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Von Ithipathachai

Serenes Forest Emblem (Proof of Concept)

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I want to say the purpose of Jeigan is to kill troublesome foes and to tank hits your normal units cannot handle.

The "noob trap" is actively using Jeigan to kill everything with their Silver Weapons, as the "kill EXP" is desired by other units since Jeigan have poor EXP gain. The punishment here is the EXP loss and the durability loss on the Silver Weapon.

"Veterans" know to converse the silver weaponry and simply use the Jeigan to weaken enemy foes, if the Jeigan is used at all.
- - - - -
Then there's the distinction between the different types of Jeigans, such as those becoming essentially useless after early-game (the orignal Jeigan), and those who remain useful throughout (such as Seth, Titania, and Frederick). Current usage of Jeigan seems to refer more of the latter though.

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Wow, SRPG studio must be pretty nifty if you were able to throw this together so quickly.

  • Not sure if it's realistically possible, but keybinding would be nice.
  • I don't like chance-based skills in general, but yeah, putting Bane on a Jagen is probably not a good idea. In RD it won't trigger if a normal attack will kill, and if it works the same here the skill would be fine on a different unit.
  • For the full game, what are you looking at as far as custom sprites, animations, music, etc? I assume the portraits are all just placeholders for now.

All I can think of for the time being.

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10 minutes ago, Sire said:

Then there's the distinction between the different types of Jeigans, such as those becoming essentially useless after early-game (the orignal Jeigan), and those who remain useful throughout (such as Seth, Titania, and Frederick). Current usage of Jeigan seems to refer more of the latter though.

The ones who remain useful throughout are usually referred to as Oifeys (after Oifey from Genealogy of the Holy War).  I'm also tempted to lump Dagdar in with those because if I remember correctly, his longevity as a useful unit in Thracia 776 is still pretty high despite his low growth rates.

EDIT: @Florete, I think if you open up the game's configuration settings file, you can change what key does what.

Only certain class and spell animations are going to be custom, along with the GBA-style portraits.

Edited by Von Ithipathachai

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So, this is neat, minus the fact that I'm using my mouse which is kinda weird for me.

But, uh...

Avoid +10

Hit +10

Critical +15

Why are they Stars of David?

Like, there's actually a lot of Stars of David in this, given how short it is.

1 minute ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

The ones who remain useful throughout are usually referred to as Oifeys (after Oifey from Genealogy of the Holy War).  I'm also tempted to lump Dagdar in with those because if I remember correctly, his longevity as a useful unit in Thracia 776 is still pretty high despite his low growth rates.

My personal recommendation is for a magic jeigan to retain staff utility even as combat utility wears off, but maybe that's just me.

Dagdar was pretty useful in Dondon's Thracia run, as I recall.

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3 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

EDIT: @Florete, I think if you open up the game's configuration settings file, you can change what key does what.

Oh. Cool. Never mind that part then.

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9 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

So, this is neat, minus the fact that I'm using my mouse which is kinda weird for me.

But, uh...

Avoid +10

Hit +10

Critical +15

Why are they Stars of David?

Like, there's actually a lot of Stars of David in this, given how short it is.

I couldn't find anything better.

10 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

My personal recommendation is for a magic jeigan to retain staff utility even as combat utility wears off, but maybe that's just me.

That's exactly what Rezzy is supposed to be.  She has a D Rank in Anima and a C Rank in Staves, allowing her to use Physic at base.  In fact, she even comes with a Physic staff in her inventory.

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1 minute ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

That's exactly what Rezzy is supposed to be.  She has a D Rank in Anima and a C Rank in Staves, allowing her to use Physic at base.  In fact, she even comes with a Physic staff in her inventory.

Very good thinking.

You'll also have to forgive me if I miss anything like that, because I have literally no prior SRPG experience and I actually haven't quite figured out how to check weapon ranks yet.

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Just now, AnonymousSpeed said:

Very good thinking.

You'll also have to forgive me if I miss anything like that, because I have literally no prior SRPG experience and I actually haven't quite figured out how to check weapon ranks yet.

Oh, sorry.  You toggle between pages of the Unit Menu with the Left and Right arrow keys.

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Well, that's a surprise for me! This is the last thing I was expecting today, but it doesn't matter.

I'm going to play it now and make my thoughts later. Thanks in advance, everyone involved.

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2 minutes ago, BergelomeuSantos said:

Well, that's a surprise for me! This is the last thing I was expecting today, but it doesn't matter.

I'm going to play it now and make my thoughts later. Thanks in advance, everyone involved.

You're welcome.

By the way, didn't you use to have an avatar that was a GBA-style Bartre splice?  Maybe if you could fish that out I could put it to good use.

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34 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

The ones who remain useful throughout are usually referred to as Oifeys (after Oifey from Genealogy of the Holy War).  I'm also tempted to lump Dagdar in with those because if I remember correctly, his longevity as a useful unit in Thracia 776 is still pretty high despite his low growth rates.

