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Nintendo confirmed Information about the church *SPOILERS*

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8 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

There's the Church of Edda, established by Crusader Blagi. Which is a combination of the old religion before Loptyr took over, and Maira's teachings. Amusingly, it would make it heretical to the main Loptyr's church. Maira was definitely practicing and teaching a heresy of it, at least. Info here.

Oooh, this is cool!  Depressing, but cool.  And definitely heretical to the Loptyr sect.  Interesting how Loptyr swung back and forth in Jugdral's history.

7 hours ago, Etheus said:

But here's the thing. There is always a benign religion in operation, even if it is never portrayed directly. Or are you going to tell me with a straight face that Libra is a friar of nothing? He's not representing the Grimleal for damn sure.

 

The fact is that when something is benign, we take it for granted. That's how the real world works. Things stand out as noteworthy when they are broken, not when they are a part of everyday life.

Thanks, for proving my point, which was. . .

10 hours ago, eclipse said:

The rule of FE seems to be "if religion is a plot point, we're going to have to kick their asses eventually".  This is both unsurprising and disappointing.

 

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You can feel how you want. Personally, I want the game to end with me punching in the face of a god with my gauntlets while wyverns and pegasi fight in the background to a ridiculously awesome operatic metal rendition of the Fire Emblem theme in latin.

Edited by Etheus

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Never saw it coming. Nope. Insert fail sound there, or the chipmunk, I like the chipmunk. :p

But wait, maybe the true 'twist' is only to hide the 'real' twist !!!!1!!! Oooooohoooo ! (guess what fanbase I'm mocking.)
No but seriously, we all saw that coming from thousands of miles, let's see what those guys will do with it. Hope they won't fail though. If there's a freaking dragon behind it all...

If it's like Echoes, I'll be happy, even though they did not 'directly' tackled the subject, but they did perfectly okay. I wonder how they'll do it.

13 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

There's the Church of Edda, established by Crusader Blagi. Which is a combination of the old religion before Loptyr took over, and Maira's teachings. Amusingly, it would make it heretical to the main Loptyr's church. Maira was definitely practicing and teaching a heresy of it, at least. Info here.

Poor Maira and Blagi, good intentions, but only for it all to be forgotten and having the point of some of their actions missed.

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Welp, the story of Three Houses officially has all the nuance of a C-list anime. Hopefully there's gonna be enough good in other departments to make the game worth the buy, but geez, it's kinda scary how far the series writing has dived into shameless cliches.

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17 hours ago, Mapina said:

The difference here is that Grimleal, Duma and Loptyr are not depicted as main religions to the viewpoint charaters. They are something outsiders(enemies) practise in other other places. 

 

Seiros Church being antagonistic is comparable to Mila or Naga cults being antagonistic. In Three Houses, the player character begins by working directly FOR the church. Can you say anything comparable about Grimleal or Duma cults?

I know I'm going off topic here, but look at Bravely Default and Bravely Second. One of the main characters in both of those happens to be associated with the Crystal Orthodoxy... and it's not revealed until a ways into those that the Orthodoxy was bad (and when I say bad, I do mean REALLY bad) - and in the former, that the guy who rose up against them was justified in what he did. Even in the latter, most of the antagonistic faction threw in their lot with the (supposed) Big Bad because of the bullshit the Orthodoxy did long ago. Now, all this is backstory stuff, of course, but still...

21 hours ago, Timlugia said:

Actually, several church or state religion in previous FE games are faction of good, such as recurring church of Naga. Besides, in Zelda series also from Nintendo, church (Hylia/Three Goddess) is always the good faction.

I don't remember religion being a big deal in many, if any, Zelda games.

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52 minutes ago, PeaceRibbon said:

Welp, the story of Three Houses officially has all the nuance of a C-list anime. Hopefully there's gonna be enough good in other departments to make the game worth the buy, but geez, it's kinda scary how far the series writing has dived into shameless cliches.

Fire Emblem Fans: The story in Fates is a hot mess of anime cliches!

Three Houses: Hold my beer.

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1 hour ago, TheGoodHoms said:

Fire Emblem Fans: The story in Fates is a hot mess of anime cliches!

Three Houses: Hold my beer.

Fates’s problems isn’t the fact it has anime cliches(which is a criticism I absolutely despise btw). The problem more so is that’s it’s a confused mess. Like it has no idea what it wants to be or what kind of story it wants to tell.

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I mean, what I'd like is for actual schisms in the Church much like Holy War, with different factions of belief. What we'll get is mostly evil, with a few redeemable figures, some of whom will join the party and others of whom will die tragically.

