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Thoughts and Questions on FE:15 (spoilers)


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So, I finished SoV yesterday. I didn't own the game at launch but I've been playing off and on for the better part of a year/ year and a half. From what I've read before I bought the game, I went in with very high expectations. Now that I've finally beat the main story, I kinda wanna gush and gripe about the game.

 

Foremost, visually the game is stunning. It's easy to tell a lot of thought and dedication went into giving this game an appealing and cohesive artsyle. The portraits are gorgeous and detailed and the models have vastly improved since Awakening. All of these visual spectacles complement the impressive voice acting performances making SoV probably my favorite FE title aesthetically. Like, getting really nitpicky, the only thing I could think to complain about is that Alm amd Celica's touch screen portraits dont react to when other characters are speaking to them.

 

I'm not gonna talk at length about the story because there's not much to it. It's simplicity is a refreshing break from Fates' convoluted narratives though Berkut's death scene is probably the worst thing I've seen out of the FE franchise.

 

Going off that, I'm glad the developers kept the game fresh by adding characters that do not appear in Gaiden, but like, I wish there was more to them. Besides Berkut, all of the new additions are static (not gonna count Fernand's death revelation as dynamic characterization) and even Berkut's ending doesn't feel earned. And I love Conrad but his character does more for Celica then it does for himself. However, I do think the a lot of the main cast are strong. A lot of the characters (most notably the village boys) grow from their time at war and even in their supports.

 

Speaking of, I think this game comes close to finding a balance between a few, well written supports and many supports that are 'meh' in quality. I feel bad that Slique's only support is Faye, especially since it's more about Faye being dismissive than it is about Silque. I think Lukas could also benefit from another support partner as I think his 'cold, calculated' demeanor could be expanded on. I could also make a case of giving Kliff a support with maybe Luthier or Zeke to expand his horizons. 

 

This leads to the characters' endings. I'm gonna be brief and just say I like Kliff's and Delthea's along with Tatiana and Zeke's. I dislike Sonya's and believe that Leon's, Mathilda's, Faye's and the Whitewings' were just bad. I'll elaborate if anyone asks.

 

Now, onto the gameplay. The maps look pretty but the design itself seems rather uninspired besides being based off the originals in Gaiden. And I know I'm gonna get some shit for saying this (I haven't played 4 or 5) but this is the most Movement Emblem game I've played and it's agitating. From Alm's long, open maps to Celica's cramped, terrain infested ones, if you're not using a horse/wings/ Dread Fighter boots you're gonna have a bad time. It's hard to comprehend how a game that balanced archers so well couldn't do the same for Barons and Sages/Priestesses. And this sucks because none of those classes are bad! They're unique in the fact that they benefit the most from shields and rings but they're so incapacitated by 4 movement spaces that the strategy it takes to incorporate them into gameplay is often not worth it, especially when the 7/8/9 movment units can accomplish map goals (all 2 of em) that much faster.

 

However, these 'slower' units have an easier time in the dungeon aspect of the game. The smaller maps and limited unit pool allow normally unfavorable units to shine. I think the dungeon crawling in general is one of the better aspects of SoV and really differentiate it from other FE titles.

 

I mentioned at the beginning that it took me quite a while to beat this game. And I think this is mainly attributed to the gameplay. I often found myself bored and not invested enough to play the game consistently. I wanna partly blame this on the story, but Fates' plot was a lot messier and I just had more fun experimenting with units in FE 14. Maybe I should've played SoV on hard mode but I was initially worried the gameplay would be drastically different than what I wad used to. I also think this game is less strategy and more annoying gimmicks to inflate the difficulty. Conjure/invoke is cheap on both sides and are very rng reliant, along with the teleporting witches. I did have fun playing the game and would still recommend it, but I was pretty underwhelmed with most aspects of the gameplay.

 

Questions:

When exactly does Jedah learn Alm has the brand and why does he still focus solely on Celica after the fact if his main goal is to feed Duma a branded soul?

Do you think the new characters added or subtracted to the main story?

How are you supposed to make money in this game??? There's nowhere near enough gold to max out and create all the weapons, even for a handful of characters. It's a little ridiculous.

For those whose favorite or close to favorite FE game is SoV, what draws you to this title? I think it's an enjoyable experience but, personally, I think the replay value is pretty low.

What units were most useful to you(or were your favorite)? I heard good things about Mathilda and the Whitewings but most of my cavs fell off late game (my best cav was actually Lukas lol) and my only pegs that made it to endgame were Claire and Catria (and Cat barely got in).

If you've played or experienced Gaiden, is SoV a faithful remake? Is there more that could've been done to modernize the game without compromising Gaiden's integrity (like maybe add Anna)?

What were some other issues, nitpicky or significant, you had with this game?

Lastly, would you still recommend Gaiden to someone if they've already played SoV? Why or why not?

Sorry, if this got a little longwinded, I'm excited i finally beat this game and can finally focus on 6 and 11 before Three Houses is released.

