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Serenes Emblem Discussion Thread (CHARACTER ROSTER IS FINALIZED)

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I can't but find amusing about tomes being bloated when you have the big load of physical weapons and categories. After all, without things like the weapon triangle, what ultimately separates a sword from an axe strategy like, in the same way an anima tome is to another, or to a light/dark one.

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3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I can't but find amusing about tomes being bloated when you have the big load of physical weapons and categories. After all, without things like the weapon triangle, what ultimately separates a sword from an axe strategy like, in the same way an anima tome is to another, or to a light/dark one.

?????

I don't think I understand what you're asking.

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7 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

?????

I don't think I understand what you're asking.

Well, it's kinda less a question than a question/observation hybrid. That magical weapons are so... lacking, compared to how many options you have for physical attacks.

Well, that's what FE has been for a while, I know. Still...

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, it's kinda less a question than a question/observation hybrid. That magical weapons are so... lacking, compared to how many options you have for physical attacks.

Well, the basic Light Tomes were supposed to be like the magical equivalent for Slim weapons, while the basic Dark Tomes were supposed to be like the magical equivalent for Blades/Greatlances/Labryses.  But I guess the Thunder/Ice/Wind Tomes do kind of render them obsolete with their effective bonuses.

I kind of had two reasons for wanting to merge all the Tomes into a single weapon type like this.  Firstly, I wanted to experiment with a magic balancing system other than the Trinity of Magic.  Secondly, I wanted an excuse to use those sweet Ice-elemental animations that SRPG Studio has among its defaults.  SRPG Studio has 20 default magic animations for Tomes (4 each for Fire and Light and 3 each for Thunder, Ice, Wind, and Dark).  You can add custom Tome animations, but there are very few floating around for Fire, Thunder, Ice, and Wind compared to Light and Dark.

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26 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Well, the basic Light Tomes were supposed to be like the magical equivalent for Slim weapons, while the basic Dark Tomes were supposed to be like the magical equivalent for Blades/Greatlances/Labryses.  But I guess the Thunder/Ice/Wind Tomes do kind of render them obsolete with their effective bonuses.

The biggest issue I've always had with light tomes is that they way far too much compared to the other tomes for what you get off of them, there slim magic in might hit and crit but blades in weight, elder magic at least had cool effects (and fenrir) to balance out the weight. Perhaps light magic would be better compared to fates clubs, being an infinitely worse version of a pre-existing type. 

The issue with removing non-special light and dark tomes is that it means you only really lose flux from the dark tree ( fenrir isn't a real weapon in gba Fire Emblem) and just throw all the light magic out the window (unless you take a leaf out of the worst games book and make lightning brave again). 

Anyway in this new system how do the Runesword, Wind Sword and Light Brand work, and are there be fire/thunder elemental swords as well?

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20 minutes ago, Pengaius said:

Anyway in this new system how do the Runesword, Wind Sword and Light Brand work, and are there be fire/thunder elemental swords as well?

The Shining weapon family (Shining Edge, Shining Spear, Shining Axe, Shining Dagger, Shining Bow) are simply indirect attack weapons that target Res instead of Def.  The Runesword and elemental Swords are not planned for inclusion.

Anyway, I think I've figured out how to alter Sanctaea Chronicles's class tree to squeeze in Troubadours, but you might not like it.  Remember as you read this that Tomes are still technically merged into a single weapon type, meaning a character can always wield Light/Dark and Anima equally well if they have Light/Dark access:

  • Mages wield Light and Anima Tomes and can promote into either Bishops (gaining access to Staves) or Mage Knights (losing access to Light Tomes in exchange for a mount and possibly also a small Critical bonus)
  • Dark Mages wield Anima and Dark Tomes and can promote into either Sorcerers (gaining access to Staves) or Mage Knights (losing access to Dark Tomes in exchange for a mount and possibly also a small Critical bonus)
  • Priests wield Staves and can promote into either Bishops (gaining access to Light and Anima Tomes) or Sorcerers (gaining access to Anima and Dark Tomes)
  • Troubadours wield Staves and can only promote into Strategists (gaining access to Anima Tomes)
  • Bards wield Anima Tomes and cannot promote, but have a Level cap of 40

Now, all of this is assuming there is no Str/Mag split, just like in Sanctaea Chronicles.  In addition, Troubadours would not be the only class with only one promotion (the Lord classes and Sword/Lance/Axe Armors are like this, too).  I could add a Str/Mag split, but this would necessitate further edits to the class tree to add in more classes that take advantage of it.

