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Sonya's ending states that she tried to find a cure for witches and goes on to imply Sonya becomes a witch herself.

But isn't Falchion the cure for witches?

Also, witches in this game had their soul sacrificed to Duma. Would killing Duma not kill all the witches? And how could Sonya even become a witch if there was no Duma to sacrifice her soul to?

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It wasn't Falchion. If you refer to what happened to Celica, it was Mila herself who restored her.

I would think so. Isn't that what happens to Sonya's sisters if they're still alive when you defeat Duma. I've yet to see it personally; but I think that's what happens if I remember the script correctly.

Duma isn't the only one you can offer your soul to. Nuibaba is stated to have sold hers to Medusa. Although I think her becoming a witch was a separate thing. Either way, since her soul was bound to Medusa, it more or less enabled her to be a witch without loosing herself in the process. Perhaps Sonya did something similar, though perhaps to some more benign entity. Hopefully.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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Well, one could make a case to what exactly restored Celica's self, her death, or Mila, but eh...

The "witch case" is weird, on one hand, it seems to be a thing only Duma can do, but then there's Nuibaba who worship Mesuda, that come from 'I dunno', and unlike Duma's witches, she is stil fully herself. There's also the funny bit that when you kill a normal witch, they don't fall of, they just disapear if I remember correctly.

Also, GG Jedah, Celica's soul totally restored Duma's self... Which makes me wonder if Witches' souls are truly lost, or if the process just restrain it. Sonya's sisters still have some personality after all. And Celica beg Alm to kill her no ? So she to have some personality left.
If so, sheesh , way to  waste a good soul Jeje ! :p

So yeah, I dunno if Duma's death killed the witches or not, o ifr Sonya has truly become a witch. For all we know, she either found a entity like Nuibaba, or she just lived as a hermit and gained a title of 'witch'. Maybe it's part of that Fel Magic. Mystery for the ages.

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Lukas states in Act 4, before you fight Marla/Hestia (I can't remember which one, lol) that only death can release a soul from Duma's control. So killing them releases them, just in time for them to lament their life choices before they die (Hestia actually does this if she dies in the final battle). The only reason Celica was resurrected was because Mila intervened. So the search for an actual cure for witches that doesn't kill them or require a deity that has now passed on for it to work is still a valid one.

As for the second bit, the lore is kind of inconsistent. It seems like Duma actually consumes the souls he's offered, as Jedah specifically uses the word feast at one point, and how else would a soul be able to fix Duma's madness? And yet, that doesn't explain how a soul can be released upon the death of its original owner, like what happens with Rinea or Celica's resurrection or even Hestia. I guess its possible that after Duma died, all the souls he had consumed were released and are just floating around the void somewhere, so any witches that survived the final battle could theoretically have their souls restored, but its unclear with the lore we have currently (or, at least, the lore I'm aware of).

As others have said, other deities, like Medusa, exist to offer souls up to. Even then, the fact that Nuibaba and Gharn still serve Duma could point to the fact that deities like Medusa are Apostles of Duma, like the dragon you fight in Fear Mountain. It'd just be an indirect way of selling your soul to Duma, and theoretically more negotiable (so Nuibaba could have kept her free will in exchange for something else). Some people suggest that Sonya didn't turn into a witch, and just took up residence in Nuibaba's abode because it made a convenient spot to practice magic. The rumors spread from there and grew wilder by the retelling.

Tl;dr, because I just realised how long I rambled on for: Sonya either sold her soul up to an agent of Duma so she could sacrifice something that wasn't her will in exchange for a cure, or she never became a witch at all

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9 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

it was Mila herself who restored her

 

5 hours ago, Anathaco said:

The only reason Celica was resurrected was because Mila intervened.

 

5 hours ago, Anathaco said:

So the search for an actual cure for witches that doesn't kill them or require a deity that has now passed on for it to work is still a valid one.

But how did Mila still have her powers? I can get behind her talking because Duma talks after death too but Mila's powers have been sealed for a while now. That and the line "Trust in Falchion" led me to the assumption that Falchion is what revived Celica.

 

6 hours ago, B.Leu said:

There's also the funny bit that when you kill a normal witch, they don't fall of, they just disapear if I remember correctly.

Also, GG Jedah, Celica's soul totally restored Duma's self... Which makes me wonder if Witches' souls are truly lost, or if the process just restrain it. Sonya's sisters still have some personality after all. And Celica beg Alm to kill her no ? So she to have some personality left.
If so, sheesh , way to  waste a good soul Jeje ! :p

It is interesting that even after having sold their souls, some witches still seem to have some autonomy and sense of self. Which makes them blipping out of existence after their body falls even more interesting (or sad).

 

6 hours ago, B.Leu said:

For all we know, she either found a entity like Nuibaba, or she just lived as a hermit and gained a title of 'witch'.