Edited by Quiyonce
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6 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

Questions:

Do you think the new characters added or subtracted to the main story?

I'm in the middle on this one, but overall, they didn't really get to shine too much, sadly.

How are you supposed to make money in this game??? There's nowhere near enough gold to max out and create all the weapons, even for a handful of characters. It's a little ridiculous.

I don't think your expected to, mostly pick and choose for more used units, really. But, selling weapons helps a bit, if at endgame you can go in and out to get money bags, too.

For those whose favorite or close to favorite FE game is SoV, what draws you to this title? I think it's an enjoyable experience but, personally, I think the replay value is pretty low.

I liked the little things this game added, such as Alm and Celica doing a little pose during start of player phase, I thought they were nice touches.

What units were most useful to you(or were your favorite)? I heard good things about Mathilda and the Whitewings but most of my cavs fell off late game (my best cav was actually Lukas lol) and my only pegs that made it to endgame were Claire and Catria (and Cat barely got in).

The lords were useful, Catria was great for me as well, and the mercs obviously were good.

If you've played or experienced Gaiden, is SoV a faithful remake? Is there more that could've been done to modernize the game without compromising Gaiden's integrity (like maybe add Anna)?

Gameplay wise, they changed a lot, but that's a good and bad thing I think.

What were some other issues, nitpicky or significant, you had with this game?

The map design was lackluster, I didn't like the experience system, And I wanted more supports for the cast.

Lastly, would you still recommend Gaiden to someone if they've already played SoV? Why or why not?

Probably. They are different enough to warrant giving SoV a chance.

Sorry, if this got a little longwinded, I'm excited i finally beat this game and can finally focus on 6 and 11 before Three Houses is released.

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8 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

For those whose favorite or close to favorite FE game is SoV, what draws you to this title? I think it's an enjoyable experience but, personally, I think the replay value is pretty low.

The characters mostly, and the gameplay being so unique for a Fire Emblem game. The style also far exceeds the other 3ds titles.

8 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

What units were most useful to you(or were your favorite)? I heard good things about Mathilda and the Whitewings but most of my cavs fell off late game (my best cav was actually Lukas lol) and my only pegs that made it to endgame were Claire and Catria (and Cat barely got in).

I've used every character, except Mycen and Nomah, everyone can be useful (at least with a pitchfork). My favorite units usually become the most useful, meaning Claire, Mae and Delthea.

8 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

What were some other issues, nitpicky or significant, you had with this game?

Only things are bad story and bad map design, but you already said that.

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13 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

Questions:

When exactly does Jedah learn Alm has the brand and why does he still focus solely on Celica after the fact if his main goal is to feed Duma a branded soul?

Do you think the new characters added or subtracted to the main story?

How are you supposed to make money in this game??? There's nowhere near enough gold to max out and create all the weapons, even for a handful of characters. It's a little ridiculous.

For those whose favorite or close to favorite FE game is SoV, what draws you to this title? I think it's an enjoyable experience but, personally, I think the replay value is pretty low.

What units were most useful to you(or were your favorite)? I heard good things about Mathilda and the Whitewings but most of my cavs fell off late game (my best cav was actually Lukas lol) and my only pegs that made it to endgame were Claire and Catria (and Cat barely got in).

If you've played or experienced Gaiden, is SoV a faithful remake? Is there more that could've been done to modernize the game without compromising Gaiden's integrity (like maybe add Anna)?

What were some other issues, nitpicky or significant, you had with this game?

Lastly, would you still recommend Gaiden to someone if they've already played SoV? Why or why not?

Sorry, if this got a little longwinded, I'm excited i finally beat this game and can finally focus on 6 and 11 before Three Houses is released.

I believe Jedah learns Alm bears the brand during the end of Celica's act 4, or after Nuibaba's death, but I'm not sure. Its a bit unclear in the story.

I like the new characters and thought they added to the story. Berkut serves as an interesting FOIL to Alm and the two maps you fight him in (the one with 3 paladins and Rigel's border) are, from a narrative perspective, more interesting than they were before because of his presence. Fernand is a bit worse than Berkut because he comes off as irredeemably bad for most of the story, but the DLC story shows his transformation pretty well and really sells his role as a tragic character. The fact that he is a notable subordinate of Berkut also gives the latter's scenes more narrative presence than they would have had otherwise. Conrad was fairly unnecessary and acts a bit too much like Gerome for my taste, but he's pretty fun and don't think the game really loses anything by him being included. Faye serves a somewhat important niche in the story (shown through her supports with Alm), being a fundamentally static character while Alm and Celica are fairly dynamic and assertive. Rather than evolve her goals over the coarse of the story, her attachments to both Alm and Ram serve as her primary motivating factors. Lots of people hate her personality, which is understandable, but I kind of like her, though I wish her crush on Alm was a bit more downplayed. Rinea's memory prism with Berkut is cute, but I wish she was more meaningful within the story. 

