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Do you think Byleth being a silent protagonist will be a good thing or a bad thing?

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2 minutes ago, Roland said:

Now you’re diving into conspiracy theory levels of nonsense here. How do you know that my gripes with the Avatars are “made up” as you say? 

Because you’re an elisist. I don’t have to prove it, it’s self goddamn evident.

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

Welcome to the existence of differing opinions. And I don’t trash everything about the two games. 

No, but I bet you feel awfully good about dumping on two genuinely good games that you for some reason hate don’t you?

5 minutes ago, Roland said:

I can live with that. I can live with people liking the two games I don’t like, and I can also live with people criticizing games I like. 

You’re doing a bang up job of “living with it.”.

7 minutes ago, Roland said:

And what the hell do you mean by that quote? FE wasn’t a philosophical journey of any kind to begin with, and I certainly didn’t say that, if that’s what you’re trying to imply.

People like you think that before the “heretical 3DS titles of Satan!” happened, Fire Emblem was the grand, Lord of The Rings journey specifically targeted towards the West, when in reality it wasn’t. It was just a nice, fun strategy-RPG. But know the “mean, old weeabos have infected this precious series of mine!”, you hate it. You hate it for being something it never was. And that is why you and your kind are a bunch of losers.

11 minutes ago, Roland said:

And you can at least have the decency not to be a jerk when discussing differing opinions.

Can’t blame me for starting a fire when you’re the one who lit the match, buddy.

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25 minutes ago, Roland said:

Yes, Robin showed he’s a good tactican, but I personally think that people were too trusting of Robin. I find it hard to believe that people would wholeheartedly treat someone they don’t know who also claims to have lost his memory to be their friend straight out of the gate. 

It’s a little thing called nuance. Most of the shepherds trust him because Chrom, Emmeryn, Lissa, and Frederick trust him. Those four trust him because Robin risked his life to help save Ylissean lives and proved his loyalty. It really isn’t that hard to wrap your head around. Like I’m sorry if I sound condescending here but I really don’t see why you’re so hard on this game’s story cause it really isn’t as bad as you’re making it out to be. I mean opinions and all that but you’re presenting your case as an objective argument and that’s when I feel I have to say something 

Edited by Ottservia

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9 minutes ago, Decerd said:

Because you’re an elisist. I don’t have to prove it, it’s self goddamn evident.

Hear that everyone? According to this guy, I’m an elisit, no actual, credible proof required.

10 minutes ago, Decerd said:

No, but I bet you feel awfully good about dumping on two genuinely good games that you for some reason hate don’t you?

I don’t feel anything, other than tiredness of having to deal with this nonsense.

12 minutes ago, Decerd said:

People like you think that before the “heretical 3DS titles of Satan!” happened, Fire Emblem was the grand, Lord of The Rings journey specifically targeted towards the West, when in reality it wasn’t. It was just a nice, fun strategy-RPG. But know the “mean, old weeabos have infected this precious series of mine!”, you hate it. You hate it for being something it never was. And that is why you and your kind are a bunch of losers.

You’re trolling me at this point, right?

 

12 minutes ago, Decerd said:

Can’t blame me for starting a fire when you’re the one who lit the match, buddy.

I didn’t start any fire here. Funny that you of all people lecture me about starting one. I’m finished talking with you.

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Anyways, while it would be interesting to have some characters be wary/distrust Byleth initially, I don’t think we’ll see any of the students in the academy having that role just because the nature of the whole student teacher relationship. This is why I hope they’ll confirm whether we’ll get any units outside of the school setting because that’s where I can see people that are not as trusting joining the party.

I can also see the lords trusting Byleth initially but when more information about the whole communication with Sothis thing is revealed to them, they’ll gradually grow more distant and wary.

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I see the three lords trusting Byleth, but not enough to tell him/her everything about themselves, and maybe with time their trust for Byleth would grow, I think that's how it's going to be really. And why would someone not trust Byleth anyway? If he's just a teacher, it would be weird to NOT trust him without any reason, right?  Or at least not right away.

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19 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

It’s a little thing called nuance. Most of the shepherds trust him because Chrom, Emmeryn, Lissa, and Frederick trust him. Those four trust him because Robin risked his life to help save Ylissean lives and proved his loyalty. It really isn’t that hard to wrap your head around. Like I’m sorry if I sound condescending here but I really don’t see why you’re so hard on this game’s story cause it really isn’t as bad as you’re making it out to be. I mean opinions and all that but you’re presenting your case as an objective argument and that’s when I feel I have to say something 

Pay no attention to him. The only way losers like him will disappear is if we ignore him and his Texas sized bullshit.

