Bloom Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Pegasi are sexist and only want females to ride them. Wyverns accept all sexes, you go wyverns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) Wyverns by far. They tend to focus on quality over quantity, with some of the best written characters from their respective games (like Haar, Jill, and Cormag). They also tend to be among the best units available, with Haar, Jill, and Camilla in particular being gamebreakers. And honestly, pegasus knights tend to be very samey. They tend to share similar design schemes across games and even within the same game. They tend to share the same few personality tropes. And they tend to be pretty one note characters. I'm a fan of Hinoka, Tana, Elincia, and Tanith, but most of the rest just don't do it for me. If you've seen one set of pegasus sisters, you've seen them all. (And wyverns are cooler than flying horses. That should be obvious.) Edited June 7, 2019 by Etheus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancingDanny Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 I like pegasi much better... The only wyvern knights I've had good luck with are Cormag and Camilla. For whatever reason, Pegasus knights do so much better for me. (Shoutouts to Tana, Florina, Caeda, and Marcia) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSSKG151 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Tough call as I like both the Pegasus and Wyvern classes several characters I like tend to be from one of those two classes (sometimes both). I voted for Wyverns though since I tend to find them more useful in the FE games I played besides Awakening (because of Galeforce and Pair Up) and Echoes (where Wyverns are not a playable class). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Bloom said: Pegasi are sexist and only want females to ride them. Not anymore. Subaki and Shigure would like to have a word with you. Though I'm not sure if this will actually become a trend... I kinda hope it does, because really, the most famous person to ride a Pegasus was a dude! Hercules. Come on, IS. There's nothing wrong with making a few more male Pegasus riders. Edited June 7, 2019 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloom Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 24 minutes ago, Anacybele said: Not anymore. Subaki and Shigure would like to have a word with you. Though I'm not sure if this will actually become a trend... I kinda hope it does, because really, the most famous person to ride a Pegasus was a dude! Hercules. Come on, IS. There's nothing wrong with making a few more male Pegasus riders. It's already been confirmed in FE3H, it will be female only again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, Bloom said: It's already been confirmed in FE3H, it will be female only again. Proof? I've not seen any indication of this. But if it is true, that's stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir of Dragons and Beasts Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Anacybele said: Proof? I've not seen any indication of this. But if it is true, that's stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, AzuraxCorrin(M)4Life said: I cannot read Japanese. All I see here is a female Peg knight that doesn't tell me there aren't also males. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir of Dragons and Beasts Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Anacybele said: I cannot read Japanese. All I see here is a female Peg knight that doesn't tell me there aren't also males. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, AzuraxCorrin(M)4Life said: Thank you. Though like I said, it's still stupid. But at least they finally gave them their swords back. Giving them staves in Awakening and Fates was such a shitty idea. None of them had very good magic stats, so it was useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 I take it this refers to the riding aspect; and not so much the animals themselves. In that case... griffons, totally griffons. They're not on the list? Well, in that case, I'm going to wyverns/dragons. Mostly just becaue I think the concept of riding a wyvern or dragon to be cooler than riding a winged horse. I don't particularly care for the riders, or their gameplay performances, and stuff like that, when it comes to deciding this. 50 minutes ago, Anacybele said: Not anymore. Subaki and Shigure would like to have a word with you. Though I'm not sure if this will actually become a trend... I kinda hope it does, because really, the most famous person to ride a Pegasus was a dude! Hercules. Come on, IS. There's nothing wrong with making a few more male Pegasus riders. Just for the record, don't pay much attention to Disney, or any other contemporary work that depicts Hercules riding Pegasus. He never did. The actual rider was Bellerophon. Winged horses exist in many ancient and semi-ancient mythologies, which includes plenty of women riders. For a Greek example, we have goddess Eos. For another example, there's the nordic Valkyries. For an actual famous man who rode a winged horse, we have Prophet Muhammad. The point is, there is no definite nature for the characteristic of the winged horse. IS have made their version, like how many ancient civilizations have theirs. It's okay if you don't agree with them. Though calling it stupid may be crossing a line. They aren't