Edited by Von Ithipathachai

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On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 7:08 PM, Sire said:

Going off of my application again, maybe it may be wise to streamline the process. Here's my submission, but in template form for easier viewing.

Username: Sire
Game Name: Sire
Desired Class: Great Knight (Axe)
Desired Archetype: Gotoh, Lorenz, or Camus

This seems like a good way to organize it. And on that note, I’ll sign up myself!

Username: MegaTheGamer 
Game NameRonald 
Desired ClassMage Knight (As per Von’s magic classes above, if unpromoted, I’d prefer Dark Mage)

It seems like we’re not at the stage of designating roles yet, but I imagine I’d be an independent/rogue element at first before joining. Like L’arachel or RD!Tormod. But that isn’t necessary if we’re still hammering out details.

Edited by MegaTheGamer
I don’t know why the font size is jank

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On 5/24/2019 at 6:57 PM, Joshii said:

@Von Ithipathachai Yeah, why not? I'll add them to the list of characters.

But I got to ask, who'll be the "christmas cavaliers"? Just a small question.

Me and my brother would love to be the Bord and Cord!

Tuvy2’s/My character:

Character Name: Zander

 Character Class: Pirate, preferably more speed and skill based

Tuvy’s character:

Character Name: Cruz

Character Class: Pirate, preferably more strength and hp based

 

Edited by Tuvy2

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Alright, I finally got my character sheet set in order! 

Name: Joshua

Class: Cavalier

Starting Stats: 

HP: 19

STR: 8

SKL: 4

SPD: 6

LCK: 5 

DEF: 6

RES: 0

I'll add more if necessary

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On 5/25/2019 at 10:44 PM, Joshii said:

Alright, I finally got my character sheet set in order! 

Name: Joshua

Class: Cavalier

Starting Stats: 

HP: 19

STR: 8

SKL: 4

SPD: 6

LCK: 5 

DEF: 6

RES: 0

I'll add more if necessary

Okay, but keep in mind that no class in Sanctaea Chronicles has a base of 0 in any stat and SRPG Studio will not allow you to give a character negative personal bases (though classes can have negative personal bases).  Do you have a specific weapon type in mind?  Sanctaea Chronicles uses Sword/Lance/Axe/Bow Cavaliers a la the Tellius games.  Anacybele and Brave Lance will probably specialize in one of Swords or Lances.  How would you like specializing in Axes?

With that said, I've made a record of everyone who might want to be in the game and what their classes could be.  Both their desired classes and those classes' closest Sanctaea Chronicles equivalents are listed:

Quote

Anacybele- Cavalier (Sword/Lance Cavalier?) (probably Sword Cavalier)
SatsumaFSoysoy- Myrmidon
vanguard333- Mercenary (Myrmidon?)
Azure in a Roundabout- Mage
Sire- Great Knight (promoted from Lance/Axe Cavalier?) (probably Axe Cavalier -> Great Knight)
Brave Lance- Cavalier (probably Lance Cavalier)
BergelomeuSantos- Soldier
Acacia Sgt- Dark Mage
alatartheblue42- Sword Armor
Lightchao42- Bishop (promoted from Mage)
eclipse- Moderator (resembles an Axe Armor)
AzuraxCorrin(M)4Life- Manakete (named Corra)
Integrity- ??? (probably Moderator, specific weapon type uncertain) (obtain consent first)
Pengaius- ??? (probably Bow Cavalier or one of its promotions)
GreatKnightEcho- Priest
MegaTheGamer- Mage Knight (Dark Mage -> Mage Knight)
Tuvy- Pirate (Fighter?) (named Cruz)
Tuvy2- Pirate (Fighter?) (named Zander)
Joshii- Thief (named Joshua)
Von Ithipathachai- Priest
VincentASM- ??? (probably Administrator, specific weapon type uncertain) (obtain consent first)
Nym- Therian
Fiver- Archer
Florete- Dancer
thecrimsonflash- Manakete (named Crimson)
Anathaco- Pegasus Rider
LMDHad0uken- Dragon Rider (named Hadouken)

My idea was that @eclipse, @Integrity, and @VincentASM would all have unique classes, known as Moderators (for eclipse and Integrity) or Administrators (for VincentASM).  But I still don't know what weapon type(s) they'd wield.

Would the three of you be okay with being in the game, and how would you describe your ideal class?

Also, for anyone else interested in being a playable character, we have almost no Soldiers, Archers, Thieves, Dancers/Bards, or fliers yet.  Keep this in mind when submitting your class.  While I hate to dissuade people from picking the class they want, I'd also like to have a healthy amount of class variety in the playable cast at the same time.

EDIT: Classes updated.

