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What do you want the most out of Three Houses?

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9 hours ago, zuibangde said:

Also less of the following type of support because it’s so boring and my least favourite:

C Support: Let’s spar!

B Support: Wow you’re really tough!

A Support: Let’s spar again! (I think I’m in love)

Decent writing and world building along with fun gameplay. I'd also like to see platonic supports again as well as more variety instead of the above multiple times. Give the characters something to talk about other than sparring: backstories, likes/dislikes, food, pets etc.

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7 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Concerning Nergal and the value of "insanity" as a antagonist motivator, it's not my favorite plot element but in this case, it was a strong piece of world building that we see reflected in Brammimond and Canas' borthers. Nergal's story was also incredibly tragic which, for me, puts it above the typical "for teh evuls" villains.

Yeah, the way I classify Nergal is one side of the abyss over which an individual seeking to master Dark Magic must walk a tightrope. 

  • If one falls to one side, darkness reduces them to a soulless state of inactivity, of being in a magic coma. This is the unseen but spoken of fate of Canas's brothers.
  • If one falls to the other side, darkness enthralls you with a state of maddened hyperactivity. This is Nergal, rotten on the inside, but furiously going about and doing things.

These are opposite extremes, Bramimond the lone true master of darkness was able to avert falling into either. His personality pays a price that makes it uncontrollable, but he retains his memory unlike Nergal, and his will to act also endures entirely. He might not be able to affect the form his words take in his response to a furious questioning by Hector, but he maintains control of the content of the message, which is fundamentally more important.

I wouldn't call Nergal "incredibly tragic", they hide the one most essential scene behind very secret requirements. He is tragic in principle, but I think they could have done more in showing the tragedy, without still venturing towards the fault of pity-magnetism. 

In a sense, having Nergal just be a victim of Dark Magic also undermines him as a villain. Ashnard is known as the Mad King, but his "madness" is him in his sanity, Nergal might be an intimate villain, which is quite good, but his madness is after his sanity is long gone. Nergal is no longer his own rational person, but not being possessed, nor is he somebody else. He is one could argue, a husk of nature.

Although if Nergal wasn't corrupted, then he wouldn't be what he is supposed to be, the Gharnef to Athos's Gotoh. Just pretend Miloah doesn't exist and elevate Gharnef from pupil to friend of Gotoh. There isn't a Darksphere that corrupted Nergal either, but darkness in general still did him in. Gharnef it seems also willingly entered into the Darksphere's power driven by jealousy already in him, so in a way something more of Gharnef remains than does of Nergal post-corruption. Nergal had no such flaws from what we know in him already, he sought power to bring back his wife, but we have less of an idea than with Gharnef of the exact circumstances of how the corruption happened. 

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9 hours ago, zuibangde said:

Fates isn’t unique in the whole brainwashing/insanity thing as Sacred Stones and Blazing Blade (and I think Binding Blade too but I haven’t played that game) used that device as well for their conflicts.

Binding Blade didn't use either, as far as I know, but honestly, Zephiel is just not a good villain, and I cannot buy into his motivation - the misanthrope angle was done better in other games.

8 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Blazing Blade I don't think qualifies. The only "brainwashed" people are warriors who were already killed and resurrected in a way where none of their mind or feelings remain. In order to turn them to your side, you have to kill them first. It's just zombies. I would sooner point to Gharnef's brainwashing in Archanea, (spoiler)'s brainwashing in Warriors, or the Duma Faithful's brainwashing in Echoes. I also think Lyon gets an unfair rap for his brainwashing. I felt like he was a realistically written character who, in the absence of a support group, decided that his country might be saved from a very real catastrophe if he manages to harness the power of a sealed God. He probably even thought that it worked until he started hurting innocent people, and fomortiis feigning some remaining humanity even convinces Eirika at a crucial part of the story. By contrast, you can't be convinced that people who have been Anankos'd are still in their right mind when all they do is laugh and mutter die die die.

