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Sooo... I've gotten started on Megadimension Neptunia VII. The game is amazing. Seriously. I fell in love with it the moment I started playing.
The dungeons (except the ones that have returning designs) feel a lot more dungeon-y this time around. Some of them give me Persona 5 vibes, which is great. They also did away with the tough enemies (at least for now), so I can fight everything without having to worry about it. Though the overall difficulty has shot up considerably from Re;Birth, which I don't mind. I just need to keep a healthy amount of healing items at the ready.
The English voice acting is much improved even from Re;Birth 3, to the point where I prefer some of it to the Japanese original (the new character, Uzume, is one of those instances).
To top it all of, the soundtrack is godly.

Also, there is an adult version of Neptune.
I'm guessing it's the same character that appeared in the post-credits scene of Re;Birth 3, since she mentioned a "Plu-something" (who is obviously Plutia) as the Planeptune CPU of "her dimension". I hope she and the "original" Neptune meet at some point.

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Dropped and returned Tales of Vesperia. Clunky, rigid and unresposive Combat that is archaic even by 2008 standards. Sure, Story and setting seem interesting enough, but the Combat is terribad. Don't try to be a 2D fighter while you are a 3D game. Man, am i glad Modern Tales isn't like that anymore. Berseria was of the games i had most fun with in the last few years.

Picked up Tokyo Xanadu Ex+ and Fairy Fencer F: Advent Dark Force. Hopefully the first one scratches my Ys itch while school stuff doesn't annoy me as much as Cold Steel did and the second is by IF/CH, who made games i've been enjoying recently, and has a Neptunia like gameplay with a HELL difficulty. I am expecting to have fun with that one.

Also playing Fire Emble: Midori hack. It's fun, but kinda annoying i don't get choose which units go to who during the route split. Ephraim got all my Strong Characters, while Eirika is screwd.

Also played a bit more of Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance. Fast slick action Combat. Just how i love it.

3 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

To top it all of, the soundtrack is godly

No joke. MegaNep's OST is Falcom Tier good.

3 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Also, there is an adult version of Neptune.
I'm guessing it's the same character that appeared in the post-credits scene of Re;Birth 3, since she mentioned a "Plu-something" (who is obviously Plutia) as the Planeptune CPU of "her dimension". I hope she and the "original" Neptune meet at some point.

remember when everyone thought Human Neptune of Ultra dimension would've died? They were all wrong 😄

Edited by Shrimperor
Neptuna -> Neptune. Even i mispronounce Neptune....
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Nearing endgame feels for Bloodstained. Quick hits:

  • Beating a monster at a race instead of smashing your weapon in his face is oddly satisfying.
  • Getting the upper hand at said monster required me to do something I have honestly taken a walk on: mastering weapon moves, particularly those that have Miriam dashing forward.
  • You had to empty your coffers at a certain point, so when a boss drains your reserves to replenish his HP, he gets squat, and loses. Utter lols.
  • Gold is not a problem at all in the endgame (as with any other RPG/action game worth its salt), especially if you equip certain items and shards.
  • Watching an animated slot machine get three 7's and killing itself while dropping a ton of gold, a rare crafting ingredient, and its own shard, is hilarious.
Edited by Karimlan
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23 hours ago, Armagon said:

Nah, you're right. But that's a thing with the series in general.

Okay, thank you. I don't mind all that much, I was just wondering.

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

Dropped and returned Tales of Vesperia. Clunky, rigid and unresposive Combat that is archaic even by 2008 standards. Sure, Story and setting seem interesting enough, but the Combat is terribad. Don't try to be a 2D fighter while you are a 3D game. Man, am i glad Modern Tales isn't like that anymore. Berseria was of the games i had most fun with in the last few years.

Really, you thought it was that bad? I can agree, the controls are very... awkward, for sure, but I didn't think it was horrible. The text kinda killed it for me, considering there was an error every other sentence, it made the story confusing.

Edited by lightcosmo
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1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

Dropped and returned Tales of Vesperia. Clunky, rigid and unresposive Combat that is archaic even by 2008 standards. Sure, Story and setting seem interesting enough, but the Combat is terribad. Don't try to be a 2D fighter while you are a 3D game. Man, am i glad Modern Tales isn't like that anymore. Berseria was of the games i had most fun with in the last few years.

Yeah, I can agree to that. When I played Vesperia for the first time I had TONS of fun with it - admittedly more with the story than the gameplay. Going back to it now after playing Berseria is rough, to say the least.
Generally speaking, one should never play newer games in certain franchises before older ones. It usually doesn't end well. I tried Persona 4 Golden after playing Persona 5 (biggest mistake of my gaming life) and I was... less than impressed, honestly. The same holds true for many Atlus games, though. For example: Etrian Odyssey IV, while great, is not as good as Etrian Odyssey Untold, which came out after it, due to the many QoL improvements.

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

Fairy Fencer F: Advent Dark Force.

Definitely tell me what you think about this one, since I've been on the fence if I should try this or not.

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

No joke. MegaNep's OST is Falcom Tier good.

A-yup.