Yeah, I know the term Oifey, but it seems "Jeigan" is used as a catch-all term these days instead of differentiating the two. (or I'm just blind.)
- - - - -
On a different note, will the proof of concept be refined somewhat further, or will progress be transferred to the main project once more groundwork is done?

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4 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

You're welcome.

By the way, didn't you use to have an avatar that was a GBA-style Bartre splice?  Maybe if you could fish that out I could put it to good use.

Oh, you remember that? Well, sure I can make it again/make another one. It follows the same idea of a GBA-Sprite (but without ''expressions''), right?

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1 minute ago, BergelomeuSantos said:

Oh, you remember that? Well, sure I can make it again/make another one. It follows the same idea of a GBA-Sprite (but without ''expressions''), right?

No blinking or talking frames needed.

EDIT: @Sire, progress will probably be transferred to the main project once more ground work is done.

Edited by Von Ithipathachai

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4 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

No blinking or talking frames needed.

Ok. I'll get it done by tomorrow.

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11 minutes ago, Sire said:

Yeah, I know the term Oifey, but it seems "Jeigan" is used as a catch-all term these days instead of differentiating the two. (or I'm just blind.)

Depends on who you ask, but it really needs to be this way because when you start trying to create new archetypes Jagen ends up being the only Jagen. I've seen people try to create different rules as well to separate other Jagens, like saying they have to be a Paladin so characters like Eyvel and Sothe don't fit, or that Seth and Titania don't even fit the Oifey distinction since they have good growths.

Let's all just leave it at "Jagen," the strong early unit.

Edited by Florete

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Hey, I was glancing at how to make me Jeigan, and a few thoughts I had. @Joshii@Von Ithipathachai

Give Rezzy a prf tome that always leaves 1HP.  (If programming the "Mercy" skill on a weapon isn't too hard.)  They way I can wield a normal weapon when I need to kill, but can also weaken, if needed.  An alternate would just be giving me a tome with 1 might along with a normal tome in my inventory, the equivalent of having both an iron and silver weapon in the inventory.

Edited by Rezzy

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this was pretty fun to go through, I am excited to see how the main game will go over, but I really think the animations are much too fast and the framerate feels weird, the map is good, but the battle animations need work, I do think that reconsidering custom sprite animations would be beneficial in the end, I am certain that you could find people on the forums willing to help with that one.

but that aside, nice to see manaketes as kaga intended them, fierce when shifted, but less so when not, I may be inclined to agree with others that reducing the turns shifted may be necessary, but that may not be quite the same as effective weapons, I think that it should be left on the board, but other options may want to be considered first, also, for the shifter effective weapons, I think making them have minimal effect on unshifted units and units who lack the weakness could be interesting. Fates daggers are great, 2-3 range bows are how I have always felt they should be at base to differentiate them from magic and daggers while keeping them distance only.

I guess I'll conclude with, TFW you are the most borderline broken unit in the game, if you think nerfs are necessary, I recommend atk, though we'll see just how these stats fare in the full game.

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32 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Oh, sorry.  You toggle between pages of the Unit Menu with the Left and Right arrow keys.

I feel like I should have known that, considering that's literally how FE does it. I shoulda had a V8.

***

I personally like having subcategories to distinguish between Jeigans who are good throughout the whole game and Jeigans who fall off after the earlier sections. As far as I can tell, "Oifey" has fallen out of use as more and more Jeigans retain long term usability, while traditional Jeigans are referred to as "actual Jeigans" or "traditional Jeigans" or, you know, some variant there of.

***

By the way, @Von Ithipathachai, is there a way to make the official game not have Esc close the game? I don't know if it's just me but I closed the game like 3 times on accident.

I'm really glad that my brilliant boss quote made the cut. Pengaius definitely gave me a scare, I forgot that he moved and that killer bow, oof, now that requires some Mekkkah tactics. I do wonder if the enemies are a little too aggressive, I got by just fine but I expect first chapters to be kinda easy. I say that acknowledging that this is not a real "first chapter."

also don't get why you gave the best dialogue to the hardest house to get to. Put your best foot forward man!

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3 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I'm really glad that my brilliant boss quote made the cut. Pengaius definitely gave me a scare, I forgot that he moved and that killer bow, oof, now that requires some Mekkkah tactics. I do wonder if the enemies are a little too aggressive, I got by just fine but I expect first chapters to be kinda easy. I say that acknowledging that this is not a real "first chapter."

also don't get why you gave the best dialogue to the hardest house to get to. Put your best foot forward man!

That boss quote was great, I was already primed to know that it was coming, but it still made me crack up when I saw it in action.

This reminded me though, enemy AI is weird sometimes, I am happy that ganging up isn't as much a problem, but these guys have odd priorities sometimes, like that one thief who just decided to walk off to the right behind the north wall, despite no incentive to go there.

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I've have to give this a try when I have time this weekend.