Outside of DLC, farming in Thabes is pretty much the best way. Within the main story line, there are several quest you can do to earn easy silver and gold marks. Selling items like foods also can get you some easy cash.

SOV is not my favorite FE game, but I find it pretty easy to replay because most of the maps can be cleared in about 5-10 turns, bad RNG isn't as frustrating as in other games thanks to Mila's turnwheel, and experimenting with different class combinations (for Alm's party) is pretty fun in the early game. I like the combat of the game too. The high hp pool of both enemies and your units mean that neither can really one round each other that easily, which is a nice contrast compared to other games in the series.

Archer!Kliff and Mage!Faye did some pretty fine work in one of my recent playthroughs of the game. Kliff, Faye, and Delthea are my favorite units in this game, though I have soft-spots for most of the cast.

The game isn't completely faithful to gaiden gameplay-wise, but pretty much every notable gameplay change makes it a better experience as a result. Sagitae being 3-range instead of two makes it more useful than it was before, support bonuses make combat more dynamic and interesting, provisions can be pretty useful in a pinch, wider variety of weapons, forging, and weapon arts help make the game a bit more fast-paced by universally increasing all your units damage output, and trading works remarkable well with the one-item inventory every character has in this game. I'd argue that nerfs to spells like warp and physic end up making them more strategic than they were before. Only gameplay area I think the devs stumbled in were some of the new support spells they included from fates. Rescue was pretty good, but I never made much use of the other spells, like entrap and Freeze since they cost so much HP and could still miss.

Biggest problem with this game is the wack movement most of the final tier classes have. Its crazy how much movement classes like Bow Knight, Dreadfighter, and Gold Knights have, yet Priestesses, Mages, and Barons are stuck with 4 move. With priestesses and Sages, the at least have consistent recovery and high ranged dps, but Baron's flat out suck since they are  a 1-ranged class with middling dps at best and are always going to get doubled. If I would change anything, I would up the movement of the Sage and priestess classes to 5, Saint to 6, and Baron to 5-6.

The only thing I think gaiden has going for it are its unique set of maps in Act 5. Gaiden's act 5 maps set up pretty creative scenarios that made them interesting to play, but the same is not the case with echoes. 

Edited by FoxyGrandpa
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12 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

if at endgame you can go in and out to get money bags, too

Thabes endgame or Duma Temple endgame? I dont remember getting much money in the temple. Might've just been unlucky RNG.

12 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

The map design was lackluster, I didn't like the experience system, And I wanted more supports for the cast.

Hmm, I forgot how different the exp game was. It's like the game wanted you to exploit the DF loop and pitchforks.

10 hours ago, whase said:

I've used every character, except Mycen and Nomah, everyone can be useful (at least with a pitchfork). My favorite units usually become the most useful, meaning Claire, Mae and Delthea.

I did the final chapter twice just to hear all the units' last map dialogue and, funny enough, Mycen (with no training) outshone all of my cavaliers save Lukas. I feel like most of my units got rng screwed cause most of them fell off. Delthea, Saber and Lukas were always consistent for me though.

6 hours ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

I believe Jedah learns Alm bears the brand during the end of Celica's act 4, or after Nuibaba's death, but I'm not sure. Its a bit unclear in the story.

Okay, that is a little late. I still dont understand why Jedah wouldn't also try to sacrifice Alm or at least keep him captive if something goes wrong with Celica.

6 hours ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

I like the new characters and thought they added to the story. Berkut serves as an interesting FOIL to Alm and the two maps you fight him in (the one with 3 paladins and Rigel's border) are, from a narrative perspective, more interesting than they were before because of his presence. Fernand is a bit worse than Berkut because he comes off as irredeemably bad for most of the story, but the DLC story shows his transformation pretty well and really sells his role as a tragic character. The fact that he is a notable subordinate of Berkut also gives the latter's scenes more narrative presence than they would have had otherwise. Conrad was fairly unnecessary and acts a bit too much like Gerome for my taste, but he's pretty fun and don't think the game really loses anything by him being included. Faye serves a somewhat important niche in the story (shown through her supports with Alm), being a fundamentally static character while Alm and Celica are fairly dynamic and assertive. Rather than evolve her goals over the coarse of the story, her attachments to both Alm and Ram serve as her primary motivating factors. Lots of people hate her personality, which is understandable, but I kind of like her, though I wish her crush on Alm was a bit more downplayed. Rinea's memory prism with Berkut is cute, but I wish she was more meaningful within the story

Ah, maybe I should check out the DLC cause I think Fernand's arc did need some polish.

I get what you're saying for Faye but my main thing is that her goals (Alm and Ram Village) are on opposite ends of the road and this should force Faye to change or grow but it doesn't. Instead, she tries to get both by moving back to Ram and occasionally abandoning her family to (I assume) visit and fawn over Alm. I do think her crush should have been downplayed a lot cause I find it strange that no one tells Faye her level of attachment to Alm is unhealthy.