the only ones with their own version of the winged horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said: Just for the record, don't pay much attention to Disney, or any other contemporary work that depicts Hercules riding Pegasus. He never did. The actual rider was Bellerophon. I wasn't even talking about Disney, I thought I'd read in actual mythology that Hercules rode Pegasus. But isn't Bellerophon still a guy? So either way, in certain mythology, guys did ride Pegasi. So IS just went and made them sexist for really no reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Anacybele said: I wasn't even talking about Disney, I thought I'd read in actual mythology that Hercules rode Pegasus. But isn't Bellerophon still a guy? So either way, in certain mythology, guys did ride Pegasi. So IS just went and made them sexist for really no reason. Just covering my bases. Exactly, in "certain", not in everything. Each mythology is different from each other. Furthermore, IS is not obliged to follow them. After all, FE as a whole doesn't take place in anything pertaining to our actual Earth, outside of TMS. There is a reason. One they don't see or feel the need to be told; but it's more likely to be one than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said: Just covering my bases. Exactly, in "certain", not in everything. Each mythology is different from each other. Furthermore, IS is not obliged to follow them. After all, FE as a whole doesn't take place in anything pertaining to our actual Earth, outside of TMS. There is a reason. One they don't see or feel the need to be told; but it's more likely to be one than not. No, but due to those mythology situations, I'd like to see more male Pegasus riders. Granted, none of my FE OCs are one, but that's because they all either belong to the Tellius world or Awakening world, neither of which canonically have them. If I created another fan FE verse that wasn't connected to any of the others sans Fates, I'd totally make a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Anacybele said: Thank you. Though like I said, it's still stupid. But at least they finally gave them their swords back. Giving them staves in Awakening and Fates was such a shitty idea. None of them had very good magic stats, so it was useless. I disagree - I never thought "I wish Falcoknights had swords again" in Awakening or Fates, largely because I never really saw it do much for them in practice (Blazing Blade and Sacred Stones are both lance-heavy, and in those and most other games, swords aren't a very good weapon type). Edited June 7, 2019 by Shadow Mir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFlames Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 18 hours ago, Shadow Mir said: I disagree - I never thought "I wish Falcoknights had swords again" in Awakening or Fates, largely because I never really saw it do much for them in practice (Blazing Blade and Sacred Stones are both lance-heavy, and in those and most other games, swords aren't a very good weapon type). Same here, actually. The only thing I thought about them is "I hope they're finally useful for SOMETHING other than being arrow-fodder". Awakening fulfilled those hopes, Fates... didn't. I'd even go so far as to say that Fates' Pegasus Knight incarnation is the worst they've ever been. Then again, I'm one of the few FE players who think people tend to put too much stock in the movement stat, especially when it comes to Fates, where blindly charging into enemy ranks has never turned out to be a good idea. I also suck at these games. I'd like to think the two aren't connected, but I could very well be wrong on that front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanni20 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 In genealogy the swords were useful as hell, considering how ass literally every other weapon type in the game that wasn't Wind was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flere210 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 8 hours ago, DragonFlames said: .Then again, I'm one of the few FE players who think people tend to put too much stock in the movement stat, especially when it comes to Fates, where blindly charging into enemy ranks has never turned out to be a good idea. I also suck at these games. I'd like to think the two aren't connected, but I could very well be wrong on that front. It's not that they put too much stock into it, is that peoplerate unita based on how fast you can clear the game with them. Marcia is a good example. If took at base, she is an unimpressive combat unit. However, the mere fact that she is a flier means she could theoretically save turn if she can kill stuff, so the best strategy becames "find a way so Marcia can kill the red units" and she became entitled to an absurd amount of favoritism(dumping all your bexp on her) because she is the first flier and no one can replicate what she does. As long as a flier has even remotely salvageble combat stats, it automatically became better than an infranty unit with godlike stats. As for the topic, WK were my favorite class for a lot of time, but when i started realizing how fucked up FE class balance really is, i am starting to hate them because their stat spread is stupid as hell. Why in the name of Seiros knights pay an arm and a leg for their high defense and this guys are as tanky as them, but also get decent