Was Gharnef actually brainwashed? I doubt there was anything that implied it, at least in SD. Also, your Lyon mention would've gotten traction if it weren't for the fact that it's Sacred Stones, which somehow manages to have writing with even more holes than Swiss cheese (like the whole earthquake thing, for example, which only gets brought up in one route).

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37 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Was Gharnef actually brainwashed? I doubt there was anything that implied it, at least in SD.

Wasn't it the Darksphere that corrupted him? The same thing he'd later use on Hardin right?

Or am I remembering this wrong?

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I'm already expecting the gameplay to be great and I believe the chap who did the music for Echoes returned for Three Houses, so I believe that part is already taken care of as well. That leaves the story and characters as the big unknowns, and what I hope will really shine. I want a conflict with nuance, where not every problem is solved by the power of friendship or anime tropes, and where the reasoning behind both the playable characters and the antagonists follow an internal logic (and preferably, for the latter, one that isn't "because I'm evil"). 

I'm predicting Rea to be the singer of the main theme, which, if I'm right, bodes well for the church as the villains. If she's regretful over having to betray/go up against the students she has genuinely come to love, but feels like she has to do it because it's her duty/goal she believes in, then there's a lot more room for some genuine drama and heartfelt emotion, rather than her being either completely rotten or a saint who dies by chapter five. 

Something I would like to be avoided is all the lordlings having the same character arcs. I do expect at least one of them having to oppose their family at some point, and I want that to be handled seriously and with a lot of weight. I don't want, say, Dimitri to just hear that his father has invaded Leicester and getting upset about it, choosing to confront his father over the senseless killing and declaring that he'll stand with his nakama; I'd want to see Dimitri having had an inkling about this since early on, and Claude actually getting furious with him. Basically, I want the conflicts to have weight to them and pose serious challenges to the characters involved, and I want the victories to be hard-earned, which make them all the more satisfying. If the three lordlings immediately hit it off and all had to talk to their old folks who lost their ways because they don't have any friends, then it'll feel cheap and watered down. I hope the writers dare to have the characters disagree with and argue with each other.

Bonus points if the world itself is interesting. I don't think there's a high chance we won't fight a dragon/goddess by the end but if they can at least put an Radiant Dawn-like spin on it, then maybe a world-ending threat can work, although this, along with them going too far with the school setting to make it like any other anime show filled with modern day teenagers, remain my two biggest fears.

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5 minutes ago, TheDreamReturns said:

Wasn't it the Darksphere that corrupted him? The same thing he'd later use on Hardin right?

Or am I remembering this wrong?

In Shadow Dragon/FE1 this is said:

Marth:
“Is Imhullu so powerful a magic, then?”

Gotoh:
“Yes. The mage who wields it cannot be killed; cannot be so much as scratched. I was the magic’s guardian once. Knowing its forbidden power could work terrible evils, so I kept it close. But Gharnef, one of my two pupils- Miloah being the other- took the forbidden tome and vanished. 

However, in Mystery Book 2/New Mystery, this is said:

Wendell:
Elrean, listen to me... Gharnef, along with Pontifex Miloah, were Lord Gotoh's best pupils. But Lord Gotoh saw Gharnef's weakness, and so he left Khadein and the Aura tome to Pontifex Miloah. Gharnef, overcome by jealousy, stole the Darksphere from Lord Gotoh, and created the Imhullu tome. As a result... His heart was trapped within the Darksphere for all eternity. Wrath and envy led him to ruin. Do you understand now, Elrean...?

I'm inclined to take Mystery's version as the actual account of things, and by stealing the Darksphere, Gharnef did create Imhullu. The Darksphere didn't exist in FE1 (well it did in the unused data alongside a Timesphere, but not in the game's lore), so I consider Mystery to have done a perfectly fine retcon. And this is what I'm basing my interpretation of Gharnef on. He had to have good points, otherwise why would Gotoh take him in as a student? But the faults it seems already existed in him, which the Darksphere amplified and not just accidentally; Nergal on the other hand we know nothing of faults before being corrupted.