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

remember when everyone thought Human Neptune of Ultra dimension would've died? They were all wrong 😄

Showed them! XD

One thing I forgot to mention in my first post: Holy crap, the giant CPU fights! Epicness incarnate, especially that music!
I finished the Zero Dimension Arc earlier, too. Apparently, this game consists of several sub-games. An interesting way of structuring things, to be sure.

I hope the giant CPU thing isn't wrapped up now. Because in the opening, there were four of these things running around. Since they kinda looked like gigantic, evil versions of "our" CPUs and the one that appeared in this arc was called Dark Purple (for Neptune/Planeptune), I'm assuming the others are Dark Black (for Noire/Lastation), Dark White (for Blanc/Lowee), and Dark Green (for Vert/Leanbox), and that they will be important somehow for future storyline(s?). I hope so, at least.

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58 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Really, you thought it was that bad? I can agree, the controls are very... awkward, for sure, but I didn't think it was horrible.

unresponsive and awkward controls are a dealbreaker for me in Action games. While i do prefer my action games be fast, i also don't mind them being slow as long as controlling characters is smooth, slick and responsive. ToV wasn'T any of those during combat. There's a huge delay before & after every action, not to mention alot of times the character doesn't do what i want (and i made sure to set it up to manual). Also, being locked to 2D in a 3D action game pissed me off, especially since in 3D mode/free roam i can't start a combo. Like why?  It feels less like an action game and more like a slow arcade fighting game. And from fighting games i only play smash tbh, and it's a pretty damn fast fighting game.

26 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Generally speaking, one should never play newer games in certain franchises before older ones.

Well, it's not like i had any choice in the matter, due to lack of PC ports (and Berseria being the 2nd Tales game being ported and one of the first jrpgs ported to Steam). The Tales fanbase also likes to hype Vesperia as the Holy Grail of Tales, so my expectations where kinda off the Charts, since i really really loved Berseria (even if it was kinda button mashy).

26 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

One thing I forgot to mention in my first post: Holy crap, the giant CPU fights! Epicness incarnate, especially that music!

That's how you do giant fights right! Without sacrificing the stuff that makes your battle system special & fun *cough*Cold Steel*cough*.

26 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

I finished the Zero Dimension Arc earlier, too

You can now view the True Ending requirements without getting spoiled^^

i will just copy Armagon's post in the spoiler tag^^

 

Bad Ending: Don't do anything.

Normal Ending:

1st arc: View every event.

2nd arc: This arc is split into four stories. You can complete the stories in any order but be sure to get all the requirements. They are:

  • Neptune's Story: 
    • Before going to “Sakura Tree Row”, be sure to complete the guild quest “First Some Practice” to kill 8 Dogoos. You can find them in the only other dungeon available at this point “First-Gen CPU Sanctuary.” After completing this quest and turning it in, be sure to view the Histoire event under “Converse”.
    • After you complete “Sakura Tree Row”, view the new event with Histoire and Compa which will unlock a new question at the guild.
    • Accept “Histy’s Extermination Request 1” from the guild. This quest can also be completed in “First-Gen CPUs Sanctuary Dungeon”. The quest is to kill 10 Delinquent Cats
    • After completing “Histy’s Extermination Request 1” and turning it in, view the event that follows and accept “Histy’s Extermination Request 2” from the guild and head back to “Sakura Tree Row”. This quest requires you to kill 10 Red Dogoos.
    • After completing “Histy’s Extermination Request 2”, view the event that follows.
    • Last but not least, be sure you get your Share % to 60+. The easiest way to do this is by boosting “Public Relations” under “Investment” or by doing quests from the guild.
  • Noire, Blanc and Vert's Stories: Raise the Shares of their respective nations to at least 40% and watch each of their daydream events.

3rd arc: At one point in the final world map, there will be four events across the world map. Don't watch them.

True Ending: Do all of the Normal End requirements but this time actually watch the four events.

12 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Definitely tell me what you think about this one, since I've been on the fence if I should try this or not.

Will do^^

Edited by Shrimperor
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2 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

Dropped and returned Tales of Vesperia. Clunky, rigid and unresposive Combat that is archaic even by 2008 standards. Sure, Story and setting seem interesting enough, but the Combat is terribad. Don't try to be a 2D fighter while you are a 3D game.

This. That's exactly why i couldn't get into Tales of the Abyss. I feel like older Tales games couldn't decide what dimension they wanted to be in.

Tales of Phantasia (PS1) is actually a 2D fighter on a 2D plane and the only reason i couldn't get into that one was because the game has not aged well at all. Some magic attacks take up the whole screen and the game will wait for the attack to finish before anyone (including enemies) can move again. And if said magic attacks are being spammed, you do not get to play the game.

2 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

No joke. MegaNep's OST is Falcom Tier good.

Big agree

39 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Generally speaking, one should never play newer games in certain franchises before older ones.

Mmmmmm that's a case by case basis. Some yes, some no. Like with Fire Emblem, i started with Awakening and i was able to play the older games just fine. Er, most of them. FE1 and 2 were unplayable because of how dated they are and the Jugdral series is about as fun as standing in the hot summer Florida sun for 5 hours.

Other franchises just straight up change how they play every few games. Examples include Xeno, Ys and Shining. There, comparing the predecessors to the successors is harder because of how different they might be on the gameplay standpoint. At that point, it becomes more of a preference. Which gameplay style do you prefer in a series that has multiple.

