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Armagon

You can only transfer Pokemon to Sword and Shield if they exist in the Galar Dex.

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1 minute ago, Glennstavos said:

Sun and Moon at launch excluded 501 pokemon and most of the mega evolutions.

The difference between Sun and Moon (and X and Y) and Sword and Shield in this scenario is that the former two still had those excluded Pokemon in. Hell, even Black and White, which pushed a "no Pokemon from previous Gens" thing, still had all the Pokemon of the time coded in.

By the sounds of it, Sword and Shield don't. They can be added in later, sure, but if it does, it might take a longer while.

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I understand why this is happening, but it does kinda bum me out, even though I haven't really done much collecting or transferring of Pokemon. But still, this makes me think that I won't be able to find a bunch of Pokemon that I was SUPER excited to see on home console, like the Totodile line, so I can't help but be disappointed.

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I think one of the big problems is that, it feels incomplete this way, if left with those Pokémon blocked. The rest of the games all had them, and this just feels like an outlier.

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9 hours ago, Water Mage said:

Do you know how companies even work? 

It's a myth that if the problem is "it's a lot of work that has to be done fast" you can just "add more people", because people need to be trained, you create more overhead in communicating, everything has to work together cohesively, etc.

There's diminishing returns for every person added and again the more people you hire the more overhead it creates. You need to spend more and more time communicating, making sure everyone understands, all stuff is cohesive and so on.

It’s true. I’m not entirely sure how the company works but I can’t imagine them actually needing to hire so many people that it would significantly eat into their budget.

Especially since it’s just importing the same models and animations they’ve been using for almost 6 years now.

4 hours ago, Silverly said:

We’re now not too far off to getting near 1,000 Pokémon, and unless you’ve been stockpiling every Pokémon up to that point (which in that good for you I guess) then it’s just going to be obscenely tedious.

There’s nothing really tedious about it though because people aren’t necessarily complaining about catching them all. They’re complaining about not being able to transfer pokemon they’ve already caught and raised. A lot of people simply have pokemon that they’ve grown attached and had for multiple generations now and would like to transfer their favorites into the game.

4 hours ago, Silverly said:

Best case scenario it’s just the legendaries/mythics with some excluded starters and several junkmons few will miss. Worst case... maybe 100-200 will be excluded?

Your best case scenario would still be an atrocious one. Starters and legendaries/mythics are like the most popular pokemons there are. Loads of people would be beyond upset. Not to mention, there’s no point in only excluding a handful of pokemon.

And your worst case is far from worst case. Like Glennstavos already mentioned, the biggest regional dex was Kalos’s with 450 pokemon. That would still exclude about half of all pokemon. But in all likelihood the new pokedex probably won’t even reach the number of pokemon that Kalos had in its regional dex because that was truly ridiculously large. Most only have somewhere between 150 - 200 pokemon in their regional which would exclude somewhere between 78% - 84% of all pokemon (assuming that Galar brings the total number somewhere around 900) Now that would truly be something that could be considered worst case scenario.

Edited by NegativeExponents-
I messed up the percentage

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I heard the news as soon as it was announced and honestly?

Don't care.

I never transferred pokemon into other gens anyway because I prefer trying out the new ones. I'll still be getting Sword as my biggest issue right now is Dynamaxing and raid battles and those are little issues in the long run.

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I care. I transferred some favorite shinies and other Pokemon in XY. I didn't transfer any in SM or USUM, but I wanted to transfer some in Sword/Shield because of the new Pokemon Home thing.

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Okay I was being quiet on the topic, but on seeing another #BringBackNationalDex post on my twitter... I kinda got mad.
 

Spoiler

 

If you're going to let this one absence of a feature affect your enjoyment of an entire game... I don't know what to say to you, that's fucking messed up.