 

5 hours ago, Anathaco said:

Some people suggest that Sonya didn't turn into a witch, and just took up residence in Nuibaba's abode because it made a convenient spot to practice magic. The rumors spread from there and grew wilder by the retelling.

Tl;dr, because I just realised how long I rambled on for: Sonya either sold her soul up to an agent of Duma so she could sacrifice something that wasn't her will in exchange for a cure, or she never became a witch at all

I'm torn. On the one hand, I don't want to get into another Nuibaba and Medusa situation cause that just leads to more questions than answers but that may be the only way to find a cure if it really was Mila and not the Falchion that helped Celica.

I think Sonya becoming a hermit that continues to practice magic to find a cure makes the most sense to me. I just wish there was more lore to explore 

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6 minutes ago, Quiyonce said:

But how did Mila still have her powers? I can get behind her talking because Duma talks after death too but Mila's powers have been sealed for a while now. That and the line "Trust in Falchion" led me to the assumption that Falchion is what revived Celica.

She just got sealed. So she still had her powers, just unable to interact with the outside world. Until that moment. As for Falchion, it's because Mila got sealed within, so it likely referred to her when it was said that.

15 minutes ago, Quiyonce said:

I'm torn. On the one hand, I don't want to get into another Nuibaba and Medusa situation cause that just leads to more questions than answers but that may be the only way to find a cure if it really was Mila and not the Falchion that helped Celica.

I think Sonya becoming a hermit that continues to practice magic to find a cure makes the most sense to me. I just wish there was more lore to explore 

I'd say, I'd wish we could've got some more info about that. Between it and the Overclasses DLC, it gives us a small glimpse about what else is out there, other than Duma and Mila.

Hmm, as an aside, while I like the ambiguity of her ending, I'd say it would be interesting if the rumors were indeed true.

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4 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

She just got sealed. So she still had her powers, just unable to interact with the outside world. Until that moment. As for Falchion, it's because Mila got sealed within, so it likely referred to her when it was said that.

Just got sealed? I thought Rudolf sealed her before the events of the game. 

The relationship between Falchion and the gods confuses me. Why did it kill Duma but only seal Mila? If Mila was already sealed, how did she seal the Falchion so no one could use it? If Mila was sealed inside the Falchion then what unsealed her? Why did she die so quickly after being unsealed? I think there's too many inconsistencies /not enough in-game explanation for me to fully believe that Mila was solely responsible for Celic's resurrection.

4 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'd say, I'd wish we could've got some more info about that. Between it and the Overclasses DLC, it gives us a small glimpse about what else is out there, other than Duma and Mila.

Hmm, as an aside, while I like the ambiguity of her ending, I'd say it would be interesting if the rumors were indeed true.

I really need to check out all of the DLC at some point.

I'd say becoming the last witch so no one else has to forcibly suffer from it is quite the fine ending indeed.

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4 minutes ago, Quiyonce said:

Just got sealed? I thought Rudolf sealed her before the events of the game. 

The relationship between Falchion and the gods confuses me. Why did it kill Duma but only seal Mila? If Mila was already sealed, how did she seal the Falchion so no one could use it? If Mila was sealed inside the Falchion then what unsealed her? Why did she die so quickly after being unsealed? I think there's too many inconsistencies /not enough in-game explanation for me to fully believe that Mila was solely responsible for Celic's resurrection.

I really need to check out all of the DLC at some point.

I'd say becoming the last witch so no one else has to forcibly suffer from it is quite the fine ending indeed.

I meant "just got" as in "the only thing that happened", not that it was a recent thing.

Because that's what Rudolf wanted. Unlike Alm who fought Duma with the intention to kill him, or at least incapacitate/stop him. Also, I can't speak how it was in Gaiden; but SoV implies or even states Mila herself had a hand in her own sealing. As she already wasn't thinking clearly due to her own degeneration, she thought best that, if she was sealed inside the sword, she could seal it back in turn so her brother could be out of harm's way.

As for the act itself of sealing Falchion, I would think that she was able to do so since she was sealed inside it. Like locking a room from the inside, basically.

Just because she sealed herself doesn't mean it was permanent or she couldn't undo it. Back to the "locked from the inside" comparison, since it seems she had a hand in her own sealing, she likely made sure the seal could still be broken from the inside. Perhaps she would "peek" outside from time to time. Either way she was aware of Alm and Witch!Celica's battle, so she decided to finally come out, thus unsealing Falchion.

Since there's no apparent way to stop the degeneration once it starts... well, this would just be my own conjecture; but perhaps Duma and Mila decided to just... suicide. Perhaps they would think it better than to simply be sealed up, like Mila was.

Personally, I believe Mila would be able to restore Celica back to normal as she is part of the bloodline Mila made a blood-bind to. At least, I would think that had a part in why Mila was able to do so, if it wasn't something she could do just about anyone.