And then you have games like Mario and Zelda where for the most part, it honestly doesn't matter where you start from a gameplay standpoint.

The one thing that's guaranteed to happen when you play older games after newer games in a series is that the flaws of the older games become more noticeable. I don't mean this in a bad way but some games haven't just aged the best and nearly all of them lack the improvements that the newer games made mechanically. It's just a thing that happens. Whether or not this breaks a game for you is a different matter.

1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

Holy crap, the giant CPU fights! Epicness incarnate, especially that music!

Encounter of Destiny is Godlike. One of things that makes Megadimension's OST so good is that for the first time in the mainline series, most of the songs are new. ReBirth trilogy (and the original trilogy by extension) kinda reused a lot of songs and these were good songs but there wasn't a whole lot of new songs.

Megadimension pretty much set the standard for the mainline series. We haven't gotten a mainline game since 2015 (not counting VIIR) but i like to believe that Compile Heart's hard at work making a new mainline game and the spin-offs are just there to keep us entertained. 

 

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I needed two years to beat Tales of Vesperia. 

I almost dropped it because of a certain boss I could not beat. 

Everyone who has played the game, knows about whom I am talking about. 

Still it is a great game overall with a fantastic story and a rather simple battle system. 

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21 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Disney's A Bug's Life

...I might have played a bit of those eons ago. Not much, but I certainly remember some. And I did play the nefarious Enter the Dragonfly; no longer have it however, must have went the way of Pokemon Colosseum.

Your exclusion of SMS is odd, although its choice of how you unlock the final battle is more odd. I get the point- solve all the troubles of all of the locations, ending with a Shadow Mario hunt. But 3D Platformer =/ Collectathon all the time (Sonic comes to mind as the obvious exception). And the SMGs being excluded is certainly logical enough.

As for the Metroid Primes, I'd call them First Person Action-Adventure. 

And I don't see Rocket: Robot on Wheels on this list, perhaps you should consider adding it. Only six worlds, with 12 Tickets (Power Star/Jiggy replacements), but it might be fun. It seems like the Sly team made it before Sly was a thing.

 

I'm been trying out Super Famicom Wars, the fourth game in the now-dead Nintendo Wars franchise. It was preceded by Famicom Wars and Game Boy Wars 1 and GBW Turbo, and it was followed by GBW2 and GBW3 before Advance Wars was finally invented.

I played a no-frills Bean Island battle against the easy AI Rojenski, it was fun.

Then I tried Traitor River in 4P without any allies as Red against Rojenski, Rosso, and Hetler. I tried that map because it has Artillery Trains, a unit type unique to SFW and I wanted to try it out.

I quit the map almost 50 days in. My Mech spam on Rosso's northwestern extremity was being pushed back with no real hope of recovery. The Artillery Trains and the railroad track slowing down unit movement made advancing impossible. Hetler's AI I knew was the defensive one, but he was so defensive that Rosso never diverted his attention to him, which I needed if my Mechs were to succeed in their goal.

I want to redo the map later, this time I'll Mech Rush down Blue/Rojenski and see if I can conquer him. More of his territory being in Rocket range might make him beatable. And maybe I'll cheat a little by setting my CO to Caroline, and perhaps I'll set Yuan Delta to Yellow so Rojenski and Rosso will be put under greater pressure on their other front. Then again, maybe I should just pick a different map with Artillery Trains.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And I did play the nefarious Enter the Dragonfly; no longer have it however, must have went the way of Pokemon Colosseum.

Even as a kid I remember glitch hunting. In the hub world there was a gate leading to another set of levels and you can just...dash right through. As Spyro speedrunners will tell you, "walls are merely a suggestion" but at least in those PS1 spyro games they had enough collision on boundaries that you had to get very creative to clip out of bounds. 

Quote

And I don't see Rocket: Robot on Wheels on this list, perhaps you should consider adding it. Only six worlds, with 12 Tickets (Power Star/Jiggy replacements), but it might be fun. It seems like the Sly team made it before Sly was a thing.

If I could find that game at a reasonable price I would. I watched an LP of it many years ago and it looked very fun, if a liiitttle mean with certain platforming sections. But only games I have played personally make it onto the list. I also excluded Tonic Trouble from the list, because my memories of that game are so spotty I don't even remember if it fit the definitions I laid out

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6 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

Well, it's not like i had any choice in the matter, due to lack of PC ports (and Berseria being the 2nd Tales game being ported and one of the first jrpgs ported to Steam). The Tales fanbase also likes to hype Vesperia as the Holy Grail of Tales, so my expectations where kinda off the Charts, since i really really loved Berseria (even if it was kinda button mashy).

I wasn't criticizing you, though. I had the same experience with Persona 4 Golden and Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate (also Holy Grails in their respective franchises), that's why I said that.

5 hours ago, Armagon said:

Mmmmmm that's a case by case basis. Some yes, some no. Like with Fire Emblem, i started with Awakening and i was able to play the older games just fine. Er, most of them. FE1 and 2 were unplayable because of how dated they are and the Jugdral series is about as fun as standing in the hot summer Florida sun for 5 hours.