Edited by Von Ithipathachai

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9 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

BergelomeuSantos- ??? (probably Soldier, Lance Armor, Pegasus Rider, or Dragon Rider)

Doesn't matter much, but...Only give me a flier if you want to make a joke about it, because..Both me and my OC (Bergelomeu) are afraid of height.

However, since there is a lack of Soldiers, I volunteer myself as one. Soldiers are by far one of my favorites classes in the series and I would be honored to be one.

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Actually, I might switch to thief. I've always preferred them over any other class anyway, and Assassin is one of my favorite classes in the series. So if it ain't too late, I'll go ahead and switch over to thief.

My revamped starting stats

HP: 15

Str: 8

Skl: 9

SPD: 8

Lck: 9

Def: 5

Res: 2

Do whatever you want with my growths, but I don't want to be an Est, so I want to join somewhat early.

Edited by Joshii

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6 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I can't but find amusing about tomes being bloated when you have the big load of physical weapons and categories. After all, without things like the weapon triangle, what ultimately separates a sword from an axe strategy like, in the same way an anima tome is to another, or to a light/dark one.

Well, it used to be hand axes / javelins, but Kodachi is a thing now so I guess that doesn't work anymore.

6 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, it's kinda less a question than a question/observation hybrid. That magical weapons are so... lacking, compared to how many options you have for physical attacks.

Well, that's what FE has been for a while, I know. Still...

I think one major part of it might be the superior class variety among physical units. You got fast dudes, armor dudes, strong dudes, weak dudes, big dudes, small dudes, girl dudes, so many different stat layouts, and each one has a particular weapon associated with it, and in turn that class becomes associated with the weapon and becomes a part of its identity, what makes it distinct. Mages commonly function the same in combat, so they don't really get that, even if, say, axes and lances aren't as functionally distinct as light and dark based on their stats alone.

5 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Anyway, I think I've figured out how to alter Sanctaea Chronicles's class tree to squeeze in Troubadours, but you might not like it.

Eh, I'm not big on it. It always bothered me for Dark Knights to lose their nosferatu use, you know. Might I please inquire about the possibility of instead implementing Shadowgift as, like, a character skill? So, for example, we got good ol' Sarge, he's a "dark mage," but that just means he's one of those mages with the Shadowgift personal skill. Whether he promotes to, say, a sage or mage knight or whatever, he retains his dark magic, but that doesn't mean every sage or mage knight has dark magic.

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1 hour ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

My idea was that @eclipse, @Integrity, and @VincentASM would all have unique classes, known as Moderators (for eclipse and Integrity) or Administrators (for VincentASM).  But I still don't know what weapon type(s) they'd wield.

Would the three of you be okay with being in the game, and how would you describe your ideal class?

I'll only speak for myself: HELL YES!

As for class type. . .

Moderator: High HP/Def/Res to tolerate all the immature crap that gets people warned/banned.  Low speed, because I need to work on responding to things faster.  Wield dark magic/axes.  Dark magic because we are the ones that know the inner workings of the rules, and axes so I can use a banhammer! :P:

Edited by eclipse

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8 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I can't but find amusing about tomes being bloated when you have the big load of physical weapons and categories. After all, without things like the weapon triangle, what ultimately separates a sword from an axe strategy like, in the same way an anima tome is to another, or to a light/dark one.

Its mostly what @AnonymousSpeed said. Yes, swords, lances, and axes have a ton of weapons too. I'm personally not a huge fan of having a "slim" weapon for every rank, for example. However, there are two factors to consider. First is that there are way more physical units and there is more diversity amongst physical classes. Unless we're getting Barons or some sort of Mage Duelist, most mages are going to be mildly dodgy, decently resistant, and pre-melted butter to cold steel, whereas with just swords, you have sanic myrmidons, all-round mercs, armor swords, and any other class that uses swords.

Secondly, note that the majority of swords are "basic weapons", whereas most tomes are "specialty weapons". Fancy swords have a clear purpose: you want to slay, you want to crit, you want to take a risk that always seems to backfire at least for me, or you want magic/range. Fancy tomes each have their purpose, but there are so many that there's not much reason (imo) to use the basic tomes. I'd always run an Iron and Silver sword in addition to my Killing edge and maybe Armorslayer, but for tomes I'd be running 3 elemental things and Nosferatu+Purge/Waste+Miasma maybe. I wouldn't touch basic tomes outside of maybe a basic Fire to have an ammo stockpile just in case.

 

@Von Ithipathachai Your choice on whether/how to reduce tomes, of course. I'd personally drop the low and high rank 3 element tomes, but if you would prefer to axe the Light/Dark that's alright too. Or however else you want.