So what if you can't transfer years of memories to this new game, or you can't catch em all if they can't be transfered in, or whatever other reason you have to not like this? Just fucking play the old games. Fuck, I know that can be said about any number of things that have disappeared over the years (walking pokemon, Battle Frontier, the Pokeathalon), and sure the old games are hard as hell to reacquire these days (if not pricey to reacquire), but if you're going to boycott a new game, which being prime Nintendo content will mean it's gonna run ya $60 USD, hey look you have the money to buy that old game and maybe even a very old GBA or NDS/3DS.

Please tell me what the hell is so precious about having your pokemon from older games be in Galar? It's not like I'm not being unaffected either, I have so many pokemon I dumped so many hours breeding that'll just be wasted once the new competitive scene is established. I have plenty of my older pokemon who I have memories of using on my original runs of my games, or Nuzlockes. Crap, I'm probably not going to be able to use my shiny Galvantula that I love so much. But so freaking what? They're not gone forever, they're just in Alola or Pokemon Home or whatever.

Or what, does it not really matter? Are you just being difficult because oooooh noooooo something that used to be in the games is not in the game? Oooooh noooo it's something to latch onto to exert my hatred and disdain for this series? Or fucking fuck, maybe you'll stop being so fucking butthurt the moment you learn which pokemon are in the Galardex? Is that it? You're just upset because there's a fucking chance your own favorites aren't going to be available anymore? A world where Salamence and Charizard aren't available is not worth living in? THEN FUCK YOU, YOU SHOULDN'T EVEN BE HERE ANY-FUCKING-MORE. GO PLAY A GRITTY GRAY WAR SHOOTER AND GET PWNED BY A TEN YEAR OLD SCREECHING INSULTS INTO THE MIC.

How many more steps will it take before you're demanding a pokemon game set entirely in [insert region here] with just the original [insert region's pokedex here], or demanding the removal of any new pokemon for old favorites, or any other genwunner nonsense? Because really, that's what all the people I see using that goddamn stupid hashtag sound liek right now, a bunch of goddamn genwunners.

 

...damn, I made myself angrier as I typed, but I refuse to believe anything except that that needed to be said. Just gonna spoiler that...

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3 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Just fucking play the old games.

"Just play the old games" is honestly a terrible argument for a lot of things.

8 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

So what if you can't transfer years of memories to this new game, or you can't catch em all if they can't be transfered in

8 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Please tell me what the hell is so precious about having your pokemon from older games be in Galar? It's not like I'm not being unaffected either, I have so many pokemon I dumped so many hours breeding that'll just be wasted once the new competitive scene is established. I have plenty of my older pokemon who I have memories of using on my original runs of my games, or Nuzlockes. Crap, I'm probably not going to be able to use my shiny Galvantula that I love so much. But so freaking what? They're not gone forever, they're just in Alola or Pokemon Home or whatever.

Because most people don't want to keep them in an outdated game. Because most people don't want to lock them away in a cloud box. Because most people wanted to see their Pokemon that they've been raising for decades come to life on the big screen. And yeah, the Stadium games exist but that's only for specific Gens. Also keep in mind Home is a paid service. No one wants to pay to not be able to transfer their Pokemon.

Gen 3 got backlash for the same reason. People were pissed that they couldn't transfer their Pokemon from Gen 2 to Gen 3. That's partially the reason why the Gen 1 remakes were made in the first place.

Let me pull up a quote from Masuda when he talked about Pokemon Bank a few years ago

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I guess this statement doesn't apply to Sword and Shield then. Literally the biggest theme in the series is the bonds you make with your Pokemon. Literally every Pokemon, regardless of how obscure it is, is someone's favorite. This whole thing about making bonds with your Pokemon falls apart when you lock them away in the past.

28 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

that'll just be wasted once the new competitive scene is established.

Lmao, as if i care about the competitive scene. Competitive Pokemon is actual garbage, barrier of entry is too high and it's never about skill. Just who has the best numbers.