Other franchises just straight up change how they play every few games. Examples include Xeno, Ys and Shining. There, comparing the predecessors to the successors is harder because of how different they might be on the gameplay standpoint. At that point, it becomes more of a preference. Which gameplay style do you prefer in a series that has multiple.

And then you have games like Mario and Zelda where for the most part, it honestly doesn't matter where you start from a gameplay standpoint.

The one thing that's guaranteed to happen when you play older games after newer games in a series is that the flaws of the older games become more noticeable. I don't mean this in a bad way but some games haven't just aged the best and nearly all of them lack the improvements that the newer games made mechanically. It's just a thing that happens. Whether or not this breaks a game for you is a different matter.

Good point.
I was speaking about my own experiences, where this cropped up many a time (I named two major examples), but I am aware that it doesn't hold true for every franchise. Fire Emblem is a big one on the other side of the river, I will agree with you there.

I also wasn't trying to bash those games. Rather, it can be seen in a positive light, too. That going back to older games is harder when you've played the newer ones just means that the devs learned from their hypothetical mistakes and made many improvements to give the players a better experience. That's how I see it, at least.

6 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

That's how you do giant fights right! Without sacrificing the stuff that makes your battle system special & fun *cough*Cold Steel*cough*.

Definitely. The mech fights, while accompanied by amazing music, absolutely pale in comparison.

6 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

You can now view the True Ending requirements without getting spoiled^^

i will just copy Armagon's post in the spoiler tag^^

  Reveal hidden contents

Bad Ending: Don't do anything.

Normal Ending:

1st arc: View every event.

2nd arc: This arc is split into four stories. You can complete the stories in any order but be sure to get all the requirements. They are:

  • Neptune's Story: 
    • Before going to “Sakura Tree Row”, be sure to complete the guild quest “First Some Practice” to kill 8 Dogoos. You can find them in the only other dungeon available at this point “First-Gen CPU Sanctuary.” After completing this quest and turning it in, be sure to view the Histoire event under “Converse”.
    • After you complete “Sakura Tree Row”, view the new event with Histoire and Compa which will unlock a new question at the guild.
    • Accept “Histy’s Extermination Request 1” from the guild. This quest can also be completed in “First-Gen CPUs Sanctuary Dungeon”. The quest is to kill 10 Delinquent Cats
    • After completing “Histy’s Extermination Request 1” and turning it in, view the event that follows and accept “Histy’s Extermination Request 2” from the guild and head back to “Sakura Tree Row”. This quest requires you to kill 10 Red Dogoos.
    • After completing “Histy’s Extermination Request 2”, view the event that follows.
    • Last but not least, be sure you get your Share % to 60+. The easiest way to do this is by boosting “Public Relations” under “Investment” or by doing quests from the guild.
  • Noire, Blanc and Vert's Stories: Raise the Shares of their respective nations to at least 40% and watch each of their daydream events.

3rd arc: At one point in the final world map, there will be four events across the world map. Don't watch them.

True Ending: Do all of the Normal End requirements but this time actually watch the four events.

Will do^^

Thank you!

5 hours ago, Armagon said:

Encounter of Destiny is Godlike. One of things that makes Megadimension's OST so good is that for the first time in the mainline series, most of the songs are new. ReBirth trilogy (and the original trilogy by extension) kinda reused a lot of songs and these were good songs but there wasn't a whole lot of new songs.

Megadimension pretty much set the standard for the mainline series. We haven't gotten a mainline game since 2015 (not counting VIIR) but i like to believe that Compile Heart's hard at work making a new mainline game and the spin-offs are just there to keep us entertained.

Big agree. Very big, in fact. And I haven't even completed the thing yet.

----

Speaking of Neptunia and completing, I just completed what I would consider the hardest game I've ever experienced. Holy hell, nothing and I mean NOTHING you could have told me without spoiling the whole thing would have prepared me for the Conquest Route of Re;Birth 2. Now that off-hand joke about the CPU-killing sword in Re;Birth 1 is a LOT harsher...
I have to give it to the writers though: Everything in this route was written so damn well. And the voice acting just sold it completely.

You could actually feel the sadness in Nepgear and Neptune through their voices, and you could tell that by the end of it all, both were utterly broken. It was jarring, seeing the usually cheerful and joking Neptune struggling to even crack a single one-liner. And Nepgear... dear lord, poor Nepgear.


That last "Neptune has left" broke me. Only light in all of this: Nepgear finally killed off Underling for good. She should have done that a hell of a lot earlier.


Holy shit. I don't think I've ever experienced something quite like this since Xillia 2, which was the first game that made me legitimately cry. Props to you, Neptunia, props to you!
I think I get way too attached to fictional characters sometimes.
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27 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

I also wasn't trying to bash those games. Rather, it can be seen in a positive light, too. That going back to older games is harder when you've played the newer ones just means that the devs learned from their hypothetical mistakes and made many improvements to give the players a better experience. That's how I see it, at least.

Yeah, i see it that way too. There's a bit of an enlightning side in playing older games in a series.

A cool thing i do when playing older games is i like to imagine i'm playing the game when it came out. Doing this helps digest some of the more aged parts easier. And then when i take a look back at the game, i view it from both the viewpoint of "now" and the viewpoint of "then".