12 minutes ago, Roland said:

You’re trolling me at this point, right?

Nope. People like you are the reason this community gets a bad and undeserving reputation. You’ve allowed your ego to cloud your judgement, and you act like your opinion is the only opinion that matters. Weather you want to admit or not, Awakening and Fates will live on as loved games that saved a dying series. They breathed new life into this series, while your precious older titles nearly killed it. That’s right. Your favorite games nearly killed this series. The numbers prove it. Face it, people like you are no longer the main customer of this series. I am, @Ottservia is, @Thane is, @SatsumaFSoysoy is, @Armagon is, and many others like them are now the customers and true fans of this series now. You, as well as every other old-guard gatekeeper out there, is an afterthought. I know it, everyone else with an IQ higher than 10 knows it, Nintendo knows it, Intelligence Systems knows it, and deep down, you know it. You know it, and angers the ever living fuck out of you, doesn’t it?

You want to see this series improve? Leave it and let the actual auidance of Fire Emblem play and support it, instead of trying to change it back into something it never was. Swear to God, you veteran Fire Emblem fans are about as bad as the assholes who rob people with the end of a weapon pointed at their face. Rant freaking over.

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3 minutes ago, Decerd said:

Nope. People like you are the reason this community gets a bad and undeserving reputation. You’ve allowed your ego to cloud your judgement, and you act like your opinion is the only opinion that matters. Weather you want to admit or not, Awakening and Fates will live on as loved games that saved a dying series. They breathed new life into this series, while your precious older titles nearly killed it. That’s right. Your favorite games nearly killed this series. The numbers prove it. Face it, people like you are no longer the main customer of this series. I am, @Ottservia is, @Thane is, @SatsumaFSoysoy is, @Armagon is, and many others like them are now the customers and true fans of this series now. You, as well as every other old-guard gatekeeper out there, is an afterthought. I know it, everyone else with an IQ higher than 10 knows it, Nintendo knows it, Intelligence Systems knows it, and deep down, you know it. You know it, and angers the ever living fuck out of you, doesn’t it?

Woah, woah hold on don't drag other innocent people into your debate with another person, if someone agrees with you I think they can speak for themselves.

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33 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

It’s a little thing called nuance. Most of the shepherds trust him because Chrom, Emmeryn, Lissa, and Frederick trust him. Those four trust him because Robin risked his life to help save Ylissean lives and proved his loyalty. It really isn’t that hard to wrap your head around. Like I’m sorry if I sound condescending here but I really don’t see why you’re so hard on this game’s story cause it really isn’t as bad as you’re making it out to be. I mean opinions and all that but you’re presenting your case as an objective argument and that’s when I feel I have to say something 

Hey man, I’m just not a fan of how Robin was handled in this game. You disagree? Great. We can still post in the same thread and have a civil discussion right?

7 minutes ago, Decerd said:

Pay no attention to him. The only way losers like him will disappear is if we ignore him and his Texas sized bullshit.

Nope. People like you are the reason this community gets a bad and undeserving reputation. You’ve allowed your ego to cloud your judgement, and you act like your opinion is the only opinion that matters. Weather you want to admit or not, Awakening and Fates will live on as loved games that saved a dying series. They breathed new life into this series, while your precious older titles nearly killed it. That’s right. Your favorite games nearly killed this series. The numbers prove it. Face it, people like you are no longer the main customer of this series. I am, @Ottservia is, @Thane is, @SatsumaFSoysoy is, @Armagon is, and many others like them are now the customers and true fans of this series now. You, as well as every other old-guard gatekeeper out there, is an afterthought. I know it, everyone else with an IQ higher than 10 knows it, Nintendo knows it, Intelligence Systems knows it, and deep down, you know it. You know it, and angers the ever living fuck out of you, doesn’t it?

You want to see this series improve? Leave it and let the actual auidance of Fire Emblem play and support it, instead of trying to change it back into something it never was. Swear to God, you veteran Fire Emblem fans are about as bad as the assholes who rob people with the end of a weapon pointed at their face. Rant freaking over.

.......

You know, I thought at first you were a troll, but now you’ve shown you’re flat out crazy. Decerd, if you genuinely, seriously, honest to God believe everything you just said in that post, I seriously recommend seeing help. This isn’t normal behavior in the slightest.