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Decent writing and character story, of course. Although ever since they made Gaiden's near not at all story into Echoes, I trust them a lot more now.

Also, this may be me only, but I want to get to know the rulers of the countries and Jeralt before the big event happens.

Finally, I want at least one path where all the houses team up to face a great evil. Though the chances of this happening is near none.

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Aside from obvious stuff like a good story and gameplay, I am hoping they add in a couple new and interesting classes.

I am somewhat nervous about this because so far we have only seen the classes we are already accustomed to, aside from Noble/Commoner.

Hoping that third tier promotions will bring something cool.

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27 minutes ago, Deathcon said:

Decent writing and character story, of course. Although ever since they made Gaiden's near not at all story into Echoes, I trust them a lot more now.

I feel the opposite way; Echoes showed that Fates wasn't just a single horrible mistake and that bad writing on a fundamental level is probably to be expected in Three Houses as well. I'm hoping not, and based only on what we've seen so far I'd say things are looking pretty good barring perhaps the school setting, but Echoes is a major red flag.

29 minutes ago, Deathcon said:

Finally, I want at least one path where all the houses team up to face a great evil. Though the chances of this happening is near none.

I personally don't expect there to be different routes. I think choosing the house to teach wll only affect the starting squad and perhaps a few lines and the role of the house leader. However, if that's not the case, and we do get other routes, then pulling a Revelation would be the biggest mistake they could make.

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I'd want, at the very least, memorable characters and decent gameplay. Though that shouldn't be too much to ask, since with the exception of Jugdral, FE games tend to have solid gameplay.

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3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Was Gharnef actually brainwashed? I doubt there was anything that implied it, at least in SD.

I didn't actually consider Gharnef himself, but his brainwashing of Tiki in Shadow Dragon and the four sacrificial maidens in Book 2. 

10 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

The Galeforce mention, I'm not really feeling - it was a level 15 skill in a game where you normally wouldn't see such skills until the very end of the game, particularly in Fates, where it was nerfed (to be fair, though, that nerf was needed), in addition to being locked behind a paywall. On the other hand, I would be concerned if Canto came back...

The Galeforce craze was palpable for Awakening. People went out of their way to get it on every unit that could naturally get it, as well as micromanage their pairings so it's on their favorite units. I didn't even recall it being in Fates. And with Awakening's flood of Endgame/post game chapters and paralogues, people going for a completionist playthrough before or after the end incidentally got a lot of grinding in regardless of whether it's warranted. You don't have to tell me Galeforce is not necessary to beat the game...you don't even need to tell me you can beat the game with just Chrom and Robin paired up, that was how I got through Lunatic once grinding was possible. I'm just saying if a skill in Three Houses has a similar bandwagon, people will go out of their way for it, and in the process destroy the remaining challenge of the game with all the stats they earn. That's what would suck.

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I've got to admit that from everything I've seen so far, none of it is screaming "BUY A SWITCH!" to me. I bought my 3DS for Awakening and never regretted it. and I had hoped it would be a similar case with Three Houses, but... so far? Not likely.

What would I want out of the game? Well, except for likeable characters - please, please, PLEASE make the focus characters likeable! Fates failed hard in that regard, and that was not only due to faulty writing - I really, REALLY hope that if marriage does return, they DO NOT go with the teacher-student-romance angle I fear will be included with Byleth being at least a semi-avatar. Seriously, that shit makes my skin crawl to insanely high levels. Though this one is a personal issue more than anything. Unresolved PTSD from my school days, if you will.

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2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

In Shadow Dragon/FE1 this is said:

Marth:
“Is Imhullu so powerful a magic, then?”

Gotoh:
“Yes. The mage who wields it cannot be killed; cannot be so much as scratched. I was the magic’s guardian once. Knowing its forbidden power could work terrible evils, so I kept it close. But Gharnef, one of my two pupils- Miloah being the other- took the forbidden tome and vanished. 