33 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Speaking of Neptunia and completing, I just completed what I would consider the hardest game I've ever experienced. Holy hell, nothing and I mean NOTHING you could have told me without spoiling the whole thing would have prepared me for the Conquest Route of Re;Birth 2.

Congratulations on completing the Neptunia Rite of Passage.

Spoiler

I don't plan on going through that a second time. I didn't think the Conquest route woule break my heart as much as it did. 

The Conquest route is one of the few times i've teared up playing a game but it's also probably the only time in a game where once was enough. It's an amazing route but while i'm able to experience sad moments on repeat playthroughs of other games, i don't think my heart would be able to handle Conquest a second time.

 

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man, playing some more Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance. E.P.IC.

But I don't think i can play more then 1Stage a day, my hands hurt xD

1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

Conquest Route of Re;Birth 2.

Oh boy. You finally experienced it, eh?

It also has some of the best battles in the Series, tough and hard to use the battle system to it's fullest. 

Not to mention it hits you hard in the feels, too.

I jokingly call it Nep of Steel because it reminds me way too much of Fate/Stay Night's Mind of Steel ending.

 

killing Underling is one of the most satisfying things to happen in my gaming life. Dear god, did she annoy me

1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

I think I get way too attached to fictional characters sometimes.

We all do, we all do.

@Armagon

There's a bit of an enlightning side in playing older games in a series.

A cool thing i do when playing older games is i like to imagine i'm playing the game when it came out. Doing this helps digest some of the more aged parts easier. And then when i take a look back at the game, i view it from both the viewpoint of "now" and the viewpoint of "then".

I do play alot old games as well. And the ones i like are usually good even by today's viewpoint imo (except graphically, but i mostly don'T care about that except if it's really really ugly, i still play SMB1 to this day haha). However those i don't like i feel even by standards of back then would've been meh to me as well, as i did like games from that time even today, without changing viewpoints.

Or some games just stand the test of time better

Edited by Shrimperor
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9 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

unresponsive and awkward controls are a dealbreaker for me in Action games. While i do prefer my action games be fast, i also don't mind them being slow as long as controlling characters is smooth, slick and responsive. ToV wasn'T any of those during combat. There's a huge delay before & after every action, not to mention alot of times the character doesn't do what i want (and i made sure to set it up to manual). Also, being locked to 2D in a 3D action game pissed me off, especially since in 3D mode/free roam i can't start a combo. Like why?  It feels less like an action game and more like a slow arcade fighting game. And from fighting games i only play smash tbh, and it's a pretty damn fast fighting game.

Ah, gotcha. I can agree it's a tad delayed, which can be annoying at times.

Also, I finally beat Super Neptunia, and wow... the final boss was... just wow. Overall, pretty fun, some things bothered me but it was enjoyable. Ended the game at level 64, not too bad.

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9 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

I also excluded Tonic Trouble from the list, because my memories of that game are so spotty I don't even remember if it fit the definitions I laid out

From what my limited memories of it say, I think it was just a plain old linear 3D platformer.

 

And I decided to watch LPs by the same very experienced player of both Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie. I see what you mean about the size of BT. If you know what you're doing, BK's worlds for the LP I watched could be completed within 20 minutes apiece, except for the last one. This could be the result of the "must collect all 100 Notes in one go" aspect. Or maybe just because it was Rare's first try at a Collectathon.

BT however, the only "fast" world was the first, if you know what you're doing. If you don't, I can see a lot more time being wasted and going back and forth. Albeit not as much as I'd think DK64 had, the game I've read as being the turning point against Collectathons. Maybe BK is too easy, too small, and too quick, but BT made getting Jiggies look drawn out. SMO was too generous with the Power Moons, but too generous I might prefer over too sparse.

I noticed that the charm in BT might have been lessened too. For instance, Kazooie and Banjo always traded words with Bottles when learning a new move. Jamjars just dictates the moves to you, no rapport with B&K. The lack of random Gruntilda rhymes throughout the game is another charm reduction.

A particular criticism of BT- those FPS segments. Ugh, I know you made the N64's great FPSes Rare, but did ya have to throw FPS in BT? Watching an LP set to double speed made the three segments (Mayahem, Glutch, Industries) look bewildering. They needed a map on the screen so you don't get lost.

The shark in BK still scares me all these years later. And what is it doing in Rusty Bucket Bay?

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And I decided to watch LPs by the same very experienced player of both Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie. I see what you mean about the size of BT. If you know what you're doing, BK's worlds for the LP I watched could be completed within 20 minutes apiece, except for the last one. This could be the result of the "must collect all 100 Notes in one go" aspect. Or maybe just because it was Rare's first try at a Collectathon.

BT however, the only "fast" world was the first, if you know what you're doing. If you don't, I can see a lot more time being wasted and going back and forth. Albeit not as much as I'd think DK64 had, the game I've read as being the turning point against Collectathons. Maybe BK is too easy, too small, and too quick, but BT made getting Jiggies look drawn out. 

Now that you mention it...I just popped in my DK64 cart and my 101% playthrough from back in March of this year clocks in at 24 hours. Compared to my playthrough of Tooie which was just under 25 hours when I nabbed the last collectible. Both playthroughs were the same level of blind where I had only ever seen the first three or so stages from previous attempts. And both playthroughs resorted almost entirely to guides in order to get everything in a reasonable time. I'm kind of shocked to see Tooie be the longer game.