Well, not fully sure if it would be a fine thing. In any case, I would think that any attempts to find a cure would need her to eventually try them out on an actual witch. The way I could see it, if she did became a witch, it would be with the intention to only use herself as a test subject; and not drag someone else into it, specially if she is unable to turn them back to normal in the end.

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On 5/21/2019 at 4:54 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

Because that's what Rudolf wanted.

 

On 5/21/2019 at 4:54 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

but SoV implies or even states Mila herself had a hand in her own sealing

These kinda contradict each other unless Rudolf and Mila conspired together to seal her, in which case I definitely missed that.

On 5/21/2019 at 4:54 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

Back to the "locked from the inside" comparison, since it seems she had a hand in her own sealing, she likely made sure the seal could still be broken from the inside. Perhaps she would "peek" outside from time to time. Either way she was aware of Alm and Witch!Celica's battle, so she decided to finally come out, thus unsealing Falchion.

From what I'm gathering, I think it's more that Mila was sealed but still conscious of the world around her. I think Mila still needed someone to pull the sword out, she just had the power to choose who, if anyone, would unseal her and when because she (somehow) sealed Falchion. Either way, I think this is a point where the writing could've been stronger because the rules between Falchion and Mila/Duma are never clearly defined.

On 5/21/2019 at 4:54 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

Since there's no apparent way to stop the degeneration once it starts... well, this would just be my own conjecture; but perhaps Duma and Mila decided to just... suicide. Perhaps they would think it better than to simply be sealed up, like Mila was

Can dragons even commit suicide? I think the Falchion is more to blame, I'm just not sure why unsealing Mila also lead to her death.

On 5/21/2019 at 4:54 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, not fully sure if it would be a fine thing.

Not fine as in good, fine as in fitting for her character/the narrative the story set for her.

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12 minutes ago, Quiyonce said:

 

These kinda contradict each other unless Rudolf and Mila conspired together to seal her, in which case I definitely missed that.

From what I'm gathering, I think it's more that Mila was sealed but still conscious of the world around her. I think Mila still needed someone to pull the sword out, she just had the power to choose who, if anyone, would unseal her and when because she (somehow) sealed Falchion. Either way, I think this is a point where the writing could've been stronger because the rules between Falchion and Mila/Duma are never clearly defined.

Can dragons even commit suicide? I think the Falchion is more to blame, I'm just not sure why unsealing Mila also lead to her death.

Not fine as in good, fine as in fitting for her character/the narrative the story set for her.

They didn't conspired. More in that Mila thought "I could use this to my advantage" kind of thing.

That could be an option as well. Hmm, I would say they're defined well, though maybe that's just me.

Well, they're living beings. I would think they can like any other. Well, the Falchion was created for that purpose, so it's plausible either way.

Oh, I see. I agree, then.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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18 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, they're living beings. I would think they can like any other. Well, the Falchion was created for that purpose, so it's plausible either way.

Yeah, that's true but they don't necessarily have full control over their existence becuase of the inherent degeneration. I guess I could also be projecting Judeo-Christian hierarchy on the dragons, with Naga as 'god' and the lesser dragons as 'angels,' in which only Naga (and by extension, Falchion) has the ability to extinguish their existence.

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3 minutes ago, Quiyonce said:

Yeah, that's true but they don't necessarily have full control over their existence becuase of the inherent degeneration. I guess I could also be projecting Judeo-Christian hierarchy on the dragons, with Naga as 'god' and the lesser dragons as 'angels,' in which only Naga (and by extension, Falchion) has the ability to extinguish their existence.

Their degeneration wasn't total. Both Duma and Mila still weren't fully gone, mind-wise. So it would still be in their ability to choose that.

I would think that doesn't really apply. As Naga herself says, she is no deity or anything like that.

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3 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

As Naga herself says, she is no deity or anything like that.

I definitely think I'm projecting a bit but the only confirmed way we have of killing a dragon is through Naga. She can say what she wants but her power speaks for itself.

I'm not totally against the suicide it's more of a question if even Mila and Duma are even capable of killing each other. And if they can't would they even be strong enough to take their own lives?

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4 minutes ago, Quiyonce said:

I definitely think I'm projecting a bit but the only confirmed way we have of killing a dragon is through Naga. She can say what she wants but her power speaks for itself.

I'm not totally against the suicide it's more of a question if even Mila and Duma are even capable of killing each other. And if they can't would they even be strong enough to take their own lives?

Do remember the Divine vs Earth dragon war killed almost all of the divine dragons. They practically came close to being extinct right there and then. No way Naga would be behind that.

Well, since they're dragons with all kinds of powers... it doesn't have to be dying by inflicting themselves actual physical harm. It could be a more... magic/spiritual/whathaveyou method.

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