speed and godlike movement? I can think of a single "bad" wyvern knight in the whole history of Fire Emblem, wich is Eda in thracia 776, and even she is not really terrible, just mhe and unnecessary because the games give you way better fliers. At least paladins have the Akabeia bad ones like Roshea, and PK have some gals that require the aforementioned favoritism to really be good, wyverns are just broken lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 2 hours ago, fiver said: In genealogy the swords were useful as hell, considering how ass literally every other weapon type in the game that wasn't Wind was. Okay, now name a more recent game where swords were actually good. Because naming the most unbalanced game in the series by far doesn't really convince me that swords on pegasus knights was useful. 10 hours ago, DragonFlames said: Same here, actually. The only thing I thought about them is "I hope they're finally useful for SOMETHING other than being arrow-fodder". Awakening fulfilled those hopes, Fates... didn't. I'd even go so far as to say that Fates' Pegasus Knight incarnation is the worst they've ever been. Then again, I'm one of the few FE players who think people tend to put too much stock in the movement stat, especially when it comes to Fates, where blindly charging into enemy ranks has never turned out to be a good idea. I also suck at these games. I'd like to think the two aren't connected, but I could very well be wrong on that front. Personally, I find it harder to invest in wyvern units for the most part since they're generally not that much better than a trained pegasus knight as to justify the extra work. Which isn't helped by the fact that they tend to join much later. The only games where I would say pegasi got the short end of the stick were Fates, Radiant Dawn, and Binding Blade, and even in those games, it's only one of the wyverns you get that's really good. 1 hour ago, Flere210 said: It's not that they put too much stock into it, is that peoplerate unita based on how fast you can clear the game with them. Marcia is a good example. If took at base, she is an unimpressive combat unit. However, the mere fact that she is a flier means she could theoretically save turn if she can kill stuff, so the best strategy becames "find a way so Marcia can kill the red units" and she became entitled to an absurd amount of favoritism(dumping all your bexp on her) because she is the first flier and no one can replicate what she does. As long as a flier has even remotely salvageble combat stats, it automatically became better than an infranty unit with godlike stats. As for the topic, WK were my favorite class for a lot of time, but when i started realizing how fucked up FE class balance really is, i am starting to hate them because their stat spread is stupid as hell. Why in the name of Seiros knights pay an arm and a leg for their high defense and this guys are as tanky as them, but also get decent speed and godlike movement? I can think of a single "bad" wyvern knight in the whole history of Fire Emblem, wich is Eda in thracia 776, and even she is not really terrible, just mhe and unnecessary because the games give you way better fliers. At least paladins have the Akabeia bad ones like Roshea, and PK have some gals that require the aforementioned favoritism to really be good, wyverns are just broken lol. I would add Zeiss to that on account of the unholy combination of coming late and underleveled. Also, imho, only one of the wyvern promotions tends to be good in games with branched promotions (Case in point: Fates. You won't see me recommending Malig Knight any time soon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeManaphy Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) I prefer Pegasi simply because I enjoy Pegasi a lot more than wyverns. Maybe the reason for the divide comes from the fact that Pegasus based classes were locked to women until very recently, and its unconfirmed that 3 houses will keep the classes unisex. EDIT: Didn't see the top post LOL. What a pity though. I'm starting to wonder the only reason they were unisex in Fates was due to the class split being based off paths, so it would be very difficult to share classes if they were gender locked. Edited June 9, 2019 by ZeManaphy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFlames Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Flere210 said: It's not that they put too much stock into it, is that peoplerate unita based on how fast you can clear the game with them. Marcia is a good example. If took at base, she is an unimpressive combat unit. However, the mere fact that she is a flier means she could theoretically save turn if she can kill stuff, so the best strategy becames "find a way so Marcia can kill the red units" and she became entitled to an absurd amount of favoritism(dumping all your bexp on her) because she is the first flier and no one can replicate what she does. As long as a flier has even remotely salvageble combat stats, it automatically became better than an infranty unit with godlike stats. I get that. Then again, needing a lot of favoritism to be good is an argument I always assumed "pro" players tend to sneer at (see the Est archetype), since any unit can be good if you show them favoritism. To me, Marcia's killing ability is iffy at best and her growths are shaky enough that you'll need to rig a few strength procs