An equally interesting metric would be how fast somebody could just reach the end of the game on their first playthrough. But Tooie requires 70/90 jiggies to face the final boss, while DK64 requires 100/201 Golden Bananas, plus the Nintendo and Rare Coins. Rare obviously knew their game was big so they went lax on the requirements where possible. Furthermore, if you are hungry for that 101%, the Banana medals that you earn for collecting each Kong's specific normal bananas is awarded when you collect 75/100 which also saves a lot of headache. I think just beating the game is much more reasonable in 64 than Tooie. since you need so much less of what is in the game. DK64's got some issues, but length isn't one of 'em it seems.

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I noticed that the charm in BT might have been lessened too. For instance, Kazooie and Banjo always traded words with Bottles when learning a new move. Jamjars just dictates the moves to you, no rapport with B&K. The lack of random Gruntilda rhymes throughout the game is another charm reduction.

Hey yeah, what was up with the Rhymes? She's got so little dialogue throughout the game I forgot. But now I remember she stopped rhyming because her sisters said it was stupid in the prologue. I wouldn't say the rhymes were genuinely funny, but it bugs me they'd trash on their own character like that. Just like in the opening of Banjo: Nuts and Bolts, they're just constantly making fun of our heroes for being fat and lazy and their game not appealing to modern markets. I AM the target audience for Banjo, why'd you think I bought that game, Rare? Quit making fun of me.

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A particular criticism of BT- those FPS segments. Ugh, I know you made the N64's great FPSes Rare, but did ya have to throw FPS in BT? Watching an LP set to double speed made the three segments (Mayahem, Glutch, Industries) look bewildering. They needed a map on the screen so you don't get lost.

I don't mean to brag, but I nailed all those segments on my first try except Grunty Industries. I guess my sense of direction rocks. I will say though an on-screen map would have been much appreciated since all you have to go on is listening for the enemies to know one is close by.

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10 hours ago, Armagon said:

Yeah, i see it that way too. There's a bit of an enlightning side in playing older games in a series.

A cool thing i do when playing older games is i like to imagine i'm playing the game when it came out. Doing this helps digest some of the more aged parts easier. And then when i take a look back at the game, i view it from both the viewpoint of "now" and the viewpoint of "then".

That's a good mindset to have, I think.

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

Congratulations on completing the Neptunia Rite of Passage.

  Reveal hidden contents

I don't plan on going through that a second time. I didn't think the Conquest route woule break my heart as much as it did. 

The Conquest route is one of the few times i've teared up playing a game but it's also probably the only time in a game where once was enough. It's an amazing route but while i'm able to experience sad moments on repeat playthroughs of other games, i don't think my heart would be able to handle Conquest a second time.

 

Same here. I don't think I want to go through that ever again.
Though I do wonder how that Holy Sword route goes... I don't think I'm done with Re;Birth 2 yet.

10 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

Oh boy. You finally experienced it, eh?

It also has some of the best battles in the Series, tough and hard to use the battle system to it's fullest. 

Not to mention it hits you hard in the feels, too.

I jokingly call it Nep of Steel because it reminds me way too much of Fate/Stay Night's Mind of Steel ending.

  Reveal hidden contents

killing Underling is one of the most satisfying things to happen in my gaming life. Dear god, did she annoy me

We all do, we all do.

Yup, I definitely agree to that. But like Armagon, it's still not something I want to experience again. I like the CPU characters way too much for that.

I'm just glad it didn't make me fight Neptune. But that made that particular scene all the more crushing.


Interestingly enough, the best boss battles in the Re;Birth games usually happen against the other CPUs. My favorite fight in the first Re;Birth was against Fake Purple Heart, and I was giddy when the fake CPUs appeared again in Re;Birth 3. Though the best boss battle in Re;Birth 2 is Nepgear and Uni vs. CFW Brave. In my opinion, at least.

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Sky 3rd feels so much different in multiple aspects than the LoH games I have played so far. 

It is definitely not a bad thing being a dungeon crawler, but I have to get used on the plot a little bit. 

That characters appeared from a cube kinda shocked me at the first moment, but I expect it will be explained very soon. 

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So i finished Ch.9 of Atelier Lulua. It actually took me longer than expected because i kinda had to grind to beat the boss of the chapter. She was challenging when i was underleveled, not because she was powerful, but because she does that thing i hate that a lot of ATB RPGs do. That thing where the enemy gets to attack twice during their turn. I hate it. One day devs will realize that that is not a good way to make something difficulty. It's just cheap. In the end, i grinding to Lv.60, so i was still underleveled (boss was 10 levels higher) but i filled out a shit ton of the Alchemyriddle and synthesized a bunch of shit so i had enough things to use on the boss. I also relied on Lulua's Atk and Speed AoE buffs and Ficus' everything AoE buffs. Oh, and Rorona's Special is busted. 

As for the boss itself

Spoiler

I can't believe Mana was a Xeno character this whole time. I'm kidding but her Machina of God form did remind me of a certain Coffee with Milk from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (the actual character is a spoiler so Xeno fans refer to her as "Coffee with Milk" in non-spoiler discussion because that's the analogy the main protagonist Rex came up with. It sounds weird but it makes sense in context). 