But this really shouldn't surprise anyone. The very first trailer had Edelgard railing against the Crests, the very fundamental belief of the Church. There was no way they weren't going to be cast in an antagonistic role.

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I could very easily see some of the Church worshipping the Goddess herself, while others are obsessing over the crests, which are the closest thing to the Goddess, and abuse their position to investigate them. But all the factions of the Church are lumped together due to their shared worship of Seiros.

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Even if everyone called it, it doesn't mean the story is going to suck, C-list anime nuances, cliches, etc. It really depends on its execution. Just sayin'. 

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5 hours ago, PeaceRibbon said:

Welp, the story of Three Houses officially has all the nuance of a C-list anime. Hopefully there's gonna be enough good in other departments to make the game worth the buy, but geez, it's kinda scary how far the series writing has dived into shameless cliches.

Talk about jumping the gun. Church is confirmed to be evil, all of sudden Three House's writing is doomed apparently.

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1 hour ago, Pikappa93 said:

Even if everyone called it, it doesn't mean the story is going to suck, C-list anime nuances, cliches, etc. It really depends on its execution. Just sayin'. 

Thanks, glad we have some voice of reason.

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6 hours ago, PeaceRibbon said:

Welp, the story of Three Houses officially has all the nuance of a C-list anime. Hopefully there's gonna be enough good in other departments to make the game worth the buy, but geez, it's kinda scary how far the series writing has dived into shameless cliches.

Premature much? Sure, everyone might have called the church being evil, but that most definitely doesn't automatically doom the story to sucking.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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Post-Fates despair at it again I guess.

Yeah I'm not ready to give up on Fire Emblem's storytelling just yet.

10 hours ago, Etheus said:

Personally, I want the game to end with me punching in the face of a god with my gauntlets while wyverns and pegasi fight in the background to a ridiculously awesome operatic metal rendition of the Fire Emblem theme in latin.

It ain't a JRPG unless you beat the stuffing out of God at the end. :B):

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Ultimately, cliches become cliches because they are or were at some point considered effective. And really, it isn't what your plot is, but how well you utilize it, that matters. The most original story can fail with poor execution and the most overused ideas can work with strong execution.

Edited by Etheus

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7 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I don't remember religion being a big deal in many, if any, Zelda games.

Well, original Zelda game has Bible as an item; A Link to the Past actually features real Christian church, priest and Link drawing sign of Cross to open a dungeon. If I remember right, one of the official artwork even depicts Link praying in front of a cross.

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In the recent games, BotW has Shinto elements as it feature Zelda has high priestess of Hylia, even using the term "Priestess Princess" (which in Japan refers to Crown Princess of Japan, who's also Shinto's high priestess.)

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1 hour ago, Etheus said:

Ultimately, cliches become cliches because they are or were at some point considered effective. And really, it isn't what your plot is, but how well you utilize it, that matters. The most original story can fail with poor execution and the most overused ideas can work with strong execution.

I agree, and execution is the most important thing, but overuse of a trope is a very real thing. Japanese media in particular is absolutely overloaded with evil churches as villains.

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"Wowzers! The Church is evil, who woulda thunk it, Captinn?!" Granted this isn't that huge of a misstep seeing as it was obvious from the get go.

17 hours ago, PeaceRibbon said:

Welp, the story of Three Houses officially has all the nuance of a C-list anime. Hopefully there's gonna be enough good in other departments to make the game worth the buy, but geez, it's kinda scary how far the series writing has dived into shameless cliches.

Right, and the Earth's going to end in 5 years top.

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Again... At no pint was it said that the Church is pure evil.
I mean, due to how Fates and Echoes turned out, they will probably be part of them that are totally evil, sure.
But the fact I hardly see Rhea kicking puppies for fun may mean they wil at least try to add nuance.

There are actually reasonable reasons for us to face against the Church without them being evil. And even if I don't really expect great results (the story is really not the main point of FE for me. The main point is the characrters), I can see them trying.

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I mean, sure the game could still surprise me. I'd say there even a part of me that really wants to be delightfully awed by the game's story. I'm just mostly say at this point, I'm not holding my breath. I was already being pretty generously optimistic with the game's story when we learned it was going to take place in a fantasy high school setting, but then the protagonist gets superpowers way early in the game, then they confirmed they're doing the whole "lol your religion is bad, better rebel" thing... I really don't want to keep lying to myself and saying I'm completly okay with all of it just because it's Fire Emblem (in fact maybe concern for the writing stems from a place of care for the series, in its own way).