29 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Or what, does it not really matter? Are you just being difficult because oooooh noooooo something that used to be in the games is not in the game? Oooooh noooo it's something to latch onto to exert my hatred and disdain for this series? Or fucking fuck, maybe you'll stop being so fucking butthurt the moment you learn which pokemon are in the Galardex? Is that it? You're just upset because there's a fucking chance your own favorites aren't going to be available anymore? A world where Salamence and Charizard aren't available is not worth living in? THEN FUCK YOU, YOU SHOULDN'T EVEN BE HERE ANY-FUCKING-MORE. GO PLAY A GRITTY GRAY WAR SHOOTER AND GET PWNED BY A TEN YEAR OLD SCREECHING INSULTS INTO THE MIC.

Ah, i see. You're a Pokemon apologist. Because from what i've gotten here, you will defend literally every decision Game Freak makes because they can do no wrong and if people even dare to criticize them, they are man-children.

 

32 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Because really, that's what all the people I see using that goddamn stupid hashtag sound liek right now, a bunch of goddamn genwunners.

Bruh, how the fuck are they genwunners when they've been showing boxes upon boxes of Pokemon they've collected in every Gen for the past decade? You complain about people "screeching" about not being able to transfer their Pokemon yet the only one doing the screeching here is you.

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It's not exactly as if there isn't a precedent for this sort of thing, by the way.

Notched-ear Pichu, and Cosplay Pikachu are the two prime examples that I can think of Neither of them can be transferred ahead, or even traded at all. Now, those are simply special Pokemon, and arguably don't do much regardless.

But, here are the biggest issues. The models for Pokemon as they are now, have, for the most part, been in use since 2012, a la PokeDex 3D Pro on the 3DS. They've literally been using the same models for over half a decade. They essentially made the models future-proof for some time, seeing as there are high-quality models within SM/USUM that are simply downgraded in quality to match the 3DS (a practice which is quite common amongst a lot of games). Not to mention, every single Pokemon from the original 151 to 809 have been given various idle cycles, walking and running cycles, etcetera. To have all that work ready to be used, and then simply ignore it, is downright lazy.

Let's add further to this. Pokemon Bank, and Pokemon Home, as mentioned above. Why bother with such a service in the first place, if you do not have any intention of actually allowing people to bring their Pokemon forward? What happened to that whole stint about being able to keep your Pokemon along to allow, say, your children or even grandchildren to play? It's silly, but it was still a nice proposition. It's the same kind of thing behind various mementos passed down in families, like say a ring, or even a family pet (at least, a rather long-lived one such as various species of turtles).

Let's go back to the models. Masuda mentioned that the 'quality' animations are part of what is holding all of those Pokemon back. Let's be frank. They look nice, but they hardly actually do much animation. Take a look at stuff like X and Y through even footage of Sword and Shield. A lot of the animations are simply reused between them. And I don't mean the actual effect animation of the attack. I mean the Pokemon itself. Double-kick, for example, the Pokemon literally hops for a frame in its idle animation and the attack plays out. Compare to, say, Pokemon Stadium from around twenty years ago. Double Kick actually had the Pokemon do a kick of its own. Now, I will grant that, even up through Colosseum, XD, and Pokemon Battle Revolution, you didn't have even half of the sheer number of Pokemon that are now available, so it's a bit silly to expect them to make animations on those levels, but of higher quality.

Also, one could argue dynamaxing a lot of models takes up more effort, but, for the most part, Dynamaxing is simply enlarging the model and adding some effects. It's just a bit silly, and a poor substitute for Mega Evolution and even Z-Moves, both of which will NOT appear in Sword and Shield.

And I realize that I'm bouncing between things at the moment, but let's bring up that he mentioned 'balance' as an issue. Quite frankly, a vast majority of Pokemon players are casual. Even if they dabble competitively, the truly serious about such a thing are quite minuscule by comparison. This is simply screwing over the larger fanbase that generally makes up a majority of your sales, which is a bad move all around.