I wasn't really surprised she was hiding this form because earlier parts of the game and some events drop hints that Mana isn't human but it was a nice reveal.

What surprised me more was that Ficus is actually (Atelier Totori spoilers incoming)

Spoiler

Evil Eye, the final boss of Atelier Totori. Uhh, don't tell Piana. 

Ficus' character events also drop hints towards that but i guess they were more subtle.

Anyway, Rorona and Sterk's noticing of the name "Machina of God" makes me wonder if Mana, in that form, appeared in one of the Arland Trilogy games. I'll look it up when i'm done but it wouldn't surprise me if she was.

Anyway, i got everyone except Sterk to 100% Friendship. Sterk is kinda stuck at like 60-something friendship because i'm stuck on this one event where i gotta kill a dragon atop the Ster Highlands, except that dragon's like Lv.78 and i could beat if it didn't do that retarded-ass thing of "the enemy gets to attack twice during it's turn". If it didn't do that i can beat it just fine but nah, i gotta grind.

 

Edited by Armagon
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1 hour ago, Armagon said:

So i finished Ch.9 of Atelier Lulua. It actually took me longer than expected because i kinda had to grind to beat the boss of the chapter. She was challenging when i was underleveled, not because she was powerful, but because she does that thing i hate that a lot of ATB RPGs do. That thing where the enemy gets to attack twice during their turn. I hate it. One day devs will realize that that is not a good way to make something difficulty. It's just cheap. In the end, i grinding to Lv.60, so i was still underleveled (boss was 10 levels higher) but i filled out a shit ton of the Alchemyriddle and synthesized a bunch of shit so i had enough things to use on the boss. I also relied on Lulua's Atk and Speed AoE buffs and Ficus' everything AoE buffs. Oh, and Rorona's Special is busted. 

As for the boss itself

  Hide contents

I can't believe Mana was a Xeno character this whole time. I'm kidding but her Machina of God form did remind me of a certain Coffee with Milk from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (the actual character is a spoiler so Xeno fans refer to her as "Coffee with Milk" in non-spoiler discussion because that's the analogy the main protagonist Rex came up with. It sounds weird but it makes sense in context). 

I wasn't really surprised she was hiding this form because earlier parts of the game and some events drop hints that Mana isn't human but it was a nice reveal.

What surprised me more was that Ficus is actually (Atelier Totori spoilers incoming)

  Reveal hidden contents

Evil Eye, the final boss of Atelier Totori. Uhh, don't tell Piana. 

Ficus' character events also drop hints towards that but i guess they were more subtle.

Anyway, Rorona and Sterk's noticing of the name "Machina of God" makes me wonder if Mana, in that form, appeared in one of the Arland Trilogy games. I'll look it up when i'm done but it wouldn't surprise me if she was.

 

Bold: It was a necessity for me to beat the endgame bosses. And the reason I never once let Rorona out of my party once she got it.

As for the boss of Chapter 9:

 

I initially assumed Mana would be the final boss of the game after her cryptic dialogue at the beginning and her tendency to appear in weird places.


When I first saw her Machina of God form, I was like "hey, doesn't that kind of look like that girl from Neptunia that's in the thumbnail for the music you've been listening to?". And now that I've played Neptunia, the similarities became clearer. Mechanical angel? Check. Semi-fanservice-y outfit? Check. Oversized sword? Check. Mana is a CPU confirmed.

I'll put the information you wanted to look up in a seperate spoiler, in case you don't want to see it (about the Ch. 9 boss):

Apparently, Mana was the final superboss in Atelier Meruru. She even had the same battle theme. Here's a video I found (note that she looks vastly different here compared to her appearance in Lulua:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2oLKM-w0rg

 

Edited by DragonFlames
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7 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

And the reason I never once let Rorona out of my party once she got it.

There's like no reason to leave the Alchemists out of your party in general. The same applies to the other Arland games (well, Rorona kinda sucked in Atelier Meruru so you were at a detriment if you had her in your party since she dies in like one hit and hits like a noodle).

7 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

As for the boss of Chapter 9:

  Reveal hidden contents
Spoiler

I never thought she'd be the final boss. The game drops hints that she's hiding something but she never came across as a bad person. Especially with some scenes where it's clear she's looking out for Lulua.

And yeah, she definitely reminds me of the CPUs as well. 

 

7 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I'll put the information you wanted to look up in a seperate spoiler, in case you don't want to see it (about the Ch. 9 boss):
 

  Reveal hidden contents
Spoiler

So i was right. She did appear in an earlier game.

I'm curious as to what the decision was that led to Mana and Ficus being actual characters now as opposed to just being bosses in previous games. I'm not putting too much thought into it though. I've said this multiple times but Lulua has more actual plot than the Arland trilogy, so that just comes with the territory.

 

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On 7/8/2019 at 3:42 PM, Glennstavos said:

If I could find that game at a reasonable price I would. I watched an LP of it many years ago and it looked very fun, if a liiitttle mean with certain platforming sections.