However, in Mystery Book 2/New Mystery, this is said:

Wendell:
Elrean, listen to me... Gharnef, along with Pontifex Miloah, were Lord Gotoh's best pupils. But Lord Gotoh saw Gharnef's weakness, and so he left Khadein and the Aura tome to Pontifex Miloah. Gharnef, overcome by jealousy, stole the Darksphere from Lord Gotoh, and created the Imhullu tome. As a result... His heart was trapped within the Darksphere for all eternity. Wrath and envy led him to ruin. Do you understand now, Elrean...?

I'm inclined to take Mystery's version as the actual account of things, and by stealing the Darksphere, Gharnef did create Imhullu. The Darksphere didn't exist in FE1 (well it did in the unused data alongside a Timesphere, but not in the game's lore), so I consider Mystery to have done a perfectly fine retcon. And this is what I'm basing my interpretation of Gharnef on. He had to have good points, otherwise why would Gotoh take him in as a student? But the faults it seems already existed in him, which the Darksphere amplified and not just accidentally; Nergal on the other hand we know nothing of faults before being corrupted.

Not sure where I stand on that then, but good to know. Thanks for the info.

1 hour ago, Thane said:

I personally don't expect there to be different routes. I think choosing the house to teach wll only affect the starting squad and perhaps a few lines and the role of the house leader. However, if that's not the case, and we do get other routes, then pulling a Revelation would be the biggest mistake they could make.

Agreed. The "golden ending true canon path where everyone makes up in the end" was one of the worst things about Fates' story imo

1 hour ago, Thane said:

I feel the opposite way; Echoes showed that Fates wasn't just a single horrible mistake and that bad writing on a fundamental level is probably to be expected in Three Houses as well. I'm hoping not, and based only on what we've seen so far I'd say things are looking pretty good barring perhaps the school setting, but Echoes is a major red flag.

While I wouldn't put Echoes up there with Fates, it DOES have some leftover jank from it. One sided writing, wasted potential in it's characters and ideas, and some of the game looks like the game's writing was rushed. Like Celica changing her mind on a dime in Act 5 or EVERYTHING involving that dumb mirror Nuiboober gave Berkut seriously what a pointless plot point, it's the Fire Emblem equivalent to a Big Lipped Alligator Moment.

 

I wonder if there'll be a class that exclusively uses those odd punching gauntlets though, what would you even call it?

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31 minutes ago, TheDreamReturns said:

I wonder if there'll be a class that exclusively uses those odd punching gauntlets though, what would you even call it?

Having played Etrian Odyssey V:

Spoiler

Cestus all

and being familiar with the word from elsewhere, a likely choice for a class specializing in punching would be "Pugilist".

Apparently, the word comes from the Latin "Pugil" simply meaning "boxer". But "boxer" has too modern an association with it, Rocky Balboa and all that jazz. Whereas Pugilist certainly has more antiquated and fancy vibe to it, making it suitable for a game with a medieval fantasy setting. 

 

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One more want because this was all that was on my mind when I was playing Echoes the first time. Have gratuitous amounts of voice acting. I really think the line reads of Echoes made every line come to life. Often in ways they wouldn't have through text. If you sit and read the dialogue in Echoes without hearing it, it comes off as needlessly melodramatic in the non-dramatic scenes. And a lot of the very dramatic scenes seem to have very subdued dialogue. A lot of the tone is communicated - and probably came as a result of, the voice talent's line reads. 

Plus the game just has way more voice acted lines than you can reasonably argue needed to be in the game. The supports and base conversations were voiced, the Turnwheel Flashbacks were voiced, and the death quotes are voiced. Okay, our voice acting budget is higher and our cast is smaller, these all make sense. But then you notice the characters have different selection quotes when low on health. They'll comment on another unit nearby getting a kill or on how much they like a food item. Their level up quotes are voice acted. Everybody is just so deliciously wordy that they have a whole freaking speech to give on their first turn of the final map. I would like to see this over-the-line level of detail again.