Which is also kind of my problem with Rinea and Berkut. Like, she's not mad at all he sacrificed her? At least let him apologize before he's forgiven and whisked away to happy ever after. As its written now, Rinea's more of a trope than a character. I did really appreciate Berkut up til the ending though.

Conrad is like Gerome? Awakening Gerome? I think Conrad's a little more playful and childlike but I agree, he doesn't hurt anything. He's just kinda there.

6 hours ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

Archer!Kliff and Mage!Faye did some pretty fine work in one of my recent playthroughs of the game. Kliff, Faye, and Delthea are my favorite units in this game, though I have soft-spots for most of the cast.

Kliff and Delthea are favs of mine too! Archer!Kliff sounds really fun actually. And though I have grievances with Faye as a character, she was still a fav unit. I've never had such a bulky healer.

 

6 hours ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

Biggest problem with this game is the wack movement most of the final tier classes have. Its crazy how much movement classes like Bow Knight, Dreadfighter, and Gold Knights have, yet Priestesses, Mages, and Barons are stuck with 4 move. With priestesses and Sages, the at least have consistent recovery and high ranged dps, but Baron's flat out suck since they are  a 1-ranged class with middling dps at best and are always going to get doubled. If I would change anything, I would up the movement of the Sage and priestess classes to 5, Saint to 6, and Baron to 5-6.

Absofuckinglutely. This game is really cruel to low movement units. I'm so glad I pitchforked Lukas to cav.

6 hours ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

Only gameplay area I think the devs stumbled in were some of the new support spells they included from fates. Rescue was pretty good, but I never made much use of the other spells, like entrap and Freeze since they cost so much HP and could still miss.

Honestly, I didn't even know player units could get Entrap or Freeze lol. I thought about using Mae to Silence Duma and his magic minions on the last chapter but she never got close enough to try. Anew and Invoke seem like the only non healing white magic that were worth using.

6 hours ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

The only thing I think gaiden has going for it are its unique set of maps in Act 5. Gaiden's act 5 maps set up pretty creative scenarios that made them interesting to play, but the same is not the case with echoes. 

Now, this is interesting. Might have to check those Gaiden maps out.

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19 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

When exactly does Jedah learn Alm has the brand and why does he still focus solely on Celica after the fact if his main goal is to feed Duma a branded soul?

I beat the game last week, so I should know this, but my memory is blanking on the first part of the question. As for the second part, it's probably because Celica's group is made of of her mage friends, some mercenaries, a few soldiers near and foreign, a lumberjack, and so on, while Alm has the honor of being one of the few FE lords to have most of their army actually be members of the military. Capturing a girl in a ragtag group like that should be easier than kidnapping a military leader, at least in theory.

19 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

Do you think the new characters added or subtracted to the main story?

Cleric Faye is a godsend, as the importance of a cleric with physic on Alm's path cannot be stressed enough. I'm neutral on her character wise. On the one hand, I do like that she pretty much answers the question "take the characters that are obsessed with the main character, remove their other characteristics and remove the fanservice and what do you have left?" I also appreciate that her behavior is not treated as healthy, and that Alm acknowledges her feelings in their final support and lets her down gently. On the other hand, there are hundreds of other personalities they could have chosen from, and they picked a shallow and controversial one.

Conrad is kinda just there in the story, but even if we don't spend a whole lot of time with him, I love what we are given about his character. A cavalier with resistance on Celica's path is a welcome addition gameplaywise.

Berkut is an example of a performance bringing up the character more than the writing, for better and worse. Ian Sinclair outdid himself, and made Berkuts sanity slippage genuine.

Rinea is just there, even though I do appreciate how she acts as a foil to Celica in some ways.

Fernand is just there, although he does have reasons for what he does, and he is very well written in the DLC.

19 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

For those whose favorite or close to favorite FE game is SoV, what draws you to this title? I think it's an enjoyable experience but, personally, I think the replay value is pretty low.

Honestly, the journey there. I was excited for the chance to be able to play an older Fire Emblem game without having to resort to emulators or hoping the gamestore had a copy of a past title. I did a ton of research on the game, nearly memorized a lets play, it was one of many steps that helped in my journey with emulators, and I probably would never have become a member of Serenes Forest if it weren't for this game. It holds a special place for me, and even if there are objectively better games in the series, SoV will remain my favorite for a long time.

As for me, I feel that Shadows of Valentia has "board game" replayability. Sure, some games will be pretty similar to each other, but it it's pretty easy to pick up, play and beat the game in a few weeks, and move on to something else.

20 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

How are you supposed to make money in this game??? There's nowhere near enough gold to max out and create all the weapons, even for a handful of characters. It's a little ridiculous.

Cut all the grass in dungeons.

On a different note, the forging in this game is my favorite in the series. Sure, it lacks the customability of the previous games, but it makes up for it by each upgrade having a noticeable impact on gameplay without ever reaching game-breaking levels.