Edited by PeaceRibbon

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18 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Fates’s problems isn’t the fact it has anime cliches(which is a criticism I absolutely despise btw). The problem more so is that’s it’s a confused mess. Like it has no idea what it wants to be or what kind of story it wants to tell.

In all seriousness I actually tolerated the anime cliches in Fates knowing that Awakening had played with them a little bit as well, but my expectations we're that the fan's dissatisfaction with the story and characters would push Intelligence Systems to make the next game's story a little more in line with the series roots. I guess I was kinda stupid to think that would actually happen, Fates made a lot of money and when something makes money the best thing to do is repeat it over and over until it stops making money. So now we get Fire Emblem: Anime High School vs. Evil Church because going full anime makes bank these days. Knowing that Fire Emblem has gained so much momentum over the past few years and the Switch's stupid large install base, Three House is probably going to make a crap ton of money and the cycle will continue. So yeah, I'm alright with some anime tropes in my Fire Emblem, but I don't want them taking over the series, unless I hear great things about the game's gameplay I'm probably going to take a pass on this one.

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17 minutes ago, TheGoodHoms said:

In all seriousness I actually tolerated the anime cliches in Fates knowing that Awakening had played with them a little bit as well, but my expectations we're that the fan's dissatisfaction with the story and characters would push Intelligence Systems to make the next game's story a little more in line with the series roots. I guess I was kinda stupid to think that would actually happen, Fates made a lot of money and when something makes money the best thing to do is repeat it over and over until it stops making money. So now we get Fire Emblem: Anime High School vs. Evil Church because going full anime makes bank these days. Knowing that Fire Emblem has gained so much momentum over the past few years and the Switch's stupid large install base, Three House is probably going to make a crap ton of money and the cycle will continue. So yeah, I'm alright with some anime tropes in my Fire Emblem, but I don't want them taking over the series, unless I hear great things about the game's gameplay I'm probably going to take a pass on this one.

So, basically what you're saying is "Fire Emblem is becoming too anime for my taste"? I'd take that seriously, if Fire Emblem hand't been anime to begin with since day one. 

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58 minutes ago, TheGoodHoms said:

In all seriousness I actually tolerated the anime cliches in Fates knowing that Awakening had played with them a little bit as well, but my expectations we're that the fan's dissatisfaction with the story and characters would push Intelligence Systems to make the next game's story a little more in line with the series roots. I guess I was kinda stupid to think that would actually happen, Fates made a lot of money and when something makes money the best thing to do is repeat it over and over until it stops making money. So now we get Fire Emblem: Anime High School vs. Evil Church because going full anime makes bank these days. Knowing that Fire Emblem has gained so much momentum over the past few years and the Switch's stupid large install base, Three House is probably going to make a crap ton of money and the cycle will continue. So yeah, I'm alright with some anime tropes in my Fire Emblem, but I don't want them taking over the series, unless I hear great things about the game's gameplay I'm probably going to take a pass on this one.

Y’kn You’re kind of forgetting the fact that fire emblem has always had anime tropes and cliches in its writing ever since the very first installment so your complaint here is completely moot

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1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

Y’kn You’re kind of forgetting the fact that fire emblem has always had anime tropes and cliches in its writing ever since the very first installment so your complaint here is completely moot

I think he just means the quality of the writing isn't as good as games like echoes or path of radiance, as well as certain mechanics like marriage, avatars and child units coming back for every new main game now, because I'd agree with those concerns if that's what they are.

Sure, three houses isn't out yet, but to be honest...I have no faith the fanbase wouldn't defend the crap out of three houses even if it's story was another fates, since there's just too many people now that ONLY care about the characters and features to do with them...rather than getting another path of radiance or echoes again.

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15 minutes ago, Dinar87 said:

I think he just means the quality of the writing isn't as good as games like echoes or path of radiance, as well as certain mechanics like marriage, avatars and child units coming back for every new main game now, because I'd agree with those concerns if that's what they are.

Sure, three houses isn't out yet, but to be honest...I have no faith the fanbase wouldn't defend the crap out of three houses even if it's story was another fates, since there's just too many people now that ONLY care about the characters and features to do with them...rather than getting another path of radiance or echoes again.

Well, being really divised about everything is our main characteristic as a fandom.
Seeing as people are already bashing on a game that isn't even out yet, that wouldn't be too surprising.

Myself, I think I would actually prefer a simple story told well, than an ambitious mess like Fates.

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