I'll be a bit fair though, and throw Game Freak a bit of a bone. Pokemon itself is a in a vicious cycle, on a company far too under-staffed to continue as it is with the quality that fans deserve, and should expect of a series that's been going on for over twenty years, a series sitting at one of the highest seats of Nintendo. They're essentially expected to have, as of at least the past few generations, to have a pair of games to start out a new generation alongside a new season of the anime anime and a new wave of collectibles. Have two more games, either a remake, a sequel or a an alternate retelling, out the next year. Throw in spin-offs, (or, in the case of Let's Go, another remake pair) in the downtime between the two generations. That's at LEAST four games every three years. Honestly, Game Freak might want to consider doing a bit of outsourcing, even if it requires Nintendo's permission to do so, since I quite frankly doubt that Pokemon, at least, is going to be given a delay anytime soon. They need to have a burden alleviated.

Honestly, there are merits to arguments from both sides, but, a big part of what this can be summed up as...it's simply less content than we've already had previously, and not a very good reason for getting rid of it, especially when we've had a lot of said content for upwards of sixteen years, now.

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I'm just spoilering this if there are people who'd rather not read this nonsense.

Spoiler

 

55 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Ah, i see. You're a Pokemon apologist. Because from what i've gotten here, you will defend literally every decision Game Freak makes because they can do no wrong and if people even dare to criticize them, they are man-children. 

No, no I'm not. I've been critical of decisions they made in the past (not on this forum mind you), and there are aspects of the past games that I do not like and still question why they were added. They aren't perfect. If they were... no, sorry I'm not gonna bother entertaining the thought.

I don't think you know what rage does to people. Or maybe in my case, rage caused by people going to extreme armaments over something like this.
 

55 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Bruh, how the fuck are they genwunners when they've been showing boxes upon boxes of Pokemon they've collected in every Gen for the past decade?

Did I say they are genwunners? Hm, I don't recall saying they are genwunners. Either my memory is bad, or someone is twisting my words around.

55 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Lmao, as if i care about the competitive scene. Competitive Pokemon is actual garbage, barrier of entry is too high and it's never about skill. Just who has the best numbers.

I was reading the things you were saying abooout to here. And then I stopped taking you seriously. I only responded to the comments above because they are downright wrong facts. The bit about why people are mad about it I understand, and the playing old games bit... I'm not touching that. That's a completely different argument that I'm not touching til I need to.

Look, I want to understand why people are aggro about this mess. I've been on both sides of having those bonds with the pokemon and having "the highest numbers", and neither side is lesser than the other. You can have your... I dunno, Treecko from your childhood PKMN Ruby sent from region to region, memory after memory, all the way to Omega Ruby and receive that reward for having a PKMN R/S/E pokemon in OR/AS, and then even further to Alola. You can also have your perfectly bred Garchomp that has taken you through many battles, maybe even tourneys. Chances are, both parties won't be seeing their Sceptile or Garchomp in Sw/Sh.

Are the competitive players less than the... what would they be, the casual players...? Anyways, are they less or worse people just because they use their pokemon for a different reason? What is this, the anime?

 

One last thing I want out in the open: I'm neither upset or trying to defend this decision. I'm not a big fan of the thought that there's simply pokemon I won't be able to get just because I'm not allowed to bring them over from past games; like I said before, I'm being affected to, or at least I assume I'm not going to be able to bring any of the pokemon I'm attached to over to Sw/Sh. I don't like that they don't have plans to let players bring in non-Galar pokemon in future patches and updates, because that just means every time we learn who will be in the Galardex is another opportunity to learn which of my treasured mons won't be seeing the beauty of not-England. But I know better than to let that stop me from going out, buying Sword and Shield for me and my sister, and having a good time. If I got upset every time I wouldn't be able to do a thing, fuck I don't think I'd even still be playing video games now.

...also I now feel very hypocritical, because literally the one example I gave of a pokemon I am personally attached to, my Galvantula, I just assumed wouldn't be in Sw/Sh... but it turns out it will be, so... fuck.

Edited by Xenomata

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1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

bunch of goddamn genwunners.

Lmao. Genwunners will probably be happy since GF fucking loves Kanto and keeps appeasing to Nostalgia peeps.