20 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

What units were most useful to you(or were your favorite)? I heard good things about Mathilda and the Whitewings but most of my cavs fell off late game (my best cav was actually Lukas lol) and my only pegs that made it to endgame were Claire and Catria (and Cat barely got in).

Mathilda, Kamui, mercenary!Valbar, all of the mercs, the knights on Alms path (I start them out near the front lines, always keep them moving, and let the enemy come to them), and the Lords. I could say everyone, but you mentioned favorites.

20 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

If you've played or experienced Gaiden, is SoV a faithful remake? Is there more that could've been done to modernize the game without compromising Gaiden's integrity (like maybe add Anna)?

It definitely is a faithful remake, and balanced things that were broken in the original game while adding some much appreciated additions. About the only things I would say they could have modernized was the maps. I'm fine with them reusing the same ones from the original game, but it would have been nice to get some fresh ones to replace the maps that

20 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

What were some other issues, nitpicky or significant, you had with this game?

Nitpicks: Later dungeons can overstay their welcome a bit. Why does everyone sheath their weapon? All the NPC villagers look the same. Saints should have had a full dress instead of the weird thing they do in game.

In-between: Clipping is constant, noticeable, and distracting. The quest giving NPCs would have benefited the most from voice acting, yet they lack it.

Significant: I enjoy the story, but it's flaws are pretty obvious, and even more annoyingly they're the kind of flaws that either will or won't bother someone. There is some difficulty in telling which of the games issues are due to developer/writer mistakes, and which ones are because of time and money constraints.

20 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

Lastly, would you still recommend Gaiden to someone if they've already played SoV? Why or why not?

I'd recommend researching the game, but actually playing it is unnecessary. The game itself is still playable, and holds up rather well, but the snail-ish speed is what kills trying to get into it today.

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2 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

beat the game last week, so I should know this, but my memory is blanking on the first part of the question. As for the second part, it's probably because Celica's group is made of of her mage friends, some mercenaries, a few soldiers near and foreign, a lumberjack, and so on, while Alm has the honor of being one of the few FE lords to have most of their army actually be members of the military. Capturing a girl in a ragtag group like that should be easier than kidnapping a military leader, at least in theory.

That makes a lot of sense actually. The Deliverance does make a name for themselves pretty early on. But even then, when another branded just walks in your front door, ripe for sacrificing, why not use both?

2 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

Berkut is an example of a performance bringing up the character more than the writing, for better and worse. Ian Sinclair outdid himself, and made Berkuts sanity slippage genuine.

Ian made it so I could never truly hate Berkut. Every word was laced with raw emotion. Alm's VA also impressed me in the end of Act 4 and 5. These kids are pissed.

 

2 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

On a different note, the forging in this game is my favorite in the series. Sure, it lacks the customability of the previous games, but it makes up for it by each upgrade having a noticeable impact on gameplay without ever reaching game-breaking levels.

I think the accessibility of Fates' forging did spoil me a little. I do appreciate how balanced the combat is in this game, even though it can get gimmicky.

2 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

Nitpicks: Later dungeons can overstay their welcome a bit. Why does everyone sheath their weapon? All the NPC villagers look the same. Saints should have had a full dress instead of the weird thing they do in game.

In-between: Clipping is constant, noticeable, and distracting. The quest giving NPCs would have benefited the most from voice acting, yet they lack it.

Significant: I enjoy the story, but it's flaws are pretty obvious, and even more annoyingly they're the kind of flaws that either will or won't bother someone. There is some difficulty in telling which of the games issues are due to developer/writer mistakes, and which ones are because of time and money constraints.

Y'know the clipping never bothered me that much. Yeah, it was noticable but the models were just such an upgrade from Awakening, I was just glad they had feet lol

The NPCs definitely could've used voices and definitely suffer from same face syndrome. I think these issues do become more of a money thing since the devs know the game won't sell as well as a completely new title. I get it, but when this game is this polished and on the verge of excellence, it's a shame that all of the details couldn't get ironed out.

2 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

Honestly, the journey there. I was excited for the chance to be able to play an older Fire Emblem game without having to resort to emulators or hoping the gamestore had a copy of a past title. I did a ton of research on the game, nearly memorized a lets play, it was one of many steps that helped in my journey with emulators, and I probably would never have become a member of Serenes Forest if it weren't for this game. It holds a special place for me, and even if there are objectively better games in the series, SoV will remain my favorite for a long time.

As for me, I feel that Shadows of Valentia has "board game" replayability. Sure, some games will be pretty similar to each other, but it it's pretty easy to pick up, play and beat the game in a few weeks, and move on to something else.

I'm glad you had such a good experience! As someone who did most of the same things you did but for 9 and 10, I can't wait to be ecstatic the day Nintendo/IS makes the Tellius games more accessible.