I decided that since watching BK/T LPs was fun to watch one of this. A smaller, but still solid collectathon, not a 10/10, but an easy 7, maybe 8 if you like it. No bosses, thought Rocket's arsenal doesn't look suited for it and a tough platforming level is a fair replacement. Modern Mario has realized when combat ain't your forte, more platforming is better for the finale.

Never made it to the final two worlds. The Pyramid Scheme is disappointing aesthetically, the worlds before it looked better, and it just isn't creative at all. The Food Fright was a good idea, albeit I wish for more, I do of all the worlds.

Which brings me to something I've realized now. Playing SMO, I felt some worlds, even the bigger ones, seemed too small. For one, I wish New Donk City was bigger. But now seeing some old golden origin age collectathons again, I see things haven't changed that much. And given Banjo Tooie, size isn't all that matters after all. Wanting more because you love what you got, doesn't mean more would have actually been better in practice. Eyes bigger than the stomach should want to handle.

-I haven't watched the Spyros though, and I expect they'll be on the bigger side if a few memory fragments serve me right. I was considering maybe getting them on Switch release though.

19 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Now that you mention it...I just popped in my DK64 cart and my 101% playthrough from back in March of this year clocks in at 24 hours. Compared to my playthrough of Tooie which was just under 25 hours when I nabbed the last collectible. Both playthroughs were the same level of blind where I had only ever seen the first three or so stages from previous attempts. And both playthroughs resorted almost entirely to guides in order to get everything in a reasonable time. I'm kind of shocked to see Tooie be the longer game.

Same sense of surprise. For a knowing player, you have to only swap over to Mumbo once, maybe twice per level. And you only need Wumba once a level. On the other hand, you've five Kongs and five Golden Bananas each per level in DK64.

19 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

An equally interesting metric would be how fast somebody could just reach the end of the game on their first playthrough. But Tooie requires 70/90 jiggies to face the final boss, while DK64 requires 100/201 Golden Bananas, plus the Nintendo and Rare Coins. Rare obviously knew their game was big so they went lax on the requirements where possible. Furthermore, if you are hungry for that 101%, the Banana medals that you earn for collecting each Kong's specific normal bananas is awarded when you collect 75/100 which also saves a lot of headache. I think just beating the game is much more reasonable in 64 than Tooie. since you need so much less of what is in the game. DK64's got some issues, but length isn't one of 'em it seems.

Underlined- You'll have to add a three hours for not getting enough Battles Crowns and the Rareware and Nintendo Coins, despite completing the Hideout. Are there hints you have to do these before you get to that door?

Italicized- Doesn't that undermine the entire premise of 101%? Reminds me of a GameFAQs argument I saw once where someone said they had 100%ed A Link Between Worlds, but hadn't gotten the Giant Cucco. I mean I can understand leaving that and the Shadow Link battle challenges out of "100% speedrun", but at the same time, if you are truly in the most absolute sense a 100% master of the game, I don't think you could leave the Giant Cucco out.

Bolded- I'm reminded of the Crystal Caves Golden Banana where you need Chunky to smash through an ice wall near the entrance. And then you have Chunky in the level learn his Character Pad ability. You go back to the place where you smashed the wall, activate the Character Pad with Chunky, and shazam! The Golden Banana is right there in front of you.

I think I need to watch an LP of this game now.

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9 hours ago, Armagon said:

There's like no reason to leave the Alchemists out of your party in general. The same applies to the other Arland games (well, Rorona kinda sucked in Atelier Meruru so you were at a detriment if you had her in your party since she dies in like one hit and hits like a noodle).

True. Though I always used Piana in support. Her support skills are a lot better than what she could do on the frontlines. At least that's what I think.

9 hours ago, Armagon said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I never thought she'd be the final boss. The game drops hints that she's hiding something but she never came across as a bad person. Especially with some scenes where it's clear she's looking out for Lulua.

And yeah, she definitely reminds me of the CPUs as well. 

 

Good point. She also clearly cares about the other kids at the Orphanage as she shows after her initial appearances, so I didn't think she was evil at that point. My hunch that she would be the final boss actually vanished over time.

As for Megadimension Neptunia VII, I started on the next arc and I have a question: I selected Neptune's story. Will I play the other three stories as well, or is this something for other playthroughs and you only play one story at a time? Since they seem to happen at the same time, I'm assuming it's that, but I want to make sure.
Another thing that struck me as weird:

Neptune made friends with the girl that took Planeptune from her, B-Sha. The Gold Third don't appear to be villains after all. A weird twist, to be sure, but a pleasant one nonetheless. I am less thrilled that Arfoire and Warechu appear YET. AGAIN. At least their roles seem to be minor at best (though she really had no business being in the Zero Dimension story, if we're honest), so that's a plus.

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1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

Will I play the other three stories as well

You will

as for the Spoiler, everything will be explained in time, dw. Even the one thing you're annoyed with.

I've been playing more Metal Gear Rising: Revengeancand Fairy Fencer F: Advent Dark Force 

For the first one, i am getting my ass kicked pretty hard by some robots. Stop double teaming me damn it xD

and for the 2nd one... let's a do a check list, shall we?

I can see now why ''if you love Nep you'll this'' is a common opinion haha

And since i am staying home today, i could take a look at Tokyo Xanadu.

Edited by Shrimperor
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