4 hours ago, Thane said:

However, if that's not the case, and we do get other routes, then pulling a Revelation would be the biggest mistake they could make.

I think the only mistake is somebody suggesting True Ending DLC without talking price points. How much do ya think we could get for that? Twenty dollars? Thirty dollars?

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18 hours ago, Roland said:

So, with Three Houses bring about a month away, what do you want the most of the upcoming Fire Emblem title?

decent story and gameplay aside, i'd like to see a well balanced online PvP mode, just for a change.

we could even make tournaments here for fun, if that happens.

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5 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

I didn't actually consider Gharnef himself, but his brainwashing of Tiki in Shadow Dragon and the four sacrificial maidens in Book 2. 

The Galeforce craze was palpable for Awakening. People went out of their way to get it on every unit that could naturally get it, as well as micromanage their pairings so it's on their favorite units. I didn't even recall it being in Fates. And with Awakening's flood of Endgame/post game chapters and paralogues, people going for a completionist playthrough before or after the end incidentally got a lot of grinding in regardless of whether it's warranted. You don't have to tell me Galeforce is not necessary to beat the game...you don't even need to tell me you can beat the game with just Chrom and Robin paired up, that was how I got through Lunatic once grinding was possible. I'm just saying if a skill in Three Houses has a similar bandwagon, people will go out of their way for it, and in the process destroy the remaining challenge of the game with all the stats they earn. That's what would suck.

Oh... That. Right.

Yeah, that  I remember Galeforce being all the rage back in the early days of Awakening. Regarding Fates, Galeforce won't work if the user uses attack stance or guard stance, in addition to the item needed to access it requiring buying all three routes to get, and DLC if you wanted more. That being said, I can see what you mean.

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I hope we get CQ tier map design, Eugenics Simulator 4, some sort of mechanic that encourages placement like Attack Stance, something to strongly discourage low-manning, and of course a good story (although that's fairly rare in Fire Emblem)

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Another personal want - no units that are obviously really bad compared to everyone else (e.g. Wendy, Arthur, Charlotte, Nyx, etc.). And no status staves - they're generally rather niche in terms of player usage.

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1 minute ago, Shadow Mir said:

Another personal want - no units that are obviously really bad compared to everyone else (e.g. Wendy, Arthur, Charlotte, Nyx, etc.). And no status staves - they're generally rather niche in terms of player usage.

But if you don't have terrible units then you can't brag about using them. I love using bad units

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58 minutes ago, ZaHiro86 said:

But if you don't have terrible units then you can't brag about using them. I love using bad units

I mean, none of those units are unusably bad. They're just... not ideal. They just come too late for their stats, or have lopsided stats that are high-risk, mediocre reward. It's not really boast-worthy to use them, just kind of... eh.

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2 minutes ago, Onestep said:

I mean, none of those units are unusably bad. They're just... not ideal. They just come too late for their stats, or have lopsided stats that are high-risk, mediocre reward. It's not really boast-worthy to use them, just kind of... eh.

I'd say you can boast if you can get characters like Bors working lol

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1 hour ago, ZaHiro86 said:

But if you don't have terrible units then you can't brag about using them. I love using bad units

There's bad units, and then there's the likes of Wendy that you have to go completely out of your way to even train. It's the latter I take issue with.

9 minutes ago, Onestep said:

I mean, none of those units are unusably bad. They're just... not ideal. They just come too late for their stats, or have lopsided stats that are high-risk, mediocre reward. It's not really boast-worthy to use them, just kind of... eh.

I would honestly say Wendy is unusably bad - her joining situation is just plain horrid.

7 minutes ago, ZaHiro86 said:

I'd say you can boast if you can get characters like Bors working lol

Bors is bad, but he's at least workable (admittedly, though, part of the reason he is bad is because he's an armored unit in Horse Emblem).

Edited by Shadow Mir

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