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I suppose another thing that bothers me a bit is that Priestess and Celica still use the same promoted sprites. I would prefer her to be a little more unique, but oh well.

10 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

In-between: Clipping is constant, noticeable, and distracting. The quest giving NPCs would have benefited the most from voice acting, yet they lack it.

 This made me laugh because I kinda thought the same thing. But it isn't just this game that has that so I can't hold it against it. Take Smash for example, that game is awful for clipping, and that's on the Switch.

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15 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

That makes a lot of sense actually. The Deliverance does make a name for themselves pretty early on. But even then, when another branded just walks in your front door, ripe for sacrificing, why not use both?

Because Celica theoretically would be enough to stop Duma's madness. Sacrificing Alm as well might be overkill, and Jedah wouldn't have another sacrifice in handy in the event that Duma goes mad again.

15 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

I think the accessibility of Fates' forging did spoil me a little. I do appreciate how balanced the combat is in this game, even though it can get gimmicky.

I am still impressed by how the game is still balanced despite of how many things they added. It's part of the reason I want a sequel to the game, so the mechanics can return with a bit more fine tuning and better maps (and also because I can see the story continuing in several interesting directions).

15 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

The NPCs definitely could've used voices and definitely suffer from same face syndrome. I think these issues do become more of a money thing since the devs know the game won't sell as well as a completely new title. I get it, but when this game is this polished and on the verge of excellence, it's a shame that all of the details couldn't get ironed out.

I do question how many of the games problems are genuine mistakes from the developers/writers, and how many are things they wanted to fix/improve/expand upon, but didn't have the time, resources, and money to do so.

16 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

Y'know the clipping never bothered me that much. Yeah, it was noticable but the models were just such an upgrade from Awakening, I was just glad they had feet lol

8 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

 This made me laugh because I kinda thought the same thing. But it isn't just this game that has that so I can't hold it against it. Take Smash for example, that game is awful for clipping, and that's on the Switch.

It's a reason I put it in an "in-between" category. It's not a large enough issue that I'd knock points off the game for it, but it is constant and blatant enough that I can't call it a nitpick. At least with games like Smash and Awakening, I can understand and forgive why the clipping is there and laugh at the oddity, but with Echoes it is impossible to ignore, and I question how it managed to be so widespread since it seems like something that quality control people would notice.

***

Also, in case you're interested, the game has an artbook called the Valentia Accordion, and it features things like timelines and character bios that aren't found in the game itself. It might answer a few of your questions:

 

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2 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

It's a reason I put it in an "in-between" category. It's not a large enough issue that I'd knock points off the game for it, but it is constant and blatant enough that I can't call it a nitpick. At least with games like Smash and Awakening, I can understand and forgive why the clipping is there and laugh at the oddity, but with Echoes it is impossible to ignore, and I question how it managed to be so widespread since it seems like something that quality control people would notice.

 

Okay, fair enough. I didn't mean for that to come off as rude, if it did I apologise. It doesnt seem like they cared too much about the sprites to fix it.

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1 minute ago, lightcosmo said:

Okay, fair enough. I didn't mean for that to come off as rude, if it did I apologise. It doesnt seem like they cared too much about the sprites to fix it.

No problem. I didn't find it to be rude at all. As for the sprites, they probably kept them simplistic compared to the other 3DS games as a reference to Gaidens sprites. They reference a lot of the games original attacks as well through the combat animations.

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3 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

Because Celica theoretically would be enough to stop Duma's madness. Sacrificing Alm as well might be overkill, and Jedah wouldn't have another sacrifice in handy in the event that Duma goes mad again.

Yeah, but isn't Jedah the one who teleported Mila's head and witch!Celica to the vault? Why send them to a room only Alm can acess without a plan to entrap him? Why risk Celica killing the only other person who could sate Duma's insanity if Celica alone cannot? I see what you're saying it just doesn't make sense to me for Jedah to let Alm run around the tower willy nilly if Alm's the only other branded.

 

3 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

Also, in case you're interested, the game has an artbook called the Valentia Accordion, and it features things like timelines and character bios that aren't found in the game itself. It might answer a few of your questions:

Most definitelty gonna check that out. Thanks!!!

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On 5/20/2019 at 1:30 AM, Quiyonce said:

How are you supposed to make money in this game??? There's nowhere near enough gold to max out and create all the weapons, even for a handful of characters. It's a little ridiculous.

Cut grass. Enemy spawns may also have silver purses.

On 5/20/2019 at 1:30 AM, Quiyonce said:

Now, onto the gameplay. The maps look pretty but the design itself seems rather uninspired besides being based off the originals in Gaiden. And I know I'm gonna get some shit for saying this (I haven't played 4 or 5) but this is the most Movement Emblem game I've played and it's agitating. From Alm's long, open maps to Celica's cramped, terrain infested ones, if you're not using a horse/wings/ Dread Fighter boots you're gonna have a bad time. It's hard to comprehend how a game that balanced archers so well couldn't do the same for Barons and Sages/Priestesses. And this sucks because none of those classes are bad! They're unique in the fact that they benefit the most from shields and rings but they're so incapacitated by 4 movement spaces that the strategy it takes to incorporate them into gameplay is often not worth it, especially when the 7/8/9 movment units can accomplish map goals (all 2 of em) that much faster.