Btw, between Armor Sword and Priest, probably Armor Sword. We've already got a priest, a troubador, and a prepromote(?) priest; a fourth T1 healer would be silly. If your armors get a second weapon on promotion, I'd prefer Lances. T1 Armor Lance would be cool too, but we weirdly seem to be low on swords. Could this be a somewhat more historically accurate than usual weapon distribution?

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9 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Eh, I'm not big on it. It always bothered me for Dark Knights to lose their nosferatu use, you know. Might I please inquire about the possibility of instead implementing Shadowgift as, like, a character skill? So, for example, we got good ol' Sarge, he's a "dark mage," but that just means he's one of those mages with the Shadowgift personal skill. Whether he promotes to, say, a sage or mage knight or whatever, he retains his dark magic, but that doesn't mean every sage or mage knight has dark magic.

At first I didn't think it would be possible, but in fact I should be able to, assuming Tomes are kept merged into one weapon type.  So yeah, I should be able to implement Shadowgift to designate Dark Magic users (and by extension Lumina for Light Magic users).

With this in mind, I'm wondering if the Dark Mage and Sorcerer classes are even needed anymore.  I could just have a single Mage class and the would-be Dark Mages could simply be Mages with access to Shadowgift and Dark Mage-like stat spreads emphasizing Def over Res.  Sort of like how I'd like to make both @SatsumaFSoysoy and @vanguard333 Myrmidons, but give vanguard333 more balanced Mercenary stats and give SatsumaFSoysoy more agile Myrmidon stats.  Also, Myrmidons in Sanctaea Chronicles can promote into either Swordmasters or Heroes.

Finally, if I got rid of the Rank E and B anti-Armor/Cavalry/Flying Tomes and only left the Rank D ones, I'd have to come up with a new name scheme for those Rank D Tomes.  How about Lightning for anti-Armor (as in electric lightning and not Light Magic Lightning, which would not exist), Blizzard for anti-Cavalry, and Shaver for anti-Flying?  And I could get rid of the Light and Dark Rank S Tomes and make a single Anima Rank S Tome, Ragnarok.

EDIT: As it stands now, there would only be like three Tomes each for Light and Dark magic.  The Light Tomes would be Nosferatu (HP drain), Sagittae (physical), and Purge (long-range), while the Dark Tomes would be Miasma (Poison), Death (Killer), and Waste (Brave).  3 weapons feels like kind of a low number to warrant locking them behind a Skill.  How many people would rather just have the normal Light/Anima/Dark Trinity of Magic that Sanctaea Chronicles and the GBA Fire Emblem games already use?  Also, how many people would want a Str/Mag split?

Edited by Von Ithipathachai

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1 hour ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

EDIT: As it stands now, there would only be like three Tomes each for Light and Dark magic.  The Light Tomes would be Nosferatu (HP drain), Sagittae (physical), and Purge (long-range), while the Dark Tomes would be Miasma (Poison), Death (Killer), and Waste (Brave).  3 weapons feels like kind of a low number to warrant locking them behind a Skill.  How many people would rather just have the normal Light/Anima/Dark Trinity of Magic that Sanctaea Chronicles and the GBA Fire Emblem games already use?  Also, how many people would want a Str/Mag split?

Well, I personally always felt the single Tome rank of the DS games gave Mages less individuality than what the GBA games had. But that's more of a subjective preference rather than a technical analysis; I don't have any sense for design/balance and can only give my opinion. Same goes for a Str/Mag split. I'm a big fan of spellswords or the like and something like a Mage Knight with Lances appeals to me, but I don't know if having one would make balance harder or make the game more interesting per se.

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I guess I'll throw my ring in to the hat with more details.

  • Username: Lightchao42
  • Game Name: Lucian
  • Desired Class: Bishop (from Mage)

You can do whatever you want regarding stats, but I imagine him joining late-ish.

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First I would like to add my class.

I have two options:

Option that could be difficult to implement: 

Class: Shapeshifter (A human that changes into a beast to fight)

Weapon: Beastone

You guess it, this is how I would the best way to represent my gimmick. I imagine we could find stones hidden through the game, don't know yet if you should switch between stones or you can only choose one stone per playthrough.

Safer choice:

Class: Est Mage who excellent growths but bad base stats.

Also don't forget the story guys. Because I kind of fail to see the moderators class in a story for the moment.

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23 minutes ago, Nym said:

Class: Shapeshifter (A human that changes into a beast to fight)

Weapon: Beaststone

You guess it, this is how I would the best way to represent my gimmick. I imagine we could find stones hidden through the game, don't know yet if you should switch between stones or you can only choose one stone per playthrough.

