Corrin are the worst when it comes to this, more so than any other main character in Fire Emblem.

Even though this is an issue that’s not strictly related to the two. But hey, you’ve been constantly going on and on about how Robin and Corrin are the worst thing to have happened to Fire Emblem, so it’s not like anything I or anyone else can say will stop you at this point.

7 minutes ago, Roland said:

I never said everyone should hate Byleth. I said I’d like for some characters to distrust him, but not every single character. Your putting words in my mouth man.

I didn’t put words in your mouth. Stop being hostile.

[Ottservia]

10 minutes ago, Roland said:

That may be, but I’d argue Robin and Corrin are the worst when it comes to this, more so than any other main character in Fire Emblem.

Corrin maybe but Robin definitely not. If anything I find Alm to be the worst offender

Edited May 8, 2019 by Ottservia

[Roland]

8 minutes ago, Decerd said:

Even though this is an issue that’s not strictly related to the two. 

Didn’t I just agree with you on that?

8 minutes ago, Decerd said:

But hey, you’ve been constantly going on and on about how Robin and Corrin are the worst thing to have happened to Fire Emblem, so it’s not like anything I or anyone else can say will stop you at this point.

When have I been going “on and on” about Robin and Corrin? I only bring them up when it’s appropriate to the topic at hand. You don’t see me starting whole treads dedicated to slamming the two now do you?

8 minutes ago, Decerd said:

I didn’t put words in your mouth. Stop being hostile.

You kinda did. And I’m not being the hostile one here.

7 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Corrin maybe but Robin definitely not

I respectfully disagree. Chrom brings in Robin, can’t remember anything but his name, to be tactian of the Shepard’s, and nobody raises an eyebrow at that? I’m just saying.

[Armagon]

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

I respectfully disagree. Chrom brings in Robin, can’t remember anything but his name, to be tactian of the Shepard’s, and nobody raises an eyebrow at that? I’m just saying.

Except Robin actually proved himself before he became a Shepard so that point's kinda moot.

[Ottservia]

2 minutes ago, Roland said:

I respectfully disagree. Chrom brings in Robin, can’t remember anything but his name, to be tactian of the Shepard’s, and nobody raises an eyebrow at that? I’m just saying.

Freddy would like to have a word with you. Granted his suspicions are short lived but for good reason. I mean you just helped save a burning village from a bandit attack and for the most part proved your loyalty in that battle along with the one to follow against the risen. Robin easily could’ve ran but he stayed and helped. I’d say that’s more than enough to relieve any suspicion.

[Decerd]

8 minutes ago, Roland said:

Didn’t I just agree with you on that?

Then I guess you’ll also agree that you made that point up just to get a pot shot at the two of them then?

10 minutes ago, Roland said:

When have I been going “on and on” about Robin and Corrin? I only bring them up when it’s appropriate to the topic at hand. You don’t see me starting whole treads dedicated to slamming the two now do you?

Whenever anything gets brought up about Awakening and Fates, you trash it because you don’t like it. Nevermind the fact others out there like the two games, you slam it because it’s not “a philosophical journey like the old FE titles.” If you’re going to slam a game, at least have the decency to be upfront about slamming it and not coming up with some contrived reason to slam it.

13 minutes ago, Roland said:

You kinda did. And I’m not being the hostile one here.

You sure about that? 

14 minutes ago, Roland said:

I respectfully disagree. Chrom brings in Robin, can’t remember anything but his name, to be tactian of the Shepard’s, and nobody raises an eyebrow at that? I’m just saying.

Robin proved themselves before joining the Shepards. Now not only at you complaining, you’re also being stupid. 

[Roland]

14 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Except Robin actually proved himself before he became a Shepard so that point's kinda moot.

 

13 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Freddy would like to have a word with you. Granted his suspicions are short lived but for good reason. I mean you just helped save a burning village from a bandit attack and for the most part proved your loyalty in that battle along with the one to follow against the risen. Robin easily could’ve ran but he stayed and helped. I’d say that’s more than enough to relieve any suspicion.

Yes, Robin showed he’s a good tactican, but I personally think that people were too trusting of Robin. I find it hard to believe that people would wholeheartedly treat someone they don’t know who also claims to have lost his memory to be their friend straight out of the gate. 

6 minutes ago, Decerd said:

Then I guess you’ll also agree that you made that point up just to get a pot shot at the two of them then?

Now you’re diving into conspiracy theory levels of nonsense here. How do you know that my gripes with the Avatars are “made up” as you say? 

9 minutes ago, Decerd said:

Whenever anything gets brought up about Awakening and Fates, you trash it because you don’t like it.

Welcome to the existence of differing opinions. And I don’t trash everything about the two games. Despite how I feel, they do have some solid points to them, the music, Conquest’s gameplay, some of the characters I like for example.

 

14 minutes ago, Decerd said:

. Nevermind the fact others out there like the two games, you slam it because it’s not “a philosophical journey like the old FE titles.” 

I can live with that. I can live with people liking the two games I don’t like, and I can also live with people criticizing games I like. And what the hell do you mean by that quote? FE wasn’t a philosophical journey of any kind to begin with, and I certainly didn’t say that, if that’s what you’re trying to imply.

18 minutes ago, Decerd said:

If you’re going to slam a game, at least have the decency to be upfront about slamming it and not coming up with some contrived reason to slam it.

And you can at least have the decency not to be a jerk when discussing differing opinions.