Bold: How many FE games have you played?

On 5/20/2019 at 8:45 PM, Quiyonce said:

Absofuckinglutely. This game is really cruel to low movement units. I'm so glad I pitchforked Lukas to cav.

If you think this game's cruel to low movement units, try Binding Blade. Or Genealogy of the Holy War. I could at least get some use out of my lower movement units here; both of the games I mentioned take the advantage mounted units already have and magnify it to a massive extreme, all because the maps are ginormous compared to most other FE games. It's especially noticeable in the latter.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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49 minutes ago, Quiyonce said:

Yeah, but isn't Jedah the one who teleported Mila's head and witch!Celica to the vault? Why send them to a room only Alm can acess without a plan to entrap him? Why risk Celica killing the only other person who could sate Duma's insanity if Celica alone cannot? I see what you're saying it just doesn't make sense to me for Jedah to let Alm run around the tower willy nilly if Alm's the only other branded.

I'd argue that it's actually not a bad idea to place Mila (and thus the Falchion) along with Celica in a place that can only be accessed by one person. That way, if Alm dies at any moment, then Jedah doesn't have to worry about the one person that could wield the fabled sword and slay Duma. It helps that the royal vault is guarded by a series of monsters, so if Alm doesn't die getting through that, then he would be exhausted from all the fighting (which does happen gameplaywise). The fight between Alm and Celica would be an emotional one, and neither side could emerge the "victor", and the Falchion would still be sealed if Alm "won". The only way that Jedah could lose in this scenario is if Mila interviewed, which she did.

Speaking of which, Duma/Jedah only needed Celica's soul. What they did with the body afterwards seemed to be on no concern to them, so leaving it to rot alone was good enough for Jedah.

49 minutes ago, Quiyonce said:

Most definitelty gonna check that out. Thanks!!!

You're welcome!

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10 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: How many FE games have you played?

6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 (vicariously), 11 (started), 13, 14 and 15

 

10 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

If you think this game's cruel to low movement units, try Binding Blade. Or Genealogy of the Holy War. I could at least get some use out of my lower movement units here; both of the games I mentioned take the advantage mounted units already have and magnify it to a massive extreme, all because the maps are ginormous compared to most other FE games. It's especially noticeable in the latter.

Just from what I've heard on the Jugdral games, I know they'd be worse and I know it's gonna irritate me when I eventually play them lol. Idk about 6 though. I'm in the midst of replaying and it feels so much easier to me utilize all my units. I also think more of my problem with echoes is Celica's route with all the terrain. Binding Blade is way less problematic in that regard.

12 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

I'd argue that it's actually not a bad idea to place Mila (and thus the Falchion) along with Celica in a place that can only be accessed by one person. That way, if Alm dies at any moment, then Jedah doesn't have to worry about the one person that could wield the fabled sword and slay Duma.

Not if that one person is right in front of your face and you're letting him run rampant. I think I'd be more understanding of Jedah's plan if he ordered one of his daughters to stay back and kill/capture Alm. Or teleported Mila and Falchion in Duma's lair so at least it would be better guarded. No matter how hard I try to rationalize it, Jedah's actions regarding Alm just seem irresponsible.

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2 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

Just from what I've heard on the Jugdral games, I know they'd be worse and I know it's gonna irritate me when I eventually play them lol. Idk about 6 though. I'm in the midst of replaying and it feels so much easier to me utilize all my units. I also think more of my problem with echoes is Celica's route with all the terrain. Binding Blade is way less problematic in that regard.

Out of those two, it would only be Genealogy that's bad in the map aspect; the maps are so big that it's given rise to the nickname "Horse Emblem". But I think Binding Blade, with its long, winding maps, is not much better, since again, mounted units are about the only units that can get anywhere in a timely fashion.

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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Out of those two, it would only be Genealogy that's bad in the map aspect; the maps are so big that it's given rise to the nickname "Horse Emblem". But I think Binding Blade, with its long, winding maps, is not much better, since again, mounted units are about the only units that can get anywhere in a timely fashion.

I guess my thing is I don't feel as rushed in Binding Blade. Im perfectly fine with letting the enemies come to me. In SoV I felt the need to play more agressive.

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1 hour ago, Quiyonce said:

I guess my thing is I don't feel as rushed in Binding Blade. Im perfectly fine with letting the enemies come to me. In SoV I felt the need to play more agressive.

Huh. Personally, I thought it was the other way around - SoV generally didn't force aggressive play on me for the most part, whereas for some reason, I needed to play more aggressive in Binding Blade.