to make her worthwhile. I've played PoR a lot on many difficulties and I can't recall a single time where Marcia wasn't a total liability more than anything else. Which is a shame because I genuinely like her character. I do get the whole efficiency argument, I really, really do. I guess my big question is what good does high movement do when a unit doesn't have the stats to support it? Which is sadly almost all of them? But as I've stated plenty of times before: I suck at these games, so of what worth are my questions, really? None, that's what. 2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said: Personally, I find it harder to invest in wyvern units for the most part since they're generally not that much better than a trained pegasus knight as to justify the extra work. Which isn't helped by the fact that they tend to join much later. The only games where I would say pegasi got the short end of the stick were Fates, Radiant Dawn, and Binding Blade, and even in those games, it's only one of the wyverns you get that's really good. A good point, actually. Though you could make a case for PoR as being one of the games pegasi got shafted, since I'd consider neither Marcia nor Tanith "good". Tanith's only advantage is that she can summon cannon fodder to take some pressure away from your units. Then again, neither are Jill and Haar in that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flere210 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 32 minutes ago, DragonFlames said: I get that. Then again, needing a lot of favoritism to be good is an argument I always assumed "pro" players tend to sneer at (see the Est archetype), since any unit can be good if you show them favoritism. To me, Marcia's killing ability is iffy at best and her growths are shaky enough that you'll need to rig a few strength procs to make her worthwhile. I've played PoR a lot on many difficulties and I can't recall a single time where Marcia wasn't a total liability more than anything else. Which is a shame because I genuinely like her character. I do get the whole efficiency argument, I really, really do. I guess my big question is what good does high movement do when a unit doesn't have the stats to support it? Which is sadly almost all of them? But as I've stated plenty of times before: I suck at these games, so of what worth are my questions, really? None, that's what. To put it simply. Est does not save turns, Marcia does. Pro player does not define favoritism as simply giving resource to an unit, but as diverging from the "optimal" path for the sake of an unit. As any unit can be good, the trick is to forcibly turn good the units with most movement. Usually you can increase stats more easily than you can increase movement(boots and promotions are usually the only options), and you can increase the movement of fliers and cavaliers as easily as you can increase the movement of infranty. Unless a pegasus knight start with 10 base hp,1 base strenght and 0 base defense, they will always be good(hell, people will likely forge an uber weapon and still use that pegasus knight lol.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFlames Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 13 hours ago, Flere210 said: To put it simply. Est does not save turns, Marcia does. Pro player does not define favoritism as simply giving resource to an unit, but as diverging from the "optimal" path for the sake of an unit. As any unit can be good, the trick is to forcibly turn good the units with most movement. Usually you can increase stats more easily than you can increase movement(boots and promotions are usually the only options), and you can increase the movement of fliers and cavaliers as easily as you can increase the movement of infranty. Unless a pegasus knight start with 10 base hp,1 base strenght and 0 base defense, they will always be good(hell, people will likely forge an uber weapon and still use that pegasus knight lol.) I understand. Thank you for explaining. I do still think Marcia's bases are terrible and she doesn't improve much even with investment, but that's just me, I guess. She'll also still get murdered by arrows and wind magic, both of which are deceptively common in PoR, especially when promoted enemies start showing up, so her high movement - again - gets compromised. I'm usually someone who likes to play as risk-free as possible while still having a good enough challenge to overcome (hence my unwillingness to use purposefully OP units like Ryoma or Seth), and I also like to take things slowly, which is probably why high movement isn't as important to me as it is to someone who likes to finish these games with the lowest turn count possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, DragonFlames said: I do still think Marcia's bases are terrible and she doesn't improve much even with investment, but that's just me, I guess. She'll also still get murdered by arrows and wind magic, both of which are deceptively common in PoR, especially when promoted enemies start showing up, so her high movement - again - gets compromised. The effective bonus in PoR is only 2x, meaning wind magic isn't even that threatening (we're talking about a game where the top ranked wind spell only has the might of an iron bow). Bows might be a problem, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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