Quote

I don't recall saying they are genwunners

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 or demanding the removal of any new pokemon for old favorites, or any other genwunner nonsense? Because really, that's what all the people I see using that goddamn stupid hashtag sound liek right now, a bunch of goddamn genwunners.

your own words

Edited by Shrimperor

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Things changed.  And when things change, it's bound to get some panties in a twist.  If a nonzero number of people are going to NOT pick up the game because of said change, that's their loss.

Now can i go back to being sick with food poisoning?

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Look, everybody. I can't defend this decision, but it's not like I now suddenly hate Pokémon. If I was developing a Pokémon game, and this was levied on me and the team, I wouldn't be happy either. But I'd go with it anyways, so that the game's quality isn't compromised.

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This sort of change will not impact my decision to buy the game. I don't see a boycott of such an obviously successful upcoming game having any tangible impact. However, people on the internet making a stink about this change is the right call. And you better say your piece now, because this is definitely a change they intend to make for all games moving forward. Let them know that updates to a game that's already out is never wasted development, especially since model and animation work gets ported over to the next pokemon game. And ask why other nintendo games that are mere weeks from release are willing to do a 180 on a controversial decision. 

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16 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

This sort of change will not impact my decision to buy the game. I don't see a boycott of such an obviously successful upcoming game having any tangible impact. However, people on the internet making a stink about this change is the right call. And you better say your piece now, because this is definitely a change they intend to make for all games moving forward. Let them know that updates to a game that's already out is never wasted development, especially since model and animation work gets ported over to the next pokemon game. And ask why other nintendo games that are mere weeks from release are willing to do a 180 on a controversial decision. 

See? I know these changes can't be made immediately, but it's nothing to be ashamed of. For a 3rd party's example, even Atlus was willing to remove the transphobic nonsense from Catherine Full Body after all the backlash.

Edited by Perkilator

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I actually like keeping pokemon in their respective games so I don't care about this announcement

I wasn't surprised when it was announced though: it was inevitable they would have to do this eventually due to time constraints, laziness, money, etc

People are so assblasted though, honestly the way people are conducting themselves it's like the end of the fucking world LOL

Edited by Pixelman

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Honestly, I'm just happy Mega's seem to be officially gone. I never liked their inclusion. Z-Moves were always going to be one generation (as is Dynamaxing), so I'm fine with that.

On the actual Pokemon, I'm a little sad, but honestly I get it. I have my favs/team from every generation so I'm sure a few will be cut. But they have SO many Pokemon now. It was 100% bound to happen, so while I wasn't expecting it THIS generation, I get it.

Personally I'm more upset that they keep trying to have generational gimmicks instead of expanding/focusing on a lore. Alola forms were the most unique/makes sense new gimmick (imo) they introduced, because it felt like something that should have always been around (like different types of flowering Bulbasaur). 

Honestly I'm more shocked they're not just going to patch in the other Pokemon over time. I get they can't all be there for the release, but surely they could patch it in slowly. 

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14 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

your own words 

Oh nope, there it is.

15 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Because really, that's what all the people I see using that goddamn stupid hashtag sound like right now, a bunch of goddamn genwunners.

Really, I think there's a difference between being called something and sounding like one... you can say whatever you want, and someone is gonna say you sound like a homophobic nazi if you don't pick the right words...

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As one of those crazy people that enjoys catching them all, this has deflated my expectations for this game a lot. Catching them all has always been one of the big draws to the franchise for me, and even when you get to the transfer stage of things, trying to minimizing the number of transfers while still reaching a state where the dex is completable, the varied process of progress depending on the evolutionary stage being transferred, and the filling of holes necessary after the trading away of exotic pokemon that ends up occurring over time, each have their own joys to them. When I found the nation dex missing from Sun/Moon, it felt like the enjoyable postgame evaporated from it, and the lack of backwards compatibility in Gen 3 almost drove me away from the franchise entirely. Here is hoping they reverse this policy, or circumvent it like 3rd gen by introducing compatibility with future remakes/games to fill the gaps.