Edited by Roland

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5 minutes ago, Roland said:

You know, I thought at first you were a troll, but now you’ve shown you’re flat out crazy. Decerd, if you genuinely, seriously, honest to God believe everything you just said in that post, I seriously recommend seeing help. This isn’t normal behavior in the slightest.

Help? Help with what? Telling the truth? I don’t need anyone’s help in order to do that.

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Don't mean to minimod or anything, but just as advice, you can always put someone on your ignore list if they really upset you too much of the time. That should make things better. It has for me. 

Don't live in an echo chamber, but you don't need to hear all voices all the time, this is only a video games board, not something much more serious. You can zone out people here, though I'd rather you not do so on other non-VG topics which I'll not name specifically.

 

Uhhh... to add something to what is being discussed, we already have had with Tokyo Mirage Sessions a semi-silent MC. Itsuki does talk normal conversational dialogue, but his personality is so muted it would not be hard at all to make him silent protag. 

Also, FE3 Book 1 Marth had so little substance to himself that I think for most of that story he could be called a self-insert. Towards the end not so much, but the rest of it? Yes.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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In very upset about this. 

 

For one, I hate dialogue where they summarize what you say 

 

secondly I hate how awkward and clunky silent protagonists are with their weird movements. It’s not just that they don’t make sound but they are all with a huge lack of heart. It looks lazy, outdated, and distracting. 

 

 

Silent protagonists should never be in story based games especially not if they are the main character. 

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12 minutes ago, Decerd said:

Help? Help with what? Telling the truth? I don’t need anyone’s help in order to do that.

Nope. Help with the fact that you think veteran FE fans are about as horrible as armed robbers.

 

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You may wish to specify psychological or mental help. 

 

On the topic of silent avatars, I think they kind of add a choose your own adventure type of feel to it if you have limited dialogue choices. You can sort of fill in the blanks for what you imagine the avatar saying because let's be honest how similar are all of our classes going to be? Some of us wanna make armored healers and dragon riders that punch things, it'd be hard to have a fully voiced avatar discuss *all* the potential classes we could be assigning our students.

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20 minutes ago, Decerd said:

Pay no attention to him. The only way losers like him will disappear is if we ignore him and his Texas sized bullshit.

Nope. People like you are the reason this community gets a bad and undeserving reputation. You’ve allowed your ego to cloud your judgement, and you act like your opinion is the only opinion that matters. Weather you want to admit or not, Awakening and Fates will live on as loved games that saved a dying series. They breathed new life into this series, while your precious older titles nearly killed it. That’s right. Your favorite games nearly killed this series. The numbers prove it. Face it, people like you are no longer the main customer of this series. I am, @Ottservia is, @Thane is, @SatsumaFSoysoy is, @Armagon is, and many others like them are now the customers and true fans of this series now. You, as well as every other old-guard gatekeeper out there, is an afterthought. I know it, everyone else with an IQ higher than 10 knows it, Nintendo knows it, Intelligence Systems knows it, and deep down, you know it. You know it, and angers the ever living fuck out of you, doesn’t it?

You want to see this series improve? Leave it and let the actual auidance of Fire Emblem play and support it, instead of trying to change it back into something it never was. Swear to God, you veteran Fire Emblem fans are about as bad as the assholes who rob people with the end of a weapon pointed at their face. Rant freaking over.

I think you need to chill.

I think you've been needlessly accusatory, hostile, defensive, and childish about someone stating their own negative opinions about something you like.

I think you don't seem to know how to handle people criticizing your favorite things without assuming the worst in them.

I think you've been a tad hypocritical about telling them they started something while simultaneously flinging unnecessary insults and nonsensical accusations.

I think you calling someone a gatekeeper for having a stance you don't like while telling them to get out of the series like a gatekeeper would is toxic and hypocritical.

I think reviving this toxic "my game saved the franchise yours killed it uwu" stuff is not only evidence of your own unwitting contribution to the toxicity the fanbase is now known for, but a really concerning display of arrogance in something that doesn't truly matter. Slinging the word "elitist" while ironically behaving like one.

I think you need to realize that in the end this is a VIDEO GAME SERIES and it's not really worth throwing a tantrum over while trying to put yourself on a pedestal like you're the good guy/girl here when all you've done is interrupt a discussion with needless conflict that didn't need to exist.

I think you need to take a step away from the computer/whatever it is you're using, take a deep breath, possibly apologize if you even know just what you did wrong here, and direct all this misplaced passion towards something that actually warrants it. And. I. Think. You. Have. Some. Growing. Up. To. Do.