This should be doable.  SRPG Studio recently added some new animal classes to its defaults in case you ever want to transform into the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog.  Or a cat.  You'll probably transform into a cat.

Are you familiar with how Manaketes work in Mystery of the Emblem?  Dragonstones are not weapons in and of themselves, but are items used to temporarily transform into a more powerful Dragon class that fights using Breath weapons.  Your class (Therian) would work in the same manner, wielding Strike weapons like a Laguz.

Edited by Von Ithipathachai

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@Nym ...I can't help but to imagine the two Eevees thing being implemented into the game someway shape or form...

The shape shifter thing is a neat idea though!

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26 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

This should be doable.  SRPG Studio recently added some new animal classes to its defaults in case you ever want to transform into the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog.  Or a cat.  You'll probably transform into a cat.

Are you familiar with how Manaketes work in Mystery of the Emblem?  Dragonstones are not weapons in and of themselves, but are items used to temporarily transform into a more powerful Dragon class that fights using Breath weapons.  Your class (Therian) would work in the same manner, wielding Strike weapons like a Laguz.

A cat is fine by me.

Never played that game, but that's nice to hear. I was afraid that would cause too many programing issues.

25 minutes ago, Joshii said:

@Nym ...I can't help but to imagine the two Eevees thing being implemented into the game someway shape or form...

The shape shifter thing is a neat idea though!

A map where the player has to choose between two shapeshifters, each with their different base stats and growths?

Thanks!

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17 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Pengaius- ??? (probably Bow Cavalier or one of its promotions)

Bow cav/nomad line sounds good, and if possible I'd like to be high def/hp/con low spd everything else average. A mounted bow tank, can act as a wall but because of the bows cannot counterattack very well, this way you can have a high mov enemy phase damage magnet, without them being a take no damage but kill everything on EP. 

As for the formal entry yadda yadda

  • Username: Pengaius
  • Character name: Butter the beast Pengaius
  • Class: Bow Cavalier 
  • Recruitable, but shows up as an enemy first. (possibly tutorial/prologue enemy/boss)
Edited by Pengaius

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22 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

EDIT: As it stands now, there would only be like three Tomes each for Light and Dark magic.  The Light Tomes would be Nosferatu (HP drain), Sagittae (physical), and Purge (long-range), while the Dark Tomes would be Miasma (Poison), Death (Killer), and Waste (Brave).  3 weapons feels like kind of a low number to warrant locking them behind a Skill.  How many people would rather just have the normal Light/Anima/Dark Trinity of Magic that Sanctaea Chronicles and the GBA Fire Emblem games already use?  Also, how many people would want a Str/Mag split?

Personally, I was always a fan of the Trinity of Magic existing, despite its flaws. Whatever works, though.

Str/Mag split is likewise cool to have. However, most of the classes I've heard tossed around thus far have been the classic classes, not Awakening/Fates stuff. A Str/Mag split is only really relevant if there are people out there using both at the same time. While hybrids are cool concepts, I don't know if you have classes that would work for them, if there would be enough interest in them, if they would mess with balance too much, etc.

On that note, it would be interesting to see how having both the Trinity of Magic and hybrid classes would work. Hybrids in FE were only ever with the single Tome category, after all.

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3 hours ago, alatartheblue42 said:

Personally, I was always a fan of the Trinity of Magic existing, despite its flaws. Whatever works, though.

The commonly cited issues with the Trinity of Magic are that the magical weapon types almost never have as much variety as the physical ones and that most magical classes tend to have high Res and low Def, reducing the incentive for magic user-on-magic user combat.

Sanctaea Chronicles tries to give the Trinity of Magic more impact by having it grant Attack ±3 in addition to Accuracy ±15.  More importantly, it gives Monks and Bishops high Res and low Def, gives Mages, Sages, and Mage Knights roughly equal Def and Res, and gives Shamans and Druids high Def and low Res.  But the latter measure is also flawed because not all magic-wielding classes gain equal benefits from it, i.e. Monks can tear Shamans to shreds, but Shamans struggle more to kill Mages unless they're wielding particularly powerful Dark tomes like Crush (Worm) or Malice (Fenrir).

So what I'm thinking of doing for SF Emblem is not only increasing the Trinity of Magic's Attack effect from ±3 to ±5, but also giving everybody extremely low Res with maybe a 5% growth rate in that stat.  Obviously either magic-wielding classes would need to have their Pow lowered or Tomes would need to have their Mt lowered accordingly.

Edited by Von Ithipathachai

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