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I put on my businessman hat to see the value in updating the game to have more pokemon. Imagine ten new pokemon get added to the national dex each month. But in order to collect them, you need to participate in these raids unless you've got copies waiting to break free from Pokemon HOME. And what if you're friend misses a pokemon from that month? Now they need your help in breeding that pokemon so they can add it to their collection. All of these activities require Nintendo Switch Online and further encourage player to player interaction. Or at the very least encourage the really die hard players to transfer their existing "living pokedex" to Pokemon HOME, which they are not inclined to do since the process is irreversable and those pokemon are trapped until a game is released that includes them. Furthermore, any development time spent updating these old pokemon gets paid forward toward the next Pokemon game since we're smart and just reuse models and animation work. By updating Sword and Shield we're in "soft development" for the next game. That next game being...Ultra Sword and Ultra Shield. Aha, now I've got Game Freak's attention.

Fixing the issue in Sword and Shield doesn't just sound like an ethical issue, it sounds like a money-making opportunity to me. $$$

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My favorite part of this whole discourse is people acting like the Pokemon not in the Galardex don't exist anymore and are boycotting the game long before it's released. It sucks, yeah, but it isn't the worst thing to happen.

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...Yeah, boycotting and all that is just going too far. I highly doubt GameFreak is just going to pretend Pokemon not in the Galar dex don't exist anymore. That's just dumb. I'm still holding out some hope that they gradually update the game to allow non-Galar dex Pokemon, even if they have to do it little by little like how Niantic updates GO with Pokemon. Though obviously GameFreak would do it at a faster pace.

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I just find it kind of silly myself personally that they're not in there at all, given that all of the models are more or less ready? They've been using the same models since like, 2012. It's just...a bit silly. Plus, that Dynamaxing thing really is just a poor substitute for Mega Evolution and Z-Moves.

I'll get it, but I don't think I'll be playing it in such a hardcore fashion as I did with previous games.

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10 hours ago, Emeraldfox said:

My favorite part of this whole discourse is people acting like the Pokemon not in the Galardex don't exist anymore and are boycotting the game long before it's released. It sucks, yeah, but it isn't the worst thing to happen.

Well, they basically don’t until GF decides that they do. Especially if people end up transferring them to Home where if the pokemon doesn’t exist in Galar then they’re just stuck in there because now you can’t transfer them back to older gens either.

Also, what the hell has been worse than thanos snapping pokemon out of a game? The only comparable thing I can think of is when RS did this but at least all the pokemon where still programmed in and all pokemon where eventually made legally obtainable with FRLG.

Edit: oh and at least the reason RS couldn’t allow transfers was due to technological restraints at the time. Sword and Shield is simply because GF is too lazy to do it.

8 hours ago, Anacybele said:

...Yeah, boycotting and all that is just going too far. I highly doubt GameFreak is just going to pretend Pokemon not in the Galar dex don't exist anymore. That's just dumb. I'm still holding out some hope that they gradually update the game to allow non-Galar dex Pokemon, even if they have to do it little by little like how Niantic updates GO with Pokemon. Though obviously GameFreak would do it at a faster pace.

I don’t see how boycotting is “too far” If people dislike the changes to the games and developers aren’t willing to remedy that then the only course left to take is to simply not buy their products. Blind consumerism achieves nothing.

Also, seeing as how X and Y didn’t get any patches for the content that was introduced in ORAS and the same thing happening again with SUMO and USUM, I doubt GF even knows what patches are or that they would be willing to patch so much more now when they couldn’t even be bothered to do it before when they only would have needed to patch less than ten new pokemon/forms. They even said that they have no plans to include all pokemon at a later date.

Edited by NegativeExponents-

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2 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I don’t see how boycotting is “too far” If people dislike the changes to the games and developers aren’t willing to remedy that then the only course left to take is to simply not buy their products. Blind consumerism achieves nothing.

They're boycotting all because of ONE change though, and a change that doesn't affect gameplay or plot. It only affects an optional thing. Completing a Pokedex, National or not, was always optional.

If there were more questionable changes/decisions, then I'd say they have every right to choose not to get the game.

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