 

 

 

 

Getting BACK ON TOPIC:rolleyes: Having a 100% approval rating from the supporting cast doesn't necessarily veer into player worship territory, I'd say we should be more on the lookout for more absurd stuff like "I just helped a tyrant steamroll your country and left your the hastily crowned queen of a wartorn nation but it's all good because I'm player character". Unless it gets THAT bad, I wont have many complaints.

 

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41 minutes ago, zuibangde said:

Anyways, while it would be interesting to have some characters be wary/distrust Byleth initially, I don’t think we’ll see any of the students in the academy having that role just because the nature of the whole student teacher relationship.

I mean, we could always have some asshole students. Even in real life, some students are just assholes to their teachers. Maybe we could get that.

27 minutes ago, Decerd said:

Nope. People like you are the reason this community gets a bad and undeserving reputation. You’ve allowed your ego to cloud your judgement, and you act like your opinion is the only opinion that matters. Weather you want to admit or not, Awakening and Fates will live on as loved games that saved a dying series. They breathed new life into this series, while your precious older titles nearly killed it. That’s right. Your favorite games nearly killed this series. The numbers prove it. Face it, people like you are no longer the main customer of this series. I am, @Ottservia is, @Thane is, @SatsumaFSoysoy is, @Armagon is, and many others like them are now the customers and true fans of this series now. You, as well as every other old-guard gatekeeper out there, is an afterthought. I know it, everyone else with an IQ higher than 10 knows it, Nintendo knows it, Intelligence Systems knows it, and deep down, you know it. You know it, and angers the ever living fuck out of you, doesn’t it?

Please stop. Don't drag me into your petty nonsense and i don't think anyone else you mentioned has any desire to be part of it either. 

1 minute ago, TheDreamReturns said:

Having a 100% approval rating from the supporting cast doesn't necessarily veer into player worship territory, I'd say we should be more on the lookout for more absurd stuff like "I just helped a tyrant steamroll your country and left your the hastily crowned queen of a wartorn nation but it's all good because I'm player character". Unless it gets THAT bad, I wont have many complaints.

Yeah, that's definitely the more concerning territory. So far, Corrin is the only Lord who has reached absurd status of worship. But i think IS has learned a lot from Fates' mistakes. Well, at least i hope they did. Both Echoes and from what little we've seen of Three Houses seem to indicate that.

 

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Hmm. For starters for me, the question is, if he's gonna be a silent protagonist, what sort is he actually gonna be? It's clear that the protag isn't entirely silent, they have dialogue choices at some points at least. So it's not like Link from Ocarina of Time where there's literally never any spoken dialogue given to him and you just infer what he's saying in various interactions.

But on the other hand, what dialogue options and choices we've seen from the protag are very short and not all that significant. That worked with Mark, because Mark was just kind of an outsider watching the events that involved other characters. But Byleth is clearly directly involved in Three Houses. They're receiving visions from the dragon girl. They seem to have a special sword. They're the child of the greatest knight the church has ever know. They're the professor that teaches the main lord of the game and has an entire class of students they interact with.

And so, if during all of that, the entirety of their dialogue during these interactions is just occasionally pausing to say things like "of course" then I think I'm gonna be disappointed. Maybe they'll pull it off somehow, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

And I don't have a problem with a game where all or the majority of the protag's dialogue is directly chosen by the player, Knights of the Old Republic did that and I loved. I just want the amount of dialogue they have, the length and variety of it, to make sense based on their involvement in the story and with the other characters.

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For me personally, I think I'd prefer Byleth to be silent with the assumption that he/she isn't the main focus of the story. I hope that Byleth ends up being more of a supporting character and the focus is the leader of the house you choose. I guess I'd just find that more interesting than Byleth being the protagonist. However, if Byleth is the main character it would be really jarring for them to be silent.

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19 minutes ago, Roland said:

Nope. Help with the fact that you think veteran FE fans are about as horrible as armed robbers.

 

This person seems to clash with you a lot, I recommend ignoring them. Don't feed trolls, starve them until they forage elsewhere :):

 

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yeah, that's definitely the more concerning territory. So far, Corrin is the only Lord who has reached absurd status of worship. But i think IS has learned a lot from Fates' mistakes. Well, at least i hope they did. Both Echoes and from what little we've seen of Three Houses seem to indicate that.