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Huh. Personally, I thought it was the other way around - SoV generally didn't force aggressive play on me for the most part, whereas for some reason, I needed to play more aggressive in Binding Blade.

Binding Blade has a lot of chapters where stuff happens that you need to be at, thieves that plunder chests, bandits that raze villages, allies that spawn in enemy infested areas, etc. SoV doesn't have that, so I'll have to agree with you. Only thing I can think about for the other way around is the summoners in SoV, but I just call that free experience.

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8 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Huh. Personally, I thought it was the other way around - SoV generally didn't force aggressive play on me for the most part, whereas for some reason, I needed to play more aggressive in Binding Blade.

 

6 hours ago, whase said:

Binding Blade has a lot of chapters where stuff happens that you need to be at, thieves that plunder chests, bandits that raze villages, allies that spawn in enemy infested areas, etc. SoV doesn't have that, so I'll have to agree with you. Only thing I can think about for the other way around is the summoners in SoV, but I just call that free experience.

I think I got rng screwed in SoV but blessed in BB. My SoV units ended up very frail and it felt like I had to be more agressive so my units didn't take too many hits. I also had to work fast so my bowknights didn't steal all the exp with killer bows. I had a much more balanced playstyle in Binding Blade.

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58 minutes ago, Quiyonce said:

I think I got rng screwed in SoV but blessed in BB. My SoV units ended up very frail and it felt like I had to be more agressive so my units didn't take too many hits. I also had to work fast so my bowknights didn't steal all the exp with killer bows. I had a much more balanced playstyle in Binding Blade.

The problem is - and you seem to be ignoring this - that defensive play isn't something you can always afford to do in Binding Blade, with time limits on some maps, villages to save, etc. And I find it hard for my foot units to contribute in any meaningful fashion when you have a lot of ground to cover.

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23 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

The problem is - and you seem to be ignoring this - that defensive play isn't something you can always afford to do in Binding Blade, with time limits on some maps, villages to save, etc. And I find it hard for my foot units to contribute in any meaningful fashion when you have a lot of ground to cover.

I'm not ignoring anything, the aspects you listed just didn't significantly hinder me from using my foot units. Even if the maps in BB are larger, there's more to do in them, so I can send my high movement units to save villages, unlock chests, etc. and still lure the enemies to the main bulk of my army. In SoV my units have nothing to do but engage the enemy (which were usually grouped together in one area) leaving my 4/5 movement units with nothing else to do as they're stuck behind my cavs/pegs/dread fighters.

The turn count requirement for the Gaiden maps in BB were around 20-30. There was one (maybe a couple more at most) map in SoV where I had over 30 turns and iirc that was for boss abusing. Most maps fell between 5 and 15 turns for me.

It's not that I don't see what you're saying, I just had a different experience/playstyle that worked for me.

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7 hours ago, Quiyonce said:

I'm not ignoring anything, the aspects you listed just didn't significantly hinder me from using my foot units. Even if the maps in BB are larger, there's more to do in them, so I can send my high movement units to save villages, unlock chests, etc. and still lure the enemies to the main bulk of my army. In SoV my units have nothing to do but engage the enemy (which were usually grouped together in one area) leaving my 4/5 movement units with nothing else to do as they're stuck behind my cavs/pegs/dread fighters.

The turn count requirement for the Gaiden maps in BB were around 20-30. There was one (maybe a couple more at most) map in SoV where I had over 30 turns and iirc that was for boss abusing. Most maps fell between 5 and 15 turns for me.

It's not that I don't see what you're saying, I just had a different experience/playstyle that worked for me.

Well, in any instance, as far as BB is concerned, I find it hard to justify using an archer on the team when for their part, there's nothing they can do that a nomad cannot, and that's not even getting into how bad knights have it (short of Genealogy of the Holy War, this is the game where they have it the worst by far). I'd also run into instances where the mounts need to slow down for the foot units to do much of anything... which almost never ends up being worth it in the end because the mounted units could do as good or better.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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8 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Well, in any instance, as far as BB is concerned, I find it hard to justify using an archer on the team when for their part, there's nothing they can do that a nomad cannot, and that's not even getting into how bad knights have it (short of Genealogy of the Holy War, this is the game where they have it the worst by far). I'd also run into instances where the mounts need to slow down for the foot units to do much of anything... which almost never ends up being worth it in the end because the mounted units could do as good or better.

Oh, I definitely did not use any knights past early-mid game in BB. I actually think they have more potential in SoV which is why their lack or movement bothers me more in that game; because they could be more useful. And the only non-mounted archer that didn't get benched was Klein, and that's majorily out of favoritism so I definitely get what you're saying.

Personally, if I'm sending my cavs/fliers to do something extra like save a village or ferry a unit, I'd rather them not have to fight a lot of enemies as well so I just lure them to the foot units until I'm done with the extra stuff. I think the game has enough mounted units to ferry around freely so I usually just rescued instead of having my foot units play continuous catch up.

 

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