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36 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

By the way, @Von Ithipathachai, is there a way to make the official game not have Esc close the game? I don't know if it's just me but I closed the game like 3 times on accident.

I'm really glad that my brilliant boss quote made the cut. Pengaius definitely gave me a scare, I forgot that he moved and that killer bow, oof, now that requires some Mekkkah tactics. I do wonder if the enemies are a little too aggressive, I got by just fine but I expect first chapters to be kinda easy. I say that acknowledging that this is not a real "first chapter."

also don't get why you gave the best dialogue to the hardest house to get to. Put your best foot forward man!

Again, you should be able to open up the game's configuration settings file and change the EXIT key to literally anything else.  I'm wondering if I should start shipping my releases out with this stuff pre-changed.

???  Are you referring to the Sanctaea Chronicles joke plug?

23 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

This reminded me though, enemy AI is weird sometimes, I am happy that ganging up isn't as much a problem, but these guys have odd priorities sometimes, like that one thief who just decided to walk off to the right behind the north wall, despite no incentive to go there.

Would that be the Thief that started off to the north?  He may have been trying to find an alternate path to ransack the northern House.

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Just now, Von Ithipathachai said:

???  Are you referring to the Sanctaea Chronicles joke plug?

Yeah. I thought it was funny and really added to the tone of the game.

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2 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I'm also tempted to lump Dagdar in with those because if I remember correctly, his longevity as a useful unit in Thracia 776 is still pretty high despite his low growth rates.

So far he's proven quite useful, and I just cleared the not-as-threatening-as-I-thought-it'd-be Chapter 14. Halvan and Orsin have surpassed him offensively, but his bases + Accost have kept him very much afloat. To compare:

  • Only Galzus the Gotoh has a higher base HP and Str than Dagdar.
  • Only Dean (only outdoors while mounted), Conomore, Xavier, and Galzus have higher base Def- all of those come very late. Oh, and Dalsin has 1 more point too, not bad for the Manster arc. But Dalsin is horrendously slow to start, and has the Armor weakness.
  • 11 Base Skl isn't the highest, but still pretty good.
  • 9 Spd could be a lot better, but few of the weapons he wields can weigh him down. Enemies haven't been too fast either, nothing has really menacingly been able to double him. Accost means he can get thwacked more, but as I said he is very bulky and usually benefits from it, for it enables him to ORKO.
  • Luck is low, but he isn't a bad choice for the Luck Ring. And a Scroll regardless of what it gives will mitigate all non-Wrath crits.
  • Nonexistent Mag is universal for physical units not Ronan, Nanna, Amalda, Karin and Misha.
  • His 15 Con makes him great for Capturing most enemies. 

 

1 hour ago, Florete said:

Depends on who you ask, but it really needs to be this way because when you start trying to create new archetypes Jagen ends up being the only Jagen. I've seen people try to create different rules as well to separate other Jagens, like saying they have to be a Paladin so characters like Eyvel and Sothe don't fit, or that Seth and Titania don't even fit the Oifey distinction since they have good growths.

Let's all just leave it at "Jagen," the strong early unit.

Agreed, the Oifey distinction is meaningless, particularly since there aren't that many  "stops being useful outright" Jagens: 

  1. Jagen
  2. Arran
  3. Eyvel
  4. FE6 Marcus
  5. Zelot

And even Jagen doesn't really belong here with brokenly powerful statboosters in 1&3 to salvage him there, and forged effective pokey sticks and smashy mallets in SD.

I'm not counting Gunter, because he is never good even at the start. He is no better than Corrin in the two pre-BoF chapters you get with him, and is useless once reobtained on Rev. His primary use once returned is as Corrin's DS battery pack. Although I hear investing in his wide and easy access to level 15 skills can make this statless prune actually useful as a unit in himself. 

So a list of 'Oifeys':

  1. Oifey
  2. Dagdar
  3. FE7 Marcus (thanks pitifully weak enemies!)
  4. Seth-Ra
  5. Babylonian Sea Fairy Queen
  6. Sooooo–oooothe!
  7. Frederick not of Prussia
  8. Maybe Jakob counts? Or Reina?

The number of "Oifeys" at this point is outstripping the number of this older type.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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1 hour ago, Rezzy said:

Give Rezzy a prf tome that always leaves 1HP.  (If programming the "Mercy" skill on a weapon isn't too hard.)  They way I can wield a normal weapon when I need to kill, but can also weaken, if needed.  An alternate would just be giving me a tome with 1 might along with a normal tome in my inventory, the equivalent of having both an iron and silver weapon in the inventory.

The closest thing to giving a weapon the Mercy Skill that I think you can do natively in SRPG Studio is make every hit reduce a target's HP to 1 and deal no damage if its HP is already at 1, i.e. the Hel tome in FE4.  That could be very broken against boss enemies.

I may end up going with the 1 Mt tome idea.  I'll have to think about it some more.

Edited by Von Ithipathachai

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Edit: Something..strange happened to my post. You can ignore this.

 

Edited by BergelomeuSantos

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