Honestly a lot of the problem from Fates' writing stems from being hastily slapped together, which is no doubt a side effect of them having to develop three interconnected games. I doubt we'll be seeing another nasty case of Corrin-itis ever again, no matter how Byleth turns out he'll be better than Corrin. So that's something to be happy about.

1 hour ago, Rose482 said:

I see the three lords trusting Byleth, but not enough to tell him/her everything about themselves, and maybe with time their trust for Byleth would grow, I think that's how it's going to be really. And why would someone not trust Byleth anyway? If he's just a teacher, it would be weird to NOT trust him without any reason, right?  Or at least not right away.

Good Points. Really I'd say this is a case where it's perfectly natural for everyone to be all "gee player character sure is an upstanding guy", unless they have an unnatural fear of education.

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2 minutes ago, TheDreamReturns said:

I doubt we'll be seeing another nasty case of Corrin-itis ever again, no matter how Byleth turns out he'll be better than Corrin. So that's something to be happy about.

I'd say i agree but if Byleth turns out to be a terrible silent Lord, then i might actually prefer Corrin. I will say that i don't think Corrin is the worst Lord (i think that title goes to Sigurd but that's a tale for a different time) but while all the signs are pointing to Byleth being better, i wouldn't put a guarantee in it.

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1 minute ago, Armagon said:

I'd say i agree but if Byleth turns out to be a terrible silent Lord, then i might actually prefer Corrin. I will say that i don't think Corrin is the worst Lord (i think that title goes to Sigurd but that's a tale for a different time) but while all the signs are pointing to Byleth being better, i wouldn't put a guarantee in it.

Fair. I guess I've got kind of a lingering hate-boner for ol' dragonboy. For SEVERAL reasons, excessive player worship just being one of them.

Here's hoping it goes well.

 

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13 minutes ago, TheDreamReturns said:

Good Points. Really I'd say this is a case where it's perfectly natural for everyone to be all "gee player character sure is an upstanding guy", unless they have an unnatural fear of education.

True, Byleth is a teacher, who saved the life of one of the most famous students, and who is also the child of a famous former (and no once again current) Knight of Serios. So it makes some sense for the students at least to trust/like them.

That said I could actually see some people not liking Byleth because they're somewhat an outsider (despite the connection to Jeralt) who is also quite young and is suddenly out of nowhere becoming a teacher and an authority figure. Maybe some might feel that Byleth hasn't earned that position yet really, and dislike them for that reason.

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29 minutes ago, TheDreamReturns said:

*snip*

Call me what you will. But don’t be surprised when years from now, nobody will ever remember nor care about the older games. It’s only a matter of time. All I will say.

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Just now, Decerd said:

Call me what you will. But don’t be surprised when years from now, nobody will ever remember nor care about the older games. It’s only a matter of time. All I will say.

And what if they don't? What if they don't remember the old games? What do you want me to do? Get mad? THIS IS A VIDEO GAME.

Get some fresh air. Learn to socialize. Go trouble someone else.

2 minutes ago, Mad_Scientist said:

That said I could actually see some people not liking Byleth because they're somewhat an outsider (despite the connection to Jeralt) who is also quite young and is suddenly out of nowhere becoming a teacher and an authority figure. Maybe some might feel that Byleth hasn't earned that position yet really, and dislike them for that reason.

I mean that'd be interesting, but seeing as they're the son of someone who's apparently "THE GREATEST KNIGHT WHO EVER LIVED +5" I think they'll be more excited to work with him by association alone. If anything I see people being disappointed in him for not living up the the legacy of his father.

Kinda hoping we get to see Jerry fight. It'd be nice to see a legendary legend of legend like him in action instead of just being TOLD how cool he was. Maybe he was like a one man army on the battlefield, or he was super devoted to the church before leaving for whatever reason.

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42 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yeah, that's definitely the more concerning territory. So far, Corrin is the only Lord who has reached absurd status of worship. But i think IS has learned a lot from Fates' mistakes. Well, at least i hope they did. Both Echoes and from what little we've seen of Three Houses seem to indicate that.

Alm is an improvement on Corrin but I think he's still pretty guilty of the instant adoration that the avatars get. The most concerning bits were when other characters openly admitted their inferiority to Alm.

1 hour ago, Roland said:

.....

You know, I thought at first you were a troll, but now you’ve shown you’re flat out crazy. Decerd, if you genuinely, seriously, honest to God believe everything you just said in that post, I seriously recommend seeing help. This isn’t normal behavior in the slightest.

I just want to say I appreciate the civility and patience you've shown when replying to that crazy person. You didn't deserve that hostility.

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